cantrelm writes:

> ... people in here have tried to educate you on this matter ...

They have educated me as to their casual opinions in conflict with concrete
experience. Normal Usenet flux.

I'd be surprised if as you assert Georgia doesn't allow towing with rope.
But I couldn't find the relevant statute, maybe you can:

http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl_codes_detail.pl

 

The link below is to a page in the Florida Fish and Wildlife
Conservation website. I will assume, with the known limitations therein,
that it may be taken as an 'official" publication

Please see paragraphs 4 & 5 in section 1
Please see paragraph 5 in section 2
Please see illustration 2
http://www.boat-ed.com/fl/course/p2-4_trailering.htm

You hitch design may be legal in Florida.... assuming that you can get the
data from the DC engineering departments for "the weight rating of the
bumper. "

However the factory manual shows the only approved (by DC) methods of
attaching a towbar. In my XJ manual it is section 13 pages 7 & 8.

Does someone have a Wrangler manual that can check and post the appropriate
pages in the Frames & Bumpers section?


"Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
news:Xns975C8D242D32Csomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
> cantrelm writes:
>
>> ... people in here have tried to educate you on this matter ...
>
> They have educated me as to their casual opinions in conflict with
> concrete
> experience. Normal Usenet flux.
>
> I'd be surprised if as you assert Georgia doesn't allow towing with rope.
> But I couldn't find the relevant statute, maybe you can:
>
> http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl_codes_detail.pl

 

The link below is to a page in the Florida Fish and Wildlife
Conservation website. I will assume, with the known limitations therein,
that it may be taken as an 'official" publication

Please see paragraphs 4 & 5 in section 1
Please see paragraph 5 in section 2
Please see illustration 2
http://www.boat-ed.com/fl/course/p2-4_trailering.htm

You hitch design may be legal in Florida.... assuming that you can get the
data from the DC engineering departments for "the weight rating of the
bumper. "

However the factory manual shows the only approved (by DC) methods of
attaching a towbar. In my XJ manual it is section 13 pages 7 & 8.

Does someone have a Wrangler manual that can check and post the appropriate
pages in the Frames & Bumpers section?


"Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
news:Xns975C8D242D32Csomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
> cantrelm writes:
>
>> ... people in here have tried to educate you on this matter ...
>
> They have educated me as to their casual opinions in conflict with
> concrete
> experience. Normal Usenet flux.
>
> I'd be surprised if as you assert Georgia doesn't allow towing with rope.
> But I couldn't find the relevant statute, maybe you can:
>
> http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl_codes_detail.pl

 

The link below is to a page in the Florida Fish and Wildlife
Conservation website. I will assume, with the known limitations therein,
that it may be taken as an 'official" publication

Please see paragraphs 4 & 5 in section 1
Please see paragraph 5 in section 2
Please see illustration 2
http://www.boat-ed.com/fl/course/p2-4_trailering.htm

You hitch design may be legal in Florida.... assuming that you can get the
data from the DC engineering departments for "the weight rating of the
bumper. "

However the factory manual shows the only approved (by DC) methods of
attaching a towbar. In my XJ manual it is section 13 pages 7 & 8.

Does someone have a Wrangler manual that can check and post the appropriate
pages in the Frames & Bumpers section?


"Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
news:Xns975C8D242D32Csomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
> cantrelm writes:
>
>> ... people in here have tried to educate you on this matter ...
>
> They have educated me as to their casual opinions in conflict with
> concrete
> experience. Normal Usenet flux.
>
> I'd be surprised if as you assert Georgia doesn't allow towing with rope.
> But I couldn't find the relevant statute, maybe you can:
>
> http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl_codes_detail.pl

 

I agree fully with Bruce.
The 3/8" x 4" angle is plenty sturdy enough. That is not what everyone is
complaining about. It is the 3/32" sheet you have attached it too that is
not strong enough for a load.....Remember that a chain is only as strong as
its weakest link and the weakest link hear is the 3/32" stock bumper!

But hey that is okay..... I just hope you sleep well after that bumper rips
through and your trailer and angle hitch go veering off and hurt
someone......

Get over yourself and stop being such a cheapskate! You seem to take pride
in your cheapness and stupidity.......

