Which is the best Full sized model jeep?
 

I have a CJ7 and was wondering about the best year/model for full sized or
full cabin jeeps such as wagoneer or cher-a-kee, etc. I don't know much
about them. Looking for the same simplicity that a CJ7 has or close to it.


thanks,

Re: Which is the best Full sized model jeep?
 

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:30kfetF31ok58U1@uni-berlin.de...
> I have a CJ7 and was wondering about the best year/model for full sized or
> full cabin jeeps such as wagoneer or cher-a-kee, etc. I don't know much
> about them. Looking for the same simplicity that a CJ7 has or close to
it.
>
> thanks,
>

I can't think of one year being better than another. What matters most is
the condition and what you want for mechanicals. Most have the AMC 360 with
either a TH400 or a 727 trans. Transfer cases vary depending on year, from
the Dana units to the Quadratrac, NP208, NP228, etc. Usually a D44 front
and an AMC20 or D44 rear. The Cherokee came in a wide track model which can
handle bigger tires. They're all big, sturdy, early 60's technology that
get about 12 mpg. 14 with a tune-up and a tailwind. The bodies seem to
wrap around the frame more and you sit lower than other trucks. With a 4"
lift and 33" tires I still have room to mount lights on the roof and fit it
through my 7' garage door. Couldn't do that with my Jimmy.

FSJ's are starting to get popular again, with the aftermarket reproducing
alot of NLA parts. The FSJ-List on Yahoo is where most of the big Jeep guys
talk. Just don't call a Grand Cherokee a full sized Jeep. ;-)

--

Re: Which is the best Full sized model jeep?
 

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:30kfetF31ok58U1@uni-berlin.de...
> I have a CJ7 and was wondering about the best year/model for full sized or
> full cabin jeeps such as wagoneer or cher-a-kee, etc. I don't know much
> about them. Looking for the same simplicity that a CJ7 has or close to
it.
>
> thanks,
>

I can't think of one year being better than another. What matters most is
the condition and what you want for mechanicals. Most have the AMC 360 with
either a TH400 or a 727 trans. Transfer cases vary depending on year, from
the Dana units to the Quadratrac, NP208, NP228, etc. Usually a D44 front
and an AMC20 or D44 rear. The Cherokee came in a wide track model which can
handle bigger tires. They're all big, sturdy, early 60's technology that
get about 12 mpg. 14 with a tune-up and a tailwind. The bodies seem to
wrap around the frame more and you sit lower than other trucks. With a 4"
lift and 33" tires I still have room to mount lights on the roof and fit it
through my 7' garage door. Couldn't do that with my Jimmy.

FSJ's are starting to get popular again, with the aftermarket reproducing
alot of NLA parts. The FSJ-List on Yahoo is where most of the big Jeep guys
talk. Just don't call a Grand Cherokee a full sized Jeep. ;-)

--

Re: Which is the best Full sized model jeep?
 

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:30kfetF31ok58U1@uni-berlin.de...
> I have a CJ7 and was wondering about the best year/model for full sized or
> full cabin jeeps such as wagoneer or cher-a-kee, etc. I don't know much
> about them. Looking for the same simplicity that a CJ7 has or close to
it.
>
> thanks,
>

I can't think of one year being better than another. What matters most is
the condition and what you want for mechanicals. Most have the AMC 360 with
either a TH400 or a 727 trans. Transfer cases vary depending on year, from
the Dana units to the Quadratrac, NP208, NP228, etc. Usually a D44 front
and an AMC20 or D44 rear. The Cherokee came in a wide track model which can
handle bigger tires. They're all big, sturdy, early 60's technology that
get about 12 mpg. 14 with a tune-up and a tailwind. The bodies seem to
wrap around the frame more and you sit lower than other trucks. With a 4"
lift and 33" tires I still have room to mount lights on the roof and fit it
through my 7' garage door. Couldn't do that with my Jimmy.

FSJ's are starting to get popular again, with the aftermarket reproducing
alot of NLA parts. The FSJ-List on Yahoo is where most of the big Jeep guys
talk. Just don't call a Grand Cherokee a full sized Jeep. ;-)

--

Re: Which is the best Full sized model jeep?
 

