Chrysler radio locked...help
#171
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: National Service
Funny you mention it, Germany has such a program for its citizens, as do
many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God forbid,
the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
their country.
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> Billy Ray proclaimed:
>
>> Ya know Bill........
>>
>> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
>> service for all young people.
>
> If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
>>
>> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
>> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
>> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
>
> To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> exclusions period. Serve. Period.
>
> I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
>>
>> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
>> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
>> public facilities staffed.
>
> Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> were just CCC projects at one time.
>>
>> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see the
>> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
>>
>> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
>> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
>> Texas.
>
> Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
>>
>> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
>> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
>
> Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
>
>
>>
>> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps a
>> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
>> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
>
> Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> lessons learned.
many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God forbid,
the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
their country.
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> Billy Ray proclaimed:
>
>> Ya know Bill........
>>
>> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
>> service for all young people.
>
> If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
>>
>> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
>> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
>> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
>
> To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> exclusions period. Serve. Period.
>
> I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
>>
>> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
>> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
>> public facilities staffed.
>
> Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> were just CCC projects at one time.
>>
>> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see the
>> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
>>
>> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
>> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
>> Texas.
>
> Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
>>
>> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
>> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
>
> Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
>
>
>>
>> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps a
>> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
>> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
>
> Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> lessons learned.
#172
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: National Service
Funny you mention it, Germany has such a program for its citizens, as do
many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God forbid,
the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
their country.
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> Billy Ray proclaimed:
>
>> Ya know Bill........
>>
>> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
>> service for all young people.
>
> If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
>>
>> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
>> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
>> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
>
> To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> exclusions period. Serve. Period.
>
> I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
>>
>> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
>> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
>> public facilities staffed.
>
> Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> were just CCC projects at one time.
>>
>> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see the
>> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
>>
>> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
>> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
>> Texas.
>
> Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
>>
>> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
>> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
>
> Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
>
>
>>
>> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps a
>> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
>> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
>
> Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> lessons learned.
many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God forbid,
the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
their country.
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> Billy Ray proclaimed:
>
>> Ya know Bill........
>>
>> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
>> service for all young people.
>
> If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
>>
>> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
>> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
>> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
>
> To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> exclusions period. Serve. Period.
>
> I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
>>
>> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
>> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
>> public facilities staffed.
>
> Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> were just CCC projects at one time.
>>
>> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see the
>> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
>>
>> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
>> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
>> Texas.
>
> Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
>>
>> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
>> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
>
> Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
>
>
>>
>> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps a
>> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
>> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
>
> Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> lessons learned.
#173
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: National Service
We already have such a program. It's called "income tax". And you don't
have to be rich to find loopholes, just not stupid. I am not so sure that
Congress and Big Business don't pay their share, either. Somebody has to
run this mess, and it doesn't look like such a fun job to me. Even if you
live off the public dole or a trust fund your whole life, you still have to
put up with the rest of the losers who live in this sad excuse for a
country, and that should be enough. Everybody has to pay, so stop griping
about how somebody else seems to have a better seat.
I don't think that it is so much a question of "I got mine", either. To me,
it's more like being asked to do things, that don't need to be done. Like
that whole Vietnam or Iraq thing. It just looks like busy-work to me. Or
sending a check to the Department of the Treasury. They already have lots
of my money. What did they do with it all? Maybe if you allowed Sierra
Club workshops and protest marches, volunteer efforts for agencies that do
not take government money, or whole-hearted membership in subversive
organizations, I could be convinced.
Earle
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:z6-dnboeQP3VhabeRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> Funny you mention it, Germany has such a program for its citizens, as do
> many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
>
> Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
> mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
> there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God
forbid,
> the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
> their country.
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> > Billy Ray proclaimed:
> >
> >> Ya know Bill........
> >>
> >> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
> >> service for all young people.
> >
> > If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> > a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> > coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> > personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> > to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
> >>
> >> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
> >> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
> >> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
> >
> > To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> > dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> > Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> > to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> > like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> > trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> > Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> > have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> > two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> > do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> > the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> > daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> > exclusions period. Serve. Period.
> >
> > I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> > why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
> >>
> >> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
> >> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
> >> public facilities staffed.
> >
> > Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> > were just CCC projects at one time.
> >>
> >> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see
the
> >> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
> >>
> >> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
> >> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
> >> Texas.
> >
> > Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> > with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
> >>
> >> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
> >> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
> >
> > Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> > rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps
a
> >> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
> >> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
> >
> > Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> > lessons learned.
>
>
>
have to be rich to find loopholes, just not stupid. I am not so sure that
Congress and Big Business don't pay their share, either. Somebody has to
run this mess, and it doesn't look like such a fun job to me. Even if you
live off the public dole or a trust fund your whole life, you still have to
put up with the rest of the losers who live in this sad excuse for a
country, and that should be enough. Everybody has to pay, so stop griping
about how somebody else seems to have a better seat.
