Nope, he has already assured us that it is not possible his thousand pound
trailer could ever damage his stock bumper no matter how severe the crash.

"Earle Horton" <nurse--NOSPAM--busters@msn.com> wrote in message
news:43e1c43f$0$8585$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
> You're right, but they're half inch holes. You could put a half inch
> clevis
> and half inch safety chains on this rig. That should be robust enough, to
> rip the bumper right off the vehicle!
>
> Earle
>
> "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
> news:VvfEf.10249$vU2.4318@newsread3.news.atl.earth link.net...
>> Actually, Earle, he has two holes drilled into the horizontal part of his
>> attachment for the hooks, fairly small holes it appears as well, for
>> small
>> hooks. That is what got me going on this thought lane. I also agree
>> with
>> your assessment of the primary purpose of the chains.
>> Tomes
>>
>> "Earle Horton" <nurse--NOSPAM--busters@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:43e11546$0$8575$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
>> > If the OP uses safety chains he will wrap them around the bumper. I
> don't
>> > know how many times I have seen this type of "design". Safety chains
> are
>> > designed to cover operator error, in case the part that goes over the
> ball
>> > pops off, from not being tightened enough or from a shock load it can't
>> > stand. They are not designed to mitigate weaknesses in the actual
>> > hitch
>> > "design".
>> >
>> > Earle
>> >
>> > "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
>> > news:1v5Ef.9949$vU2.3594@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
>> >> I know, Mike. It's just that the safety chain placement was left out
> of
>> >> this discussion and then I started to think about it when Bill posted
>> > about
>> >> chains. It does sound like he is married to this design; maybe better
>> > chain
>> >> placement, heavy chains **and correspondingly heavy hooks** (I forgot
>> >> that
>> >> part) might mitigate things....
>> >>
>> >> That is a story of yours there that made me laugh in an 'oh fine' kind
> of
>> >> way. I can just imagine that happening. "Will you stop that
> already??"
>> >> Interesting that your trailer tongue had an upward vector like mine
> did.
>> >> Thinking about it further, I am now betting that just about any
>> >> trailer
>> >> crash will do this as the hitting vehicle will be higher than the
> trailer
>> >> frame, pushing down the trailer rear and thus raising the tongue
>> >> spear.
>> >> Gotta have a system that can control this.
>> >>
>> >> It is not just what you are towing, it is also covering what another
>> >> person's mistake can do.
>> >> Tomes
>> >>
>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:43E0C717.F85DE38E@sympatico.ca...
>> >> > You aren't likely to convince him. He 'thinks' he is edUcated so he
>> >> > knows better.
>> >> >
>> >> > I had some short blond in a large pickup ram into my utility trailer
> 3
>> >> > times at a red light before I got out to see what the hell she was
>> >> > doing. She was so short, she couldn't see the trailer and just
>> >> > couldn't
>> >> > understand why she couldn't get closer to me.
>> >> >
>> >> > That one wrecked a 'legal' trailer hitch and the tongue spear also
>> >> > wanted to come up over the bumper. My bumper was a 'real' one so
>> >> > the
>> >> > tongue didn't punch through it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> >> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Tomes wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Richard,
>> >> >> I also note upon looking at the setup again, that the safety chains
>> > would
>> >> >> attach to the same piece of metal that the hitch resides upon. If
> the
>> >> >> weak
>> >> >> link here is the strength of the bumper material, having the chains
>> >> >> attached
>> >> >> to the frame will help.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> A while back in the thread, Mike painted a scenario where you might
> be
>> >> >> rear-ended and the trailer tongue shoots through the Jeep's tub. I
>> > have
>> >> >> actually had this happen to me. I have a pop-up camper towed by a
>> >> >> Sienna.
>> >> >> While waiting to make a left turn, a van hit the back of the
>> >> >> trailer
>> >> >> hard.
>> >> >> Both the other van and the trailer were totaled. The tongue was
>> >> >> indeed
>> >> >> pushed into the back of the Sienna and the force vector was
>> >> >> straight
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> line
>> >> >> with the car's direction and also upward a bit. The upward tilt of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> hitch ball surprised me a bit, but there it was. I had to unbolt
> the
>> >> >> whole
>> >> >> hitch and drop it to disconnect the trailer from the ball, as it
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> buried
>> >> >> up in the upper bumper. The combination of the Class 2 hitch and
> then
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> frame of the Sienna absorbed it all, about $2500 worth of fixed
> damage
>> > to
>> >> >> the Sienna. I speculate that if I had an equivalent of this hitch
>> >> >> design,
>> >> >> it would be likely that the trailer tongue would, in its upward
>> >> >> vector,
>> >> >> pierce the rear of the tub and head for people in the seats.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> At least safety chains attached to the frame instead of the part
> that
>> > is
>> >> >> (connected to at least) part of the failure might mitigate this.
> The
>> >> >> chains
>> >> >> need to be of plenty of girth as well.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In other words, if the bumper is the weak point, and the chains are
>> >> >> attached
>> >> >> to the metal attached to the bumper, the chains provide zero
>> >> >> additional
>> >> >> help. They would only help if the trailer jumps off of the ball.
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> advocate attaching them to the frame.
>> >> >> Tomes
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:Xns975613FB99DCAsomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
>> >> >> > Here is my design for a bumper-mounted Jeep Wrangler TJ trailer
>> > hitch:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://www.truetex.com/jeep_trailer_hitch_bracket.htm
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

