KJ.Kate

"Clap Trap" <nowhere@the.net> wrote
-snipped-
: Even though I'll dis the libby every chance I get,

Now, I am not trying to start a flame war here bu I have just about had it
with this crap.

Why exactly IS that? Seems like a playground chant to me!.
"My Jeep's better than YOUR Jeep nyaah nyaah nyaah na!"

Bullwash.

The Liberty is a good vehicle. Just because there are things about it you
don't like, doesn't make it any less a Jeep. It is simply more civilized.

Do you think Liberty owners are going to run inside and cry because you have
made fun of their Jeeps?
Not Likely.
More likely than not you will see more and more Libertys doing things that
you think they can not or should not be doing because the vehicle doesn't
fit your particular criteria for what a "Jeep" should be.

Each vehicle has it's strengths and weaknesses. The Liberty isn't a stripped
down -
off the line rock crawling - extreme off road - bare bones vehicle but it's
a damn nice package on top of a comfortable, capable 4WD drive train. I'll
take the IFS
and a little top heavyness over a rattling, noisy, drafty, hard to heat,
hard to cool back breaking, bone jamming, overgrown ATV any day.
Been there, done that and have no interest in doing it again for a daily
driver.

Most of the people that do any REAL off road driving modify their Jeeps on
several levels. I'll bet that you have.
Liberty owners are doing the same and more and more modifications are coming
available all the time.

There are already mods in the works that will extend the articulation of the
IFS considerably and enable taller lifts even solid axel conversions for the
front end.

Most people that own Libbys like them a helluva lot and they are going to be
around awhile
So get used to it and get over it.

There! Now at least *I* feel better!

KJKate
2O|||||||O5 Liberty

..

KJ.Kate

"Clap Trap" <nowhere@the.net> wrote
-snipped-
: Even though I'll dis the libby every chance I get,

Now, I am not trying to start a flame war here bu I have just about had it
with this crap.

Why exactly IS that? Seems like a playground chant to me!.
"My Jeep's better than YOUR Jeep nyaah nyaah nyaah na!"

Bullwash.

The Liberty is a good vehicle. Just because there are things about it you
don't like, doesn't make it any less a Jeep. It is simply more civilized.

Do you think Liberty owners are going to run inside and cry because you have
made fun of their Jeeps?
Not Likely.
More likely than not you will see more and more Libertys doing things that
you think they can not or should not be doing because the vehicle doesn't
fit your particular criteria for what a "Jeep" should be.

Each vehicle has it's strengths and weaknesses. The Liberty isn't a stripped
down -
off the line rock crawling - extreme off road - bare bones vehicle but it's
a damn nice package on top of a comfortable, capable 4WD drive train. I'll
take the IFS
and a little top heavyness over a rattling, noisy, drafty, hard to heat,
hard to cool back breaking, bone jamming, overgrown ATV any day.
Been there, done that and have no interest in doing it again for a daily
driver.

Most of the people that do any REAL off road driving modify their Jeeps on
several levels. I'll bet that you have.
Liberty owners are doing the same and more and more modifications are coming
available all the time.

There are already mods in the works that will extend the articulation of the
IFS considerably and enable taller lifts even solid axel conversions for the
front end.

Most people that own Libbys like them a helluva lot and they are going to be
around awhile
So get used to it and get over it.

There! Now at least *I* feel better!

KJKate
2O|||||||O5 Liberty

..

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

If your Liberty were a child, we would say only it's mother would
love it.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"KJ.Kate" wrote:
>
> Now, I am not trying to start a flame war here bu I have just about had it
> with this crap.
>
> Why exactly IS that? Seems like a playground chant to me!.
> "My Jeep's better than YOUR Jeep nyaah nyaah nyaah na!"
>
> Bullwash.
>
> The Liberty is a good vehicle. Just because there are things about it you
> don't like, doesn't make it any less a Jeep. It is simply more civilized.
>
> Do you think Liberty owners are going to run inside and cry because you have
> made fun of their Jeeps?
> Not Likely.
> More likely than not you will see more and more Libertys doing things that
> you think they can not or should not be doing because the vehicle doesn't
> fit your particular criteria for what a "Jeep" should be.
>
> Each vehicle has it's strengths and weaknesses. The Liberty isn't a stripped
> down -
> off the line rock crawling - extreme off road - bare bones vehicle but it's
> a damn nice package on top of a comfortable, capable 4WD drive train. I'll
> take the IFS
> and a little top heavyness over a rattling, noisy, drafty, hard to heat,
> hard to cool back breaking, bone jamming, overgrown ATV any day.
> Been there, done that and have no interest in doing it again for a daily
> driver.
>
> Most of the people that do any REAL off road driving modify their Jeeps on
> several levels. I'll bet that you have.
> Liberty owners are doing the same and more and more modifications are coming
> available all the time.
>
> There are already mods in the works that will extend the articulation of the
> IFS considerably and enable taller lifts even solid axel conversions for the
> front end.
>
> Most people that own Libbys like them a helluva lot and they are going to be
> around awhile
> So get used to it and get over it.
>
> There! Now at least *I* feel better!
>
> KJKate
> 2O|||||||O5 Liberty
>
> .

