Building Jeep, or any other, frames
03-01-2006, 06:19 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Building Jeep, or any other, frames
Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
AC 43-13-1B et seq.
If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
should buy your frame commercially.
Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
AC 43-13-1B et seq.
If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
should buy your frame commercially.
Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
03-01-2006, 06:54 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Building Jeep, or any other, frames
Please Jesus, have him attempt to fly his Deutz powered air frame.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Bret Ludwig wrote:
>
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Bret Ludwig wrote:
>
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
03-01-2006, 06:54 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Building Jeep, or any other, frames
Please Jesus, have him attempt to fly his Deutz powered air frame.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Bret Ludwig wrote:
>
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Bret Ludwig wrote:
>
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
03-01-2006, 06:54 PM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Building Jeep, or any other, frames
Please Jesus, have him attempt to fly his Deutz powered air frame.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Bret Ludwig wrote:
>
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Bret Ludwig wrote:
>
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
03-01-2006, 06:54 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Building Jeep, or any other, frames
Please Jesus, have him attempt to fly his Deutz powered air frame.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Bret Ludwig wrote:
>
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Bret Ludwig wrote:
>
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
03-02-2006, 12:32 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Building Jeep, or any other, frames
India would be the place to set up a retro-capitalist after market frame
sweat shop, it seems. Working off the back of my envelope and using
wildly different sources for loosely-defined welder's wages:
(2004) USofA US$28,900 (welder, mean wages)
(2005) Mexico US$16,400 (welder, average legal minimum)
(2005) China US$ 2,300 (generic skilled worker)
(2005) India US$ 1,900 (ordinary welder)
Allowing for differences in worker expectations, skill levels, machines,
supply lines and so on, and ignoring the wild differences in employee
overhead costs, let's assume it takes a man-week to make the frame. In
the US that's about $560 for labor. Mexico costs $315. In India that's
$36.
Bret Ludwig wrote:
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
>
sweat shop, it seems. Working off the back of my envelope and using
wildly different sources for loosely-defined welder's wages:
(2004) USofA US$28,900 (welder, mean wages)
(2005) Mexico US$16,400 (welder, average legal minimum)
(2005) China US$ 2,300 (generic skilled worker)
(2005) India US$ 1,900 (ordinary welder)
Allowing for differences in worker expectations, skill levels, machines,
supply lines and so on, and ignoring the wild differences in employee
overhead costs, let's assume it takes a man-week to make the frame. In
the US that's about $560 for labor. Mexico costs $315. In India that's
$36.
Bret Ludwig wrote:
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
>
03-02-2006, 12:32 PM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Building Jeep, or any other, frames
India would be the place to set up a retro-capitalist after market frame
sweat shop, it seems. Working off the back of my envelope and using
wildly different sources for loosely-defined welder's wages:
(2004) USofA US$28,900 (welder, mean wages)
(2005) Mexico US$16,400 (welder, average legal minimum)
(2005) China US$ 2,300 (generic skilled worker)
(2005) India US$ 1,900 (ordinary welder)
Allowing for differences in worker expectations, skill levels, machines,
supply lines and so on, and ignoring the wild differences in employee
overhead costs, let's assume it takes a man-week to make the frame. In
the US that's about $560 for labor. Mexico costs $315. In India that's
$36.
Bret Ludwig wrote:
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
>
sweat shop, it seems. Working off the back of my envelope and using
wildly different sources for loosely-defined welder's wages:
(2004) USofA US$28,900 (welder, mean wages)
(2005) Mexico US$16,400 (welder, average legal minimum)
(2005) China US$ 2,300 (generic skilled worker)
(2005) India US$ 1,900 (ordinary welder)
Allowing for differences in worker expectations, skill levels, machines,
supply lines and so on, and ignoring the wild differences in employee
overhead costs, let's assume it takes a man-week to make the frame. In
the US that's about $560 for labor. Mexico costs $315. In India that's
$36.
Bret Ludwig wrote:
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
>
03-02-2006, 12:32 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Building Jeep, or any other, frames
India would be the place to set up a retro-capitalist after market frame
sweat shop, it seems. Working off the back of my envelope and using
wildly different sources for loosely-defined welder's wages:
(2004) USofA US$28,900 (welder, mean wages)
(2005) Mexico US$16,400 (welder, average legal minimum)
(2005) China US$ 2,300 (generic skilled worker)
(2005) India US$ 1,900 (ordinary welder)
Allowing for differences in worker expectations, skill levels, machines,
supply lines and so on, and ignoring the wild differences in employee
overhead costs, let's assume it takes a man-week to make the frame. In
the US that's about $560 for labor. Mexico costs $315. In India that's
$36.