Tom


"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:oe3vt19q32chmka2a0kerguqmqnne6qn5b@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:12:12 -0800, Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >Richard J Kinch proclaimed:
> >> FrankW writes:
>
> >>>You may get charged.
> >>
> >> Debunked earlier in this thread.
> >
> >Rebunked. And even more happy instance, you can have your heinie sued
> >off even if you weren't cited for excessive carelessness and wanton
> >stupidity.
>
> Rebunked agreed - There's nothing wrong with the design of the hitch
> plate you made itself, it looks plenty strong for the intended
> purpose, but the structural integrity of the bumper you /attached it
> to/ is a complete unknown.
>
> Since the Feds stopped requiring bumpers to survive 2-1/2 and 5 MPH
> crash tests car and light truck bumpers are pretty much beauty items
> only, and some (especially the ones not designed as a trailer hitch)
> are virtually stamped from tissue paper and then chromed. You
> admitted it yourself that they're made to crumple - and you can't
> count on strength in towing from a known weak structure.
>
> I would strongly suggest you go get a proper receiver hitch made
> that is tucked under the car, and remove the drawbar whenever you
> aren't using it - and if you do get hit in the rear, that tissue paper
> bumper will be the item hanging out there to get hit and try to absorb
> the forces. (Not.) But hey, it's your liability, not mine.
>
> Nothing will likely happen to you legally now, the cops don't go
> around inspecting people's trailer hitches on a whim - until the hitch
> fails.
>
> If and when it fails while on a public street or highway, and the
> trailer wanders off and kills someone or does some serious property
> damage, they are going to send out an officer (local or state,
> depending) to investigate and write the reports. And if the LEO sees
> a mangled mess on the back of the car that let go, they'll probably
> (as the old saw goes) "throw the book at you".
>
> The Officers can easily reconstruct the accident scene - there are
> trained Major Accident Investigation Teams that do nothing but this,
> every day. They figure how fast everyone was going, do the math on
> the forces involved on the bumper in the accident, and prove that the
> weak link was the hitch that let go. They can prove that a properly
> designed hitch would have held under 2X to 4X (or more) of the forces
> involved in that incident - so whoever made that hitch is at fault.
>
> In California, this would be one of the brickbats in said book:
>
> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d13/vc29003.htm
>
> >Hitch, Coupling Device or Connection, or Tow Dolly
> >
> >29003. (a) Every hitch or coupling device used as a means of
> >attaching the towed and towing vehicles shall be properly and
> >securely mounted and be structurally adequate for the weight
> >drawn. The mounting of the hitch or coupling device on the
> >towing and towed vehicle shall include sufficient reinforcement
> >or bracing of the frame to provide sufficient strength and
> >rigidity to prevent undue distortion of the frame.
> >
> >(b) The drawbar, tongue, or other connection between the towing
> >and towed vehicles shall be securely attached and structurally
> >adequate for the weight drawn.
> >
> >(c) The raised end of any motor vehicle being transported by
> >another motor vehicle using a tow dolly shall be secured to
> >the tow dolly by two separate chains, cables, or equivalent
> >devices adequate to prevent shifting or separation of the
> >towed vehicle and the tow dolly.
> >
> >Amended Ch. 708, Stats. 1983. Effective January 1, 1984.
>
> Yes, you are in Florida - but most vehicle codes are similar.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--
> --
> Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
> Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
> 5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
> Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

 

I agree fully with Bruce.
The 3/8" x 4" angle is plenty sturdy enough. That is not what everyone is
complaining about. It is the 3/32" sheet you have attached it too that is
not strong enough for a load.....Remember that a chain is only as strong as
its weakest link and the weakest link hear is the 3/32" stock bumper!

But hey that is okay..... I just hope you sleep well after that bumper rips
through and your trailer and angle hitch go veering off and hurt
someone......

Get over yourself and stop being such a cheapskate! You seem to take pride
in your cheapness and stupidity.......