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

If your Liberty were a child, we would say only it's mother would
love it.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"KJ.Kate" wrote:
>
> Now, I am not trying to start a flame war here bu I have just about had it
> with this crap.
>
> Why exactly IS that? Seems like a playground chant to me!.
> "My Jeep's better than YOUR Jeep nyaah nyaah nyaah na!"
>
> Bullwash.
>
> The Liberty is a good vehicle. Just because there are things about it you
> don't like, doesn't make it any less a Jeep. It is simply more civilized.
>
> Do you think Liberty owners are going to run inside and cry because you have
> made fun of their Jeeps?
> Not Likely.
> More likely than not you will see more and more Libertys doing things that
> you think they can not or should not be doing because the vehicle doesn't
> fit your particular criteria for what a "Jeep" should be.
>
> Each vehicle has it's strengths and weaknesses. The Liberty isn't a stripped
> down -
> off the line rock crawling - extreme off road - bare bones vehicle but it's
> a damn nice package on top of a comfortable, capable 4WD drive train. I'll
> take the IFS
> and a little top heavyness over a rattling, noisy, drafty, hard to heat,
> hard to cool back breaking, bone jamming, overgrown ATV any day.
> Been there, done that and have no interest in doing it again for a daily
> driver.
>
> Most of the people that do any REAL off road driving modify their Jeeps on
> several levels. I'll bet that you have.
> Liberty owners are doing the same and more and more modifications are coming
> available all the time.
>
> There are already mods in the works that will extend the articulation of the
> IFS considerably and enable taller lifts even solid axel conversions for the
> front end.
>
> Most people that own Libbys like them a helluva lot and they are going to be
> around awhile
> So get used to it and get over it.
>
> There! Now at least *I* feel better!
>
> KJKate
> 2O|||||||O5 Liberty
>
> .

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

If your Liberty were a child, we would say only it's mother would
love it.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"KJ.Kate" wrote:
>
> Now, I am not trying to start a flame war here bu I have just about had it
> with this crap.
>
> Why exactly IS that? Seems like a playground chant to me!.
> "My Jeep's better than YOUR Jeep nyaah nyaah nyaah na!"
>
> Bullwash.
>
> The Liberty is a good vehicle. Just because there are things about it you
> don't like, doesn't make it any less a Jeep. It is simply more civilized.
>
> Do you think Liberty owners are going to run inside and cry because you have
> made fun of their Jeeps?
> Not Likely.
> More likely than not you will see more and more Libertys doing things that
> you think they can not or should not be doing because the vehicle doesn't
> fit your particular criteria for what a "Jeep" should be.
>
> Each vehicle has it's strengths and weaknesses. The Liberty isn't a stripped
> down -
> off the line rock crawling - extreme off road - bare bones vehicle but it's
> a damn nice package on top of a comfortable, capable 4WD drive train. I'll
> take the IFS
> and a little top heavyness over a rattling, noisy, drafty, hard to heat,
> hard to cool back breaking, bone jamming, overgrown ATV any day.
> Been there, done that and have no interest in doing it again for a daily
> driver.
>
> Most of the people that do any REAL off road driving modify their Jeeps on
> several levels. I'll bet that you have.
> Liberty owners are doing the same and more and more modifications are coming
> available all the time.
>
> There are already mods in the works that will extend the articulation of the
> IFS considerably and enable taller lifts even solid axel conversions for the
> front end.
>
> Most people that own Libbys like them a helluva lot and they are going to be
> around awhile
> So get used to it and get over it.
>
> There! Now at least *I* feel better!
>
> KJKate
> 2O|||||||O5 Liberty
>
> .

Clap Trap

I object to the Libby because of what it represents. I never said it
wasn't a fine vehicle. You'll note in this thread I even told the
original poster it would be fine for what he wants.

The IFS and its commensurate rack and pinion steering are my main
objections. They detract from the original intent of the Jeep and
reduce its offroadability. Does that mean that IFS is not a capable
offroad system? Absolutely not. Does it mean the Libby is a piece of
junk? Absolutely not.

