On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 11:31:09 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>That is fine except when you are doing 6+ mph and hit the brakes. The
>ABS kicks in and stays on until you let off the pedal or roll to a stop.
>(or tag the tree)
>
>If the ABS magically turned off as you slowed past 5 mph, then you could
>lock the brakes and stop. It sure doesn't appear to do that because the
>wheels 'don't' lock.

But they DO lock and grind to a stop. My TJ has ABS and I've never had one
single problem off road. Honestly has anyone complaining about Jeep's ABS ever
actually driven a Jeep with ABS?

Now I have driven ABS systems that behave like some are saying Jeep system do,
and strangely enough they were all in GM cars and trucks. My GMC pickup truck's
ABS cycled quite nicely as I rolled into a slippery intersection. But that was
before I learned how to drive an ABS equipped car. When you are posed with a
situation where the ABS is cycling inappropriately (keep in mind my TJ has never
done this) you, . . . . . pump the brakes. duh, just like they taught you in
drivers ed. By definition the ABS works in slippery conditions and in off
roading you find your self in slippery conditions all the time. Heck that is
part of the fun. So if you don't know how to drive, don't blame the equipment.

Sorry for the tough love ;-)
Dean

>
>Mike
>
>Jerry Bransford wrote:
>>
>> According the the brochure I received with my TJ MIke, a TJ's ABS is
>> disabled at speeds below 5mph.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> Mike Romain wrote:
>> > In my opinion you should pull the relays when you are in 4x4 or there
>> > should be a switch. ABS is only good for dry pavement. See Bill's
>> > link... I also have seen a bunch of ABS vehicles calmly just keep on
>> > going totally out of control until that tree finally stops them. On the
>> > street in snow, that would be another vehicle or power pole.
>> >
>> > The collision fixing folks must just love ABS come winter. LOL!
>> >
>> > If you have the owners manual for your Jeep, it should warn you to stay
>> > off the brakes in the snow. Both my manuals state to use the gears to
>> > almost stop, then hit the brakes. The gears can hold you at the
>> > 'threshold' braking point really well with a little practice.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >
>> > "Jim Y." wrote:
>> >
>> >>I've got a Jeep Grand Cherokee and this issue of anti-lock brakes
>> >>functionality came up with regards to the use of Part-Time 4x4 in snowy
>> >>weather.
>> >>
>> >>We know how Part-Time mode operates on the four wheels. Given that, how
>> >>does this affect a vehicle with anti-lock brakes, since ABS monitors the
>> >>rotation of each wheel? If all four wheels are moving at the same rate,
>> >>don't you lose the ability of the ABS to independently monitor each
>> >>wheel speed and brake optimally/properly on a slippery surface that may
>> >>NOT affect all four wheels?
>> >>
>> >>Jim
>>
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

 

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 11:31:09 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>That is fine except when you are doing 6+ mph and hit the brakes. The
>ABS kicks in and stays on until you let off the pedal or roll to a stop.
>(or tag the tree)
>
>If the ABS magically turned off as you slowed past 5 mph, then you could
>lock the brakes and stop. It sure doesn't appear to do that because the
>wheels 'don't' lock.

But they DO lock and grind to a stop. My TJ has ABS and I've never had one
single problem off road. Honestly has anyone complaining about Jeep's ABS ever
actually driven a Jeep with ABS?

Now I have driven ABS systems that behave like some are saying Jeep system do,
and strangely enough they were all in GM cars and trucks. My GMC pickup truck's
ABS cycled quite nicely as I rolled into a slippery intersection. But that was
before I learned how to drive an ABS equipped car. When you are posed with a
situation where the ABS is cycling inappropriately (keep in mind my TJ has never
done this) you, . . . . . pump the brakes. duh, just like they taught you in
drivers ed. By definition the ABS works in slippery conditions and in off
roading you find your self in slippery conditions all the time. Heck that is
part of the fun. So if you don't know how to drive, don't blame the equipment.

