Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:41:05 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

>SnoMan wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:15:36 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 'All' the old Jeep engines 'I' personally have seen (and read about
>>> 'many') will 'NOT' run on Bosch platinum plugs.
>>>
>>> They foul up almost immediately.
>>>
>>> I would change those before doing anything else and put proper Champion
>>> truck plugs back into it.
>>
>> Where do you get this BS at?????
>
>'I' actually have worked on Jeep engines and 'fixed' a whole bunch with
>fouling Bosch plugs.
>
>Lots of folks get suckered by the hype and change out the Champion plugs.
>
>If you Google this group, you will find the the older Jeep engines will
>'not' run on Bosch plugs, period.
>
>It is well documented and a very common cause of fouling plugs.
>
>It is also a very common topic on other groups that deal with American
>engines.
>
>Bosch might have the heat ranges totally screwed in their book for Jeep
>engines, who knows, but they don't work.

Gotta agree with you here, Mike. I've fixed many a misfire by
ditching the Bosch plugs. Not just in Jeeps, either, my '61 F-100
didn't like them, and neither did my bud's Harley.
--
Old Crow "Yol Bolsun!"
'82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl"
'95 YJ Rio Grande
BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:41:05 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

>SnoMan wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:15:36 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 'All' the old Jeep engines 'I' personally have seen (and read about
>>> 'many') will 'NOT' run on Bosch platinum plugs.
>>>
>>> They foul up almost immediately.
>>>
>>> I would change those before doing anything else and put proper Champion
>>> truck plugs back into it.
>>
>> Where do you get this BS at?????
>
>'I' actually have worked on Jeep engines and 'fixed' a whole bunch with
>fouling Bosch plugs.
>
>Lots of folks get suckered by the hype and change out the Champion plugs.
>
>If you Google this group, you will find the the older Jeep engines will
>'not' run on Bosch plugs, period.
>
>It is well documented and a very common cause of fouling plugs.
>
>It is also a very common topic on other groups that deal with American
>engines.
>
>Bosch might have the heat ranges totally screwed in their book for Jeep
>engines, who knows, but they don't work.

Gotta agree with you here, Mike. I've fixed many a misfire by
ditching the Bosch plugs. Not just in Jeeps, either, my '61 F-100
didn't like them, and neither did my bud's Harley.
--
Old Crow "Yol Bolsun!"
'82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl"
'95 YJ Rio Grande
BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:41:05 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

>SnoMan wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:15:36 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 'All' the old Jeep engines 'I' personally have seen (and read about
>>> 'many') will 'NOT' run on Bosch platinum plugs.
>>>
>>> They foul up almost immediately.
>>>
>>> I would change those before doing anything else and put proper Champion
>>> truck plugs back into it.
>>
>> Where do you get this BS at?????
>
>'I' actually have worked on Jeep engines and 'fixed' a whole bunch with
>fouling Bosch plugs.
>
>Lots of folks get suckered by the hype and change out the Champion plugs.
>
>If you Google this group, you will find the the older Jeep engines will
>'not' run on Bosch plugs, period.
>
>It is well documented and a very common cause of fouling plugs.
>
>It is also a very common topic on other groups that deal with American
>engines.
>
>Bosch might have the heat ranges totally screwed in their book for Jeep
>engines, who knows, but they don't work.

Gotta agree with you here, Mike. I've fixed many a misfire by
ditching the Bosch plugs. Not just in Jeeps, either, my '61 F-100
didn't like them, and neither did my bud's Harley.
--
Old Crow "Yol Bolsun!"
'82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl"
'95 YJ Rio Grande
BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

Oh oh....

You have low vacuum too right?

I don't know what you are describing as the 'oil pump' gear?

I am under the impression the 'distributor' drive gear that sits on the
camshaft end 'must' be exact or your valve timing will not match the
crank timing and no amount of fiddling with the distributor can 'fix' this.

This will give low compression, low vacuum and kill the top end power.

If the whole thing turned including the chain and bottom gear, then you
can reclock the distributor using a timing light.

