Mike Romain

You are posting in HTML by the way....

I wonder what is causing the front axle tubes to bend then?

You have to bend something to knock the camber out I would think. Are
people just slamming curbs with them or something to bend them?

Bent tubes is the only reason you would need to add off set ball joints
and they now offer them aftermarket.

Mike

tim bur wrote:
>
> hmm ok the grands have a alumium center carrier and it will bend
> inward causing the bearing's to bind up.( THATS WHY U DON'T JACK IT UP
> THERE)there would have to be a another jeep on top of the one u jack
> up to bend the rear axle tubes enough to reset the camber on the rear
> axles but then u would have bent rear axles not axle tubes, the
> fronts are all steel and do not bend. the new 2005 grands have a front
> alxe like the liberty;'s and the rears are all new but steel and are
> electronic
> it would be hard to jack up a new grand in front by the axle
> i go by the tire stores all the time and see tr ucks jacked up by the
> axle housings
> Mike Romain wrote:
>
> > The new differentials and axles are too weak to hold the weight of
> > the
> > vehicle, so if you jack them up by the pumpkin, the axle tubes bend
> > down
> > which throws either the rear wheel camber way off and/or destroys
> > axle
> > bearings.
> >
> > I haven't heard of this happening on the front because I haven't
> > seen
> > anyone stupid enough to jack the front up by the pumpkin with all
> > that
> > engine weight on top of it or because the front pumpkin is off
> > center
> > maybe.
> >
> > You might want to keep this in mind for the units that suddenly need
> > off
> > set or adjustable ball joints....
> >
> > I take that back about not hearing about the front ones being bent.
> > We
> > are likely discussing that in this thread and that is likely the
> > reason
> > for the afterthought part or adjustable ball joint eh?
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > tim bur wrote:
> > >
> > > please explain to me how jacking up a axle by the center unit
> > changes camber
> > > since i do at least 3 aligments a week i need to know this hehehe
> >
> > >
> > > DougW wrote:
> > >
> > > > Bulletsnbrains did pass the time by typing:
> > > > > Suggest slowing down on corners.
> > > > >
> > > > > Else, try another alignment shop and have them double check
> > the toe in.
> > > >
> > > > Check camber also
> > > > Which on the solid axle can be due to someone jacking the front
> > end
> > > > via the diff. (or by hitting a suitibly sized rock)
> > > >
> > > > Jeep offers offset ball joints to adjust camber but if the
> > > > axle is bent there isn't much you can do but replace it.
> > > >
> > > > Good ref but not for Jeep specs
> > > > http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/o_tirewear.html
> > > >
> > > > > "erthmun" wrote...
> > > > >> Hey all,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I have a '99 JGC Laredo with almost 62K miles on it. Got it
> > 3 years ago
> > > > >> with 22K on it. The tires were, for the better part, new.
> > About a year
> > > > >> and a half ago I replaced the front tires and had an
> > alignment. The
> > > > >> original tires had wore badly on the outside.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> With the new tires and alignment all was good for a while and
> > the fronts
> > > > >> started wearing on the outside again, noticed it before the
> > rest of the
> > > > >> tread was affected and had another alignment. Noticed the
> > other day
> > > > >> that the front tires were going to need replaced again soon
> > because of
> > > > >> the outside wear, A G A I N.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Any ideas as to what may be going on ? I can't afford new
> > tires and
> > > > >> alignments every year and a half. Please don't suggest a
> > rotation. I'm
> > > > >> not planning on that until I'm satisfied they are all going
> > to wear
> > > > >> evenly. Planning on replacing the stock shocks with
> > Bilsteins, then new
> > > > >> tires, and another alignment. Should I have the dealership
> > look at the
> > > > >> front control arms and bushings ???
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Any help appreciated.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> erthmun

Mike Romain

You are posting in HTML by the way....

I wonder what is causing the front axle tubes to bend then?

You have to bend something to knock the camber out I would think. Are
people just slamming curbs with them or something to bend them?

Bent tubes is the only reason you would need to add off set ball joints
and they now offer them aftermarket.