 

Nope, he has already assured us that it is not possible his thousand pound
trailer could ever damage his stock bumper no matter how severe the crash.

"Earle Horton" <nurse--NOSPAM--busters@msn.com> wrote in message
news:43e1c43f$0$8585$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
> You're right, but they're half inch holes. You could put a half inch
> clevis
> and half inch safety chains on this rig. That should be robust enough, to
> rip the bumper right off the vehicle!
>
> Earle
>
> "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
> news:VvfEf.10249$vU2.4318@newsread3.news.atl.earth link.net...
>> Actually, Earle, he has two holes drilled into the horizontal part of his
>> attachment for the hooks, fairly small holes it appears as well, for
>> small
>> hooks. That is what got me going on this thought lane. I also agree
>> with
>> your assessment of the primary purpose of the chains.
>> Tomes
>>
>> "Earle Horton" <nurse--NOSPAM--busters@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:43e11546$0$8575$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
>> > If the OP uses safety chains he will wrap them around the bumper. I
> don't
>> > know how many times I have seen this type of "design". Safety chains
> are
>> > designed to cover operator error, in case the part that goes over the
> ball
>> > pops off, from not being tightened enough or from a shock load it can't
>> > stand. They are not designed to mitigate weaknesses in the actual
>> > hitch
>> > "design".
>> >
>> > Earle
>> >
>> > "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
>> > news:1v5Ef.9949$vU2.3594@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
>> >> I know, Mike. It's just that the safety chain placement was left out
> of
>> >> this discussion and then I started to think about it when Bill posted
>> > about
>> >> chains. It does sound like he is married to this design; maybe better
>> > chain
>> >> placement, heavy chains **and correspondingly heavy hooks** (I forgot
>> >> that
>> >> part) might mitigate things....
>> >>
>> >> That is a story of yours there that made me laugh in an 'oh fine' kind
> of
>> >> way. I can just imagine that happening. "Will you stop that
> already??"
>> >> Interesting that your trailer tongue had an upward vector like mine
> did.
>> >> Thinking about it further, I am now betting that just about any
>> >> trailer
>> >> crash will do this as the hitting vehicle will be higher than the
> trailer
>> >> frame, pushing down the trailer rear and thus raising the tongue
>> >> spear.
>> >> Gotta have a system that can control this.
>> >>
>> >> It is not just what you are towing, it is also covering what another
>> >> person's mistake can do.
>> >> Tomes
>> >>
>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:43E0C717.F85DE38E@sympatico.ca...
>> >> > You aren't likely to convince him. He 'thinks' he is edUcated so he
>> >> > knows better.
>> >> >
>> >> > I had some short blond in a large pickup ram into my utility trailer
> 3
>> >> > times at a red light before I got out to see what the hell she was
>> >> > doing. She was so short, she couldn't see the trailer and just
>> >> > couldn't
>> >> > understand why she couldn't get closer to me.
>> >> >
>> >> > That one wrecked a 'legal' trailer hitch and the tongue spear also
