Mike Romain

You are describing two different issues or 2 things messed up I think.

And no, the different carb just doesn't need the O2 or Computer, it
doesn't do away with them, that damn computer is still trying to micro
manage the timing advance and all the vacuum relays and it can't do it,
so sets it at a predetermined 'base' setting so the Jeep can at least
limp home.

Folks can just put a carb on and set it the best it can get and the Jeep
will run quite fine with a power compromise. The proper way is to dump
the computer so you have full manual control on everything including the
timing advance.

You will get a 25% seat of the pants kick in power with no computer. 10
mph extra per gear at least.

You are describing dirty parts on the choke fast idle linkage setup and
you are describing dirt inside the carb plugging up the idle tubes.

One gent that was over a couple weeks ago had that. We killed the
computer, then took some WD40 and spray cleaned the choke linkage parts,
concentrating on the plastic stepper thing.

It then ran like crap at a low idle with the timing set up manually and
the carb mix set manually.

I had the air filter off and looked down the carb as it was running. I
saw drips of gas coming down from one of the venturi nozzles. I upped
the speed a bit by hand on the linkages and the drips got bigger and
more.

He said, 'oh no problem, it always idles like that'. LOL! He was so
used to it, he thought it was normal.

No way was I going to let him leave like that, so I pulled off the choke
plate and undid the two screws holding the venturi cluster in the carb
and wiggled the cluster out.

One idle tube was blocked with a chunk of dirt. Cleaned it, put it back
together and then it just purred..... We put our beers on the air
filter and it didn't shake or bubble them when turning 750 rpm....

The Job took 1/2 an hour with me explaining to him what I was doing so
he can do it himself if it happens again. On the trail I can have one
cleaned and back on in 15 minutes flat.

Here is a link on that low idle fix:

http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html

But basically that carb is a really good one if treated right according
to the 'book'.

Clean it and put a kit in with every major tune or every set of plugs,
change the gas filter every year and make sure it is in right side up.
It has to be level with the center outlet going to the carb and the
return line hooked to the top outlet. The return line has to be on top
or gas will just syphon back to the tank making it not want to cold
start.

Mike

ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike.
> The funny thing is when I bought it in September...it idled excellent. I
> mean the thing ran great and I was so suprised because I've heard horror
> stories about the 258s. Now that the weather has gotten colder...the idle on
> this thing is crap...mostly runs WAY too high and on occasion will click
> down and run so low it'll stall. Even when it's completely warmed up...does
> the same thing. And doesn't the Weber replacement do away with the 02 sensor
> and computer?? Not sure on that one. I'm looking for the most simple swap
> possible..the MC2100 looks a bit troublesome for a guy who knows jack about
> carbs (ME!).
> Allen
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3FEC73FA.84973ACA@sympatico.ca...
> > You have a butchered wiring and computer setup that is going to run like
> > crap until you get it sorted out no matter what carb is on it.
> >
> > Stock the idle mix and half those vacuum lines and solenoids are
> > computer controlled.
> >
> > With no O2 sensor, the computer is stuck in limp home mode which clamps
> > down on the mix and the timing advance.
> >
> > I would recommend you at least put the computer out of your misery so
> > you can start to make sense of the rest of the system.
> >
> > That Carter carb you have on there is a very nice carb when it is tuned
> > up and clean. Mine goes like a scalded cat with just an Accel coil and
> > stock everything else. (no computer) I get a nice 19 US mpg and she
> > will easily bury the spedo in 4th.
> >
> > Carbs do take some tweaking to get them to run right. That goes for all
> > carbs, so if you can't get the Carter running, not likely you will have
> > any luck with any other carb either.
> >
> > Carbs are also supposed to get a kit put in them every time you change
> > your spark plugs according to the CJ owners manual. Do you know when
> > the last kit went in yours or when the last plugs went in? Kits are
> > less than $20.00 and are easy to put in.
> >
> > Too bad you don't live close to me. I have helped 3 people put in kits
> > and kill the computers in the last couple months.
> >
> > Things like the charcoal canister, PCV, EGR and air filter flaps are all
> > needed parts you cannot take off. The rest is mostly junk.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > >
> > > My 83 CJ7 has given up the ghost on the carb. I'm pretty sure it's a
> > > carter....anyway to definitively tell? Anyway..it's a 258 stock
> motor...the
> > > only bad thing is the PO disconnected the 02 sensor during a YJ tub
> > > swap..there are a few things I can't find at the moment when it comes to
> > > wiring inside the engine bay. The motor runs great when tooling down the
> > > road but I can't get it to idle right. The choke wants to either idle
> WAY
> > > high...or so low it stalls.
> > > Question is what carb would you recommend replacing it with and what do
> I do
> > > with all this emissions crap like the charcoal canister....or does it
> > > matter...I think there are a few hoses coming from the carb that have to
> do
> > > with emissions. Any write ups would be great.
> > > Allen

Mike Romain

You are describing two different issues or 2 things messed up I think.

And no, the different carb just doesn't need the O2 or Computer, it
doesn't do away with them, that damn computer is still trying to micro
manage the timing advance and all the vacuum relays and it can't do it,
so sets it at a predetermined 'base' setting so the Jeep can at least
limp home.