Mike

tim bur wrote:
>
> hmm ok the grands have a alumium center carrier and it will bend
> inward causing the bearing's to bind up.( THATS WHY U DON'T JACK IT UP
> THERE)there would have to be a another jeep on top of the one u jack
> up to bend the rear axle tubes enough to reset the camber on the rear
> axles but then u would have bent rear axles not axle tubes, the
> fronts are all steel and do not bend. the new 2005 grands have a front
> alxe like the liberty;'s and the rears are all new but steel and are
> electronic
> it would be hard to jack up a new grand in front by the axle
> i go by the tire stores all the time and see tr ucks jacked up by the
> axle housings
> Mike Romain wrote:
>
> > The new differentials and axles are too weak to hold the weight of
> > the
> > vehicle, so if you jack them up by the pumpkin, the axle tubes bend
> > down
> > which throws either the rear wheel camber way off and/or destroys
> > axle
> > bearings.
> >
> > I haven't heard of this happening on the front because I haven't
> > seen
> > anyone stupid enough to jack the front up by the pumpkin with all
> > that
> > engine weight on top of it or because the front pumpkin is off
> > center
> > maybe.
> >
> > You might want to keep this in mind for the units that suddenly need
> > off
> > set or adjustable ball joints....
> >
> > I take that back about not hearing about the front ones being bent.
> > We
> > are likely discussing that in this thread and that is likely the
> > reason
> > for the afterthought part or adjustable ball joint eh?
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > tim bur wrote:
> > >
> > > please explain to me how jacking up a axle by the center unit
> > changes camber
> > > since i do at least 3 aligments a week i need to know this hehehe
> >
> > >
> > > DougW wrote:
> > >
> > > > Bulletsnbrains did pass the time by typing:
> > > > > Suggest slowing down on corners.
> > > > >
> > > > > Else, try another alignment shop and have them double check
> > the toe in.
> > > >
> > > > Check camber also
> > > > Which on the solid axle can be due to someone jacking the front
> > end
> > > > via the diff. (or by hitting a suitibly sized rock)
> > > >
> > > > Jeep offers offset ball joints to adjust camber but if the
> > > > axle is bent there isn't much you can do but replace it.
> > > >
> > > > Good ref but not for Jeep specs
> > > > http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/o_tirewear.html
> > > >
> > > > > "erthmun" wrote...
> > > > >> Hey all,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I have a '99 JGC Laredo with almost 62K miles on it. Got it
> > 3 years ago
> > > > >> with 22K on it. The tires were, for the better part, new.
> > About a year
> > > > >> and a half ago I replaced the front tires and had an
> > alignment. The
> > > > >> original tires had wore badly on the outside.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> With the new tires and alignment all was good for a while and
> > the fronts
> > > > >> started wearing on the outside again, noticed it before the
> > rest of the
> > > > >> tread was affected and had another alignment. Noticed the
> > other day
> > > > >> that the front tires were going to need replaced again soon
> > because of
> > > > >> the outside wear, A G A I N.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Any ideas as to what may be going on ? I can't afford new
> > tires and
> > > > >> alignments every year and a half. Please don't suggest a
> > rotation. I'm
> > > > >> not planning on that until I'm satisfied they are all going
> > to wear
> > > > >> evenly. Planning on replacing the stock shocks with
> > Bilsteins, then new
> > > > >> tires, and another alignment. Should I have the dealership
> > look at the
> > > > >> front control arms and bushings ???
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Any help appreciated.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> erthmun

Will Honea

Mike, the arms on the wheel side (the ones that hold the ball joints)
can be bent slightly w/o really even being visible - saw a couple that
had been tweeked in accidents where the wheel got hit. Same for
sliding into curbs in the snow. Not easy to do and you are pretty
much assured of trashing the wheel in th process but it doesn't take
much of a bend to screw the camber. The couple I've seen actually got
hit on the high side of the wheel - there's more to bend on top than
on the bottom side. The displacement is right where the front u-joint
can take care of the angle, which pretty small to begin with.