There are several FSJ web sites out there. Two I have see are as follows.
Probably more if you search..
http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/index.asp
or
http://www.ifsja.org/index.shtml
Paul D

"fuji" <waiting@the.airport> wrote in message
news:vKKdnXlm4byQqDjcRVn-vg@giganews.com...
> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> news:30kfetF31ok58U1@uni-berlin.de...
>> I have a CJ7 and was wondering about the best year/model for full sized
>> or
>> full cabin jeeps such as wagoneer or cher-a-kee, etc. I don't know much
>> about them. Looking for the same simplicity that a CJ7 has or close to
> it.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>
> I can't think of one year being better than another. What matters most is
> the condition and what you want for mechanicals. Most have the AMC 360
> with
> either a TH400 or a 727 trans. Transfer cases vary depending on year,
> from
> the Dana units to the Quadratrac, NP208, NP228, etc. Usually a D44 front
> and an AMC20 or D44 rear. The Cherokee came in a wide track model which
> can
> handle bigger tires. They're all big, sturdy, early 60's technology that
> get about 12 mpg. 14 with a tune-up and a tailwind. The bodies seem to
> wrap around the frame more and you sit lower than other trucks. With a 4"
> lift and 33" tires I still have room to mount lights on the roof and fit
> it
> through my 7' garage door. Couldn't do that with my Jimmy.
>
> FSJ's are starting to get popular again, with the aftermarket reproducing
> alot of NLA parts. The FSJ-List on Yahoo is where most of the big Jeep
> guys
> talk. Just don't call a Grand Cherokee a full sized Jeep. ;-)
>
> --
>
>

Re: Which is the best Full sized model jeep?
 

There are several FSJ web sites out there. Two I have see are as follows.
Probably more if you search..
http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/index.asp
or
http://www.ifsja.org/index.shtml
Paul D

"fuji" <waiting@the.airport> wrote in message
news:vKKdnXlm4byQqDjcRVn-vg@giganews.com...
> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> news:30kfetF31ok58U1@uni-berlin.de...
>> I have a CJ7 and was wondering about the best year/model for full sized
>> or
>> full cabin jeeps such as wagoneer or cher-a-kee, etc. I don't know much
>> about them. Looking for the same simplicity that a CJ7 has or close to
> it.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>
> I can't think of one year being better than another. What matters most is
> the condition and what you want for mechanicals. Most have the AMC 360
> with
> either a TH400 or a 727 trans. Transfer cases vary depending on year,
> from
> the Dana units to the Quadratrac, NP208, NP228, etc. Usually a D44 front
> and an AMC20 or D44 rear. The Cherokee came in a wide track model which
> can
> handle bigger tires. They're all big, sturdy, early 60's technology that
> get about 12 mpg. 14 with a tune-up and a tailwind. The bodies seem to
> wrap around the frame more and you sit lower than other trucks. With a 4"
> lift and 33" tires I still have room to mount lights on the roof and fit
> it
> through my 7' garage door. Couldn't do that with my Jimmy.
>
> FSJ's are starting to get popular again, with the aftermarket reproducing
> alot of NLA parts. The FSJ-List on Yahoo is where most of the big Jeep
> guys
> talk. Just don't call a Grand Cherokee a full sized Jeep. ;-)
>
> --
>
>

Re: Which is the best Full sized model jeep?
 

There are several FSJ web sites out there. Two I have see are as follows.
Probably more if you search..
http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/index.asp
or
http://www.ifsja.org/index.shtml
Paul D

"fuji" <waiting@the.airport> wrote in message
news:vKKdnXlm4byQqDjcRVn-vg@giganews.com...
> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> news:30kfetF31ok58U1@uni-berlin.de...
>> I have a CJ7 and was wondering about the best year/model for full sized
>> or
>> full cabin jeeps such as wagoneer or cher-a-kee, etc. I don't know much
>> about them. Looking for the same simplicity that a CJ7 has or close to
> it.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>
> I can't think of one year being better than another. What matters most is
> the condition and what you want for mechanicals. Most have the AMC 360
> with
> either a TH400 or a 727 trans. Transfer cases vary depending on year,
> from
> the Dana units to the Quadratrac, NP208, NP228, etc. Usually a D44 front
> and an AMC20 or D44 rear. The Cherokee came in a wide track model which
> can
> handle bigger tires. They're all big, sturdy, early 60's technology that
> get about 12 mpg. 14 with a tune-up and a tailwind. The bodies seem to
> wrap around the frame more and you sit lower than other trucks. With a 4"
> lift and 33" tires I still have room to mount lights on the roof and fit
> it
> through my 7' garage door. Couldn't do that with my Jimmy.
>
> FSJ's are starting to get popular again, with the aftermarket reproducing
> alot of NLA parts. The FSJ-List on Yahoo is where most of the big Jeep
> guys
> talk. Just don't call a Grand Cherokee a full sized Jeep. ;-)
>
> --
>
>

Re: Which is the best Full sized model jeep?
 