Sorry for the tough love ;-)
Dean

>
>Mike
>
>Jerry Bransford wrote:
>>
>> According the the brochure I received with my TJ MIke, a TJ's ABS is
>> disabled at speeds below 5mph.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> Mike Romain wrote:
>> > In my opinion you should pull the relays when you are in 4x4 or there
>> > should be a switch. ABS is only good for dry pavement. See Bill's
>> > link... I also have seen a bunch of ABS vehicles calmly just keep on
>> > going totally out of control until that tree finally stops them. On the
>> > street in snow, that would be another vehicle or power pole.
>> >
>> > The collision fixing folks must just love ABS come winter. LOL!
>> >
>> > If you have the owners manual for your Jeep, it should warn you to stay
>> > off the brakes in the snow. Both my manuals state to use the gears to
>> > almost stop, then hit the brakes. The gears can hold you at the
>> > 'threshold' braking point really well with a little practice.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >
>> > "Jim Y." wrote:
>> >
>> >>I've got a Jeep Grand Cherokee and this issue of anti-lock brakes
>> >>functionality came up with regards to the use of Part-Time 4x4 in snowy
>> >>weather.
>> >>
>> >>We know how Part-Time mode operates on the four wheels. Given that, how
>> >>does this affect a vehicle with anti-lock brakes, since ABS monitors the
>> >>rotation of each wheel? If all four wheels are moving at the same rate,
>> >>don't you lose the ability of the ABS to independently monitor each
>> >>wheel speed and brake optimally/properly on a slippery surface that may
>> >>NOT affect all four wheels?
>> >>
>> >>Jim
>>
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

 

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 11:31:09 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>That is fine except when you are doing 6+ mph and hit the brakes. The
>ABS kicks in and stays on until you let off the pedal or roll to a stop.
>(or tag the tree)
>
>If the ABS magically turned off as you slowed past 5 mph, then you could
>lock the brakes and stop. It sure doesn't appear to do that because the
>wheels 'don't' lock.

But they DO lock and grind to a stop. My TJ has ABS and I've never had one
single problem off road. Honestly has anyone complaining about Jeep's ABS ever
actually driven a Jeep with ABS?

Now I have driven ABS systems that behave like some are saying Jeep system do,
and strangely enough they were all in GM cars and trucks. My GMC pickup truck's
ABS cycled quite nicely as I rolled into a slippery intersection. But that was
before I learned how to drive an ABS equipped car. When you are posed with a
situation where the ABS is cycling inappropriately (keep in mind my TJ has never
done this) you, . . . . . pump the brakes. duh, just like they taught you in
drivers ed. By definition the ABS works in slippery conditions and in off
roading you find your self in slippery conditions all the time. Heck that is
part of the fun. So if you don't know how to drive, don't blame the equipment.

Sorry for the tough love ;-)
Dean

>
>Mike
>
>Jerry Bransford wrote:
>>
>> According the the brochure I received with my TJ MIke, a TJ's ABS is
>> disabled at speeds below 5mph.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> Mike Romain wrote:
>> > In my opinion you should pull the relays when you are in 4x4 or there
>> > should be a switch. ABS is only good for dry pavement. See Bill's
>> > link... I also have seen a bunch of ABS vehicles calmly just keep on
>> > going totally out of control until that tree finally stops them. On the
>> > street in snow, that would be another vehicle or power pole.
>> >
>> > The collision fixing folks must just love ABS come winter. LOL!
>> >
>> > If you have the owners manual for your Jeep, it should warn you to stay
>> > off the brakes in the snow. Both my manuals state to use the gears to
>> > almost stop, then hit the brakes. The gears can hold you at the
>> > 'threshold' braking point really well with a little practice.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >
>> > "Jim Y." wrote:
>> >
>> >>I've got a Jeep Grand Cherokee and this issue of anti-lock brakes
>> >>functionality came up with regards to the use of Part-Time 4x4 in snowy
>> >>weather.
>> >>
>> >>We know how Part-Time mode operates on the four wheels. Given that, how
>> >>does this affect a vehicle with anti-lock brakes, since ABS monitors the
>> >>rotation of each wheel? If all four wheels are moving at the same rate,
>> >>don't you lose the ability of the ABS to independently monitor each
>> >>wheel speed and brake optimally/properly on a slippery surface that may
>> >>NOT affect all four wheels?
>> >>
>> >>Jim
>>
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

 