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 14:30:29 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> You are posting in HTML by the way....
>
> I wonder what is causing the front axle tubes to bend then?
>
> You have to bend something to knock the camber out I would think. Are
> people just slamming curbs with them or something to bend them?
>
> Bent tubes is the only reason you would need to add off set ball joints
> and they now offer them aftermarket.
>
> Mike
>
> tim bur wrote:
> >
> > hmm ok the grands have a alumium center carrier and it will bend
> > inward causing the bearing's to bind up.( THATS WHY U DON'T JACK IT UP
> > THERE)there would have to be a another jeep on top of the one u jack
> > up to bend the rear axle tubes enough to reset the camber on the rear
> > axles but then u would have bent rear axles not axle tubes, the
> > fronts are all steel and do not bend. the new 2005 grands have a front
> > alxe like the liberty;'s and the rears are all new but steel and are
> > electronic
> > it would be hard to jack up a new grand in front by the axle
> > i go by the tire stores all the time and see tr ucks jacked up by the
> > axle housings
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > > The new differentials and axles are too weak to hold the weight of
> > > the
> > > vehicle, so if you jack them up by the pumpkin, the axle tubes bend
> > > down
> > > which throws either the rear wheel camber way off and/or destroys
> > > axle
> > > bearings.
> > >
> > > I haven't heard of this happening on the front because I haven't
> > > seen
> > > anyone stupid enough to jack the front up by the pumpkin with all
> > > that
> > > engine weight on top of it or because the front pumpkin is off
> > > center
> > > maybe.
> > >
> > > You might want to keep this in mind for the units that suddenly need
> > > off
> > > set or adjustable ball joints....
> > >
> > > I take that back about not hearing about the front ones being bent.
> > > We
> > > are likely discussing that in this thread and that is likely the
> > > reason
> > > for the afterthought part or adjustable ball joint eh?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > tim bur wrote:
> > > >
> > > > please explain to me how jacking up a axle by the center unit
> > > changes camber
> > > > since i do at least 3 aligments a week i need to know this hehehe
> > >
> > > >
> > > > DougW wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bulletsnbrains did pass the time by typing:
> > > > > > Suggest slowing down on corners.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Else, try another alignment shop and have them double check
> > > the toe in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Check camber also
> > > > > Which on the solid axle can be due to someone jacking the front
> > > end
> > > > > via the diff. (or by hitting a suitibly sized rock)
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeep offers offset ball joints to adjust camber but if the
> > > > > axle is bent there isn't much you can do but replace it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good ref but not for Jeep specs
> > > > > http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/o_tirewear.html
> > > > >
> > > > > > "erthmun" wrote...
> > > > > >> Hey all,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have a '99 JGC Laredo with almost 62K miles on it. Got it
> > > 3 years ago
> > > > > >> with 22K on it. The tires were, for the better part, new.
> > > About a year
> > > > > >> and a half ago I replaced the front tires and had an
> > > alignment. The
> > > > > >> original tires had wore badly on the outside.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> With the new tires and alignment all was good for a while and
> > > the fronts
> > > > > >> started wearing on the outside again, noticed it before the
> > > rest of the
> > > > > >> tread was affected and had another alignment. Noticed the
> > > other day
> > > > > >> that the front tires were going to need replaced again soon
> > > because of
> > > > > >> the outside wear, A G A I N.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Any ideas as to what may be going on ? I can't afford new
> > > tires and
> > > > > >> alignments every year and a half. Please don't suggest a
> > > rotation. I'm
> > > > > >> not planning on that until I'm satisfied they are all going
> > > to wear
> > > > > >> evenly. Planning on replacing the stock shocks with
> > > Bilsteins, then new
> > > > > >> tires, and another alignment. Should I have the dealership
> > > look at the
> > > > > >> front control arms and bushings ???
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Any help appreciated.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> erthmun


--
Will Honea

Will Honea

Mike, the arms on the wheel side (the ones that hold the ball joints)
can be bent slightly w/o really even being visible - saw a couple that
had been tweeked in accidents where the wheel got hit. Same for
sliding into curbs in the snow. Not easy to do and you are pretty
much assured of trashing the wheel in th process but it doesn't take
much of a bend to screw the camber. The couple I've seen actually got
hit on the high side of the wheel - there's more to bend on top than
on the bottom side. The displacement is right where the front u-joint
can take care of the angle, which pretty small to begin with.