>> >> > wanted to come up over the bumper. My bumper was a 'real' one so
>> >> > the
>> >> > tongue didn't punch through it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> >> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Tomes wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Richard,
>> >> >> I also note upon looking at the setup again, that the safety chains
>> > would
>> >> >> attach to the same piece of metal that the hitch resides upon. If
> the
>> >> >> weak
>> >> >> link here is the strength of the bumper material, having the chains
>> >> >> attached
>> >> >> to the frame will help.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> A while back in the thread, Mike painted a scenario where you might
> be
>> >> >> rear-ended and the trailer tongue shoots through the Jeep's tub. I
>> > have
>> >> >> actually had this happen to me. I have a pop-up camper towed by a
>> >> >> Sienna.
>> >> >> While waiting to make a left turn, a van hit the back of the
>> >> >> trailer
>> >> >> hard.
>> >> >> Both the other van and the trailer were totaled. The tongue was
>> >> >> indeed
>> >> >> pushed into the back of the Sienna and the force vector was
>> >> >> straight
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> line
>> >> >> with the car's direction and also upward a bit. The upward tilt of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> hitch ball surprised me a bit, but there it was. I had to unbolt
> the
>> >> >> whole
>> >> >> hitch and drop it to disconnect the trailer from the ball, as it
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> buried
>> >> >> up in the upper bumper. The combination of the Class 2 hitch and
> then
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> frame of the Sienna absorbed it all, about $2500 worth of fixed
> damage
>> > to
>> >> >> the Sienna. I speculate that if I had an equivalent of this hitch
>> >> >> design,
>> >> >> it would be likely that the trailer tongue would, in its upward
>> >> >> vector,
>> >> >> pierce the rear of the tub and head for people in the seats.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> At least safety chains attached to the frame instead of the part
> that
>> > is
>> >> >> (connected to at least) part of the failure might mitigate this.
> The
>> >> >> chains
>> >> >> need to be of plenty of girth as well.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In other words, if the bumper is the weak point, and the chains are
>> >> >> attached
>> >> >> to the metal attached to the bumper, the chains provide zero
>> >> >> additional
>> >> >> help. They would only help if the trailer jumps off of the ball.
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> advocate attaching them to the frame.
>> >> >> Tomes
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:Xns975613FB99DCAsomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
>> >> >> > Here is my design for a bumper-mounted Jeep Wrangler TJ trailer
>> > hitch:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://www.truetex.com/jeep_trailer_hitch_bracket.htm
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

 

Nope, he has already assured us that it is not possible his thousand pound
trailer could ever damage his stock bumper no matter how severe the crash.