Tom


"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:oe3vt19q32chmka2a0kerguqmqnne6qn5b@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:12:12 -0800, Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >Richard J Kinch proclaimed:
> >> FrankW writes:
>
> >>>You may get charged.
> >>
> >> Debunked earlier in this thread.
> >
> >Rebunked. And even more happy instance, you can have your heinie sued
> >off even if you weren't cited for excessive carelessness and wanton
> >stupidity.
>
> Rebunked agreed - There's nothing wrong with the design of the hitch
> plate you made itself, it looks plenty strong for the intended
> purpose, but the structural integrity of the bumper you /attached it
> to/ is a complete unknown.
>
> Since the Feds stopped requiring bumpers to survive 2-1/2 and 5 MPH
> crash tests car and light truck bumpers are pretty much beauty items
> only, and some (especially the ones not designed as a trailer hitch)
> are virtually stamped from tissue paper and then chromed. You
> admitted it yourself that they're made to crumple - and you can't
> count on strength in towing from a known weak structure.
>
> I would strongly suggest you go get a proper receiver hitch made
> that is tucked under the car, and remove the drawbar whenever you
> aren't using it - and if you do get hit in the rear, that tissue paper
> bumper will be the item hanging out there to get hit and try to absorb
> the forces. (Not.) But hey, it's your liability, not mine.
>
> Nothing will likely happen to you legally now, the cops don't go
> around inspecting people's trailer hitches on a whim - until the hitch
> fails.
>
> If and when it fails while on a public street or highway, and the
> trailer wanders off and kills someone or does some serious property
> damage, they are going to send out an officer (local or state,
> depending) to investigate and write the reports. And if the LEO sees
> a mangled mess on the back of the car that let go, they'll probably
> (as the old saw goes) "throw the book at you".
>
> The Officers can easily reconstruct the accident scene - there are
> trained Major Accident Investigation Teams that do nothing but this,
> every day. They figure how fast everyone was going, do the math on
> the forces involved on the bumper in the accident, and prove that the
> weak link was the hitch that let go. They can prove that a properly
> designed hitch would have held under 2X to 4X (or more) of the forces
> involved in that incident - so whoever made that hitch is at fault.
>
> In California, this would be one of the brickbats in said book:
>
> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d13/vc29003.htm
>
> >Hitch, Coupling Device or Connection, or Tow Dolly
> >
> >29003. (a) Every hitch or coupling device used as a means of
> >attaching the towed and towing vehicles shall be properly and
> >securely mounted and be structurally adequate for the weight
> >drawn. The mounting of the hitch or coupling device on the
> >towing and towed vehicle shall include sufficient reinforcement
> >or bracing of the frame to provide sufficient strength and
> >rigidity to prevent undue distortion of the frame.
> >
> >(b) The drawbar, tongue, or other connection between the towing
> >and towed vehicles shall be securely attached and structurally
> >adequate for the weight drawn.
> >
> >(c) The raised end of any motor vehicle being transported by
> >another motor vehicle using a tow dolly shall be secured to
> >the tow dolly by two separate chains, cables, or equivalent
> >devices adequate to prevent shifting or separation of the
> >towed vehicle and the tow dolly.
> >
> >Amended Ch. 708, Stats. 1983. Effective January 1, 1984.
>
> Yes, you are in Florida - but most vehicle codes are similar.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--
> --
> Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
> Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
> 5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
> Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

 

I agree fully with Bruce.
The 3/8" x 4" angle is plenty sturdy enough. That is not what everyone is
complaining about. It is the 3/32" sheet you have attached it too that is
not strong enough for a load.....Remember that a chain is only as strong as
its weakest link and the weakest link hear is the 3/32" stock bumper!

But hey that is okay..... I just hope you sleep well after that bumper rips
through and your trailer and angle hitch go veering off and hurt
someone......

Get over yourself and stop being such a cheapskate! You seem to take pride
in your cheapness and stupidity.......