Folks can just put a carb on and set it the best it can get and the Jeep
will run quite fine with a power compromise. The proper way is to dump
the computer so you have full manual control on everything including the
timing advance.

You will get a 25% seat of the pants kick in power with no computer. 10
mph extra per gear at least.

You are describing dirty parts on the choke fast idle linkage setup and
you are describing dirt inside the carb plugging up the idle tubes.

One gent that was over a couple weeks ago had that. We killed the
computer, then took some WD40 and spray cleaned the choke linkage parts,
concentrating on the plastic stepper thing.

It then ran like crap at a low idle with the timing set up manually and
the carb mix set manually.

I had the air filter off and looked down the carb as it was running. I
saw drips of gas coming down from one of the venturi nozzles. I upped
the speed a bit by hand on the linkages and the drips got bigger and
more.

He said, 'oh no problem, it always idles like that'. LOL! He was so
used to it, he thought it was normal.

No way was I going to let him leave like that, so I pulled off the choke
plate and undid the two screws holding the venturi cluster in the carb
and wiggled the cluster out.

One idle tube was blocked with a chunk of dirt. Cleaned it, put it back
together and then it just purred..... We put our beers on the air
filter and it didn't shake or bubble them when turning 750 rpm....

The Job took 1/2 an hour with me explaining to him what I was doing so
he can do it himself if it happens again. On the trail I can have one
cleaned and back on in 15 minutes flat.

Here is a link on that low idle fix:

http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html

But basically that carb is a really good one if treated right according
to the 'book'.

Clean it and put a kit in with every major tune or every set of plugs,
change the gas filter every year and make sure it is in right side up.
It has to be level with the center outlet going to the carb and the
return line hooked to the top outlet. The return line has to be on top
or gas will just syphon back to the tank making it not want to cold
start.

Mike

ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike.
> The funny thing is when I bought it in September...it idled excellent. I
> mean the thing ran great and I was so suprised because I've heard horror
> stories about the 258s. Now that the weather has gotten colder...the idle on
> this thing is crap...mostly runs WAY too high and on occasion will click
> down and run so low it'll stall. Even when it's completely warmed up...does
> the same thing. And doesn't the Weber replacement do away with the 02 sensor
> and computer?? Not sure on that one. I'm looking for the most simple swap
> possible..the MC2100 looks a bit troublesome for a guy who knows jack about
> carbs (ME!).
> Allen
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3FEC73FA.84973ACA@sympatico.ca...
> > You have a butchered wiring and computer setup that is going to run like
> > crap until you get it sorted out no matter what carb is on it.
> >
> > Stock the idle mix and half those vacuum lines and solenoids are
> > computer controlled.
> >
> > With no O2 sensor, the computer is stuck in limp home mode which clamps
> > down on the mix and the timing advance.
> >
> > I would recommend you at least put the computer out of your misery so
> > you can start to make sense of the rest of the system.
> >
> > That Carter carb you have on there is a very nice carb when it is tuned
> > up and clean. Mine goes like a scalded cat with just an Accel coil and
> > stock everything else. (no computer) I get a nice 19 US mpg and she
> > will easily bury the spedo in 4th.
> >
> > Carbs do take some tweaking to get them to run right. That goes for all
> > carbs, so if you can't get the Carter running, not likely you will have
> > any luck with any other carb either.
> >
> > Carbs are also supposed to get a kit put in them every time you change
> > your spark plugs according to the CJ owners manual. Do you know when
> > the last kit went in yours or when the last plugs went in? Kits are
> > less than $20.00 and are easy to put in.
> >
> > Too bad you don't live close to me. I have helped 3 people put in kits
> > and kill the computers in the last couple months.
> >
> > Things like the charcoal canister, PCV, EGR and air filter flaps are all
> > needed parts you cannot take off. The rest is mostly junk.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > >
> > > My 83 CJ7 has given up the ghost on the carb. I'm pretty sure it's a
> > > carter....anyway to definitively tell? Anyway..it's a 258 stock
> motor...the
> > > only bad thing is the PO disconnected the 02 sensor during a YJ tub
> > > swap..there are a few things I can't find at the moment when it comes to
> > > wiring inside the engine bay. The motor runs great when tooling down the
> > > road but I can't get it to idle right. The choke wants to either idle
> WAY
> > > high...or so low it stalls.
> > > Question is what carb would you recommend replacing it with and what do
> I do
> > > with all this emissions crap like the charcoal canister....or does it
> > > matter...I think there are a few hoses coming from the carb that have to
> do
> > > with emissions. Any write ups would be great.
> > > Allen

Mike Romain

You are describing two different issues or 2 things messed up I think.

And no, the different carb just doesn't need the O2 or Computer, it
doesn't do away with them, that damn computer is still trying to micro
manage the timing advance and all the vacuum relays and it can't do it,
so sets it at a predetermined 'base' setting so the Jeep can at least
limp home.

Folks can just put a carb on and set it the best it can get and the Jeep
will run quite fine with a power compromise. The proper way is to dump
the computer so you have full manual control on everything including the
timing advance.

You will get a 25% seat of the pants kick in power with no computer. 10
mph extra per gear at least.