"Earle Horton" <nurse--NOSPAM--busters@msn.com> wrote in message
news:43e1c43f$0$8585$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
> You're right, but they're half inch holes. You could put a half inch
> clevis
> and half inch safety chains on this rig. That should be robust enough, to
> rip the bumper right off the vehicle!
>
> Earle
>
> "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
> news:VvfEf.10249$vU2.4318@newsread3.news.atl.earth link.net...
>> Actually, Earle, he has two holes drilled into the horizontal part of his
>> attachment for the hooks, fairly small holes it appears as well, for
>> small
>> hooks. That is what got me going on this thought lane. I also agree
>> with
>> your assessment of the primary purpose of the chains.
>> Tomes
>>
>> "Earle Horton" <nurse--NOSPAM--busters@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:43e11546$0$8575$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
>> > If the OP uses safety chains he will wrap them around the bumper. I
> don't
>> > know how many times I have seen this type of "design". Safety chains
> are
>> > designed to cover operator error, in case the part that goes over the
> ball
>> > pops off, from not being tightened enough or from a shock load it can't
>> > stand. They are not designed to mitigate weaknesses in the actual
>> > hitch
>> > "design".
>> >
>> > Earle
>> >
>> > "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
>> > news:1v5Ef.9949$vU2.3594@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
>> >> I know, Mike. It's just that the safety chain placement was left out
> of
>> >> this discussion and then I started to think about it when Bill posted
>> > about
>> >> chains. It does sound like he is married to this design; maybe better
>> > chain
>> >> placement, heavy chains **and correspondingly heavy hooks** (I forgot
>> >> that
>> >> part) might mitigate things....
>> >>
>> >> That is a story of yours there that made me laugh in an 'oh fine' kind
> of
>> >> way. I can just imagine that happening. "Will you stop that
> already??"
>> >> Interesting that your trailer tongue had an upward vector like mine
> did.
>> >> Thinking about it further, I am now betting that just about any
>> >> trailer
>> >> crash will do this as the hitting vehicle will be higher than the
> trailer
>> >> frame, pushing down the trailer rear and thus raising the tongue
>> >> spear.
>> >> Gotta have a system that can control this.
>> >>
>> >> It is not just what you are towing, it is also covering what another
>> >> person's mistake can do.
>> >> Tomes
>> >>
>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:43E0C717.F85DE38E@sympatico.ca...
>> >> > You aren't likely to convince him. He 'thinks' he is edUcated so he
>> >> > knows better.
>> >> >
>> >> > I had some short blond in a large pickup ram into my utility trailer
> 3
>> >> > times at a red light before I got out to see what the hell she was
>> >> > doing. She was so short, she couldn't see the trailer and just
>> >> > couldn't
>> >> > understand why she couldn't get closer to me.
>> >> >
>> >> > That one wrecked a 'legal' trailer hitch and the tongue spear also
>> >> > wanted to come up over the bumper. My bumper was a 'real' one so
>> >> > the
>> >> > tongue didn't punch through it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> >> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Tomes wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Richard,
>> >> >> I also note upon looking at the setup again, that the safety chains
>> > would
>> >> >> attach to the same piece of metal that the hitch resides upon. If
> the
>> >> >> weak
>> >> >> link here is the strength of the bumper material, having the chains
>> >> >> attached
>> >> >> to the frame will help.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> A while back in the thread, Mike painted a scenario where you might
> be
>> >> >> rear-ended and the trailer tongue shoots through the Jeep's tub. I
>> > have
>> >> >> actually had this happen to me. I have a pop-up camper towed by a
>> >> >> Sienna.
>> >> >> While waiting to make a left turn, a van hit the back of the
>> >> >> trailer
>> >> >> hard.
>> >> >> Both the other van and the trailer were totaled. The tongue was
>> >> >> indeed
>> >> >> pushed into the back of the Sienna and the force vector was
>> >> >> straight
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> line
>> >> >> with the car's direction and also upward a bit. The upward tilt of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> hitch ball surprised me a bit, but there it was. I had to unbolt
> the
>> >> >> whole
>> >> >> hitch and drop it to disconnect the trailer from the ball, as it
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> buried
>> >> >> up in the upper bumper. The combination of the Class 2 hitch and
> then
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> frame of the Sienna absorbed it all, about $2500 worth of fixed
> damage
>> > to
>> >> >> the Sienna. I speculate that if I had an equivalent of this hitch
>> >> >> design,
>> >> >> it would be likely that the trailer tongue would, in its upward
>> >> >> vector,
>> >> >> pierce the rear of the tub and head for people in the seats.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> At least safety chains attached to the frame instead of the part
> that
>> > is
>> >> >> (connected to at least) part of the failure might mitigate this.
> The
>> >> >> chains
>> >> >> need to be of plenty of girth as well.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In other words, if the bumper is the weak point, and the chains are
>> >> >> attached
>> >> >> to the metal attached to the bumper, the chains provide zero
>> >> >> additional
>> >> >> help. They would only help if the trailer jumps off of the ball.
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> advocate attaching them to the frame.
>> >> >> Tomes
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:Xns975613FB99DCAsomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
>> >> >> > Here is my design for a bumper-mounted Jeep Wrangler TJ trailer
>> > hitch:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://www.truetex.com/jeep_trailer_hitch_bracket.htm
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