I don't think that it is so much a question of "I got mine", either. To me,
it's more like being asked to do things, that don't need to be done. Like
that whole Vietnam or Iraq thing. It just looks like busy-work to me. Or
sending a check to the Department of the Treasury. They already have lots
of my money. What did they do with it all? Maybe if you allowed Sierra
Club workshops and protest marches, volunteer efforts for agencies that do
not take government money, or whole-hearted membership in subversive
organizations, I could be convinced.
Earle
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:z6-dnboeQP3VhabeRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> Funny you mention it, Germany has such a program for its citizens, as do
> many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
>
> Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
> mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
> there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God
forbid,
> the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
> their country.
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> > Billy Ray proclaimed:
> >
> >> Ya know Bill........
> >>
> >> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
> >> service for all young people.
> >
> > If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> > a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> > coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> > personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> > to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
> >>
> >> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
> >> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
> >> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
> >
> > To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> > dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> > Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> > to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> > like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> > trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> > Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> > have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> > two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> > do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> > the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> > daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> > exclusions period. Serve. Period.
> >
> > I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> > why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
> >>
> >> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
> >> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
> >> public facilities staffed.
> >
> > Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> > were just CCC projects at one time.
> >>
> >> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see
the
> >> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
> >>
> >> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
> >> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
> >> Texas.
> >
> > Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> > with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
> >>
> >> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
> >> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
> >
> > Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> > rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps
a
> >> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
> >> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
> >
> > Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> > lessons learned.
>
>
>
#174
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: National Service
We already have such a program. It's called "income tax". And you don't
have to be rich to find loopholes, just not stupid. I am not so sure that
Congress and Big Business don't pay their share, either. Somebody has to
run this mess, and it doesn't look like such a fun job to me. Even if you
live off the public dole or a trust fund your whole life, you still have to
put up with the rest of the losers who live in this sad excuse for a
country, and that should be enough. Everybody has to pay, so stop griping
about how somebody else seems to have a better seat.
I don't think that it is so much a question of "I got mine", either. To me,
it's more like being asked to do things, that don't need to be done. Like
that whole Vietnam or Iraq thing. It just looks like busy-work to me. Or
sending a check to the Department of the Treasury. They already have lots
of my money. What did they do with it all? Maybe if you allowed Sierra
Club workshops and protest marches, volunteer efforts for agencies that do
not take government money, or whole-hearted membership in subversive
organizations, I could be convinced.
Earle
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:z6-dnboeQP3VhabeRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> Funny you mention it, Germany has such a program for its citizens, as do
> many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
>
> Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
> mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
> there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God
forbid,
> the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
> their country.
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> > Billy Ray proclaimed:
> >
> >> Ya know Bill........
> >>
> >> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
> >> service for all young people.
> >
> > If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> > a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> > coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> > personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> > to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
> >>
> >> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
> >> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
> >> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
> >
> > To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> > dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> > Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> > to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> > like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> > trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> > Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> > have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> > two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> > do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> > the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> > daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> > exclusions period. Serve. Period.
> >
> > I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> > why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
> >>
> >> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
> >> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
> >> public facilities staffed.
> >
> > Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> > were just CCC projects at one time.
> >>
> >> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see
the
> >> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
> >>
> >> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
> >> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
> >> Texas.
> >
> > Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> > with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
> >>
> >> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
> >> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
> >
> > Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> > rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps
a
> >> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
> >> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
> >
> > Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> > lessons learned.
>
>
>
have to be rich to find loopholes, just not stupid. I am not so sure that
Congress and Big Business don't pay their share, either. Somebody has to
run this mess, and it doesn't look like such a fun job to me. Even if you
live off the public dole or a trust fund your whole life, you still have to
put up with the rest of the losers who live in this sad excuse for a
country, and that should be enough. Everybody has to pay, so stop griping
about how somebody else seems to have a better seat.
I don't think that it is so much a question of "I got mine", either. To me,
it's more like being asked to do things, that don't need to be done. Like
that whole Vietnam or Iraq thing. It just looks like busy-work to me. Or
sending a check to the Department of the Treasury. They already have lots
of my money. What did they do with it all? Maybe if you allowed Sierra
Club workshops and protest marches, volunteer efforts for agencies that do
not take government money, or whole-hearted membership in subversive
organizations, I could be convinced.
Earle
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:z6-dnboeQP3VhabeRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> Funny you mention it, Germany has such a program for its citizens, as do
> many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
>
> Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
> mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
> there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God
forbid,
> the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
> their country.
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> > Billy Ray proclaimed:
> >
> >> Ya know Bill........
> >>
> >> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
> >> service for all young people.
> >
> > If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> > a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> > coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> > personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> > to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
> >>
> >> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
> >> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
> >> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
> >
> > To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> > dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> > Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> > to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> > like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> > trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> > Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> > have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> > two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> > do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> > the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> > daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> > exclusions period. Serve. Period.