I don't know which is the best one, but I can tell you about my
experiences trying to trail ready an '87 Grand Wagoneer.
First of all, parts are tougher to find, but not impossible. If you
check out the IFSJA site, there are some good tech articles and some old
parts links.

You best bet for parts is BJ's Offroad out of Gig Harbour, Washington or
somewhere is Georgia. I have ordered a 6" lift kit as well as front an
rear bumpers. They are probably the most help for these kinds of parts.

Regarding the machines themselves, there are a few inherent problems
that seem to crop up...
1. The 360 V8's are prone to vacuum lakes, rough idle and running rich
and there seems to be various solutions. The vehicle that I purchased
experienced much of this and I found that removing a lot of the
emissions equipment solved a lot of that. If you are in an area that
requires the original emissions equipment, you can still solve the
problem, but it seems to be more expensive.
2. The air conditioning systems seem to always leak so you are looking
at converting the system from R-12 to R-134A. While I haven't done this
yet, I was quoted a cost of around $180.00 CAN to complete it here in
Alberta.
3. There is a commonly accepted view that the average owner of a jeep
can expect to replace every inch of the wiring over the ownership time
of the vehicle. While I haven't experienced much of this yet, I have
some minor door/interior light issues that need to be addressed. In that
light, the electric door locks on the vehicle are at least $85.00/door
USD for replacement actuators. The IFSJA site had an article on a cheap
fix using current 2-wire actuators from local alarm installers. I
checked it out here and found them for $20.00 CAN per door and I
installed 4 in about 3 hours.
4. The power rear windows are always a problem however there are fixes
listed, as well as replacement motors available.
5. There is a cheap upgrade to the Ford Electronic Ignition system which
I have done and works well.
6. The engagement of the transfer case into 4Lo is different than most
other Jeeps but I have had no problems with it.

The good points about the Grand Wagoneers is that the 86's or 98's on
had Dana 44's both front and rear. They use a 6 on 5.5 bolt pattern
similar to that of the 3/4 ton Chevy's. There is room galore under the
vehicle and more room inside than a non Full-size Jeep, however, they
turn on a dime.

While they are a great vehicle, if you find one that is in good shape,
they tended to be a "soccer mom" vehicle near the end so you have the
leather seats, the power windows, door locks and mirrors and the full
time 4WD, much of which can and do need to be looked at throughout the
life of the vehicle. I had an old time Jeeper sit in my Grand Wagoner
the other day and he commented that it was too nice to take in the bush.
I know that when I get the 6" lift kit, the front and back bumpers, the
12000 lb. Warn Winch and the 35" MTR's, oh yeah and a couple of lockers,
I'll be wheeling with the best of them through most of the trails.

Greg
1987 Grand Wagoner



William Oliveri wrote:
> I have a CJ7 and was wondering about the best year/model for full sized or
> full cabin jeeps such as wagoneer or cher-a-kee, etc. I don't know much
> about them. Looking for the same simplicity that a CJ7 has or close to it.
>
>
> thanks,
>
>

Re: Which is the best Full sized model jeep?
 

I don't know which is the best one, but I can tell you about my
experiences trying to trail ready an '87 Grand Wagoneer.
First of all, parts are tougher to find, but not impossible. If you
check out the IFSJA site, there are some good tech articles and some old
parts links.

You best bet for parts is BJ's Offroad out of Gig Harbour, Washington or
somewhere is Georgia. I have ordered a 6" lift kit as well as front an
rear bumpers. They are probably the most help for these kinds of parts.

Regarding the machines themselves, there are a few inherent problems
that seem to crop up...
1. The 360 V8's are prone to vacuum lakes, rough idle and running rich
and there seems to be various solutions. The vehicle that I purchased
experienced much of this and I found that removing a lot of the
emissions equipment solved a lot of that. If you are in an area that
requires the original emissions equipment, you can still solve the
problem, but it seems to be more expensive.
2. The air conditioning systems seem to always leak so you are looking
at converting the system from R-12 to R-134A. While I haven't done this
yet, I was quoted a cost of around $180.00 CAN to complete it here in
Alberta.
3. There is a commonly accepted view that the average owner of a jeep
can expect to replace every inch of the wiring over the ownership time
of the vehicle. While I haven't experienced much of this yet, I have
some minor door/interior light issues that need to be addressed. In that
light, the electric door locks on the vehicle are at least $85.00/door
USD for replacement actuators. The IFSJA site had an article on a cheap
fix using current 2-wire actuators from local alarm installers. I
checked it out here and found them for $20.00 CAN per door and I
installed 4 in about 3 hours.
4. The power rear windows are always a problem however there are fixes
listed, as well as replacement motors available.
5. There is a cheap upgrade to the Ford Electronic Ignition system which
I have done and works well.
6. The engagement of the transfer case into 4Lo is different than most
other Jeeps but I have had no problems with it.