 

Nope, he has already assured us that it is not possible his thousand pound
trailer could ever damage his stock bumper no matter how severe the crash.

"Earle Horton" <nurse--NOSPAM--busters@msn.com> wrote in message
news:43e1c43f$0$8585$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
> You're right, but they're half inch holes. You could put a half inch
> clevis
> and half inch safety chains on this rig. That should be robust enough, to
> rip the bumper right off the vehicle!
>
> Earle
>
> "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
> news:VvfEf.10249$vU2.4318@newsread3.news.atl.earth link.net...
>> Actually, Earle, he has two holes drilled into the horizontal part of his
>> attachment for the hooks, fairly small holes it appears as well, for
>> small
>> hooks. That is what got me going on this thought lane. I also agree
>> with
>> your assessment of the primary purpose of the chains.
>> Tomes
>>
>> "Earle Horton" <nurse--NOSPAM--busters@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:43e11546$0$8575$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
>> > If the OP uses safety chains he will wrap them around the bumper. I
> don't
>> > know how many times I have seen this type of "design". Safety chains
> are
>> > designed to cover operator error, in case the part that goes over the
> ball
>> > pops off, from not being tightened enough or from a shock load it can't
>> > stand. They are not designed to mitigate weaknesses in the actual
>> > hitch
>> > "design".
>> >
>> > Earle
>> >
>> > "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
>> > news:1v5Ef.9949$vU2.3594@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
>> >> I know, Mike. It's just that the safety chain placement was left out
> of
>> >> this discussion and then I started to think about it when Bill posted
>> > about
>> >> chains. It does sound like he is married to this design; maybe better
>> > chain
>> >> placement, heavy chains **and correspondingly heavy hooks** (I forgot
>> >> that
>> >> part) might mitigate things....
>> >>
>> >> That is a story of yours there that made me laugh in an 'oh fine' kind
> of
>> >> way. I can just imagine that happening. "Will you stop that
> already??"
>> >> Interesting that your trailer tongue had an upward vector like mine
> did.
>> >> Thinking about it further, I am now betting that just about any
>> >> trailer
>> >> crash will do this as the hitting vehicle will be higher than the
> trailer
>> >> frame, pushing down the trailer rear and thus raising the tongue
>> >> spear.
>> >> Gotta have a system that can control this.
>> >>
>> >> It is not just what you are towing, it is also covering what another
>> >> person's mistake can do.
>> >> Tomes
>> >>
>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:43E0C717.F85DE38E@sympatico.ca...
>> >> > You aren't likely to convince him. He 'thinks' he is edUcated so he
>> >> > knows better.
>> >> >
>> >> > I had some short blond in a large pickup ram into my utility trailer
> 3
>> >> > times at a red light before I got out to see what the hell she was
>> >> > doing. She was so short, she couldn't see the trailer and just
>> >> > couldn't
>> >> > understand why she couldn't get closer to me.
>> >> >
>> >> > That one wrecked a 'legal' trailer hitch and the tongue spear also
>> >> > wanted to come up over the bumper. My bumper was a 'real' one so
>> >> > the
>> >> > tongue didn't punch through it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> >> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Tomes wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Richard,
>> >> >> I also note upon looking at the setup again, that the safety chains
>> > would
>> >> >> attach to the same piece of metal that the hitch resides upon. If
> the
>> >> >> weak
>> >> >> link here is the strength of the bumper material, having the chains
>> >> >> attached
>> >> >> to the frame will help.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> A while back in the thread, Mike painted a scenario where you might
> be
>> >> >> rear-ended and the trailer tongue shoots through the Jeep's tub. I
>> > have
>> >> >> actually had this happen to me. I have a pop-up camper towed by a
>> >> >> Sienna.
>> >> >> While waiting to make a left turn, a van hit the back of the
>> >> >> trailer
>> >> >> hard.
>> >> >> Both the other van and the trailer were totaled. The tongue was
>> >> >> indeed
>> >> >> pushed into the back of the Sienna and the force vector was
>> >> >> straight
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> line
>> >> >> with the car's direction and also upward a bit. The upward tilt of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> hitch ball surprised me a bit, but there it was. I had to unbolt
> the
>> >> >> whole
>> >> >> hitch and drop it to disconnect the trailer from the ball, as it
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> buried
>> >> >> up in the upper bumper. The combination of the Class 2 hitch and
> then
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> frame of the Sienna absorbed it all, about $2500 worth of fixed
> damage
>> > to
>> >> >> the Sienna. I speculate that if I had an equivalent of this hitch
>> >> >> design,
>> >> >> it would be likely that the trailer tongue would, in its upward
>> >> >> vector,
>> >> >> pierce the rear of the tub and head for people in the seats.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> At least safety chains attached to the frame instead of the part
> that
>> > is
>> >> >> (connected to at least) part of the failure might mitigate this.
> The
>> >> >> chains
>> >> >> need to be of plenty of girth as well.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In other words, if the bumper is the weak point, and the chains are
>> >> >> attached
>> >> >> to the metal attached to the bumper, the chains provide zero
>> >> >> additional
>> >> >> help. They would only help if the trailer jumps off of the ball.
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> advocate attaching them to the frame.
>> >> >> Tomes
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:Xns975613FB99DCAsomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
>> >> >> > Here is my design for a bumper-mounted Jeep Wrangler TJ trailer
>> > hitch:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://www.truetex.com/jeep_trailer_hitch_bracket.htm
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