Tom


"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:oe3vt19q32chmka2a0kerguqmqnne6qn5b@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:12:12 -0800, Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >Richard J Kinch proclaimed:
> >> FrankW writes:
>
> >>>You may get charged.
> >>
> >> Debunked earlier in this thread.
> >
> >Rebunked. And even more happy instance, you can have your heinie sued
> >off even if you weren't cited for excessive carelessness and wanton
> >stupidity.
>
> Rebunked agreed - There's nothing wrong with the design of the hitch
> plate you made itself, it looks plenty strong for the intended
> purpose, but the structural integrity of the bumper you /attached it
> to/ is a complete unknown.
>
> Since the Feds stopped requiring bumpers to survive 2-1/2 and 5 MPH
> crash tests car and light truck bumpers are pretty much beauty items
> only, and some (especially the ones not designed as a trailer hitch)
> are virtually stamped from tissue paper and then chromed. You
> admitted it yourself that they're made to crumple - and you can't
> count on strength in towing from a known weak structure.
>
> I would strongly suggest you go get a proper receiver hitch made
> that is tucked under the car, and remove the drawbar whenever you
> aren't using it - and if you do get hit in the rear, that tissue paper
> bumper will be the item hanging out there to get hit and try to absorb
> the forces. (Not.) But hey, it's your liability, not mine.
>
> Nothing will likely happen to you legally now, the cops don't go
> around inspecting people's trailer hitches on a whim - until the hitch
> fails.
>
> If and when it fails while on a public street or highway, and the
> trailer wanders off and kills someone or does some serious property
> damage, they are going to send out an officer (local or state,
> depending) to investigate and write the reports. And if the LEO sees
> a mangled mess on the back of the car that let go, they'll probably
> (as the old saw goes) "throw the book at you".
>
> The Officers can easily reconstruct the accident scene - there are
> trained Major Accident Investigation Teams that do nothing but this,
> every day. They figure how fast everyone was going, do the math on
> the forces involved on the bumper in the accident, and prove that the
> weak link was the hitch that let go. They can prove that a properly
> designed hitch would have held under 2X to 4X (or more) of the forces
> involved in that incident - so whoever made that hitch is at fault.
>
> In California, this would be one of the brickbats in said book:
>
> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d13/vc29003.htm
>
> >Hitch, Coupling Device or Connection, or Tow Dolly
> >
> >29003. (a) Every hitch or coupling device used as a means of
> >attaching the towed and towing vehicles shall be properly and
> >securely mounted and be structurally adequate for the weight
> >drawn. The mounting of the hitch or coupling device on the
> >towing and towed vehicle shall include sufficient reinforcement
> >or bracing of the frame to provide sufficient strength and
> >rigidity to prevent undue distortion of the frame.
> >
> >(b) The drawbar, tongue, or other connection between the towing
> >and towed vehicles shall be securely attached and structurally
> >adequate for the weight drawn.
> >
> >(c) The raised end of any motor vehicle being transported by
> >another motor vehicle using a tow dolly shall be secured to
> >the tow dolly by two separate chains, cables, or equivalent
> >devices adequate to prevent shifting or separation of the
> >towed vehicle and the tow dolly.
> >
> >Amended Ch. 708, Stats. 1983. Effective January 1, 1984.
>
> Yes, you are in Florida - but most vehicle codes are similar.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--
> --
> Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
> Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
> 5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
> Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

 

Richard,

I will respect that you have made all the proper calculations on your boat
and trailer weights and have for your education know the strength parameters
and limitations of the Jeep Wrangler bumper attachment system.

That being said many of the people replying to you have years or decades of
practical experience and many, myself included, have seen vehicles with
their rear bumpers twisted or pulled off by what they were towing.

Imagine, if you will, a scene we all hope will never happen where you are in
a courtroom with your ------sheet defending your calculations and
workmanship. The county prosecutor then calls a representative from Reese,
Hidden Hitch, Valley, etc and asks them to display all the hitches they
manufacture that fit the Wrangler.

The will come in on carts, of course, as they weigh in at 20+ pounds. The
drawbars themselves are 3/4 inch steel the crossbars 1.25 or 2 inch steel
pipe or tube, and the attachment plates while only 1/4 inch thick are 4-6
inches wide and attached by 1/2 inch grade 5 or 8 bolts. He will then pick
up what is left of your bumper and twist it in his bare hands.

Are you wrong in an engineering point of view? No, but the jury is going to
send you to prison anyway because they won't understand why the industry
standard is 10x and yours wasn't.

Then you get to go home and explain, again, to your bride why her youngest
child died. All the ------sheets in the world won't convince her it was
unforeseeable and unpreventable..