Hi Dean,
I don't believe your ABS survived your Dana 44 change over. You've
never describe the key words that tell me it has. Like take into an
empty park lot and driving about twenty miles an hour then start it into
a turn and hit the brakes hard like you know how to, like you're
panicked. Then tell me what you feel and hear.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Dean wrote:
>
> But they DO lock and grind to a stop. My TJ has ABS and I've never had one
> single problem off road. Honestly has anyone complaining about Jeep's ABS ever
> actually driven a Jeep with ABS?
>
> Now I have driven ABS systems that behave like some are saying Jeep system do,
> and strangely enough they were all in GM cars and trucks. My GMC pickup truck's
> ABS cycled quite nicely as I rolled into a slippery intersection. But that was
> before I learned how to drive an ABS equipped car. When you are posed with a
> situation where the ABS is cycling inappropriately (keep in mind my TJ has never
> done this) you, . . . . . pump the brakes. duh, just like they taught you in
> drivers ed. By definition the ABS works in slippery conditions and in off
> roading you find your self in slippery conditions all the time. Heck that is
> part of the fun. So if you don't know how to drive, don't blame the equipment.
>
> Sorry for the tough love ;-)
> Dean

 

Hi Dean,
I don't believe your ABS survived your Dana 44 change over. You've
never describe the key words that tell me it has. Like take into an
empty park lot and driving about twenty miles an hour then start it into
a turn and hit the brakes hard like you know how to, like you're
panicked. Then tell me what you feel and hear.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Dean wrote:
>
> But they DO lock and grind to a stop. My TJ has ABS and I've never had one
> single problem off road. Honestly has anyone complaining about Jeep's ABS ever
> actually driven a Jeep with ABS?
>
> Now I have driven ABS systems that behave like some are saying Jeep system do,
> and strangely enough they were all in GM cars and trucks. My GMC pickup truck's
> ABS cycled quite nicely as I rolled into a slippery intersection. But that was
> before I learned how to drive an ABS equipped car. When you are posed with a
> situation where the ABS is cycling inappropriately (keep in mind my TJ has never
> done this) you, . . . . . pump the brakes. duh, just like they taught you in
> drivers ed. By definition the ABS works in slippery conditions and in off
> roading you find your self in slippery conditions all the time. Heck that is
> part of the fun. So if you don't know how to drive, don't blame the equipment.
>
> Sorry for the tough love ;-)
> Dean

 

Hi Dean,
I don't believe your ABS survived your Dana 44 change over. You've
never describe the key words that tell me it has. Like take into an
empty park lot and driving about twenty miles an hour then start it into
a turn and hit the brakes hard like you know how to, like you're
panicked. Then tell me what you feel and hear.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Dean wrote:
>
> But they DO lock and grind to a stop. My TJ has ABS and I've never had one
> single problem off road. Honestly has anyone complaining about Jeep's ABS ever
> actually driven a Jeep with ABS?
>
> Now I have driven ABS systems that behave like some are saying Jeep system do,
> and strangely enough they were all in GM cars and trucks. My GMC pickup truck's
> ABS cycled quite nicely as I rolled into a slippery intersection. But that was
> before I learned how to drive an ABS equipped car. When you are posed with a
> situation where the ABS is cycling inappropriately (keep in mind my TJ has never
> done this) you, . . . . . pump the brakes. duh, just like they taught you in
> drivers ed. By definition the ABS works in slippery conditions and in off
> roading you find your self in slippery conditions all the time. Heck that is
> part of the fun. So if you don't know how to drive, don't blame the equipment.
>
> Sorry for the tough love ;-)
> Dean

 

Mike, you should have driven my TJ before I had to disable my ABS system
because it did precisely that. You don't own a TJ do you?