The Libby and the latest Grand Cherokee are fine vehicles, they just
represent a terrible direction for the Jeep line. There's nothing wrong
with Jeep wanting to go after another demographic, in fact I'm all for
it. In fact, blasphemey of blashphemies, I'd be first in line to buy
the Icon if they'd build it. I don't object to any of these new, more
refined vehicles. They would be great *additions* to the Jeep line.
The travesty of it is that they are *replacements* for the utilitarian
vehicles that Jeep has always been known for. They are watering down
the brand to the point that there is really no longer any reason to pick
Jeep over some other brand. They've turned Jeep into something that is
just as roadworthy as any other brand. Consequently, they have widened
the choice of vehicles I can pick from rather than continuing to produce
the only vehicles I would ever own.


KJ.Kate wrote:
> "Clap Trap" <nowhere@the.net> wrote
> -snipped-
> : Even though I'll dis the libby every chance I get,
>
> Now, I am not trying to start a flame war here bu I have just about had it
> with this crap.
>
> Why exactly IS that? Seems like a playground chant to me!.
> "My Jeep's better than YOUR Jeep nyaah nyaah nyaah na!"

Clap Trap

I object to the Libby because of what it represents. I never said it
wasn't a fine vehicle. You'll note in this thread I even told the
original poster it would be fine for what he wants.

The IFS and its commensurate rack and pinion steering are my main
objections. They detract from the original intent of the Jeep and
reduce its offroadability. Does that mean that IFS is not a capable
offroad system? Absolutely not. Does it mean the Libby is a piece of
junk? Absolutely not.

The Libby and the latest Grand Cherokee are fine vehicles, they just
represent a terrible direction for the Jeep line. There's nothing wrong
with Jeep wanting to go after another demographic, in fact I'm all for
it. In fact, blasphemey of blashphemies, I'd be first in line to buy
the Icon if they'd build it. I don't object to any of these new, more
refined vehicles. They would be great *additions* to the Jeep line.
The travesty of it is that they are *replacements* for the utilitarian
vehicles that Jeep has always been known for. They are watering down
the brand to the point that there is really no longer any reason to pick
Jeep over some other brand. They've turned Jeep into something that is
just as roadworthy as any other brand. Consequently, they have widened
the choice of vehicles I can pick from rather than continuing to produce
the only vehicles I would ever own.


KJ.Kate wrote:
> "Clap Trap" <nowhere@the.net> wrote
> -snipped-
> : Even though I'll dis the libby every chance I get,
>
> Now, I am not trying to start a flame war here bu I have just about had it
> with this crap.
>
> Why exactly IS that? Seems like a playground chant to me!.
> "My Jeep's better than YOUR Jeep nyaah nyaah nyaah na!"

Clap Trap

I object to the Libby because of what it represents. I never said it
wasn't a fine vehicle. You'll note in this thread I even told the
original poster it would be fine for what he wants.

The IFS and its commensurate rack and pinion steering are my main
objections. They detract from the original intent of the Jeep and
reduce its offroadability. Does that mean that IFS is not a capable
offroad system? Absolutely not. Does it mean the Libby is a piece of
junk? Absolutely not.

The Libby and the latest Grand Cherokee are fine vehicles, they just
represent a terrible direction for the Jeep line. There's nothing wrong
with Jeep wanting to go after another demographic, in fact I'm all for
it. In fact, blasphemey of blashphemies, I'd be first in line to buy
the Icon if they'd build it. I don't object to any of these new, more
refined vehicles. They would be great *additions* to the Jeep line.
The travesty of it is that they are *replacements* for the utilitarian
vehicles that Jeep has always been known for. They are watering down
the brand to the point that there is really no longer any reason to pick
Jeep over some other brand. They've turned Jeep into something that is
just as roadworthy as any other brand. Consequently, they have widened
the choice of vehicles I can pick from rather than continuing to produce
the only vehicles I would ever own.


KJ.Kate wrote:
> "Clap Trap" <nowhere@the.net> wrote
> -snipped-
> : Even though I'll dis the libby every chance I get,
>
> Now, I am not trying to start a flame war here bu I have just about had it
> with this crap.
>
> Why exactly IS that? Seems like a playground chant to me!.
> "My Jeep's better than YOUR Jeep nyaah nyaah nyaah na!"

KJ.Kate

"Clap Trap" <nowhere@the.net> wrote in message
news:59e7f$43ac8669$45490842$13148@KNOLOGY.NET...
:I object to the Libby because of what it represents. I never said it
: wasn't a fine vehicle. You'll note in this thread I even told the
: original poster it would be fine for what he wants.
:
: The IFS and its commensurate rack and pinion steering are my main
: objections. They detract from the original intent of the Jeep and
: reduce its offroadability. Does that mean that IFS is not a capable
: offroad system? Absolutely not. Does it mean the Libby is a piece of
: junk? Absolutely not.
:
: The Libby and the latest Grand Cherokee are fine vehicles, they just
: represent a terrible direction for the Jeep line. There's nothing wrong
: with Jeep wanting to go after another demographic, in fact I'm all for
: it. In fact, blasphemey of blashphemies, I'd be first in line to buy
: the Icon if they'd build it.