> >
> > I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> > why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
> >>
> >> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
> >> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
> >> public facilities staffed.
> >
> > Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> > were just CCC projects at one time.
> >>
> >> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see
the
> >> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
> >>
> >> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
> >> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
> >> Texas.
> >
> > Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> > with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
> >>
> >> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
> >> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
> >
> > Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> > rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps
a
> >> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
> >> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
> >
> > Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> > lessons learned.
>
>
>
#175
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: National Service
We already have such a program. It's called "income tax". And you don't
have to be rich to find loopholes, just not stupid. I am not so sure that
Congress and Big Business don't pay their share, either. Somebody has to
run this mess, and it doesn't look like such a fun job to me. Even if you
live off the public dole or a trust fund your whole life, you still have to
put up with the rest of the losers who live in this sad excuse for a
country, and that should be enough. Everybody has to pay, so stop griping
about how somebody else seems to have a better seat.
I don't think that it is so much a question of "I got mine", either. To me,
it's more like being asked to do things, that don't need to be done. Like
that whole Vietnam or Iraq thing. It just looks like busy-work to me. Or
sending a check to the Department of the Treasury. They already have lots
of my money. What did they do with it all? Maybe if you allowed Sierra
Club workshops and protest marches, volunteer efforts for agencies that do
not take government money, or whole-hearted membership in subversive
organizations, I could be convinced.
Earle
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:z6-dnboeQP3VhabeRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> Funny you mention it, Germany has such a program for its citizens, as do
> many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
>
> Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
> mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
> there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God
forbid,
> the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
> their country.
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> > Billy Ray proclaimed:
> >
> >> Ya know Bill........
> >>
> >> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
> >> service for all young people.
> >
> > If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> > a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> > coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> > personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> > to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
> >>
> >> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
> >> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
> >> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
> >
> > To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> > dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> > Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> > to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> > like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> > trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> > Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> > have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> > two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> > do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> > the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> > daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> > exclusions period. Serve. Period.
> >
> > I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> > why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
> >>
> >> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
> >> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
> >> public facilities staffed.
> >
> > Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> > were just CCC projects at one time.
> >>
> >> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see
the
> >> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
> >>
> >> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
> >> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
> >> Texas.
> >
> > Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> > with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
> >>
> >> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
> >> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
> >
> > Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> > rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps
a
> >> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
> >> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
> >
> > Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> > lessons learned.
>
>
>
have to be rich to find loopholes, just not stupid. I am not so sure that
Congress and Big Business don't pay their share, either. Somebody has to
run this mess, and it doesn't look like such a fun job to me. Even if you
live off the public dole or a trust fund your whole life, you still have to
put up with the rest of the losers who live in this sad excuse for a
country, and that should be enough. Everybody has to pay, so stop griping
about how somebody else seems to have a better seat.
I don't think that it is so much a question of "I got mine", either. To me,
it's more like being asked to do things, that don't need to be done. Like
that whole Vietnam or Iraq thing. It just looks like busy-work to me. Or
sending a check to the Department of the Treasury. They already have lots
of my money. What did they do with it all? Maybe if you allowed Sierra
Club workshops and protest marches, volunteer efforts for agencies that do
not take government money, or whole-hearted membership in subversive
organizations, I could be convinced.
Earle
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:z6-dnboeQP3VhabeRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> Funny you mention it, Germany has such a program for its citizens, as do
> many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
>
> Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
> mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
> there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God
forbid,
> the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
> their country.
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> > Billy Ray proclaimed:
> >
> >> Ya know Bill........
> >>
> >> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
> >> service for all young people.
> >
> > If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> > a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> > coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> > personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> > to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
> >>
> >> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
> >> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
> >> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
> >
> > To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> > dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> > Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> > to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> > like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> > trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> > Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> > have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> > two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> > do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> > the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> > daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> > exclusions period. Serve. Period.
> >
> > I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> > why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
> >>
> >> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
> >> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
> >> public facilities staffed.
> >
> > Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> > were just CCC projects at one time.
> >>
> >> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see
the
> >> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
> >>
> >> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
> >> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
> >> Texas.
> >
> > Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> > with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
> >>
> >> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
> >> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
> >
> > Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> > rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps
a
> >> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
> >> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
> >
> > Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> > lessons learned.
>
>
>
#176
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: National Service
Earle, I started paying into Social Security in 1956. Just for grins,
I went back and plugged my SS payments into a program. I broke each
year's total into equal monthly payments then applied the T-Bill
intrest rate on a month-by-month basis. As Robert Heinlein observed
in on of his books, "Compound interest is the greatest thing aound".
Today, I would be drawing almost twice as much interest on that
account as I do Social Security retirement. I don't feel I'm feeding
at any public trough - in effect I'm still contributing half my SS
retirement back to the system. Then they make me pay income taxt on
what I do get...