You are describing dirty parts on the choke fast idle linkage setup and
you are describing dirt inside the carb plugging up the idle tubes.

One gent that was over a couple weeks ago had that. We killed the
computer, then took some WD40 and spray cleaned the choke linkage parts,
concentrating on the plastic stepper thing.

It then ran like crap at a low idle with the timing set up manually and
the carb mix set manually.

I had the air filter off and looked down the carb as it was running. I
saw drips of gas coming down from one of the venturi nozzles. I upped
the speed a bit by hand on the linkages and the drips got bigger and
more.

He said, 'oh no problem, it always idles like that'. LOL! He was so
used to it, he thought it was normal.

No way was I going to let him leave like that, so I pulled off the choke
plate and undid the two screws holding the venturi cluster in the carb
and wiggled the cluster out.

One idle tube was blocked with a chunk of dirt. Cleaned it, put it back
together and then it just purred..... We put our beers on the air
filter and it didn't shake or bubble them when turning 750 rpm....

The Job took 1/2 an hour with me explaining to him what I was doing so
he can do it himself if it happens again. On the trail I can have one
cleaned and back on in 15 minutes flat.

Here is a link on that low idle fix:

http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html

But basically that carb is a really good one if treated right according
to the 'book'.

Clean it and put a kit in with every major tune or every set of plugs,
change the gas filter every year and make sure it is in right side up.
It has to be level with the center outlet going to the carb and the
return line hooked to the top outlet. The return line has to be on top
or gas will just syphon back to the tank making it not want to cold
start.

Mike

ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike.
> The funny thing is when I bought it in September...it idled excellent. I
> mean the thing ran great and I was so suprised because I've heard horror
> stories about the 258s. Now that the weather has gotten colder...the idle on
> this thing is crap...mostly runs WAY too high and on occasion will click
> down and run so low it'll stall. Even when it's completely warmed up...does
> the same thing. And doesn't the Weber replacement do away with the 02 sensor
> and computer?? Not sure on that one. I'm looking for the most simple swap
> possible..the MC2100 looks a bit troublesome for a guy who knows jack about
> carbs (ME!).
> Allen
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3FEC73FA.84973ACA@sympatico.ca...
> > You have a butchered wiring and computer setup that is going to run like
> > crap until you get it sorted out no matter what carb is on it.
> >
> > Stock the idle mix and half those vacuum lines and solenoids are
> > computer controlled.
> >
> > With no O2 sensor, the computer is stuck in limp home mode which clamps
> > down on the mix and the timing advance.
> >
> > I would recommend you at least put the computer out of your misery so
> > you can start to make sense of the rest of the system.
> >
> > That Carter carb you have on there is a very nice carb when it is tuned
> > up and clean. Mine goes like a scalded cat with just an Accel coil and
> > stock everything else. (no computer) I get a nice 19 US mpg and she
> > will easily bury the spedo in 4th.
> >
> > Carbs do take some tweaking to get them to run right. That goes for all
> > carbs, so if you can't get the Carter running, not likely you will have
> > any luck with any other carb either.
> >
> > Carbs are also supposed to get a kit put in them every time you change
> > your spark plugs according to the CJ owners manual. Do you know when
> > the last kit went in yours or when the last plugs went in? Kits are
> > less than $20.00 and are easy to put in.
> >
> > Too bad you don't live close to me. I have helped 3 people put in kits
> > and kill the computers in the last couple months.
> >
> > Things like the charcoal canister, PCV, EGR and air filter flaps are all
> > needed parts you cannot take off. The rest is mostly junk.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > >
> > > My 83 CJ7 has given up the ghost on the carb. I'm pretty sure it's a
> > > carter....anyway to definitively tell? Anyway..it's a 258 stock
> motor...the
> > > only bad thing is the PO disconnected the 02 sensor during a YJ tub
> > > swap..there are a few things I can't find at the moment when it comes to
> > > wiring inside the engine bay. The motor runs great when tooling down the
> > > road but I can't get it to idle right. The choke wants to either idle
> WAY
> > > high...or so low it stalls.
> > > Question is what carb would you recommend replacing it with and what do
> I do
> > > with all this emissions crap like the charcoal canister....or does it
> > > matter...I think there are a few hoses coming from the carb that have to
> do
> > > with emissions. Any write ups would be great.
> > > Allen

Guest

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3FEC8E20.DB1D8ADC@sympatico.ca...
> ..... We put our beers on the air
> filter and it didn't shake or bubble them when turning 750 rpm....

Excellent scientific test!!!

>
> Clean it and put a kit in with every major tune or every set of plugs,
> change the gas filter every year and make sure it is in right side up.
> It has to be level with the center outlet going to the carb and the
> return line hooked to the top outlet. The return line has to be on top
> or gas will just syphon back to the tank making it not want to cold
> start.