Please do not let your professional pride prevent you from installing a
hitch that is vastly in excess of your requirements. There are 6 listed on
eBay at this moment with bids of less than $30. (search term: Wrangler
hitch)

"Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
news:Xns975C8D242D32Csomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
> cantrelm writes:
>
>> ... people in here have tried to educate you on this matter ...
>
> They have educated me as to their casual opinions in conflict with
> concrete
> experience. Normal Usenet flux.
>
> I'd be surprised if as you assert Georgia doesn't allow towing with rope.
> But I couldn't find the relevant statute, maybe you can:
>
> http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl_codes_detail.pl

 

Richard,

I will respect that you have made all the proper calculations on your boat
and trailer weights and have for your education know the strength parameters
and limitations of the Jeep Wrangler bumper attachment system.

That being said many of the people replying to you have years or decades of
practical experience and many, myself included, have seen vehicles with
their rear bumpers twisted or pulled off by what they were towing.

Imagine, if you will, a scene we all hope will never happen where you are in
a courtroom with your ------sheet defending your calculations and
workmanship. The county prosecutor then calls a representative from Reese,
Hidden Hitch, Valley, etc and asks them to display all the hitches they
manufacture that fit the Wrangler.

The will come in on carts, of course, as they weigh in at 20+ pounds. The
drawbars themselves are 3/4 inch steel the crossbars 1.25 or 2 inch steel
pipe or tube, and the attachment plates while only 1/4 inch thick are 4-6
inches wide and attached by 1/2 inch grade 5 or 8 bolts. He will then pick
up what is left of your bumper and twist it in his bare hands.

Are you wrong in an engineering point of view? No, but the jury is going to
send you to prison anyway because they won't understand why the industry
standard is 10x and yours wasn't.

Then you get to go home and explain, again, to your bride why her youngest
child died. All the ------sheets in the world won't convince her it was
unforeseeable and unpreventable..

Please do not let your professional pride prevent you from installing a
hitch that is vastly in excess of your requirements. There are 6 listed on
eBay at this moment with bids of less than $30. (search term: Wrangler
hitch)

"Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
news:Xns975C8D242D32Csomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
> cantrelm writes:
>
>> ... people in here have tried to educate you on this matter ...
>
> They have educated me as to their casual opinions in conflict with
> concrete
> experience. Normal Usenet flux.
>
> I'd be surprised if as you assert Georgia doesn't allow towing with rope.
> But I couldn't find the relevant statute, maybe you can:
>
> http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl_codes_detail.pl

 

Richard,

I will respect that you have made all the proper calculations on your boat
and trailer weights and have for your education know the strength parameters
and limitations of the Jeep Wrangler bumper attachment system.

That being said many of the people replying to you have years or decades of
practical experience and many, myself included, have seen vehicles with
their rear bumpers twisted or pulled off by what they were towing.

Imagine, if you will, a scene we all hope will never happen where you are in
a courtroom with your ------sheet defending your calculations and
workmanship. The county prosecutor then calls a representative from Reese,
Hidden Hitch, Valley, etc and asks them to display all the hitches they
manufacture that fit the Wrangler.

The will come in on carts, of course, as they weigh in at 20+ pounds. The
drawbars themselves are 3/4 inch steel the crossbars 1.25 or 2 inch steel
pipe or tube, and the attachment plates while only 1/4 inch thick are 4-6
inches wide and attached by 1/2 inch grade 5 or 8 bolts. He will then pick
up what is left of your bumper and twist it in his bare hands.

Are you wrong in an engineering point of view? No, but the jury is going to
send you to prison anyway because they won't understand why the industry
standard is 10x and yours wasn't.

Then you get to go home and explain, again, to your bride why her youngest
child died. All the ------sheets in the world won't convince her it was
unforeseeable and unpreventable..

Please do not let your professional pride prevent you from installing a
hitch that is vastly in excess of your requirements. There are 6 listed on
eBay at this moment with bids of less than $30. (search term: Wrangler
hitch)

"Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
news:Xns975C8D242D32Csomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
> cantrelm writes:
>
>> ... people in here have tried to educate you on this matter ...
>
> They have educated me as to their casual opinions in conflict with
> concrete
> experience. Normal Usenet flux.
>
> I'd be surprised if as you assert Georgia doesn't allow towing with rope.
> But I couldn't find the relevant statute, maybe you can:
>
> http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl_codes_detail.pl