Side note: a friend of mine refered to Hurricane Katrina as "the most
efficient urban renewal effort of the century". Being from NOLA, he
has an interesting perspective on some of our social programs - to say
the least.
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:53:11 UTC "Earle Horton" <nursebusters@msn.com>
wrote:
> We already have such a program. It's called "income tax". And you don't
> have to be rich to find loopholes, just not stupid. I am not so sure that
> Congress and Big Business don't pay their share, either. Somebody has to
> run this mess, and it doesn't look like such a fun job to me. Even if you
> live off the public dole or a trust fund your whole life, you still have to
> put up with the rest of the losers who live in this sad excuse for a
> country, and that should be enough. Everybody has to pay, so stop griping
> about how somebody else seems to have a better seat.
>
> I don't think that it is so much a question of "I got mine", either. To me,
> it's more like being asked to do things, that don't need to be done. Like
> that whole Vietnam or Iraq thing. It just looks like busy-work to me. Or
> sending a check to the Department of the Treasury. They already have lots
> of my money. What did they do with it all? Maybe if you allowed Sierra
> Club workshops and protest marches, volunteer efforts for agencies that do
> not take government money, or whole-hearted membership in subversive
> organizations, I could be convinced.
>
> Earle
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:z6-dnboeQP3VhabeRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> > Funny you mention it, Germany has such a program for its citizens, as do
> > many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
> >
> > Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
> > mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
> > there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God
> forbid,
> > the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
> > their country.
> >
> > "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> > > Billy Ray proclaimed:
> > >
> > >> Ya know Bill........
> > >>
> > >> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
> > >> service for all young people.
> > >
> > > If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> > > a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> > > coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> > > personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> > > to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
> > >>
> > >> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
> > >> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
> > >> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
> > >
> > > To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> > > dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> > > Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> > > to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> > > like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> > > trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> > > Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> > > have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> > > two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> > > do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> > > the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> > > daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> > > exclusions period. Serve. Period.
> > >
> > > I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> > > why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
> > >>
> > >> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
> > >> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
> > >> public facilities staffed.
> > >
> > > Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> > > were just CCC projects at one time.
> > >>
> > >> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see
> the
> > >> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
> > >>
> > >> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
> > >> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
> > >> Texas.
> > >
> > > Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> > > with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
> > >>
> > >> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
> > >> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
> > >
> > > Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> > > rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps
> a
> > >> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
> > >> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
> > >
> > > Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> > > lessons learned.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Will Honea
I went back and plugged my SS payments into a program. I broke each
year's total into equal monthly payments then applied the T-Bill
intrest rate on a month-by-month basis. As Robert Heinlein observed
in on of his books, "Compound interest is the greatest thing aound".
Today, I would be drawing almost twice as much interest on that
account as I do Social Security retirement. I don't feel I'm feeding
at any public trough - in effect I'm still contributing half my SS
retirement back to the system. Then they make me pay income taxt on
what I do get...
Side note: a friend of mine refered to Hurricane Katrina as "the most
efficient urban renewal effort of the century". Being from NOLA, he
has an interesting perspective on some of our social programs - to say
the least.
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:53:11 UTC "Earle Horton" <nursebusters@msn.com>
wrote:
> We already have such a program. It's called "income tax". And you don't
> have to be rich to find loopholes, just not stupid. I am not so sure that
> Congress and Big Business don't pay their share, either. Somebody has to
> run this mess, and it doesn't look like such a fun job to me. Even if you
> live off the public dole or a trust fund your whole life, you still have to
> put up with the rest of the losers who live in this sad excuse for a
> country, and that should be enough. Everybody has to pay, so stop griping
> about how somebody else seems to have a better seat.
>
> I don't think that it is so much a question of "I got mine", either. To me,
> it's more like being asked to do things, that don't need to be done. Like
> that whole Vietnam or Iraq thing. It just looks like busy-work to me. Or
> sending a check to the Department of the Treasury. They already have lots
> of my money. What did they do with it all? Maybe if you allowed Sierra
> Club workshops and protest marches, volunteer efforts for agencies that do
> not take government money, or whole-hearted membership in subversive
> organizations, I could be convinced.
>
> Earle
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:z6-dnboeQP3VhabeRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> > Funny you mention it, Germany has such a program for its citizens, as do
> > many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
> >
> > Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
> > mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
> > there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God
> forbid,
> > the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
> > their country.
> >
> > "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> > > Billy Ray proclaimed:
> > >
> > >> Ya know Bill........
> > >>
> > >> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
> > >> service for all young people.
> > >
> > > If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> > > a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> > > coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> > > personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> > > to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
> > >>
> > >> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
> > >> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
> > >> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
> > >
> > > To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> > > dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> > > Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> > > to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> > > like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> > > trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> > > Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> > > have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> > > two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> > > do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> > > the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> > > daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> > > exclusions period. Serve. Period.
