What about the claims I have seen at some sites about welded frames being
stronger then OEM? One company even compared it to Nascar as they require
welded frames for safety. I'm just trying to figure which way to go. I cant
case harden a frame either but I thought that's what the heavier gage metal
was for.

Just thoughts.


"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4403EF98.9CC1FE6A@***.net...
> The key for me is do you have the equipment to make mandrel bends?
> Like it is against the law to weld to commercial truck frames, tells a
> lot of us hot rodders something. Like it is better to start with 1927
> Model T rails than to weld some channels together. Even back then they
> were case harden, which welding destroys.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>

 

> The key for me is do you have the equipment to make mandrel bends?
> Like it is against the law to weld to commercial truck frames, tells a
> lot of us hot rodders something. Like it is better to start with 1927
> Model T rails than to weld some channels together. Even back then they
> were case harden, which welding destroys.

Lots of guys are building frames of 4x2 square tubing and welding short
sections together to make arches and bends. Someone posted a thread with
pics on a Pirate Board last week, but the search function is down for a few
days. My Cherokee frame project will involve cutting one frame to make
donor panels to weld onto anothe making it fully boxed. The stock 74
Cherokee frame is not heat treated, so it can be welded, drilled, etc with
no problems, unlike commercial truck frames. I don't know that Jeep ever
used a heat treated frame.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

 

> The key for me is do you have the equipment to make mandrel bends?
> Like it is against the law to weld to commercial truck frames, tells a
> lot of us hot rodders something. Like it is better to start with 1927
> Model T rails than to weld some channels together. Even back then they
> were case harden, which welding destroys.

Lots of guys are building frames of 4x2 square tubing and welding short
sections together to make arches and bends. Someone posted a thread with
pics on a Pirate Board last week, but the search function is down for a few
days. My Cherokee frame project will involve cutting one frame to make
donor panels to weld onto anothe making it fully boxed. The stock 74
Cherokee frame is not heat treated, so it can be welded, drilled, etc with
no problems, unlike commercial truck frames. I don't know that Jeep ever
used a heat treated frame.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

 

> The key for me is do you have the equipment to make mandrel bends?
> Like it is against the law to weld to commercial truck frames, tells a
> lot of us hot rodders something. Like it is better to start with 1927
> Model T rails than to weld some channels together. Even back then they
> were case harden, which welding destroys.

Lots of guys are building frames of 4x2 square tubing and welding short
sections together to make arches and bends. Someone posted a thread with
pics on a Pirate Board last week, but the search function is down for a few
days. My Cherokee frame project will involve cutting one frame to make
donor panels to weld onto anothe making it fully boxed. The stock 74
Cherokee frame is not heat treated, so it can be welded, drilled, etc with
no problems, unlike commercial truck frames. I don't know that Jeep ever
used a heat treated frame.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

 

> The key for me is do you have the equipment to make mandrel bends?
> Like it is against the law to weld to commercial truck frames, tells a
> lot of us hot rodders something. Like it is better to start with 1927
> Model T rails than to weld some channels together. Even back then they
> were case harden, which welding destroys.

Lots of guys are building frames of 4x2 square tubing and welding short
sections together to make arches and bends. Someone posted a thread with
pics on a Pirate Board last week, but the search function is down for a few
days. My Cherokee frame project will involve cutting one frame to make
donor panels to weld onto anothe making it fully boxed. The stock 74
Cherokee frame is not heat treated, so it can be welded, drilled, etc with
no problems, unlike commercial truck frames. I don't know that Jeep ever
used a heat treated frame.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

 

If you knew anything about metalurgy, you would know that retangular
tubing is a hot rolled product with low carbon, typically 1008 steel
with a yield up around 55kpsi. This material is not casehardened, is not
alloy, has only minor issues with HAZ from welding. On the other hand,
my shop used to produce race frames made from 4130 tube and heat treated
the complete frame to over 200kpsi Your vaunted OTR truck frames are a
higher carbon material that is heat treated up to the 80kpsi to 100kpsi
range. Allows the manufacturer to shave a few pounds but decreases the
fatigue life expectancy.

