Jerry Newton

Bill, as a "seasoned" mechanic, I certainly expect that you should know the
mechanic's creedo: Assume Nothing. I am with Roy on this one.


Jerry


"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:403690F9.B1DFEBE6@***.net...
> Roy, while under there replacing the stabilizer that you know he needs
> because that's the only way one tire may transfer the shimmy to the the
> other, you would naturally see anything else that needed replacing, or
> do you wear a blindfold while work on your car?
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Roy J wrote:
> >
> > Bill: READ MY PREVIOUS WORDS CAREFULLY
> >
> > YOU are the one that suggested changing the stabilizer WITHOUT
> > checking for the underlying causes. In my mind, that is getting
> > close to advocating an unsafe fix for a dangerous problem.
> >
> > Note that I did not say anything about not replacing a worn
> > stablizier only that advice about a stablizer should also include
> > advice/warning to check for the root cause.

Jerry Newton

Bill, as a "seasoned" mechanic, I certainly expect that you should know the
mechanic's creedo: Assume Nothing. I am with Roy on this one.


Jerry


"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:403690F9.B1DFEBE6@***.net...
> Roy, while under there replacing the stabilizer that you know he needs
> because that's the only way one tire may transfer the shimmy to the the
> other, you would naturally see anything else that needed replacing, or
> do you wear a blindfold while work on your car?
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Roy J wrote:
> >
> > Bill: READ MY PREVIOUS WORDS CAREFULLY
> >
> > YOU are the one that suggested changing the stabilizer WITHOUT
> > checking for the underlying causes. In my mind, that is getting
> > close to advocating an unsafe fix for a dangerous problem.
> >
> > Note that I did not say anything about not replacing a worn
> > stablizier only that advice about a stablizer should also include
> > advice/warning to check for the root cause.

Jerry Newton

Bill, as a "seasoned" mechanic, I certainly expect that you should know the
mechanic's creedo: Assume Nothing. I am with Roy on this one.


Jerry


"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:403690F9.B1DFEBE6@***.net...
> Roy, while under there replacing the stabilizer that you know he needs
> because that's the only way one tire may transfer the shimmy to the the
> other, you would naturally see anything else that needed replacing, or
> do you wear a blindfold while work on your car?
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Roy J wrote:
> >
> > Bill: READ MY PREVIOUS WORDS CAREFULLY
> >
> > YOU are the one that suggested changing the stabilizer WITHOUT
> > checking for the underlying causes. In my mind, that is getting
> > close to advocating an unsafe fix for a dangerous problem.
> >
> > Note that I did not say anything about not replacing a worn
> > stablizier only that advice about a stablizer should also include
> > advice/warning to check for the root cause.

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

And I respect your prerogative.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Jerry Newton wrote:
>
> Bill, as a "seasoned" mechanic, I certainly expect that you should know the
> mechanic's creedo: Assume Nothing. I am with Roy on this one.
>
> Jerry

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

And I respect your prerogative.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Jerry Newton wrote:
>
> Bill, as a "seasoned" mechanic, I certainly expect that you should know the
> mechanic's creedo: Assume Nothing. I am with Roy on this one.
>
> Jerry

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

And I respect your prerogative.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Jerry Newton wrote:
>
> Bill, as a "seasoned" mechanic, I certainly expect that you should know the
> mechanic's creedo: Assume Nothing. I am with Roy on this one.
>
> Jerry

Roy J

If a seasoned mechanic knows that a certain symptom commonly has
a serious (expensive or dangerous) underlying cause, the good
mechanic will always search for the possible/probable cause
rather than just apply a band aid fix. For said seasoned mechanic
to suggest to a neophyte that the fix is easy with a band aid is
rubbish. For something as serious as Death Wobble, it is highly
undethical to not point out how close to the edge the vehicle MAY
be.

Most of the newbys that read or post on RAMJ+W have read or heard
about Death Wobble, they think it is an interesting name, and
laugh it off. Anyone that has experienced it on a ride from 60mph
to 10 or 15 mph has a different view of it.

I have personally spent way to much time chasing down various
thumps, bumps, and loose joints that only manifested themselves
in very strange directions or on seemingly unrelated parts. They
can be very hard to find until it almost falls apart in your
hand. I'm a big boy and have done this before. But newbys expect
and need more than the one liner.