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 14:30:29 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> You are posting in HTML by the way....
>
> I wonder what is causing the front axle tubes to bend then?
>
> You have to bend something to knock the camber out I would think. Are
> people just slamming curbs with them or something to bend them?
>
> Bent tubes is the only reason you would need to add off set ball joints
> and they now offer them aftermarket.
>
> Mike
>
> tim bur wrote:
> >
> > hmm ok the grands have a alumium center carrier and it will bend
> > inward causing the bearing's to bind up.( THATS WHY U DON'T JACK IT UP
> > THERE)there would have to be a another jeep on top of the one u jack
> > up to bend the rear axle tubes enough to reset the camber on the rear
> > axles but then u would have bent rear axles not axle tubes, the
> > fronts are all steel and do not bend. the new 2005 grands have a front
> > alxe like the liberty;'s and the rears are all new but steel and are
> > electronic
> > it would be hard to jack up a new grand in front by the axle
> > i go by the tire stores all the time and see tr ucks jacked up by the
> > axle housings
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > > The new differentials and axles are too weak to hold the weight of
> > > the
> > > vehicle, so if you jack them up by the pumpkin, the axle tubes bend
> > > down
> > > which throws either the rear wheel camber way off and/or destroys
> > > axle
> > > bearings.
> > >
> > > I haven't heard of this happening on the front because I haven't
> > > seen
> > > anyone stupid enough to jack the front up by the pumpkin with all
> > > that
> > > engine weight on top of it or because the front pumpkin is off
> > > center
> > > maybe.
> > >
> > > You might want to keep this in mind for the units that suddenly need
> > > off
> > > set or adjustable ball joints....
> > >
> > > I take that back about not hearing about the front ones being bent.
> > > We
> > > are likely discussing that in this thread and that is likely the
> > > reason
> > > for the afterthought part or adjustable ball joint eh?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > tim bur wrote:
> > > >
> > > > please explain to me how jacking up a axle by the center unit
> > > changes camber
> > > > since i do at least 3 aligments a week i need to know this hehehe
> > >
> > > >
> > > > DougW wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bulletsnbrains did pass the time by typing:
> > > > > > Suggest slowing down on corners.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Else, try another alignment shop and have them double check
> > > the toe in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Check camber also
> > > > > Which on the solid axle can be due to someone jacking the front
> > > end
> > > > > via the diff. (or by hitting a suitibly sized rock)
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeep offers offset ball joints to adjust camber but if the
> > > > > axle is bent there isn't much you can do but replace it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good ref but not for Jeep specs
> > > > > http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/o_tirewear.html
> > > > >
> > > > > > "erthmun" wrote...
> > > > > >> Hey all,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have a '99 JGC Laredo with almost 62K miles on it. Got it
> > > 3 years ago
> > > > > >> with 22K on it. The tires were, for the better part, new.
> > > About a year
> > > > > >> and a half ago I replaced the front tires and had an
> > > alignment. The
> > > > > >> original tires had wore badly on the outside.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> With the new tires and alignment all was good for a while and
> > > the fronts
> > > > > >> started wearing on the outside again, noticed it before the
> > > rest of the
> > > > > >> tread was affected and had another alignment. Noticed the
> > > other day
> > > > > >> that the front tires were going to need replaced again soon
> > > because of
> > > > > >> the outside wear, A G A I N.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Any ideas as to what may be going on ? I can't afford new
> > > tires and
> > > > > >> alignments every year and a half. Please don't suggest a
> > > rotation. I'm
> > > > > >> not planning on that until I'm satisfied they are all going
> > > to wear
> > > > > >> evenly. Planning on replacing the stock shocks with
> > > Bilsteins, then new
> > > > > >> tires, and another alignment. Should I have the dealership
> > > look at the
> > > > > >> front control arms and bushings ???
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Any help appreciated.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> erthmun


--
Will Honea

Will Honea

Mike, the arms on the wheel side (the ones that hold the ball joints)
can be bent slightly w/o really even being visible - saw a couple that
had been tweeked in accidents where the wheel got hit. Same for
sliding into curbs in the snow. Not easy to do and you are pretty
much assured of trashing the wheel in th process but it doesn't take
much of a bend to screw the camber. The couple I've seen actually got
hit on the high side of the wheel - there's more to bend on top than
on the bottom side. The displacement is right where the front u-joint
can take care of the angle, which pretty small to begin with.