> > >
> > > I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> > > why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
> > >>
> > >> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
> > >> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
> > >> public facilities staffed.
> > >
> > > Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> > > were just CCC projects at one time.
> > >>
> > >> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see
> the
> > >> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
> > >>
> > >> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
> > >> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
> > >> Texas.
> > >
> > > Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> > > with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
> > >>
> > >> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
> > >> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
> > >
> > > Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> > > rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps
> a
> > >> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
> > >> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
> > >
> > > Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> > > lessons learned.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Will Honea
#177
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: National Service
Earle, I started paying into Social Security in 1956. Just for grins,
I went back and plugged my SS payments into a program. I broke each
year's total into equal monthly payments then applied the T-Bill
intrest rate on a month-by-month basis. As Robert Heinlein observed
in on of his books, "Compound interest is the greatest thing aound".
Today, I would be drawing almost twice as much interest on that
account as I do Social Security retirement. I don't feel I'm feeding
at any public trough - in effect I'm still contributing half my SS
retirement back to the system. Then they make me pay income taxt on
what I do get...
Side note: a friend of mine refered to Hurricane Katrina as "the most
efficient urban renewal effort of the century". Being from NOLA, he
has an interesting perspective on some of our social programs - to say
the least.
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:53:11 UTC "Earle Horton" <nursebusters@msn.com>
wrote:
> We already have such a program. It's called "income tax". And you don't
> have to be rich to find loopholes, just not stupid. I am not so sure that
> Congress and Big Business don't pay their share, either. Somebody has to
> run this mess, and it doesn't look like such a fun job to me. Even if you
> live off the public dole or a trust fund your whole life, you still have to
> put up with the rest of the losers who live in this sad excuse for a
> country, and that should be enough. Everybody has to pay, so stop griping
> about how somebody else seems to have a better seat.
>
> I don't think that it is so much a question of "I got mine", either. To me,
> it's more like being asked to do things, that don't need to be done. Like
> that whole Vietnam or Iraq thing. It just looks like busy-work to me. Or
> sending a check to the Department of the Treasury. They already have lots
> of my money. What did they do with it all? Maybe if you allowed Sierra
> Club workshops and protest marches, volunteer efforts for agencies that do
> not take government money, or whole-hearted membership in subversive
> organizations, I could be convinced.
>
> Earle
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:z6-dnboeQP3VhabeRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> > Funny you mention it, Germany has such a program for its citizens, as do
> > many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
> >
> > Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
> > mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
> > there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God
> forbid,
> > the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
> > their country.
> >
> > "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> > > Billy Ray proclaimed:
> > >
> > >> Ya know Bill........
> > >>
> > >> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
> > >> service for all young people.
> > >
> > > If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> > > a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> > > coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> > > personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> > > to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
> > >>
> > >> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
> > >> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
> > >> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
> > >
> > > To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> > > dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> > > Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> > > to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> > > like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> > > trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> > > Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> > > have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> > > two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> > > do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> > > the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> > > daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> > > exclusions period. Serve. Period.
> > >
> > > I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> > > why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
> > >>
> > >> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
> > >> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
> > >> public facilities staffed.
> > >
> > > Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> > > were just CCC projects at one time.
> > >>
> > >> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see
> the
> > >> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
> > >>
> > >> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
> > >> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
> > >> Texas.
> > >
> > > Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> > > with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
> > >>
> > >> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
> > >> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
> > >
> > > Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> > > rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps
> a
> > >> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
> > >> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
> > >
> > > Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> > > lessons learned.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Will Honea
I went back and plugged my SS payments into a program. I broke each
year's total into equal monthly payments then applied the T-Bill
intrest rate on a month-by-month basis. As Robert Heinlein observed
in on of his books, "Compound interest is the greatest thing aound".
Today, I would be drawing almost twice as much interest on that
account as I do Social Security retirement. I don't feel I'm feeding
at any public trough - in effect I'm still contributing half my SS
retirement back to the system. Then they make me pay income taxt on
what I do get...
Side note: a friend of mine refered to Hurricane Katrina as "the most
efficient urban renewal effort of the century". Being from NOLA, he
has an interesting perspective on some of our social programs - to say
the least.
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:53:11 UTC "Earle Horton" <nursebusters@msn.com>
wrote:
> We already have such a program. It's called "income tax". And you don't
> have to be rich to find loopholes, just not stupid. I am not so sure that
> Congress and Big Business don't pay their share, either. Somebody has to
> run this mess, and it doesn't look like such a fun job to me. Even if you
> live off the public dole or a trust fund your whole life, you still have to
> put up with the rest of the losers who live in this sad excuse for a
> country, and that should be enough. Everybody has to pay, so stop griping
> about how somebody else seems to have a better seat.