Bret Ludwig wrote:
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
>
sweat shop, it seems. Working off the back of my envelope and using
wildly different sources for loosely-defined welder's wages:
(2004) USofA US$28,900 (welder, mean wages)
(2005) Mexico US$16,400 (welder, average legal minimum)
(2005) China US$ 2,300 (generic skilled worker)
(2005) India US$ 1,900 (ordinary welder)
Allowing for differences in worker expectations, skill levels, machines,
supply lines and so on, and ignoring the wild differences in employee
overhead costs, let's assume it takes a man-week to make the frame. In
the US that's about $560 for labor. Mexico costs $315. In India that's
$36.
Bret Ludwig wrote:
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
>
03-02-2006, 12:32 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Building Jeep, or any other, frames
India would be the place to set up a retro-capitalist after market frame
sweat shop, it seems. Working off the back of my envelope and using
wildly different sources for loosely-defined welder's wages:
(2004) USofA US$28,900 (welder, mean wages)
(2005) Mexico US$16,400 (welder, average legal minimum)
(2005) China US$ 2,300 (generic skilled worker)
(2005) India US$ 1,900 (ordinary welder)
Allowing for differences in worker expectations, skill levels, machines,
supply lines and so on, and ignoring the wild differences in employee
overhead costs, let's assume it takes a man-week to make the frame. In
the US that's about $560 for labor. Mexico costs $315. In India that's
$36.
Bret Ludwig wrote:
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
>
sweat shop, it seems. Working off the back of my envelope and using
wildly different sources for loosely-defined welder's wages:
(2004) USofA US$28,900 (welder, mean wages)
(2005) Mexico US$16,400 (welder, average legal minimum)
(2005) China US$ 2,300 (generic skilled worker)
(2005) India US$ 1,900 (ordinary welder)
Allowing for differences in worker expectations, skill levels, machines,
supply lines and so on, and ignoring the wild differences in employee
overhead costs, let's assume it takes a man-week to make the frame. In
the US that's about $560 for labor. Mexico costs $315. In India that's
$36.
Bret Ludwig wrote:
> Attention should be paid to the literature the EAA puts out for people
> welding their own steel aircraft structures, including their reprint of
> AC 43-13-1B et seq.
>
> If the frames are $1800 commercially and use $300 of steel and would
> take a hobbyist 40 hrs to fabricate, that's 1500/40= 37.50/hr. If you
> make $37.51 an hour after tax then from a pure economic standpoint you
> should buy your frame commercially.
>
> Add in the educational value you get from the welding practice (I
> forgot to add rod and gas in, unless they are in the steel bill) and
> subtract the risk factor if your homemade frame breaks.
>
> You'd think someone would have them made in Mexico or
> something.....shhh, maybe we shouldn't give them any ideas...on second
> thought if they make them there it will keep the Mexicans home, that's
> worth something too! I mean I like Mexicans fine...in Mexico that is.
>
03-02-2006, 02:46 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Building Jeep, or any other, frames
In actuality you also have to consider the cost of the equipment,
supply of materials, worker skills, etc, etc, etc. India is actually
not a terribly cheap place to manufacture because these costs, plus
baksheesh, etc. compensate for low wages. India is bureaucratic beyond
belief, and corrupt. The smart Indians, rather than fix these problems,
simply come here. Most are decent people but 1) not everyone can come
here, and, 2) the more people of non-European backgrounds, mentalities,
and bioinclination come here the more here will become like there! Just
like Californicators who "emigrate" and make Tucson, Portland, Seattle,
like L.A., only on a far deeper scale.
India does make Jeeps now-Mahindras-and while EPA and DOT mean you
couldn't import them as vehicles you could import frames, sheetmetal,
etc. for "restoration" purposes. However the manufacturer may refuse to
sell theose parts as they may fear loss of license from DCX if one is
needed.
Still, the point is, in volume the price could come way down.
Incidentally I do not think most people really should build their own
Jeep frame: I think Matkins and other aftermarket products are worth
the money. And no, no way in hell am I going to fly a Deutz.
supply of materials, worker skills, etc, etc, etc. India is actually
not a terribly cheap place to manufacture because these costs, plus
baksheesh, etc. compensate for low wages. India is bureaucratic beyond
belief, and corrupt. The smart Indians, rather than fix these problems,
simply come here. Most are decent people but 1) not everyone can come
here, and, 2) the more people of non-European backgrounds, mentalities,
and bioinclination come here the more here will become like there! Just
like Californicators who "emigrate" and make Tucson, Portland, Seattle,
like L.A., only on a far deeper scale.
India does make Jeeps now-Mahindras-and while EPA and DOT mean you
couldn't import them as vehicles you could import frames, sheetmetal,
etc. for "restoration" purposes. However the manufacturer may refuse to
sell theose parts as they may fear loss of license from DCX if one is
needed.
Still, the point is, in volume the price could come way down.
Incidentally I do not think most people really should build their own
Jeep frame: I think Matkins and other aftermarket products are worth
the money. And no, no way in hell am I going to fly a Deutz.