 

Nope, he has already assured us that it is not possible his thousand pound
trailer could ever damage his stock bumper no matter how severe the crash.

"Earle Horton" <nurse--NOSPAM--busters@msn.com> wrote in message
news:43e1c43f$0$8585$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
> You're right, but they're half inch holes. You could put a half inch
> clevis
> and half inch safety chains on this rig. That should be robust enough, to
> rip the bumper right off the vehicle!
>
> Earle
>
> "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
> news:VvfEf.10249$vU2.4318@newsread3.news.atl.earth link.net...
>> Actually, Earle, he has two holes drilled into the horizontal part of his
>> attachment for the hooks, fairly small holes it appears as well, for
>> small
>> hooks. That is what got me going on this thought lane. I also agree
>> with
>> your assessment of the primary purpose of the chains.
>> Tomes
>>
>> "Earle Horton" <nurse--NOSPAM--busters@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:43e11546$0$8575$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
>> > If the OP uses safety chains he will wrap them around the bumper. I
> don't
>> > know how many times I have seen this type of "design". Safety chains
> are
>> > designed to cover operator error, in case the part that goes over the
> ball
>> > pops off, from not being tightened enough or from a shock load it can't
>> > stand. They are not designed to mitigate weaknesses in the actual
>> > hitch
>> > "design".
>> >
>> > Earle
>> >
>> > "Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in message
>> > news:1v5Ef.9949$vU2.3594@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
>> >> I know, Mike. It's just that the safety chain placement was left out
> of
>> >> this discussion and then I started to think about it when Bill posted
>> > about
>> >> chains. It does sound like he is married to this design; maybe better
>> > chain
>> >> placement, heavy chains **and correspondingly heavy hooks** (I forgot
>> >> that
>> >> part) might mitigate things....
>> >>
>> >> That is a story of yours there that made me laugh in an 'oh fine' kind
> of
>> >> way. I can just imagine that happening. "Will you stop that
> already??"
>> >> Interesting that your trailer tongue had an upward vector like mine
> did.
>> >> Thinking about it further, I am now betting that just about any
>> >> trailer
>> >> crash will do this as the hitting vehicle will be higher than the
> trailer
>> >> frame, pushing down the trailer rear and thus raising the tongue
>> >> spear.
>> >> Gotta have a system that can control this.
>> >>
>> >> It is not just what you are towing, it is also covering what another
>> >> person's mistake can do.
>> >> Tomes
>> >>
>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:43E0C717.F85DE38E@sympatico.ca...
>> >> > You aren't likely to convince him. He 'thinks' he is edUcated so he
>> >> > knows better.
>> >> >
>> >> > I had some short blond in a large pickup ram into my utility trailer
> 3
>> >> > times at a red light before I got out to see what the hell she was
>> >> > doing. She was so short, she couldn't see the trailer and just
>> >> > couldn't
>> >> > understand why she couldn't get closer to me.
>> >> >
>> >> > That one wrecked a 'legal' trailer hitch and the tongue spear also