What kit are you referring to Mike? And is that something Autozone will
carry? I'm getting ready to do that procedure you refered to this afternoon.
You don't have a schematic of the carb do you? I'm trying to picture this
choke linkage and what side of the carb it's on. Says something about
drilling out a rivet...and without removing the carb I take it that it is on
the driver's side.
Thanks again!
Allen




>>
> ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike.
> > The funny thing is when I bought it in September...it idled excellent. I
> > mean the thing ran great and I was so suprised because I've heard horror
> > stories about the 258s. Now that the weather has gotten colder...the
idle on
> > this thing is crap...mostly runs WAY too high and on occasion will click
> > down and run so low it'll stall. Even when it's completely warmed
up...does
> > the same thing. And doesn't the Weber replacement do away with the 02
sensor
> > and computer?? Not sure on that one. I'm looking for the most simple
swap
> > possible..the MC2100 looks a bit troublesome for a guy who knows jack
about
> > carbs (ME!).
> > Allen
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3FEC73FA.84973ACA@sympatico.ca...
> > > You have a butchered wiring and computer setup that is going to run
like
> > > crap until you get it sorted out no matter what carb is on it.
> > >
> > > Stock the idle mix and half those vacuum lines and solenoids are
> > > computer controlled.
> > >
> > > With no O2 sensor, the computer is stuck in limp home mode which
clamps
> > > down on the mix and the timing advance.
> > >
> > > I would recommend you at least put the computer out of your misery so
> > > you can start to make sense of the rest of the system.
> > >
> > > That Carter carb you have on there is a very nice carb when it is
tuned
> > > up and clean. Mine goes like a scalded cat with just an Accel coil
and
> > > stock everything else. (no computer) I get a nice 19 US mpg and she
> > > will easily bury the spedo in 4th.
> > >
> > > Carbs do take some tweaking to get them to run right. That goes for
all
> > > carbs, so if you can't get the Carter running, not likely you will
have
> > > any luck with any other carb either.
> > >
> > > Carbs are also supposed to get a kit put in them every time you change
> > > your spark plugs according to the CJ owners manual. Do you know when
> > > the last kit went in yours or when the last plugs went in? Kits are
> > > less than $20.00 and are easy to put in.
> > >
> > > Too bad you don't live close to me. I have helped 3 people put in
kits
> > > and kill the computers in the last couple months.
> > >
> > > Things like the charcoal canister, PCV, EGR and air filter flaps are
all
> > > needed parts you cannot take off. The rest is mostly junk.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My 83 CJ7 has given up the ghost on the carb. I'm pretty sure it's a
> > > > carter....anyway to definitively tell? Anyway..it's a 258 stock
> > motor...the
> > > > only bad thing is the PO disconnected the 02 sensor during a YJ tub
> > > > swap..there are a few things I can't find at the moment when it
comes to
> > > > wiring inside the engine bay. The motor runs great when tooling down
the
> > > > road but I can't get it to idle right. The choke wants to either
idle
> > WAY
> > > > high...or so low it stalls.
> > > > Question is what carb would you recommend replacing it with and what
do
> > I do
> > > > with all this emissions crap like the charcoal canister....or does
it
> > > > matter...I think there are a few hoses coming from the carb that
have to
> > do
> > > > with emissions. Any write ups would be great.
> > > > Allen

Guest

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3FEC8E20.DB1D8ADC@sympatico.ca...
> ..... We put our beers on the air
> filter and it didn't shake or bubble them when turning 750 rpm....

Excellent scientific test!!!

>
> Clean it and put a kit in with every major tune or every set of plugs,
> change the gas filter every year and make sure it is in right side up.
> It has to be level with the center outlet going to the carb and the
> return line hooked to the top outlet. The return line has to be on top
> or gas will just syphon back to the tank making it not want to cold
> start.

What kit are you referring to Mike? And is that something Autozone will
carry? I'm getting ready to do that procedure you refered to this afternoon.
You don't have a schematic of the carb do you? I'm trying to picture this
choke linkage and what side of the carb it's on. Says something about
drilling out a rivet...and without removing the carb I take it that it is on
the driver's side.
Thanks again!
Allen