>
> I don't think that it is so much a question of "I got mine", either. To me,
> it's more like being asked to do things, that don't need to be done. Like
> that whole Vietnam or Iraq thing. It just looks like busy-work to me. Or
> sending a check to the Department of the Treasury. They already have lots
> of my money. What did they do with it all? Maybe if you allowed Sierra
> Club workshops and protest marches, volunteer efforts for agencies that do
> not take government money, or whole-hearted membership in subversive
> organizations, I could be convinced.
>
> Earle
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:z6-dnboeQP3VhabeRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> > Funny you mention it, Germany has such a program for its citizens, as do
> > many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
> >
> > Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
> > mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
> > there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God
> forbid,
> > the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
> > their country.
> >
> > "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> > > Billy Ray proclaimed:
> > >
> > >> Ya know Bill........
> > >>
> > >> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
> > >> service for all young people.
> > >
> > > If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> > > a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> > > coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> > > personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> > > to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
> > >>
> > >> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
> > >> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
> > >> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
> > >
> > > To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> > > dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> > > Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> > > to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> > > like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> > > trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> > > Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> > > have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> > > two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> > > do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> > > the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> > > daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> > > exclusions period. Serve. Period.
> > >
> > > I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> > > why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
> > >>
> > >> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
> > >> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
> > >> public facilities staffed.
> > >
> > > Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> > > were just CCC projects at one time.
> > >>
> > >> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see
> the
> > >> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
> > >>
> > >> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
> > >> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
> > >> Texas.
> > >
> > > Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> > > with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
> > >>
> > >> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
> > >> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
> > >
> > > Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> > > rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps
> a
> > >> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
> > >> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
> > >
> > > Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> > > lessons learned.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Will Honea
#178
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: National Service
Earle, I started paying into Social Security in 1956. Just for grins,
I went back and plugged my SS payments into a program. I broke each
year's total into equal monthly payments then applied the T-Bill
intrest rate on a month-by-month basis. As Robert Heinlein observed
in on of his books, "Compound interest is the greatest thing aound".
Today, I would be drawing almost twice as much interest on that
account as I do Social Security retirement. I don't feel I'm feeding
at any public trough - in effect I'm still contributing half my SS
retirement back to the system. Then they make me pay income taxt on
what I do get...
Side note: a friend of mine refered to Hurricane Katrina as "the most
efficient urban renewal effort of the century". Being from NOLA, he
has an interesting perspective on some of our social programs - to say
the least.
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:53:11 UTC "Earle Horton" <nursebusters@msn.com>
wrote:
> We already have such a program. It's called "income tax". And you don't
> have to be rich to find loopholes, just not stupid. I am not so sure that
> Congress and Big Business don't pay their share, either. Somebody has to
> run this mess, and it doesn't look like such a fun job to me. Even if you
> live off the public dole or a trust fund your whole life, you still have to
> put up with the rest of the losers who live in this sad excuse for a
> country, and that should be enough. Everybody has to pay, so stop griping
> about how somebody else seems to have a better seat.
>
> I don't think that it is so much a question of "I got mine", either. To me,
> it's more like being asked to do things, that don't need to be done. Like
> that whole Vietnam or Iraq thing. It just looks like busy-work to me. Or
> sending a check to the Department of the Treasury. They already have lots
> of my money. What did they do with it all? Maybe if you allowed Sierra
> Club workshops and protest marches, volunteer efforts for agencies that do
> not take government money, or whole-hearted membership in subversive
> organizations, I could be convinced.
>
> Earle
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:z6-dnboeQP3VhabeRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> > Funny you mention it, Germany has such a program for its citizens, as do
> > many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
> >
> > Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
> > mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
> > there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God
> forbid,
> > the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
> > their country.
> >
> > "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> > > Billy Ray proclaimed:
> > >
> > >> Ya know Bill........
> > >>
> > >> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
> > >> service for all young people.
> > >
> > > If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> > > a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> > > coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> > > personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> > > to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
> > >>
> > >> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
> > >> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
> > >> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
> > >
> > > To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> > > dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> > > Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> > > to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> > > like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> > > trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> > > Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> > > have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> > > two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> > > do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> > > the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> > > daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> > > exclusions period. Serve. Period.
> > >
> > > I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> > > why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
> > >>
> > >> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
> > >> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
> > >> public facilities staffed.
> > >
> > > Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> > > were just CCC projects at one time.
> > >>
> > >> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see
> the
> > >> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
> > >>
> > >> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
> > >> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
> > >> Texas.
> > >
> > > Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> > > with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
> > >>
> > >> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
> > >> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
> > >
> > > Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> > > rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps
> a
> > >> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
> > >> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
> > >
> > > Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> > > lessons learned.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Will Honea
I went back and plugged my SS payments into a program. I broke each
year's total into equal monthly payments then applied the T-Bill
intrest rate on a month-by-month basis. As Robert Heinlein observed
in on of his books, "Compound interest is the greatest thing aound".