Setting up timing chains to their gears is 'not' forgiving, it must be
exactly right. There are stamped dots on the gears. These dots must
line up exact (pointing at each other) with the chain tight on the right
hand side of the engine. (looking from the front, the left side)

To double check this, the stamped dot on the top gear must be turned to
the 3:00 position, then you count the links downward to the dot on the
bottom sprocket. There 'must' be 20 link 'pins' between the dots.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)


matthew.nye@gmail.com wrote:
> I have another question if anyone is familiar with AMC engines. If
> the distributor & oil pump gears were removed at the same time, does
> it matter which way they go back in? I assume you can only be 180
> degrees off, but the oil pump drive gear has turned relative to where
> it was when the distributor was removed, which in turn means that the
> distributor's actual drive gear will be in a different spot from when
> it was removed (if that makes any sense). Does this matter, or is
> irrelevant other than deciding the initial position of the distributor
> & cap? I assume that it wont matter, & can just be corrected by
> moving the distributor whichever way is required to get the timing
> back on track after the distributor is dropped back in, but it was one
> more thing that I remember doing after I had my symptoms show up,
> which may have been present merely from the bad vacuum advance. I'm
> just afraid I may have caused more problems by doing this.
>
> I ordered a new carb & will pick up some new plugs to rule that out
> hopefully tomorrow. My timing light is just a basic light with no
> dials & I don't have access to anything else unfortunately. It's very
> hard to see the mark on the balancer after I get about 25 degrees
> advance with my current light. I think I may take a stab at looking
> to the timing chain too if the new carb & plugs don't make a
> difference unless you guys definitely do not think it's the chain. If
> the answer to my previous question about the distributor & oil pump
> drive gears is yes, how would I go about putting it back in
> correctly? I assume I put the engine at TDC on the compression stroke
> for cylinder 1, then make sure the cam & crank sprocket indicators
> line up vertically, but is there any specific way the distributor will
> need to go in relative to the oil pump drive gear or the cam shaft?
> It seems as if there should be some kind of line or marking on the
> distributor telling you which way it needs to be dropped in if that's
> the case.
>
> Thanks again for everyones help, it's greatly appreciated.
>
> -Matt
>

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

Oh oh....

You have low vacuum too right?

I don't know what you are describing as the 'oil pump' gear?

I am under the impression the 'distributor' drive gear that sits on the
camshaft end 'must' be exact or your valve timing will not match the
crank timing and no amount of fiddling with the distributor can 'fix' this.

This will give low compression, low vacuum and kill the top end power.

If the whole thing turned including the chain and bottom gear, then you
can reclock the distributor using a timing light.

Setting up timing chains to their gears is 'not' forgiving, it must be
exactly right. There are stamped dots on the gears. These dots must
line up exact (pointing at each other) with the chain tight on the right
hand side of the engine. (looking from the front, the left side)

To double check this, the stamped dot on the top gear must be turned to
the 3:00 position, then you count the links downward to the dot on the
bottom sprocket. There 'must' be 20 link 'pins' between the dots.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)


matthew.nye@gmail.com wrote:
> I have another question if anyone is familiar with AMC engines. If
> the distributor & oil pump gears were removed at the same time, does
> it matter which way they go back in? I assume you can only be 180
> degrees off, but the oil pump drive gear has turned relative to where
> it was when the distributor was removed, which in turn means that the
> distributor's actual drive gear will be in a different spot from when
> it was removed (if that makes any sense). Does this matter, or is
> irrelevant other than deciding the initial position of the distributor
> & cap? I assume that it wont matter, & can just be corrected by
> moving the distributor whichever way is required to get the timing
> back on track after the distributor is dropped back in, but it was one
> more thing that I remember doing after I had my symptoms show up,
> which may have been present merely from the bad vacuum advance. I'm
> just afraid I may have caused more problems by doing this.
>
> I ordered a new carb & will pick up some new plugs to rule that out
> hopefully tomorrow. My timing light is just a basic light with no
> dials & I don't have access to anything else unfortunately. It's very
> hard to see the mark on the balancer after I get about 25 degrees
> advance with my current light. I think I may take a stab at looking
> to the timing chain too if the new carb & plugs don't make a
> difference unless you guys definitely do not think it's the chain. If
> the answer to my previous question about the distributor & oil pump
> drive gears is yes, how would I go about putting it back in
> correctly? I assume I put the engine at TDC on the compression stroke
> for cylinder 1, then make sure the cam & crank sprocket indicators
> line up vertically, but is there any specific way the distributor will
> need to go in relative to the oil pump drive gear or the cam shaft?
> It seems as if there should be some kind of line or marking on the
> distributor telling you which way it needs to be dropped in if that's
> the case.
>
> Thanks again for everyones help, it's greatly appreciated.
>
> -Matt
>

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

Oh oh....