Jerry

Mike Romain wrote:
> That is fine except when you are doing 6+ mph and hit the brakes. The
> ABS kicks in and stays on until you let off the pedal or roll to a stop.
> (or tag the tree)
>
> If the ABS magically turned off as you slowed past 5 mph, then you could
> lock the brakes and stop. It sure doesn't appear to do that because the
> wheels 'don't' lock.
>
> Mike
>
> Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
>>According the the brochure I received with my TJ MIke, a TJ's ABS is
>>disabled at speeds below 5mph.
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>
>>>In my opinion you should pull the relays when you are in 4x4 or there
>>>should be a switch. ABS is only good for dry pavement. See Bill's
>>>link... I also have seen a bunch of ABS vehicles calmly just keep on
>>>going totally out of control until that tree finally stops them. On the
>>>street in snow, that would be another vehicle or power pole.
>>>
>>>The collision fixing folks must just love ABS come winter. LOL!
>>>
>>>If you have the owners manual for your Jeep, it should warn you to stay
>>>off the brakes in the snow. Both my manuals state to use the gears to
>>>almost stop, then hit the brakes. The gears can hold you at the
>>>'threshold' braking point really well with a little practice.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>
>>>"Jim Y." wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I've got a Jeep Grand Cherokee and this issue of anti-lock brakes
>>>>functionality came up with regards to the use of Part-Time 4x4 in snowy
>>>>weather.
>>>>
>>>>We know how Part-Time mode operates on the four wheels. Given that, how
>>>>does this affect a vehicle with anti-lock brakes, since ABS monitors the
>>>>rotation of each wheel? If all four wheels are moving at the same rate,
>>>>don't you lose the ability of the ABS to independently monitor each
>>>>wheel speed and brake optimally/properly on a slippery surface that may
>>>>NOT affect all four wheels?
>>>>
>>>>Jim
>>
>>--
>>Jerry Bransford
>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

 

Mike, you should have driven my TJ before I had to disable my ABS system
because it did precisely that. You don't own a TJ do you?

Jerry

Mike Romain wrote:
> That is fine except when you are doing 6+ mph and hit the brakes. The
> ABS kicks in and stays on until you let off the pedal or roll to a stop.
> (or tag the tree)
>
> If the ABS magically turned off as you slowed past 5 mph, then you could
> lock the brakes and stop. It sure doesn't appear to do that because the
> wheels 'don't' lock.
>
> Mike
>
> Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
>>According the the brochure I received with my TJ MIke, a TJ's ABS is
>>disabled at speeds below 5mph.
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>
>>>In my opinion you should pull the relays when you are in 4x4 or there
>>>should be a switch. ABS is only good for dry pavement. See Bill's
>>>link... I also have seen a bunch of ABS vehicles calmly just keep on
>>>going totally out of control until that tree finally stops them. On the
>>>street in snow, that would be another vehicle or power pole.
>>>
>>>The collision fixing folks must just love ABS come winter. LOL!
>>>
>>>If you have the owners manual for your Jeep, it should warn you to stay
>>>off the brakes in the snow. Both my manuals state to use the gears to
>>>almost stop, then hit the brakes. The gears can hold you at the
>>>'threshold' braking point really well with a little practice.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>
>>>"Jim Y." wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I've got a Jeep Grand Cherokee and this issue of anti-lock brakes
>>>>functionality came up with regards to the use of Part-Time 4x4 in snowy
>>>>weather.
>>>>
>>>>We know how Part-Time mode operates on the four wheels. Given that, how
>>>>does this affect a vehicle with anti-lock brakes, since ABS monitors the
>>>>rotation of each wheel? If all four wheels are moving at the same rate,
>>>>don't you lose the ability of the ABS to independently monitor each
>>>>wheel speed and brake optimally/properly on a slippery surface that may
>>>>NOT affect all four wheels?
>>>>
>>>>Jim
>>
>>--
>>Jerry Bransford
>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

 

Mike, you should have driven my TJ before I had to disable my ABS system
because it did precisely that. You don't own a TJ do you?