Today, I would be drawing almost twice as much interest on that
account as I do Social Security retirement. I don't feel I'm feeding
at any public trough - in effect I'm still contributing half my SS
retirement back to the system. Then they make me pay income taxt on
what I do get...
Side note: a friend of mine refered to Hurricane Katrina as "the most
efficient urban renewal effort of the century". Being from NOLA, he
has an interesting perspective on some of our social programs - to say
the least.
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:53:11 UTC "Earle Horton" <nursebusters@msn.com>
wrote:
> We already have such a program. It's called "income tax". And you don't
> have to be rich to find loopholes, just not stupid. I am not so sure that
> Congress and Big Business don't pay their share, either. Somebody has to
> run this mess, and it doesn't look like such a fun job to me. Even if you
> live off the public dole or a trust fund your whole life, you still have to
> put up with the rest of the losers who live in this sad excuse for a
> country, and that should be enough. Everybody has to pay, so stop griping
> about how somebody else seems to have a better seat.
>
> I don't think that it is so much a question of "I got mine", either. To me,
> it's more like being asked to do things, that don't need to be done. Like
> that whole Vietnam or Iraq thing. It just looks like busy-work to me. Or
> sending a check to the Department of the Treasury. They already have lots
> of my money. What did they do with it all? Maybe if you allowed Sierra
> Club workshops and protest marches, volunteer efforts for agencies that do
> not take government money, or whole-hearted membership in subversive
> organizations, I could be convinced.
>
> Earle
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:z6-dnboeQP3VhabeRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> > Funny you mention it, Germany has such a program for its citizens, as do
> > many other countries, I imagine. Not a particularly bad idea.
> >
> > Problem is, in this country there is such a sense of entitlement, "I got
> > mine," that something like this would be quite unpopular. And believe me,
> > there would be a way for the "rich boys" to loophole around it. God
> forbid,
> > the children of Congress members and Big Business lift a finger to help
> > their country.
> >
> > "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:RZudnZ_SdIJjj6beRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> > > Billy Ray proclaimed:
> > >
> > >> Ya know Bill........
> > >>
> > >> Perhaps it is well overdue to institute a period of required national
> > >> service for all young people.
> > >
> > > If it were mandatory, they could even plan for it. I know more than
> > > a few college counsellors that would prefer to have kids at least a
> > > coupla years more grown up before being inflicted on a campus. My
> > > personal opinion is that if you ain't willing to give a coupla years
> > > to your country, just possibly you don't deserve that country.
> > >>
> > >> Not that everyone needs to go into the military although perhaps all
> > >> should go through a boot camp experience. I certainly don't want some
> > >> dope smoking liberal big city boy watching my back.
> > >
> > > To me depends on how good an aim he is when stoned outta his mind. I
> > > dunno that it all would be military. Some of the programs like Peace
> > > Corpse, Civilian Conservation Corpse, etc. could be worthwhile places
> > > to have young kids serve their countries for a coupla years. Stuff
> > > like building projects in national parks, cleaning those parks, new
> > > trails in the parks would be good use. Or working with the Corps of
> > > Engineers building up some of the anti-flood measures the greenies
> > > have let detiorate for so many decades. You serve your country for
> > > two years with no choice, or three years with choice. In return, you
> > > do get a pay check, even some training that might be valuable, plus
> > > the most important lesson, which is learning to let go of mommie and
> > > daddie's bank accounts and stand on your own two feet. No rich boy
> > > exclusions period. Serve. Period.
> > >
> > > I suspect the programs would pay for themselves overnight, which is
> > > why I also suspect they haven't a prayer of being enacted.
> > >>
> > >> There are plenty of things that need done like in the model of the CCC
> > >> back in the 30's. Streets need to be cleaned, infrastructure repaired,
> > >> public facilities staffed.
> > >
> > > Oh hell yes. Some of the more famous features of our national parks
> > > were just CCC projects at one time.
> > >>
> > >> I think if everyone was forced (good choice of words) to actually see
> the
> > >> world as it really is then we would not have problems such as we have.
> > >>
> > >> Send the California liberals to teach kids in Appalachia how to read.
> > >> Send ghetto kids from De-troit to build water and sewer lines in West
> > >> Texas.
> > >
> > > Send kids to places they ain't been and let them learn to get along
> > > with folks they ain't met. Highly educational experience.
> > >>
> > >> Send nice mid-western kids to LA or San Francisco or New Your and scare
> > >> the heck of them (we call that shock-probation in Ohio)
> > >
> > > Or send San Francisco kids to the deep south as hair dressers to get
> > > rid of those dreaded beehive hairdos.
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Everyone could learn useful skills and if you have the ability perhaps
> a
> > >> trade. Everyone should know how to do the do-it-yourself tasks we
> > >> consider commonplace, the things any householder should know.