I have not seen anything on it, I'll go look.

:I don't object to any of these new, more
: refined vehicles. They would be great *additions* to the Jeep line.
: The travesty of it is that they are *replacements* for the utilitarian
: vehicles that Jeep has always been known for.

Ok, NOW I get you. AND.. I agree with you on many points. Unfortunately a
manufacturer can only produce so many models so some of them have to be
changed or replaced to meet market demand. So far, they have been smart and
have left the Wrangler alone. Looks like 07 will bring strange new winds. I
hope that they do not change it but it's not likely that they will leave it
alone.
I liked the Cherokee and as I have said before it is what I was looking for
when I bought the Libby. Truthfully, I didn't give a thought to the IFS. I
was a surprised when I realized it's limitations but by that time it was
already mine. For what I want I'm sure it will be fine. Today's requirements
for a 'utilitarian vehicle' are considerably different than they were even
20 or even 10 years ago.


:They are watering down
: the brand to the point that there is really no longer any reason to pick
: Jeep over some other brand. They've turned Jeep into something that is
: just as roadworthy as any other brand. Consequently, they have widened
: the choice of vehicles I can pick from rather than continuing to produce
: the only vehicles I would ever own.

Well written.


KJK

:
:
: KJ.Kate wrote:
: > "Clap Trap" <nowhere@the.net> wrote
: > -snipped-
: > : Even though I'll dis the libby every chance I get,
: >
: > Now, I am not trying to start a flame war here bu I have just about had
it
: > with this crap.
: >
: > Why exactly IS that? Seems like a playground chant to me!.
: > "My Jeep's better than YOUR Jeep nyaah nyaah nyaah na!"

KJ.Kate

"Clap Trap" <nowhere@the.net> wrote in message
news:59e7f$43ac8669$45490842$13148@KNOLOGY.NET...
:I object to the Libby because of what it represents. I never said it
: wasn't a fine vehicle. You'll note in this thread I even told the
: original poster it would be fine for what he wants.
:
: The IFS and its commensurate rack and pinion steering are my main
: objections. They detract from the original intent of the Jeep and
: reduce its offroadability. Does that mean that IFS is not a capable
: offroad system? Absolutely not. Does it mean the Libby is a piece of
: junk? Absolutely not.
:
: The Libby and the latest Grand Cherokee are fine vehicles, they just
: represent a terrible direction for the Jeep line. There's nothing wrong
: with Jeep wanting to go after another demographic, in fact I'm all for
: it. In fact, blasphemey of blashphemies, I'd be first in line to buy
: the Icon if they'd build it.

I have not seen anything on it, I'll go look.

:I don't object to any of these new, more
: refined vehicles. They would be great *additions* to the Jeep line.
: The travesty of it is that they are *replacements* for the utilitarian
: vehicles that Jeep has always been known for.

Ok, NOW I get you. AND.. I agree with you on many points. Unfortunately a
manufacturer can only produce so many models so some of them have to be
changed or replaced to meet market demand. So far, they have been smart and
have left the Wrangler alone. Looks like 07 will bring strange new winds. I
hope that they do not change it but it's not likely that they will leave it
alone.
I liked the Cherokee and as I have said before it is what I was looking for
when I bought the Libby. Truthfully, I didn't give a thought to the IFS. I
was a surprised when I realized it's limitations but by that time it was
already mine. For what I want I'm sure it will be fine. Today's requirements
for a 'utilitarian vehicle' are considerably different than they were even
20 or even 10 years ago.


:They are watering down
: the brand to the point that there is really no longer any reason to pick
: Jeep over some other brand. They've turned Jeep into something that is
: just as roadworthy as any other brand. Consequently, they have widened
: the choice of vehicles I can pick from rather than continuing to produce
: the only vehicles I would ever own.

Well written.


KJK

:
:
: KJ.Kate wrote:
: > "Clap Trap" <nowhere@the.net> wrote
: > -snipped-
: > : Even though I'll dis the libby every chance I get,
: >
: > Now, I am not trying to start a flame war here bu I have just about had
it
: > with this crap.
: >
: > Why exactly IS that? Seems like a playground chant to me!.
: > "My Jeep's better than YOUR Jeep nyaah nyaah nyaah na!"