If I were to build a stock LOOKING Jeep frame, I'd use the hot rolled
rectangular tubing, slight bends made in the hydrualic press, major
bends done as cut and weld. Result would be slighly heavier than the
original stock frame, should be around 2 to 3 times more torsionaly
rigid. I havn't really thought it through whether I'd use .120" wall or
..187" wall, it would depend on my choice of engines. Finshed frame in
..120" wall would run about 125 pounds without the center crossmember.



L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> The key for me is do you have the equipment to make mandrel bends?
> Like it is against the law to weld to commercial truck frames, tells a
> lot of us hot rodders something. Like it is better to start with 1927
> Model T rails than to weld some channels together. Even back then they
> were case harden, which welding destroys.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>
>>We were talking about replacing a tin worm frame with a new frame.
>>Quadratec has rectangular tube frames running about $1800 (depending on
>>model) $300 worth of steel and 40 hours to get to the same point.
>>
>>Would I spend $1800 for a new frame, plus $2000 for a fiberglass body,
>>and $xx for all the rest, of course you won't get your money out.

 

If you knew anything about metalurgy, you would know that retangular
tubing is a hot rolled product with low carbon, typically 1008 steel
with a yield up around 55kpsi. This material is not casehardened, is not
alloy, has only minor issues with HAZ from welding. On the other hand,
my shop used to produce race frames made from 4130 tube and heat treated
the complete frame to over 200kpsi Your vaunted OTR truck frames are a
higher carbon material that is heat treated up to the 80kpsi to 100kpsi
range. Allows the manufacturer to shave a few pounds but decreases the
fatigue life expectancy.

If I were to build a stock LOOKING Jeep frame, I'd use the hot rolled
rectangular tubing, slight bends made in the hydrualic press, major
bends done as cut and weld. Result would be slighly heavier than the
original stock frame, should be around 2 to 3 times more torsionaly
rigid. I havn't really thought it through whether I'd use .120" wall or
..187" wall, it would depend on my choice of engines. Finshed frame in
..120" wall would run about 125 pounds without the center crossmember.



L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> The key for me is do you have the equipment to make mandrel bends?
> Like it is against the law to weld to commercial truck frames, tells a
> lot of us hot rodders something. Like it is better to start with 1927
> Model T rails than to weld some channels together. Even back then they
> were case harden, which welding destroys.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>
>>We were talking about replacing a tin worm frame with a new frame.
>>Quadratec has rectangular tube frames running about $1800 (depending on
>>model) $300 worth of steel and 40 hours to get to the same point.
>>
>>Would I spend $1800 for a new frame, plus $2000 for a fiberglass body,
>>and $xx for all the rest, of course you won't get your money out.

 

If you knew anything about metalurgy, you would know that retangular
tubing is a hot rolled product with low carbon, typically 1008 steel
with a yield up around 55kpsi. This material is not casehardened, is not
alloy, has only minor issues with HAZ from welding. On the other hand,
my shop used to produce race frames made from 4130 tube and heat treated
the complete frame to over 200kpsi Your vaunted OTR truck frames are a
higher carbon material that is heat treated up to the 80kpsi to 100kpsi
range. Allows the manufacturer to shave a few pounds but decreases the
fatigue life expectancy.

If I were to build a stock LOOKING Jeep frame, I'd use the hot rolled
rectangular tubing, slight bends made in the hydrualic press, major
bends done as cut and weld. Result would be slighly heavier than the
original stock frame, should be around 2 to 3 times more torsionaly
rigid. I havn't really thought it through whether I'd use .120" wall or
..187" wall, it would depend on my choice of engines. Finshed frame in
..120" wall would run about 125 pounds without the center crossmember.



L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> The key for me is do you have the equipment to make mandrel bends?
> Like it is against the law to weld to commercial truck frames, tells a
> lot of us hot rodders something. Like it is better to start with 1927
> Model T rails than to weld some channels together. Even back then they
> were case harden, which welding destroys.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>
>>We were talking about replacing a tin worm frame with a new frame.
>>Quadratec has rectangular tube frames running about $1800 (depending on
>>model) $300 worth of steel and 40 hours to get to the same point.
>>
>>Would I spend $1800 for a new frame, plus $2000 for a fiberglass body,
>>and $xx for all the rest, of course you won't get your money out.