>>
> ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike.
> > The funny thing is when I bought it in September...it idled excellent. I
> > mean the thing ran great and I was so suprised because I've heard horror
> > stories about the 258s. Now that the weather has gotten colder...the
idle on
> > this thing is crap...mostly runs WAY too high and on occasion will click
> > down and run so low it'll stall. Even when it's completely warmed
up...does
> > the same thing. And doesn't the Weber replacement do away with the 02
sensor
> > and computer?? Not sure on that one. I'm looking for the most simple
swap
> > possible..the MC2100 looks a bit troublesome for a guy who knows jack
about
> > carbs (ME!).
> > Allen
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3FEC73FA.84973ACA@sympatico.ca...
> > > You have a butchered wiring and computer setup that is going to run
like
> > > crap until you get it sorted out no matter what carb is on it.
> > >
> > > Stock the idle mix and half those vacuum lines and solenoids are
> > > computer controlled.
> > >
> > > With no O2 sensor, the computer is stuck in limp home mode which
clamps
> > > down on the mix and the timing advance.
> > >
> > > I would recommend you at least put the computer out of your misery so
> > > you can start to make sense of the rest of the system.
> > >
> > > That Carter carb you have on there is a very nice carb when it is
tuned
> > > up and clean. Mine goes like a scalded cat with just an Accel coil
and
> > > stock everything else. (no computer) I get a nice 19 US mpg and she
> > > will easily bury the spedo in 4th.
> > >
> > > Carbs do take some tweaking to get them to run right. That goes for
all
> > > carbs, so if you can't get the Carter running, not likely you will
have
> > > any luck with any other carb either.
> > >
> > > Carbs are also supposed to get a kit put in them every time you change
> > > your spark plugs according to the CJ owners manual. Do you know when
> > > the last kit went in yours or when the last plugs went in? Kits are
> > > less than $20.00 and are easy to put in.
> > >
> > > Too bad you don't live close to me. I have helped 3 people put in
kits
> > > and kill the computers in the last couple months.
> > >
> > > Things like the charcoal canister, PCV, EGR and air filter flaps are
all
> > > needed parts you cannot take off. The rest is mostly junk.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My 83 CJ7 has given up the ghost on the carb. I'm pretty sure it's a
> > > > carter....anyway to definitively tell? Anyway..it's a 258 stock
> > motor...the
> > > > only bad thing is the PO disconnected the 02 sensor during a YJ tub
> > > > swap..there are a few things I can't find at the moment when it
comes to
> > > > wiring inside the engine bay. The motor runs great when tooling down
the
> > > > road but I can't get it to idle right. The choke wants to either
idle
> > WAY
> > > > high...or so low it stalls.
> > > > Question is what carb would you recommend replacing it with and what
do
> > I do
> > > > with all this emissions crap like the charcoal canister....or does
it
> > > > matter...I think there are a few hoses coming from the carb that
have to
> > do
> > > > with emissions. Any write ups would be great.
> > > > Allen

Guest

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3FEC8E20.DB1D8ADC@sympatico.ca...
> ..... We put our beers on the air
> filter and it didn't shake or bubble them when turning 750 rpm....

Excellent scientific test!!!

>
> Clean it and put a kit in with every major tune or every set of plugs,
> change the gas filter every year and make sure it is in right side up.
> It has to be level with the center outlet going to the carb and the
> return line hooked to the top outlet. The return line has to be on top
> or gas will just syphon back to the tank making it not want to cold
> start.

What kit are you referring to Mike? And is that something Autozone will
carry? I'm getting ready to do that procedure you refered to this afternoon.
You don't have a schematic of the carb do you? I'm trying to picture this
choke linkage and what side of the carb it's on. Says something about
drilling out a rivet...and without removing the carb I take it that it is on
the driver's side.
Thanks again!
Allen




>>
> ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike.
> > The funny thing is when I bought it in September...it idled excellent. I
> > mean the thing ran great and I was so suprised because I've heard horror
> > stories about the 258s. Now that the weather has gotten colder...the
idle on
> > this thing is crap...mostly runs WAY too high and on occasion will click
> > down and run so low it'll stall. Even when it's completely warmed
up...does
> > the same thing. And doesn't the Weber replacement do away with the 02
sensor
> > and computer?? Not sure on that one. I'm looking for the most simple
swap
> > possible..the MC2100 looks a bit troublesome for a guy who knows jack
about
> > carbs (ME!).
> > Allen
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3FEC73FA.84973ACA@sympatico.ca...
> > > You have a butchered wiring and computer setup that is going to run
like
> > > crap until you get it sorted out no matter what carb is on it.
> > >
> > > Stock the idle mix and half those vacuum lines and solenoids are
> > > computer controlled.
> > >
> > > With no O2 sensor, the computer is stuck in limp home mode which
clamps
> > > down on the mix and the timing advance.
> > >
> > > I would recommend you at least put the computer out of your misery so
> > > you can start to make sense of the rest of the system.
> > >
> > > That Carter carb you have on there is a very nice carb when it is
tuned
> > > up and clean. Mine goes like a scalded cat with just an Accel coil
and
> > > stock everything else. (no computer) I get a nice 19 US mpg and she
> > > will easily bury the spedo in 4th.
> > >
> > > Carbs do take some tweaking to get them to run right. That goes for
all
> > > carbs, so if you can't get the Carter running, not likely you will
have
> > > any luck with any other carb either.
> > >
> > > Carbs are also supposed to get a kit put in them every time you change
> > > your spark plugs according to the CJ owners manual. Do you know when
> > > the last kit went in yours or when the last plugs went in? Kits are
> > > less than $20.00 and are easy to put in.
> > >
> > > Too bad you don't live close to me. I have helped 3 people put in
kits
> > > and kill the computers in the last couple months.
> > >
> > > Things like the charcoal canister, PCV, EGR and air filter flaps are
all
> > > needed parts you cannot take off. The rest is mostly junk.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My 83 CJ7 has given up the ghost on the carb. I'm pretty sure it's a
> > > > carter....anyway to definitively tell? Anyway..it's a 258 stock
> > motor...the
> > > > only bad thing is the PO disconnected the 02 sensor during a YJ tub
> > > > swap..there are a few things I can't find at the moment when it
comes to
> > > > wiring inside the engine bay. The motor runs great when tooling down
the
> > > > road but I can't get it to idle right. The choke wants to either
idle
> > WAY
> > > > high...or so low it stalls.
> > > > Question is what carb would you recommend replacing it with and what
do
> > I do
> > > > with all this emissions crap like the charcoal canister....or does
it
> > > > matter...I think there are a few hoses coming from the carb that
have to
> > do
> > > > with emissions. Any write ups would be great.
> > > > Allen

Jeepster

Almost sounds like the choke is not opening all the way and sometimes
you are stuck on the high idle cam and when it comes off the cam it
drops too curb idle which might be set low.