You have low vacuum too right?

I don't know what you are describing as the 'oil pump' gear?

I am under the impression the 'distributor' drive gear that sits on the
camshaft end 'must' be exact or your valve timing will not match the
crank timing and no amount of fiddling with the distributor can 'fix' this.

This will give low compression, low vacuum and kill the top end power.

If the whole thing turned including the chain and bottom gear, then you
can reclock the distributor using a timing light.

Setting up timing chains to their gears is 'not' forgiving, it must be
exactly right. There are stamped dots on the gears. These dots must
line up exact (pointing at each other) with the chain tight on the right
hand side of the engine. (looking from the front, the left side)

To double check this, the stamped dot on the top gear must be turned to
the 3:00 position, then you count the links downward to the dot on the
bottom sprocket. There 'must' be 20 link 'pins' between the dots.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)


matthew.nye@gmail.com wrote:
> I have another question if anyone is familiar with AMC engines. If
> the distributor & oil pump gears were removed at the same time, does
> it matter which way they go back in? I assume you can only be 180
> degrees off, but the oil pump drive gear has turned relative to where
> it was when the distributor was removed, which in turn means that the
> distributor's actual drive gear will be in a different spot from when
> it was removed (if that makes any sense). Does this matter, or is
> irrelevant other than deciding the initial position of the distributor
> & cap? I assume that it wont matter, & can just be corrected by
> moving the distributor whichever way is required to get the timing
> back on track after the distributor is dropped back in, but it was one
> more thing that I remember doing after I had my symptoms show up,
> which may have been present merely from the bad vacuum advance. I'm
> just afraid I may have caused more problems by doing this.
>
> I ordered a new carb & will pick up some new plugs to rule that out
> hopefully tomorrow. My timing light is just a basic light with no
> dials & I don't have access to anything else unfortunately. It's very
> hard to see the mark on the balancer after I get about 25 degrees
> advance with my current light. I think I may take a stab at looking
> to the timing chain too if the new carb & plugs don't make a
> difference unless you guys definitely do not think it's the chain. If
> the answer to my previous question about the distributor & oil pump
> drive gears is yes, how would I go about putting it back in
> correctly? I assume I put the engine at TDC on the compression stroke
> for cylinder 1, then make sure the cam & crank sprocket indicators
> line up vertically, but is there any specific way the distributor will
> need to go in relative to the oil pump drive gear or the cam shaft?
> It seems as if there should be some kind of line or marking on the
> distributor telling you which way it needs to be dropped in if that's
> the case.
>
> Thanks again for everyones help, it's greatly appreciated.
>
> -Matt
>

Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

Oh oh....

You have low vacuum too right?

I don't know what you are describing as the 'oil pump' gear?

I am under the impression the 'distributor' drive gear that sits on the
camshaft end 'must' be exact or your valve timing will not match the
crank timing and no amount of fiddling with the distributor can 'fix' this.

This will give low compression, low vacuum and kill the top end power.

If the whole thing turned including the chain and bottom gear, then you
can reclock the distributor using a timing light.

Setting up timing chains to their gears is 'not' forgiving, it must be
exactly right. There are stamped dots on the gears. These dots must
line up exact (pointing at each other) with the chain tight on the right
hand side of the engine. (looking from the front, the left side)