>> >> > wanted to come up over the bumper. My bumper was a 'real' one so
>> >> > the
>> >> > tongue didn't punch through it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> >> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Tomes wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Richard,
>> >> >> I also note upon looking at the setup again, that the safety chains
>> > would
>> >> >> attach to the same piece of metal that the hitch resides upon. If
> the
>> >> >> weak
>> >> >> link here is the strength of the bumper material, having the chains
>> >> >> attached
>> >> >> to the frame will help.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> A while back in the thread, Mike painted a scenario where you might
> be
>> >> >> rear-ended and the trailer tongue shoots through the Jeep's tub. I
>> > have
>> >> >> actually had this happen to me. I have a pop-up camper towed by a
>> >> >> Sienna.
>> >> >> While waiting to make a left turn, a van hit the back of the
>> >> >> trailer
>> >> >> hard.
>> >> >> Both the other van and the trailer were totaled. The tongue was
>> >> >> indeed
>> >> >> pushed into the back of the Sienna and the force vector was
>> >> >> straight
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> line
>> >> >> with the car's direction and also upward a bit. The upward tilt of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> hitch ball surprised me a bit, but there it was. I had to unbolt
> the
>> >> >> whole
>> >> >> hitch and drop it to disconnect the trailer from the ball, as it
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> buried
>> >> >> up in the upper bumper. The combination of the Class 2 hitch and
> then
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> frame of the Sienna absorbed it all, about $2500 worth of fixed
> damage
>> > to
>> >> >> the Sienna. I speculate that if I had an equivalent of this hitch
>> >> >> design,
>> >> >> it would be likely that the trailer tongue would, in its upward
>> >> >> vector,
>> >> >> pierce the rear of the tub and head for people in the seats.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> At least safety chains attached to the frame instead of the part
> that
>> > is
>> >> >> (connected to at least) part of the failure might mitigate this.
> The
>> >> >> chains
>> >> >> need to be of plenty of girth as well.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In other words, if the bumper is the weak point, and the chains are
>> >> >> attached
>> >> >> to the metal attached to the bumper, the chains provide zero
>> >> >> additional
>> >> >> help. They would only help if the trailer jumps off of the ball.
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> advocate attaching them to the frame.
>> >> >> Tomes
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:Xns975613FB99DCAsomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
>> >> >> > Here is my design for a bumper-mounted Jeep Wrangler TJ trailer
>> > hitch:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://www.truetex.com/jeep_trailer_hitch_bracket.htm
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

 

"Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
news:Xns975CC716D934someconundrum@216.196.97.131.. .
> Yeah, horrible accidents happen. The weak-hitch-equals-death analysis
> makes a pleasant fictional scene, but unconvincing as to reality.