If your original advice had been to "replace the stabilzier but
be sure to check for usual culprits of loose tie rod ends, ball
joints, alignment, and tire balance" we would not be having this
discussion. If you want to come off as an expert, give out advice
that won't get someone killed down the line.

L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> Roy, while under there replacing the stabilizer that you know he needs
> because that's the only way one tire may transfer the shimmy to the the
> other, you would naturally see anything else that needed replacing, or
> do you wear a blindfold while work on your car?
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Roy J wrote:
>
>>Bill: READ MY PREVIOUS WORDS CAREFULLY
>>
>>YOU are the one that suggested changing the stabilizer WITHOUT
>>checking for the underlying causes. In my mind, that is getting
>>close to advocating an unsafe fix for a dangerous problem.
>>
>>Note that I did not say anything about not replacing a worn
>>stablizier only that advice about a stablizer should also include
>>advice/warning to check for the root cause.

Roy J

If a seasoned mechanic knows that a certain symptom commonly has
a serious (expensive or dangerous) underlying cause, the good
mechanic will always search for the possible/probable cause
rather than just apply a band aid fix. For said seasoned mechanic
to suggest to a neophyte that the fix is easy with a band aid is
rubbish. For something as serious as Death Wobble, it is highly
undethical to not point out how close to the edge the vehicle MAY
be.

Most of the newbys that read or post on RAMJ+W have read or heard
about Death Wobble, they think it is an interesting name, and
laugh it off. Anyone that has experienced it on a ride from 60mph
to 10 or 15 mph has a different view of it.

I have personally spent way to much time chasing down various
thumps, bumps, and loose joints that only manifested themselves
in very strange directions or on seemingly unrelated parts. They
can be very hard to find until it almost falls apart in your
hand. I'm a big boy and have done this before. But newbys expect
and need more than the one liner.

If your original advice had been to "replace the stabilzier but
be sure to check for usual culprits of loose tie rod ends, ball
joints, alignment, and tire balance" we would not be having this
discussion. If you want to come off as an expert, give out advice
that won't get someone killed down the line.

L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> Roy, while under there replacing the stabilizer that you know he needs
> because that's the only way one tire may transfer the shimmy to the the
> other, you would naturally see anything else that needed replacing, or
> do you wear a blindfold while work on your car?
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Roy J wrote:
>
>>Bill: READ MY PREVIOUS WORDS CAREFULLY
>>
>>YOU are the one that suggested changing the stabilizer WITHOUT
>>checking for the underlying causes. In my mind, that is getting
>>close to advocating an unsafe fix for a dangerous problem.
>>
>>Note that I did not say anything about not replacing a worn
>>stablizier only that advice about a stablizer should also include
>>advice/warning to check for the root cause.

Roy J

If a seasoned mechanic knows that a certain symptom commonly has
a serious (expensive or dangerous) underlying cause, the good
mechanic will always search for the possible/probable cause
rather than just apply a band aid fix. For said seasoned mechanic
to suggest to a neophyte that the fix is easy with a band aid is
rubbish. For something as serious as Death Wobble, it is highly
undethical to not point out how close to the edge the vehicle MAY
be.

Most of the newbys that read or post on RAMJ+W have read or heard
about Death Wobble, they think it is an interesting name, and
laugh it off. Anyone that has experienced it on a ride from 60mph
to 10 or 15 mph has a different view of it.

I have personally spent way to much time chasing down various
thumps, bumps, and loose joints that only manifested themselves
in very strange directions or on seemingly unrelated parts. They
can be very hard to find until it almost falls apart in your
hand. I'm a big boy and have done this before. But newbys expect
and need more than the one liner.

If your original advice had been to "replace the stabilzier but
be sure to check for usual culprits of loose tie rod ends, ball
joints, alignment, and tire balance" we would not be having this
discussion. If you want to come off as an expert, give out advice
that won't get someone killed down the line.

L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> Roy, while under there replacing the stabilizer that you know he needs
> because that's the only way one tire may transfer the shimmy to the the
> other, you would naturally see anything else that needed replacing, or
> do you wear a blindfold while work on your car?
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Roy J wrote:
>
>>Bill: READ MY PREVIOUS WORDS CAREFULLY
>>
>>YOU are the one that suggested changing the stabilizer WITHOUT
>>checking for the underlying causes. In my mind, that is getting
>>close to advocating an unsafe fix for a dangerous problem.
>>
>>Note that I did not say anything about not replacing a worn
>>stablizier only that advice about a stablizer should also include
>>advice/warning to check for the root cause.