The good points about the Grand Wagoneers is that the 86's or 98's on
had Dana 44's both front and rear. They use a 6 on 5.5 bolt pattern
similar to that of the 3/4 ton Chevy's. There is room galore under the
vehicle and more room inside than a non Full-size Jeep, however, they
turn on a dime.

While they are a great vehicle, if you find one that is in good shape,
they tended to be a "soccer mom" vehicle near the end so you have the
leather seats, the power windows, door locks and mirrors and the full
time 4WD, much of which can and do need to be looked at throughout the
life of the vehicle. I had an old time Jeeper sit in my Grand Wagoner
the other day and he commented that it was too nice to take in the bush.
I know that when I get the 6" lift kit, the front and back bumpers, the
12000 lb. Warn Winch and the 35" MTR's, oh yeah and a couple of lockers,
I'll be wheeling with the best of them through most of the trails.

Greg
1987 Grand Wagoner



William Oliveri wrote:
> I have a CJ7 and was wondering about the best year/model for full sized or
> full cabin jeeps such as wagoneer or cher-a-kee, etc. I don't know much
> about them. Looking for the same simplicity that a CJ7 has or close to it.
>
>
> thanks,
>
>

Re: Which is the best Full sized model jeep?
 

I don't know which is the best one, but I can tell you about my
experiences trying to trail ready an '87 Grand Wagoneer.
First of all, parts are tougher to find, but not impossible. If you
check out the IFSJA site, there are some good tech articles and some old
parts links.

You best bet for parts is BJ's Offroad out of Gig Harbour, Washington or
somewhere is Georgia. I have ordered a 6" lift kit as well as front an
rear bumpers. They are probably the most help for these kinds of parts.

Regarding the machines themselves, there are a few inherent problems
that seem to crop up...
1. The 360 V8's are prone to vacuum lakes, rough idle and running rich
and there seems to be various solutions. The vehicle that I purchased
experienced much of this and I found that removing a lot of the
emissions equipment solved a lot of that. If you are in an area that
requires the original emissions equipment, you can still solve the
problem, but it seems to be more expensive.
2. The air conditioning systems seem to always leak so you are looking
at converting the system from R-12 to R-134A. While I haven't done this
yet, I was quoted a cost of around $180.00 CAN to complete it here in
Alberta.
3. There is a commonly accepted view that the average owner of a jeep
can expect to replace every inch of the wiring over the ownership time
of the vehicle. While I haven't experienced much of this yet, I have
some minor door/interior light issues that need to be addressed. In that
light, the electric door locks on the vehicle are at least $85.00/door
USD for replacement actuators. The IFSJA site had an article on a cheap
fix using current 2-wire actuators from local alarm installers. I
checked it out here and found them for $20.00 CAN per door and I
installed 4 in about 3 hours.
4. The power rear windows are always a problem however there are fixes
listed, as well as replacement motors available.
5. There is a cheap upgrade to the Ford Electronic Ignition system which
I have done and works well.
6. The engagement of the transfer case into 4Lo is different than most
other Jeeps but I have had no problems with it.

The good points about the Grand Wagoneers is that the 86's or 98's on
had Dana 44's both front and rear. They use a 6 on 5.5 bolt pattern
similar to that of the 3/4 ton Chevy's. There is room galore under the
vehicle and more room inside than a non Full-size Jeep, however, they
turn on a dime.

While they are a great vehicle, if you find one that is in good shape,
they tended to be a "soccer mom" vehicle near the end so you have the
leather seats, the power windows, door locks and mirrors and the full
time 4WD, much of which can and do need to be looked at throughout the
life of the vehicle. I had an old time Jeeper sit in my Grand Wagoner
the other day and he commented that it was too nice to take in the bush.
I know that when I get the 6" lift kit, the front and back bumpers, the
12000 lb. Warn Winch and the 35" MTR's, oh yeah and a couple of lockers,
I'll be wheeling with the best of them through most of the trails.

Greg
1987 Grand Wagoner



William Oliveri wrote:
> I have a CJ7 and was wondering about the best year/model for full sized or
> full cabin jeeps such as wagoneer or cher-a-kee, etc. I don't know much
> about them. Looking for the same simplicity that a CJ7 has or close to it.
>
>
> thanks,
>
>