To double check this, the stamped dot on the top gear must be turned to
the 3:00 position, then you count the links downward to the dot on the
bottom sprocket. There 'must' be 20 link 'pins' between the dots.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)


matthew.nye@gmail.com wrote:
> I have another question if anyone is familiar with AMC engines. If
> the distributor & oil pump gears were removed at the same time, does
> it matter which way they go back in? I assume you can only be 180
> degrees off, but the oil pump drive gear has turned relative to where
> it was when the distributor was removed, which in turn means that the
> distributor's actual drive gear will be in a different spot from when
> it was removed (if that makes any sense). Does this matter, or is
> irrelevant other than deciding the initial position of the distributor
> & cap? I assume that it wont matter, & can just be corrected by
> moving the distributor whichever way is required to get the timing
> back on track after the distributor is dropped back in, but it was one
> more thing that I remember doing after I had my symptoms show up,
> which may have been present merely from the bad vacuum advance. I'm
> just afraid I may have caused more problems by doing this.
>
> I ordered a new carb & will pick up some new plugs to rule that out
> hopefully tomorrow. My timing light is just a basic light with no
> dials & I don't have access to anything else unfortunately. It's very
> hard to see the mark on the balancer after I get about 25 degrees
> advance with my current light. I think I may take a stab at looking
> to the timing chain too if the new carb & plugs don't make a
> difference unless you guys definitely do not think it's the chain. If
> the answer to my previous question about the distributor & oil pump
> drive gears is yes, how would I go about putting it back in
> correctly? I assume I put the engine at TDC on the compression stroke
> for cylinder 1, then make sure the cam & crank sprocket indicators
> line up vertically, but is there any specific way the distributor will
> need to go in relative to the oil pump drive gear or the cam shaft?
> It seems as if there should be some kind of line or marking on the
> distributor telling you which way it needs to be dropped in if that's
> the case.
>
> Thanks again for everyones help, it's greatly appreciated.
>
> -Matt
>

Re: Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

Tell you what you keep following MIke Trollmains tips here and he will
really have you chasing your tail ad draining your bank account. This
can be fixed with very little money if you do it right. You have too
much carb and too much fuel pressure and it is going over rich when
carb starts to get in its effective flow range. The plug issues are
only a result of this, not the cause but some like guy listed above
act like they know more than they really do. It is your nickle and
your timebut if it was mine it would be fixed in very short order
because I am 99% sure on what is wrong here as all the clues do add
up. (unlike your "helper" mentioned above here that is about 99% wrong
on this)

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:13:02 -0700, matthew.nye@gmail.com wrote:

>I have another question if anyone is familiar with AMC engines. If
>the distributor & oil pump gears were removed at the same time, does
>it matter which way they go back in? I assume you can only be 180
>degrees off, but the oil pump drive gear has turned relative to where
>it was when the distributor was removed, which in turn means that the
>distributor's actual drive gear will be in a different spot from when
>it was removed (if that makes any sense). Does this matter, or is
>irrelevant other than deciding the initial position of the distributor
>& cap? I assume that it wont matter, & can just be corrected by
>moving the distributor whichever way is required to get the timing
>back on track after the distributor is dropped back in, but it was one
>more thing that I remember doing after I had my symptoms show up,
>which may have been present merely from the bad vacuum advance. I'm
>just afraid I may have caused more problems by doing this.
>
>I ordered a new carb & will pick up some new plugs to rule that out
>hopefully tomorrow. My timing light is just a basic light with no
>dials & I don't have access to anything else unfortunately. It's very
>hard to see the mark on the balancer after I get about 25 degrees
>advance with my current light. I think I may take a stab at looking
>to the timing chain too if the new carb & plugs don't make a
>difference unless you guys definitely do not think it's the chain. If
>the answer to my previous question about the distributor & oil pump
>drive gears is yes, how would I go about putting it back in
>correctly? I assume I put the engine at TDC on the compression stroke
>for cylinder 1, then make sure the cam & crank sprocket indicators
>line up vertically, but is there any specific way the distributor will
>need to go in relative to the oil pump drive gear or the cam shaft?
>It seems as if there should be some kind of line or marking on the
>distributor telling you which way it needs to be dropped in if that's
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Re: Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

Tell you what you keep following MIke Trollmains tips here and he will
really have you chasing your tail ad draining your bank account. This
can be fixed with very little money if you do it right. You have too
much carb and too much fuel pressure and it is going over rich when
carb starts to get in its effective flow range. The plug issues are
only a result of this, not the cause but some like guy listed above
act like they know more than they really do. It is your nickle and
your timebut if it was mine it would be fixed in very short order
because I am 99% sure on what is wrong here as all the clues do add
up. (unlike your "helper" mentioned above here that is about 99% wrong
on this)