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 14:30:29 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> You are posting in HTML by the way....
>
> I wonder what is causing the front axle tubes to bend then?
>
> You have to bend something to knock the camber out I would think. Are
> people just slamming curbs with them or something to bend them?
>
> Bent tubes is the only reason you would need to add off set ball joints
> and they now offer them aftermarket.
>
> Mike
>
> tim bur wrote:
> >
> > hmm ok the grands have a alumium center carrier and it will bend
> > inward causing the bearing's to bind up.( THATS WHY U DON'T JACK IT UP
> > THERE)there would have to be a another jeep on top of the one u jack
> > up to bend the rear axle tubes enough to reset the camber on the rear
> > axles but then u would have bent rear axles not axle tubes, the
> > fronts are all steel and do not bend. the new 2005 grands have a front
> > alxe like the liberty;'s and the rears are all new but steel and are
> > electronic
> > it would be hard to jack up a new grand in front by the axle
> > i go by the tire stores all the time and see tr ucks jacked up by the
> > axle housings
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > > The new differentials and axles are too weak to hold the weight of
> > > the
> > > vehicle, so if you jack them up by the pumpkin, the axle tubes bend
> > > down
> > > which throws either the rear wheel camber way off and/or destroys
> > > axle
> > > bearings.
> > >
> > > I haven't heard of this happening on the front because I haven't
> > > seen
> > > anyone stupid enough to jack the front up by the pumpkin with all
> > > that
> > > engine weight on top of it or because the front pumpkin is off
> > > center
> > > maybe.
> > >
> > > You might want to keep this in mind for the units that suddenly need
> > > off
> > > set or adjustable ball joints....
> > >
> > > I take that back about not hearing about the front ones being bent.
> > > We
> > > are likely discussing that in this thread and that is likely the
> > > reason
> > > for the afterthought part or adjustable ball joint eh?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > tim bur wrote:
> > > >
> > > > please explain to me how jacking up a axle by the center unit
> > > changes camber
> > > > since i do at least 3 aligments a week i need to know this hehehe
> > >
> > > >
> > > > DougW wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bulletsnbrains did pass the time by typing:
> > > > > > Suggest slowing down on corners.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Else, try another alignment shop and have them double check
> > > the toe in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Check camber also
> > > > > Which on the solid axle can be due to someone jacking the front
> > > end
> > > > > via the diff. (or by hitting a suitibly sized rock)
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeep offers offset ball joints to adjust camber but if the
> > > > > axle is bent there isn't much you can do but replace it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good ref but not for Jeep specs
> > > > > http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/o_tirewear.html
> > > > >
> > > > > > "erthmun" wrote...
> > > > > >> Hey all,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have a '99 JGC Laredo with almost 62K miles on it. Got it
> > > 3 years ago
> > > > > >> with 22K on it. The tires were, for the better part, new.
> > > About a year
> > > > > >> and a half ago I replaced the front tires and had an
> > > alignment. The
> > > > > >> original tires had wore badly on the outside.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> With the new tires and alignment all was good for a while and
> > > the fronts
> > > > > >> started wearing on the outside again, noticed it before the
> > > rest of the
> > > > > >> tread was affected and had another alignment. Noticed the
> > > other day
> > > > > >> that the front tires were going to need replaced again soon
> > > because of
> > > > > >> the outside wear, A G A I N.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Any ideas as to what may be going on ? I can't afford new
> > > tires and
> > > > > >> alignments every year and a half. Please don't suggest a
> > > rotation. I'm
> > > > > >> not planning on that until I'm satisfied they are all going
> > > to wear
> > > > > >> evenly. Planning on replacing the stock shocks with
> > > Bilsteins, then new
> > > > > >> tires, and another alignment. Should I have the dealership
> > > look at the
> > > > > >> front control arms and bushings ???
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Any help appreciated.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> erthmun


--
Will Honea

tim bur

you know i have been aligning jeeps now 10 years plus and i have yet to use
those offsets even on the lifted ones i have done

Mike Romain wrote:

> You are posting in HTML by the way....
>
> I wonder what is causing the front axle tubes to bend then?
>
> You have to bend something to knock the camber out I would think. Are
> people just slamming curbs with them or something to bend them?
>
> Bent tubes is the only reason you would need to add off set ball joints
> and they now offer them aftermarket.
>
> Mike
>
> tim bur wrote:
> >
> > hmm ok the grands have a alumium center carrier and it will bend
> > inward causing the bearing's to bind up.( THATS WHY U DON'T JACK IT UP
> > THERE)there would have to be a another jeep on top of the one u jack
> > up to bend the rear axle tubes enough to reset the camber on the rear
> > axles but then u would have bent rear axles not axle tubes, the
> > fronts are all steel and do not bend. the new 2005 grands have a front
> > alxe like the liberty;'s and the rears are all new but steel and are
> > electronic
> > it would be hard to jack up a new grand in front by the axle
> > i go by the tire stores all the time and see tr ucks jacked up by the
> > axle housings
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > > The new differentials and axles are too weak to hold the weight of
> > > the
> > > vehicle, so if you jack them up by the pumpkin, the axle tubes bend
> > > down
> > > which throws either the rear wheel camber way off and/or destroys
> > > axle
> > > bearings.
> > >
> > > I haven't heard of this happening on the front because I haven't
> > > seen
> > > anyone stupid enough to jack the front up by the pumpkin with all
> > > that
> > > engine weight on top of it or because the front pumpkin is off
> > > center
> > > maybe.
> > >
> > > You might want to keep this in mind for the units that suddenly need
> > > off
> > > set or adjustable ball joints....
> > >
> > > I take that back about not hearing about the front ones being bent.
> > > We
> > > are likely discussing that in this thread and that is likely the
> > > reason
> > > for the afterthought part or adjustable ball joint eh?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > tim bur wrote:
> > > >
> > > > please explain to me how jacking up a axle by the center unit
> > > changes camber
> > > > since i do at least 3 aligments a week i need to know this hehehe
> > >
> > > >
> > > > DougW wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bulletsnbrains did pass the time by typing:
> > > > > > Suggest slowing down on corners.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Else, try another alignment shop and have them double check
> > > the toe in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Check camber also
> > > > > Which on the solid axle can be due to someone jacking the front
> > > end
> > > > > via the diff. (or by hitting a suitibly sized rock)
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeep offers offset ball joints to adjust camber but if the
> > > > > axle is bent there isn't much you can do but replace it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good ref but not for Jeep specs
> > > > > http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/o_tirewear.html
> > > > >
> > > > > > "erthmun" wrote...
> > > > > >> Hey all,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have a '99 JGC Laredo with almost 62K miles on it. Got it
> > > 3 years ago
> > > > > >> with 22K on it. The tires were, for the better part, new.
> > > About a year
> > > > > >> and a half ago I replaced the front tires and had an
> > > alignment. The
> > > > > >> original tires had wore badly on the outside.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> With the new tires and alignment all was good for a while and
> > > the fronts
> > > > > >> started wearing on the outside again, noticed it before the
> > > rest of the
> > > > > >> tread was affected and had another alignment. Noticed the
> > > other day
> > > > > >> that the front tires were going to need replaced again soon
> > > because of
> > > > > >> the outside wear, A G A I N.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Any ideas as to what may be going on ? I can't afford new
> > > tires and
> > > > > >> alignments every year and a half. Please don't suggest a
> > > rotation. I'm
> > > > > >> not planning on that until I'm satisfied they are all going
> > > to wear
> > > > > >> evenly. Planning on replacing the stock shocks with
> > > Bilsteins, then new
> > > > > >> tires, and another alignment. Should I have the dealership
> > > look at the
> > > > > >> front control arms and bushings ???
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Any help appreciated.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> erthmun

tim bur

you know i have been aligning jeeps now 10 years plus and i have yet to use
those offsets even on the lifted ones i have done

Mike Romain wrote:

> You are posting in HTML by the way....
>
> I wonder what is causing the front axle tubes to bend then?
>
> You have to bend something to knock the camber out I would think. Are
> people just slamming curbs with them or something to bend them?
>
> Bent tubes is the only reason you would need to add off set ball joints
> and they now offer them aftermarket.
>
> Mike
>
> tim bur wrote:
> >
> > hmm ok the grands have a alumium center carrier and it will bend
> > inward causing the bearing's to bind up.( THATS WHY U DON'T JACK IT UP
> > THERE)there would have to be a another jeep on top of the one u jack
> > up to bend the rear axle tubes enough to reset the camber on the rear
> > axles but then u would have bent rear axles not axle tubes, the
> > fronts are all steel and do not bend. the new 2005 grands have a front
> > alxe like the liberty;'s and the rears are all new but steel and are
> > electronic
> > it would be hard to jack up a new grand in front by the axle
> > i go by the tire stores all the time and see tr ucks jacked up by the
> > axle housings
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > > The new differentials and axles are too weak to hold the weight of
> > > the
> > > vehicle, so if you jack them up by the pumpkin, the axle tubes bend
> > > down
> > > which throws either the rear wheel camber way off and/or destroys
> > > axle
> > > bearings.
> > >
> > > I haven't heard of this happening on the front because I haven't
> > > seen
> > > anyone stupid enough to jack the front up by the pumpkin with all
> > > that
> > > engine weight on top of it or because the front pumpkin is off
> > > center
> > > maybe.
> > >
> > > You might want to keep this in mind for the units that suddenly need
> > > off
> > > set or adjustable ball joints....
> > >
> > > I take that back about not hearing about the front ones being bent.
> > > We
> > > are likely discussing that in this thread and that is likely the
> > > reason
> > > for the afterthought part or adjustable ball joint eh?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > tim bur wrote:
> > > >
> > > > please explain to me how jacking up a axle by the center unit
> > > changes camber
> > > > since i do at least 3 aligments a week i need to know this hehehe
> > >
> > > >
> > > > DougW wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bulletsnbrains did pass the time by typing:
> > > > > > Suggest slowing down on corners.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Else, try another alignment shop and have them double check
> > > the toe in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Check camber also
> > > > > Which on the solid axle can be due to someone jacking the front
> > > end
> > > > > via the diff. (or by hitting a suitibly sized rock)
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeep offers offset ball joints to adjust camber but if the
> > > > > axle is bent there isn't much you can do but replace it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good ref but not for Jeep specs
> > > > > http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/o_tirewear.html
> > > > >
> > > > > > "erthmun" wrote...
> > > > > >> Hey all,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have a '99 JGC Laredo with almost 62K miles on it. Got it
> > > 3 years ago
> > > > > >> with 22K on it. The tires were, for the better part, new.
> > > About a year
> > > > > >> and a half ago I replaced the front tires and had an
> > > alignment. The
> > > > > >> original tires had wore badly on the outside.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> With the new tires and alignment all was good for a while and
> > > the fronts
> > > > > >> started wearing on the outside again, noticed it before the
> > > rest of the
> > > > > >> tread was affected and had another alignment. Noticed the
> > > other day
> > > > > >> that the front tires were going to need replaced again soon
> > > because of
> > > > > >> the outside wear, A G A I N.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Any ideas as to what may be going on ? I can't afford new
> > > tires and
> > > > > >> alignments every year and a half. Please don't suggest a
> > > rotation. I'm
> > > > > >> not planning on that until I'm satisfied they are all going
> > > to wear
> > > > > >> evenly. Planning on replacing the stock shocks with
> > > Bilsteins, then new
> > > > > >> tires, and another alignment. Should I have the dealership
> > > look at the
> > > > > >> front control arms and bushings ???
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Any help appreciated.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> erthmun

tim bur

you know i have been aligning jeeps now 10 years plus and i have yet to use
those offsets even on the lifted ones i have done

Mike Romain wrote:

> You are posting in HTML by the way....
>
> I wonder what is causing the front axle tubes to bend then?
>
> You have to bend something to knock the camber out I would think. Are
> people just slamming curbs with them or something to bend them?
>
> Bent tubes is the only reason you would need to add off set ball joints
> and they now offer them aftermarket.
>
> Mike
>
> tim bur wrote:
> >
> > hmm ok the grands have a alumium center carrier and it will bend
> > inward causing the bearing's to bind up.( THATS WHY U DON'T JACK IT UP
> > THERE)there would have to be a another jeep on top of the one u jack
> > up to bend the rear axle tubes enough to reset the camber on the rear
> > axles but then u would have bent rear axles not axle tubes, the
> > fronts are all steel and do not bend. the new 2005 grands have a front
> > alxe like the liberty;'s and the rears are all new but steel and are
> > electronic
> > it would be hard to jack up a new grand in front by the axle
> > i go by the tire stores all the time and see tr ucks jacked up by the
> > axle housings
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > > The new differentials and axles are too weak to hold the weight of
> > > the
> > > vehicle, so if you jack them up by the pumpkin, the axle tubes bend
> > > down
> > > which throws either the rear wheel camber way off and/or destroys
> > > axle
> > > bearings.
> > >
> > > I haven't heard of this happening on the front because I haven't
> > > seen
> > > anyone stupid enough to jack the front up by the pumpkin with all
> > > that
> > > engine weight on top of it or because the front pumpkin is off
> > > center
> > > maybe.
> > >
> > > You might want to keep this in mind for the units that suddenly need
> > > off
> > > set or adjustable ball joints....
> > >
> > > I take that back about not hearing about the front ones being bent.
> > > We
> > > are likely discussing that in this thread and that is likely the
> > > reason
> > > for the afterthought part or adjustable ball joint eh?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > tim bur wrote:
> > > >
> > > > please explain to me how jacking up a axle by the center unit
> > > changes camber
> > > > since i do at least 3 aligments a week i need to know this hehehe
> > >
> > > >
> > > > DougW wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bulletsnbrains did pass the time by typing:
> > > > > > Suggest slowing down on corners.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Else, try another alignment shop and have them double check
> > > the toe in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Check camber also
> > > > > Which on the solid axle can be due to someone jacking the front
> > > end
> > > > > via the diff. (or by hitting a suitibly sized rock)
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeep offers offset ball joints to adjust camber but if the
> > > > > axle is bent there isn't much you can do but replace it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good ref but not for Jeep specs
> > > > > http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/o_tirewear.html
> > > > >
> > > > > > "erthmun" wrote...
> > > > > >> Hey all,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have a '99 JGC Laredo with almost 62K miles on it. Got it
> > > 3 years ago
> > > > > >> with 22K on it. The tires were, for the better part, new.
> > > About a year
> > > > > >> and a half ago I replaced the front tires and had an
> > > alignment. The
> > > > > >> original tires had wore badly on the outside.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> With the new tires and alignment all was good for a while and
> > > the fronts
> > > > > >> started wearing on the outside again, noticed it before the
> > > rest of the
> > > > > >> tread was affected and had another alignment. Noticed the
> > > other day
> > > > > >> that the front tires were going to need replaced again soon
> > > because of
> > > > > >> the outside wear, A G A I N.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Any ideas as to what may be going on ? I can't afford new
> > > tires and
> > > > > >> alignments every year and a half. Please don't suggest a
> > > rotation. I'm
> > > > > >> not planning on that until I'm satisfied they are all going
> > > to wear
> > > > > >> evenly. Planning on replacing the stock shocks with
> > > Bilsteins, then new
> > > > > >> tires, and another alignment. Should I have the dealership
> > > look at the
> > > > > >> front control arms and bushings ???
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Any help appreciated.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> erthmun