I would also take a look at the solvac and see what it is doing during
these idle problems.

Just a guess ...... experts here correct me if wrong.

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:26:36 GMT, <ABanks5@columbus.rr.com> wrote:

>Thanks Mike.
>The funny thing is when I bought it in September...it idled excellent. I
>mean the thing ran great and I was so suprised because I've heard horror
>stories about the 258s. Now that the weather has gotten colder...the idle on
>this thing is crap...mostly runs WAY too high and on occasion will click
>down and run so low it'll stall. Even when it's completely warmed up...does
>the same thing. And doesn't the Weber replacement do away with the 02 sensor
>and computer?? Not sure on that one. I'm looking for the most simple swap
>possible..the MC2100 looks a bit troublesome for a guy who knows jack about
>carbs (ME!).
>Allen
>
>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>news:3FEC73FA.84973ACA@sympatico.ca...
>> You have a butchered wiring and computer setup that is going to run like
>> crap until you get it sorted out no matter what carb is on it.
>>
>> Stock the idle mix and half those vacuum lines and solenoids are
>> computer controlled.
>>
>> With no O2 sensor, the computer is stuck in limp home mode which clamps
>> down on the mix and the timing advance.
>>
>> I would recommend you at least put the computer out of your misery so
>> you can start to make sense of the rest of the system.
>>
>> That Carter carb you have on there is a very nice carb when it is tuned
>> up and clean. Mine goes like a scalded cat with just an Accel coil and
>> stock everything else. (no computer) I get a nice 19 US mpg and she
>> will easily bury the spedo in 4th.
>>
>> Carbs do take some tweaking to get them to run right. That goes for all
>> carbs, so if you can't get the Carter running, not likely you will have
>> any luck with any other carb either.
>>
>> Carbs are also supposed to get a kit put in them every time you change
>> your spark plugs according to the CJ owners manual. Do you know when
>> the last kit went in yours or when the last plugs went in? Kits are
>> less than $20.00 and are easy to put in.
>>
>> Too bad you don't live close to me. I have helped 3 people put in kits
>> and kill the computers in the last couple months.
>>
>> Things like the charcoal canister, PCV, EGR and air filter flaps are all
>> needed parts you cannot take off. The rest is mostly junk.
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>
>> ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
>> >
>> > My 83 CJ7 has given up the ghost on the carb. I'm pretty sure it's a
>> > carter....anyway to definitively tell? Anyway..it's a 258 stock
>motor...the
>> > only bad thing is the PO disconnected the 02 sensor during a YJ tub
>> > swap..there are a few things I can't find at the moment when it comes to
>> > wiring inside the engine bay. The motor runs great when tooling down the
>> > road but I can't get it to idle right. The choke wants to either idle
>WAY
>> > high...or so low it stalls.
>> > Question is what carb would you recommend replacing it with and what do
>I do
>> > with all this emissions crap like the charcoal canister....or does it
>> > matter...I think there are a few hoses coming from the carb that have to
>do
>> > with emissions. Any write ups would be great.
>> > Allen
>

Jeepster

Almost sounds like the choke is not opening all the way and sometimes
you are stuck on the high idle cam and when it comes off the cam it
drops too curb idle which might be set low.

I would also take a look at the solvac and see what it is doing during
these idle problems.

Just a guess ...... experts here correct me if wrong.

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:26:36 GMT, <ABanks5@columbus.rr.com> wrote:

>Thanks Mike.
>The funny thing is when I bought it in September...it idled excellent. I
>mean the thing ran great and I was so suprised because I've heard horror
>stories about the 258s. Now that the weather has gotten colder...the idle on
>this thing is crap...mostly runs WAY too high and on occasion will click
>down and run so low it'll stall. Even when it's completely warmed up...does
>the same thing. And doesn't the Weber replacement do away with the 02 sensor
>and computer?? Not sure on that one. I'm looking for the most simple swap
>possible..the MC2100 looks a bit troublesome for a guy who knows jack about
>carbs (ME!).
>Allen
>
>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>news:3FEC73FA.84973ACA@sympatico.ca...
>> You have a butchered wiring and computer setup that is going to run like
>> crap until you get it sorted out no matter what carb is on it.
>>
>> Stock the idle mix and half those vacuum lines and solenoids are
>> computer controlled.
>>
>> With no O2 sensor, the computer is stuck in limp home mode which clamps
>> down on the mix and the timing advance.
>>
>> I would recommend you at least put the computer out of your misery so
>> you can start to make sense of the rest of the system.
>>
>> That Carter carb you have on there is a very nice carb when it is tuned
>> up and clean. Mine goes like a scalded cat with just an Accel coil and
>> stock everything else. (no computer) I get a nice 19 US mpg and she
>> will easily bury the spedo in 4th.
>>
>> Carbs do take some tweaking to get them to run right. That goes for all
>> carbs, so if you can't get the Carter running, not likely you will have
>> any luck with any other carb either.
>>
>> Carbs are also supposed to get a kit put in them every time you change
>> your spark plugs according to the CJ owners manual. Do you know when
>> the last kit went in yours or when the last plugs went in? Kits are
>> less than $20.00 and are easy to put in.
>>
>> Too bad you don't live close to me. I have helped 3 people put in kits
>> and kill the computers in the last couple months.
>>
>> Things like the charcoal canister, PCV, EGR and air filter flaps are all
>> needed parts you cannot take off. The rest is mostly junk.
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>
>> ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
>> >
>> > My 83 CJ7 has given up the ghost on the carb. I'm pretty sure it's a
>> > carter....anyway to definitively tell? Anyway..it's a 258 stock
>motor...the
>> > only bad thing is the PO disconnected the 02 sensor during a YJ tub
>> > swap..there are a few things I can't find at the moment when it comes to
>> > wiring inside the engine bay. The motor runs great when tooling down the
>> > road but I can't get it to idle right. The choke wants to either idle
>WAY
>> > high...or so low it stalls.
>> > Question is what carb would you recommend replacing it with and what do
>I do
>> > with all this emissions crap like the charcoal canister....or does it
>> > matter...I think there are a few hoses coming from the carb that have to
>do
>> > with emissions. Any write ups would be great.
>> > Allen
>

Jeepster

Almost sounds like the choke is not opening all the way and sometimes
you are stuck on the high idle cam and when it comes off the cam it
drops too curb idle which might be set low.

I would also take a look at the solvac and see what it is doing during
these idle problems.

Just a guess ...... experts here correct me if wrong.

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:26:36 GMT, <ABanks5@columbus.rr.com> wrote:

>Thanks Mike.
>The funny thing is when I bought it in September...it idled excellent. I
>mean the thing ran great and I was so suprised because I've heard horror
>stories about the 258s. Now that the weather has gotten colder...the idle on
>this thing is crap...mostly runs WAY too high and on occasion will click
>down and run so low it'll stall. Even when it's completely warmed up...does
>the same thing. And doesn't the Weber replacement do away with the 02 sensor
>and computer?? Not sure on that one. I'm looking for the most simple swap
>possible..the MC2100 looks a bit troublesome for a guy who knows jack about
>carbs (ME!).
>Allen
>
>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>news:3FEC73FA.84973ACA@sympatico.ca...
>> You have a butchered wiring and computer setup that is going to run like
>> crap until you get it sorted out no matter what carb is on it.
>>
>> Stock the idle mix and half those vacuum lines and solenoids are
>> computer controlled.
>>
>> With no O2 sensor, the computer is stuck in limp home mode which clamps
>> down on the mix and the timing advance.
>>
>> I would recommend you at least put the computer out of your misery so
>> you can start to make sense of the rest of the system.
>>
>> That Carter carb you have on there is a very nice carb when it is tuned
>> up and clean. Mine goes like a scalded cat with just an Accel coil and
>> stock everything else. (no computer) I get a nice 19 US mpg and she
>> will easily bury the spedo in 4th.
>>
>> Carbs do take some tweaking to get them to run right. That goes for all
>> carbs, so if you can't get the Carter running, not likely you will have
>> any luck with any other carb either.
>>
>> Carbs are also supposed to get a kit put in them every time you change
>> your spark plugs according to the CJ owners manual. Do you know when
>> the last kit went in yours or when the last plugs went in? Kits are
>> less than $20.00 and are easy to put in.
>>
>> Too bad you don't live close to me. I have helped 3 people put in kits
>> and kill the computers in the last couple months.
>>
>> Things like the charcoal canister, PCV, EGR and air filter flaps are all
>> needed parts you cannot take off. The rest is mostly junk.
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>
>> ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
>> >
>> > My 83 CJ7 has given up the ghost on the carb. I'm pretty sure it's a
>> > carter....anyway to definitively tell? Anyway..it's a 258 stock
>motor...the
>> > only bad thing is the PO disconnected the 02 sensor during a YJ tub
>> > swap..there are a few things I can't find at the moment when it comes to
>> > wiring inside the engine bay. The motor runs great when tooling down the
>> > road but I can't get it to idle right. The choke wants to either idle
>WAY
>> > high...or so low it stalls.
>> > Question is what carb would you recommend replacing it with and what do
>I do
>> > with all this emissions crap like the charcoal canister....or does it
>> > matter...I think there are a few hoses coming from the carb that have to
>do
>> > with emissions. Any write ups would be great.
>> > Allen
>

Mike Romain

ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3FEC8E20.DB1D8ADC@sympatico.ca...
> > ..... We put our beers on the air
> > filter and it didn't shake or bubble them when turning 750 rpm....
>
> Excellent scientific test!!!

Works every time!

BUT! If I need to set it on for the emissions sniffer, I have to lean
it enough that the beer will start growing bubbles on the side of the
bottle for the sniffer to like it. The long 6 is supposed to be a bit
of a 'thumper' engine. It needs bubbles in the beer to pass....