 

If you knew anything about metalurgy, you would know that retangular
tubing is a hot rolled product with low carbon, typically 1008 steel
with a yield up around 55kpsi. This material is not casehardened, is not
alloy, has only minor issues with HAZ from welding. On the other hand,
my shop used to produce race frames made from 4130 tube and heat treated
the complete frame to over 200kpsi Your vaunted OTR truck frames are a
higher carbon material that is heat treated up to the 80kpsi to 100kpsi
range. Allows the manufacturer to shave a few pounds but decreases the
fatigue life expectancy.

If I were to build a stock LOOKING Jeep frame, I'd use the hot rolled
rectangular tubing, slight bends made in the hydrualic press, major
bends done as cut and weld. Result would be slighly heavier than the
original stock frame, should be around 2 to 3 times more torsionaly
rigid. I havn't really thought it through whether I'd use .120" wall or
..187" wall, it would depend on my choice of engines. Finshed frame in
..120" wall would run about 125 pounds without the center crossmember.



L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> The key for me is do you have the equipment to make mandrel bends?
> Like it is against the law to weld to commercial truck frames, tells a
> lot of us hot rodders something. Like it is better to start with 1927
> Model T rails than to weld some channels together. Even back then they
> were case harden, which welding destroys.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>
>>We were talking about replacing a tin worm frame with a new frame.
>>Quadratec has rectangular tube frames running about $1800 (depending on
>>model) $300 worth of steel and 40 hours to get to the same point.
>>
>>Would I spend $1800 for a new frame, plus $2000 for a fiberglass body,
>>and $xx for all the rest, of course you won't get your money out.

 

Apples to oranges. Commercial truck frames are subjected to stresses far
in excess of what a Jeep frame would see.
The manufactures have invested a considerable amount R&D to delivering a
product that is light but carries a substantial safety margin. By using
high-tensile steel and heat-treating it becomes something that only
qualified fabricators should mess with. As such, the manufacturer and the
feds try to ensure public safety by limiting unsafe modifications. If the
frames are modified other than specified by the manufacturer, then the
manufacturer is no longer liable.

<< Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
Subpart J -Frames, Cab and Body Components, Wheels, Steering, and
Suspension Systems
§393.201 Frames.
(a) The frame or chassis of each commercial motor vehicle shall not be
cracked, loose, sagging or broken. (b) Bolts or brackets securing the cab or
the body of the vehicle to the frame must not be loose, broken, or missing.
(c) The frame rail flanges between the axles shall not be bent, cut or
notched, except as specified by the manufacturer.
(d) Parts and accessories shall not be welded to the frame or chassis of a
commercial motor vehicle except in accordance with the vehicle
manufacturer's recommendations. Any welded repair of the frame must also be
in accordance with the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations.
(e) No holes shall be drilled in the top or bottom rail flanges, except as
specified by the manufacturer.>>>>>

Light trucks are another thing all together. Lower tensile strength and
no heat treating. Much more forgiving.
You would definitely have a higher resale if the frame were professionally
fabbed rather than home built. If that is a concern.
The biggest drawback would have to be the abilities of the person doing
the welding. Properly welded joints are stronger than the base metal.
If you have the desire to do it, the proper training and select the right
materials, you will end up with something comparable to the mandrel bent
frames. The mandrel bent frames, of course, would likely have much tighter
tolerances but wouldn't necessarily be any stronger.

It would easier just to go find a decent used frame. Do you do some
extreme four-wheeling? Do really you need something stronger than stock?
There are always some on Ebay. Here are a bunch in Texas that would cost
around a grand delivered. Item # 4568417170. Realistically, you would spend
around half of this figure in materials and your time has to be worth
something.

The link to shopfloortalk that Rusted posted was excellent. It offers a
really good perspective on exactly what is involved.



"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4403EF98.9CC1FE6A@***.net...
> The key for me is do you have the equipment to make mandrel bends?
> Like it is against the law to weld to commercial truck frames, tells a
> lot of us hot rodders something. Like it is better to start with 1927
> Model T rails than to weld some channels together. Even back then they
> were case harden, which welding destroys.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>>
>> We were talking about replacing a tin worm frame with a new frame.
>> Quadratec has rectangular tube frames running about $1800 (depending on
>> model) $300 worth of steel and 40 hours to get to the same point.
>>
>> Would I spend $1800 for a new frame, plus $2000 for a fiberglass body,
>> and $xx for all the rest, of course you won't get your money out.