I'm a pilot, I've written embedded avionics software for commercial
aircraft, and I've written telemetry software for the Space Shuttle... I
have a MS in CS with a minor in EE... I guess that kind of classifies me as
an engineer... If there is a way that one small thing can go wrong and end
up killing someone, it definitely will sooner or later... A weak hitch could
result in a minor wreck developing into something much worse... Maybe the
initial fault of the wreck might be someone else's, but a poor design on
your part could definitely be argued as contributing to the severity of an
accident... At the very least, you might end up with damage to your vehicle
on a minor accident that you wouldn't with a more structurally sound bumper
/ hitch attachment point... Personally, I think that you should go with a 2"
receiver hitch since it gives you a lot more options for attachments other
than just a trailer hitch... Cargo carriers, bike racks, etc... Design it
right and you have a good attachment point for tow hooks so that you can get
extracted from places that you shouldn't have gone without a winch...

 

"Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
news:Xns975CC716D934someconundrum@216.196.97.131.. .
> Yeah, horrible accidents happen. The weak-hitch-equals-death analysis
> makes a pleasant fictional scene, but unconvincing as to reality.

I'm a pilot, I've written embedded avionics software for commercial
aircraft, and I've written telemetry software for the Space Shuttle... I
have a MS in CS with a minor in EE... I guess that kind of classifies me as
an engineer... If there is a way that one small thing can go wrong and end
up killing someone, it definitely will sooner or later... A weak hitch could
result in a minor wreck developing into something much worse... Maybe the
initial fault of the wreck might be someone else's, but a poor design on
your part could definitely be argued as contributing to the severity of an
accident... At the very least, you might end up with damage to your vehicle
on a minor accident that you wouldn't with a more structurally sound bumper
/ hitch attachment point... Personally, I think that you should go with a 2"
receiver hitch since it gives you a lot more options for attachments other
than just a trailer hitch... Cargo carriers, bike racks, etc... Design it
right and you have a good attachment point for tow hooks so that you can get
extracted from places that you shouldn't have gone without a winch...

 

"Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
news:Xns975CC716D934someconundrum@216.196.97.131.. .
> Yeah, horrible accidents happen. The weak-hitch-equals-death analysis
> makes a pleasant fictional scene, but unconvincing as to reality.

I'm a pilot, I've written embedded avionics software for commercial
aircraft, and I've written telemetry software for the Space Shuttle... I
have a MS in CS with a minor in EE... I guess that kind of classifies me as
an engineer... If there is a way that one small thing can go wrong and end
up killing someone, it definitely will sooner or later... A weak hitch could
result in a minor wreck developing into something much worse... Maybe the
initial fault of the wreck might be someone else's, but a poor design on
your part could definitely be argued as contributing to the severity of an
accident... At the very least, you might end up with damage to your vehicle
on a minor accident that you wouldn't with a more structurally sound bumper
/ hitch attachment point... Personally, I think that you should go with a 2"
receiver hitch since it gives you a lot more options for attachments other
than just a trailer hitch... Cargo carriers, bike racks, etc... Design it
right and you have a good attachment point for tow hooks so that you can get
extracted from places that you shouldn't have gone without a winch...

 

"billy ray" <billy_ray@fuseSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:7a88c$43e1c9e3$4831b233$31587@FUSE.NET...
> Nope, he has already assured us that it is not possible his thousand pound
> trailer could ever damage his stock bumper no matter how severe the crash.

It's interesting that he is probably spending more time defending his
somewhat lacking design than it would take him to design it right...

 

"billy ray" <billy_ray@fuseSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:7a88c$43e1c9e3$4831b233$31587@FUSE.NET...
> Nope, he has already assured us that it is not possible his thousand pound
> trailer could ever damage his stock bumper no matter how severe the crash.

It's interesting that he is probably spending more time defending his
somewhat lacking design than it would take him to design it right...