Roy J

A steering stablizier on the drag link doesn't do all that much
good. DW is where the two tires start oscillating between them
selves, the tie rod is the connecting link.

Terry Jeffrey wrote:

> It very well might be the steering stabilizer because everything else on the
> front is new. All the steering components and entire front end is new and
> tight and only has about 3,000 miles. Ball joints, tie rod & ends, drag
> link & ends, and steering arms are all new, freshly lubed and tight. I just
> put a Dynatrac D60 up front in October.
>
> I'll do the test you suggest anyway tonight and see what happens. I'll have
> the caster checked too at one of these local garages and shim it up if
> needed. I removed the track bar for now but still got the DW in that same
> damn bump again so I know it wasn't the track bar as first thought. If she
> passes the ball joint and tie rod tests then I'll focus on the old steering
> stabilizer. The stabilizer is currently mounted from the frame to the drag
> link. One fellow today suggested moving the mount to the tie rod instead
> since it is "closer" to the steering.
>
> Thanks for all the comments and info.
>
> Terry
> 92YJ
>
>
>
> "CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:103cffo5nl9i178@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>"Roy J" <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote in message
>>news:ttpZb.6$DV3.10262@news.uswest.net...
>>Bill, Ya gotta quit suggesting "replace steering stabilzier" for
>>every case of DW. Sure, replacing it might fix the problem for a
>>while but the underlying condition will just get worse, make the
>>NEXT DW more serious. The OP has a loose track bar and wants to
>>REMOVE it? I'll make bets that he also has a loose ball joint or
>>tie rod end. The '92 YJ has 12 years on it, about due for some
>>front end work.
>>
>>
>>I'll second that diagnosis.
>>
>>I have a leaf spring suspension, and I have no trackbar and no DW
>>experiences. I am about due for some DW though because I suspect the ball
>>joints are worn and I know the tie rods are near end-life.
>>
>>DW is caused because one tire gets pushed off of straight ahead, and it
>>takes a while for the other tire to aim itself in the same direction.
>
> During
>
>>the delay, the first tire regains its composure and starts looking for the
>>front again, in the mean time the other tire has cought up to where the
>>first tire was a second ago but isn't anymore. The second tire then heads
>>back to the front, but the first tire is not there anymore because it has
>>decided to go to where the other tire just left. Things spiral downward
>
> from
>
>>there.
>>
>>Caster Angle plays a large role in DW, but caster is not adjustable in a
>>leaf spring front end. (Yes, caster can be adjusted by shims, but the idea
>>is that the axle builder sets the caster angle by the way it positions the
>>spring perches, and the angle normally does not require adjustment as much
>>as it might in a coil spring set up.) I suspect the caster angle on your
>
> YJ
>
>>is probably fine, so it is time to move on to some of the other issues.
>
> Ball
>
>>joints and tie rods should be checked. The Lower Ball Joint is the one
>
> that
>
>>you will most likely need to replace, and you should give serious
>>consideration to replacing both of them even if only one passes the test
>
> for
>
>>a failure item. To test for failure, raise the front tire off the ground
>
> and
>
>>1.) try to move it by pushing and pulling at the top and the bottom, and
>
> 2.)
>
>>use a lever to lift the tire. The tire under test ought not move in either
>>of these tests. You need a buddy to GENTLY turn the steering wheel back
>
> and
>
>>forth as you look at each tie rod end. There should be no play in the tie
>>rod ends.
>>
>>If the tires (both) pass both of the ball joint tests and all of the tie
>
> rod
>
>>ends pass the tie rod tests, THEN you can get away with replacing the
>>steering stabalizer as the only repair activity. If any of the ball joints
>>or tie rods fail its respective test, then replace all like-parts and the
>>steering stabalizer. In the case of the ball joints, it is only necessary
>>(MOST OF THE TIME) to replace the lower ball joints. The upper ball joints
>>don't carry any weight, so they do not go out very often.
>>
>
>
>