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:13:02 -0700, matthew.nye@gmail.com wrote:

>I have another question if anyone is familiar with AMC engines. If
>the distributor & oil pump gears were removed at the same time, does
>it matter which way they go back in? I assume you can only be 180
>degrees off, but the oil pump drive gear has turned relative to where
>it was when the distributor was removed, which in turn means that the
>distributor's actual drive gear will be in a different spot from when
>it was removed (if that makes any sense). Does this matter, or is
>irrelevant other than deciding the initial position of the distributor
>& cap? I assume that it wont matter, & can just be corrected by
>moving the distributor whichever way is required to get the timing
>back on track after the distributor is dropped back in, but it was one
>more thing that I remember doing after I had my symptoms show up,
>which may have been present merely from the bad vacuum advance. I'm
>just afraid I may have caused more problems by doing this.
>
>I ordered a new carb & will pick up some new plugs to rule that out
>hopefully tomorrow. My timing light is just a basic light with no
>dials & I don't have access to anything else unfortunately. It's very
>hard to see the mark on the balancer after I get about 25 degrees
>advance with my current light. I think I may take a stab at looking
>to the timing chain too if the new carb & plugs don't make a
>difference unless you guys definitely do not think it's the chain. If
>the answer to my previous question about the distributor & oil pump
>drive gears is yes, how would I go about putting it back in
>correctly? I assume I put the engine at TDC on the compression stroke
>for cylinder 1, then make sure the cam & crank sprocket indicators
>line up vertically, but is there any specific way the distributor will
>need to go in relative to the oil pump drive gear or the cam shaft?
>It seems as if there should be some kind of line or marking on the
>distributor telling you which way it needs to be dropped in if that's
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Re: Re: CJ5 misfires at high RPM/hard acceleration
 

Tell you what you keep following MIke Trollmains tips here and he will
really have you chasing your tail ad draining your bank account. This
can be fixed with very little money if you do it right. You have too
much carb and too much fuel pressure and it is going over rich when
carb starts to get in its effective flow range. The plug issues are
only a result of this, not the cause but some like guy listed above
act like they know more than they really do. It is your nickle and
your timebut if it was mine it would be fixed in very short order
because I am 99% sure on what is wrong here as all the clues do add
up. (unlike your "helper" mentioned above here that is about 99% wrong
on this)

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:13:02 -0700, matthew.nye@gmail.com wrote:

>I have another question if anyone is familiar with AMC engines. If
>the distributor & oil pump gears were removed at the same time, does
>it matter which way they go back in? I assume you can only be 180
>degrees off, but the oil pump drive gear has turned relative to where
>it was when the distributor was removed, which in turn means that the
>distributor's actual drive gear will be in a different spot from when
>it was removed (if that makes any sense). Does this matter, or is
>irrelevant other than deciding the initial position of the distributor
>& cap? I assume that it wont matter, & can just be corrected by
>moving the distributor whichever way is required to get the timing
>back on track after the distributor is dropped back in, but it was one
>more thing that I remember doing after I had my symptoms show up,
>which may have been present merely from the bad vacuum advance. I'm
>just afraid I may have caused more problems by doing this.
>
>I ordered a new carb & will pick up some new plugs to rule that out
>hopefully tomorrow. My timing light is just a basic light with no
>dials & I don't have access to anything else unfortunately. It's very
>hard to see the mark on the balancer after I get about 25 degrees
>advance with my current light. I think I may take a stab at looking
>to the timing chain too if the new carb & plugs don't make a
>difference unless you guys definitely do not think it's the chain. If
>the answer to my previous question about the distributor & oil pump
>drive gears is yes, how would I go about putting it back in
>correctly? I assume I put the engine at TDC on the compression stroke
>for cylinder 1, then make sure the cam & crank sprocket indicators
>line up vertically, but is there any specific way the distributor will
>need to go in relative to the oil pump drive gear or the cam shaft?
>It seems as if there should be some kind of line or marking on the
>distributor telling you which way it needs to be dropped in if that's
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com