If it just purrs at 750 rpm, it will be running a bit too rich for the
sniffer.

>
> >
> > Clean it and put a kit in with every major tune or every set of plugs,
> > change the gas filter every year and make sure it is in right side up.
> > It has to be level with the center outlet going to the carb and the
> > return line hooked to the top outlet. The return line has to be on top
> > or gas will just syphon back to the tank making it not want to cold
> > start.
>
> What kit are you referring to Mike? And is that something Autozone will
> carry? I'm getting ready to do that procedure you refered to this afternoon.
> You don't have a schematic of the carb do you? I'm trying to picture this
> choke linkage and what side of the carb it's on. Says something about
> drilling out a rivet...and without removing the carb I take it that it is on
> the driver's side.
> Thanks again!
> Allen

Yes autozone should have the kits. Just a basic Carb Kit. They come
with all the gaskets and a new float needle and seat and a new
accelerator pump.

The linkage that gets sticky is the plastic step thingie that the choke
uses for the fast idle. It just plain gets dirty on the pivot point.
WD40 is a good cleaner, but a carb cleaner spray is better, the real
cleaner doesn't leave junk behind to attract more dirt.

If you don't have to unscrew some of the parts to clean them when
installing a kit, then DON'T!

A lot of the adjustments given in the instructions for the kit are not
needed. Most of the carb can come apart without unscrewing settings
just to clean it.

Some things you must unscrew like the idle Jets, but you just count the
turns as you screw all of them in tight 'before' screwing them all the
way out. That way when you put it back, you just screw it all the way
tight again and back off the screws the same as they were.

As you commented, it worked great a year ago, now it is time for a clean
and it will work great at the same settings as last time it was cleaned.

Trying to mess with settings to make up for dirt is a big pain in the
butt, it will never stay stable and isn't the right way to do it except
for a trail fix to keep you running.

I wouldn't mind trying to help you put a kit in it via email. I do have
some photos here showing the parts and what not to mess with or I can
take a digital photo of some directions I have here to refer to.

Mike

>
> >>
> > ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Mike.
> > > The funny thing is when I bought it in September...it idled excellent. I
> > > mean the thing ran great and I was so suprised because I've heard horror
> > > stories about the 258s. Now that the weather has gotten colder...the
> idle on
> > > this thing is crap...mostly runs WAY too high and on occasion will click
> > > down and run so low it'll stall. Even when it's completely warmed
> up...does
> > > the same thing. And doesn't the Weber replacement do away with the 02
> sensor
> > > and computer?? Not sure on that one. I'm looking for the most simple
> swap
> > > possible..the MC2100 looks a bit troublesome for a guy who knows jack
> about
> > > carbs (ME!).
> > > Allen
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:3FEC73FA.84973ACA@sympatico.ca...
> > > > You have a butchered wiring and computer setup that is going to run
> like
> > > > crap until you get it sorted out no matter what carb is on it.
> > > >
> > > > Stock the idle mix and half those vacuum lines and solenoids are
> > > > computer controlled.
> > > >
> > > > With no O2 sensor, the computer is stuck in limp home mode which
> clamps
> > > > down on the mix and the timing advance.
> > > >
> > > > I would recommend you at least put the computer out of your misery so
> > > > you can start to make sense of the rest of the system.
> > > >
> > > > That Carter carb you have on there is a very nice carb when it is
> tuned
> > > > up and clean. Mine goes like a scalded cat with just an Accel coil
> and
> > > > stock everything else. (no computer) I get a nice 19 US mpg and she
> > > > will easily bury the spedo in 4th.
> > > >
> > > > Carbs do take some tweaking to get them to run right. That goes for
> all
> > > > carbs, so if you can't get the Carter running, not likely you will
> have
> > > > any luck with any other carb either.
> > > >
> > > > Carbs are also supposed to get a kit put in them every time you change
> > > > your spark plugs according to the CJ owners manual. Do you know when
> > > > the last kit went in yours or when the last plugs went in? Kits are
> > > > less than $20.00 and are easy to put in.
> > > >
> > > > Too bad you don't live close to me. I have helped 3 people put in
> kits
> > > > and kill the computers in the last couple months.
> > > >
> > > > Things like the charcoal canister, PCV, EGR and air filter flaps are
> all
> > > > needed parts you cannot take off. The rest is mostly junk.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > ABanks5@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > My 83 CJ7 has given up the ghost on the carb. I'm pretty sure it's a
> > > > > carter....anyway to definitively tell? Anyway..it's a 258 stock
> > > motor...the
> > > > > only bad thing is the PO disconnected the 02 sensor during a YJ tub
> > > > > swap..there are a few things I can't find at the moment when it
> comes to
> > > > > wiring inside the engine bay. The motor runs great when tooling down
> the
> > > > > road but I can't get it to idle right. The choke wants to either
> idle
> > > WAY
> > > > > high...or so low it stalls.
> > > > > Question is what carb would you recommend replacing it with and what
> do
> > > I do
> > > > > with all this emissions crap like the charcoal canister....or does
> it
> > > > > matter...I think there are a few hoses coming from the carb that
> have to
> > > do
> > > > > with emissions. Any write ups would be great.
> > > > > Allen