> > >
> > > Still think the weaning from mommy and daddy would be the most useful
> > > lessons learned.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Will Honea
#179
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: National Service
Hi Will,
Same year I started washing dishes and needed a card too. Nowadays
newborns have a Social Security number.
I remember gauging myself against the max Social Security withheld
and always making more, until I thought it would be fun to drive a truck
for ten cents an hour. Nowadays it's ninety thousand at six percent
each. Tell me we can't do a better job investing, just a bank account or
for sure T Bills would double every eight, ten years.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Will Honea wrote:
>
> Earle, I started paying into Social Security in 1956. Just for grins,
> I went back and plugged my SS payments into a program. I broke each
> year's total into equal monthly payments then applied the T-Bill
> intrest rate on a month-by-month basis. As Robert Heinlein observed
> in on of his books, "Compound interest is the greatest thing aound".
> Today, I would be drawing almost twice as much interest on that
> account as I do Social Security retirement. I don't feel I'm feeding
> at any public trough - in effect I'm still contributing half my SS
> retirement back to the system. Then they make me pay income taxt on
> what I do get...
>
> Side note: a friend of mine refered to Hurricane Katrina as "the most
> efficient urban renewal effort of the century". Being from NOLA, he
> has an interesting perspective on some of our social programs - to say
> the least.
> --
> Will Honea
Same year I started washing dishes and needed a card too. Nowadays
newborns have a Social Security number.
I remember gauging myself against the max Social Security withheld
and always making more, until I thought it would be fun to drive a truck
for ten cents an hour. Nowadays it's ninety thousand at six percent
each. Tell me we can't do a better job investing, just a bank account or
for sure T Bills would double every eight, ten years.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Will Honea wrote:
>
> Earle, I started paying into Social Security in 1956. Just for grins,
> I went back and plugged my SS payments into a program. I broke each
> year's total into equal monthly payments then applied the T-Bill
> intrest rate on a month-by-month basis. As Robert Heinlein observed
> in on of his books, "Compound interest is the greatest thing aound".
> Today, I would be drawing almost twice as much interest on that
> account as I do Social Security retirement. I don't feel I'm feeding
> at any public trough - in effect I'm still contributing half my SS
> retirement back to the system. Then they make me pay income taxt on
> what I do get...
>
> Side note: a friend of mine refered to Hurricane Katrina as "the most
> efficient urban renewal effort of the century". Being from NOLA, he
> has an interesting perspective on some of our social programs - to say
> the least.
> --
> Will Honea
#180
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: National Service
Hi Will,
Same year I started washing dishes and needed a card too. Nowadays
newborns have a Social Security number.
I remember gauging myself against the max Social Security withheld
and always making more, until I thought it would be fun to drive a truck
for ten cents an hour. Nowadays it's ninety thousand at six percent
each. Tell me we can't do a better job investing, just a bank account or
for sure T Bills would double every eight, ten years.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Will Honea wrote:
>
> Earle, I started paying into Social Security in 1956. Just for grins,
> I went back and plugged my SS payments into a program. I broke each
> year's total into equal monthly payments then applied the T-Bill
> intrest rate on a month-by-month basis. As Robert Heinlein observed
> in on of his books, "Compound interest is the greatest thing aound".
> Today, I would be drawing almost twice as much interest on that
> account as I do Social Security retirement. I don't feel I'm feeding
> at any public trough - in effect I'm still contributing half my SS
> retirement back to the system. Then they make me pay income taxt on
> what I do get...
>
> Side note: a friend of mine refered to Hurricane Katrina as "the most
> efficient urban renewal effort of the century". Being from NOLA, he
> has an interesting perspective on some of our social programs - to say
> the least.
> --
> Will Honea
Same year I started washing dishes and needed a card too. Nowadays
newborns have a Social Security number.
I remember gauging myself against the max Social Security withheld
and always making more, until I thought it would be fun to drive a truck
for ten cents an hour. Nowadays it's ninety thousand at six percent
each. Tell me we can't do a better job investing, just a bank account or
for sure T Bills would double every eight, ten years.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Will Honea wrote:
>
> Earle, I started paying into Social Security in 1956. Just for grins,
> I went back and plugged my SS payments into a program. I broke each
> year's total into equal monthly payments then applied the T-Bill
> intrest rate on a month-by-month basis. As Robert Heinlein observed
> in on of his books, "Compound interest is the greatest thing aound".
> Today, I would be drawing almost twice as much interest on that
> account as I do Social Security retirement. I don't feel I'm feeding
> at any public trough - in effect I'm still contributing half my SS
> retirement back to the system. Then they make me pay income taxt on
> what I do get...
>
> Side note: a friend of mine refered to Hurricane Katrina as "the most
> efficient urban renewal effort of the century". Being from NOLA, he
> has an interesting perspective on some of our social programs - to say
> the least.
> --
> Will Honea