Jerry

Mike Romain wrote:
> That is fine except when you are doing 6+ mph and hit the brakes. The
> ABS kicks in and stays on until you let off the pedal or roll to a stop.
> (or tag the tree)
>
> If the ABS magically turned off as you slowed past 5 mph, then you could
> lock the brakes and stop. It sure doesn't appear to do that because the
> wheels 'don't' lock.
>
> Mike
>
> Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
>>According the the brochure I received with my TJ MIke, a TJ's ABS is
>>disabled at speeds below 5mph.
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>
>>>In my opinion you should pull the relays when you are in 4x4 or there
>>>should be a switch. ABS is only good for dry pavement. See Bill's
>>>link... I also have seen a bunch of ABS vehicles calmly just keep on
>>>going totally out of control until that tree finally stops them. On the
>>>street in snow, that would be another vehicle or power pole.
>>>
>>>The collision fixing folks must just love ABS come winter. LOL!
>>>
>>>If you have the owners manual for your Jeep, it should warn you to stay
>>>off the brakes in the snow. Both my manuals state to use the gears to
>>>almost stop, then hit the brakes. The gears can hold you at the
>>>'threshold' braking point really well with a little practice.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>
>>>"Jim Y." wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I've got a Jeep Grand Cherokee and this issue of anti-lock brakes
>>>>functionality came up with regards to the use of Part-Time 4x4 in snowy
>>>>weather.
>>>>
>>>>We know how Part-Time mode operates on the four wheels. Given that, how
>>>>does this affect a vehicle with anti-lock brakes, since ABS monitors the
>>>>rotation of each wheel? If all four wheels are moving at the same rate,
>>>>don't you lose the ability of the ABS to independently monitor each
>>>>wheel speed and brake optimally/properly on a slippery surface that may
>>>>NOT affect all four wheels?
>>>>
>>>>Jim
>>
>>--
>>Jerry Bransford
>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

 

Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:18:00 -0800, L.W.(ßill) ------ III <----------@***.net>
wrote:

>Hi Dean,
> I don't believe your ABS survived your Dana 44 change over. You've
>never describe the key words that tell me it has. Like take into an
>empty park lot and driving about twenty miles an hour then start it into
>a turn and hit the brakes hard like you know how to, like you're
>panicked. Then tell me what you feel and hear.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Been there done that, well only in snowy, slippery parking lots <lol>. The
brake peddle bucks and kicks under my foot and you can hear the system making a
grr grr grr sound. Other tests I've done are 4 low, 20+ mph, jam on the
brakes. The system cycles until I get down to some low speed and then the tires
lock and I grind to a halt. I don't know what the exact speed is when the
brakes lock, but I'd guess that its between 10 and 5 mph. Braking distance is
about the same as when I pump the brakes.

IMHO ABS isn't really of much use on the dry, or for that mater for most
drivers. I read somewhere that most drivers simply jam on the brakes and drive
straight into the obstacle rather than braking and steering around the problem.
And for those drivers ABS is truely a bad thing because it increases braking
distances. Unfortunately there are those out there that don't know how to drive
and all the ABS/non ABS in the world isn't going to make a bit of difference for
them.

But, anybody can disable any ABS system simply by pumping the brakes. They had
a big advertising campaign here a couple of years ago telling people to not pump
the brakes on ABS equipped cars in slippery conditions. These guys that are
rolling down hills with the ABS cycling (and I don't believe they are driving
Jeeps that are in proper running order) simply need to lift their foot and put
it down again, repeat. I know that is easier said than done, cause I had that
rolling downhill experience with my GMC.

Personally I use ABS as an early warning system on the slippery. Sometimes it
is hard to tell if the roads are just wet or if they are icy. If I brake and
it cycles I am clearly going too fast and need to slow down. And if I ever need
to brake and steer around a problem it is one less thing to pay attention to.
Basically I've delegated the emergency braking to the computer. However,
delegation does not mean abdication, yah still gotta drive. <lol>

Dean
<Full disclosure: I've never had to use ABS in an emergency situation. Frankly
I don't remember the last time I had to emergency brake. I treat ABS the same
way I treat air bags. I don't ever want to use them but in an emergency I want
them there.>


>
>Dean wrote:
>>
>> But they DO lock and grind to a stop. My TJ has ABS and I've never had one
>> single problem off road. Honestly has anyone complaining about Jeep's ABS ever
>> actually driven a Jeep with ABS?
>>
>> Now I have driven ABS systems that behave like some are saying Jeep system do,
>> and strangely enough they were all in GM cars and trucks. My GMC pickup truck's
>> ABS cycled quite nicely as I rolled into a slippery intersection. But that was
>> before I learned how to drive an ABS equipped car. When you are posed with a
>> situation where the ABS is cycling inappropriately (keep in mind my TJ has never
>> done this) you, . . . . . pump the brakes. duh, just like they taught you in
>> drivers ed. By definition the ABS works in slippery conditions and in off
>> roading you find your self in slippery conditions all the time. Heck that is
>> part of the fun. So if you don't know how to drive, don't blame the equipment.
>>
>> Sorry for the tough love ;-)
>> Dean