erthmun

Thanks for the input y'all. Didn't mean to cause a "stir" in here. Will have
to put a bug up the dealerships a$$ to check the tie rods and ball joints and
anything else that might possibly be the cause. Of course, the first idea of
slowing in the corners might be a good idea also 8) All the miles on this are
street with the occasional "coquina highways" we have here down in coastal
south carolina. So, unless a previous accident or hard driving over logs was
what the first owner did I can't imagine what would cause a bent tie rod. If
that's the case it seems the dealer misrepresented the vehicle when I bought
it. Either way, I'll let you know what the verdict is. Thanks again all !

erthmun

tim bur wrote:

> you know i have been aligning jeeps now 10 years plus and i have yet to use
> those offsets even on the lifted ones i have done
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
>
> > You are posting in HTML by the way....
> >
> > I wonder what is causing the front axle tubes to bend then?
> >
> > You have to bend something to knock the camber out I would think. Are
> > people just slamming curbs with them or something to bend them?
> >
> > Bent tubes is the only reason you would need to add off set ball joints
> > and they now offer them aftermarket.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > tim bur wrote:
> > >
> > > hmm ok the grands have a alumium center carrier and it will bend
> > > inward causing the bearing's to bind up.( THATS WHY U DON'T JACK IT UP
> > > THERE)there would have to be a another jeep on top of the one u jack
> > > up to bend the rear axle tubes enough to reset the camber on the rear
> > > axles but then u would have bent rear axles not axle tubes, the
> > > fronts are all steel and do not bend. the new 2005 grands have a front
> > > alxe like the liberty;'s and the rears are all new but steel and are
> > > electronic
> > > it would be hard to jack up a new grand in front by the axle
> > > i go by the tire stores all the time and see tr ucks jacked up by the
> > > axle housings
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > > The new differentials and axles are too weak to hold the weight of
> > > > the
> > > > vehicle, so if you jack them up by the pumpkin, the axle tubes bend
> > > > down
> > > > which throws either the rear wheel camber way off and/or destroys
> > > > axle
> > > > bearings.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't heard of this happening on the front because I haven't
> > > > seen
> > > > anyone stupid enough to jack the front up by the pumpkin with all
> > > > that
> > > > engine weight on top of it or because the front pumpkin is off
> > > > center
> > > > maybe.
> > > >
> > > > You might want to keep this in mind for the units that suddenly need
> > > > off
> > > > set or adjustable ball joints....
> > > >
> > > > I take that back about not hearing about the front ones being bent.
> > > > We
> > > > are likely discussing that in this thread and that is likely the
> > > > reason
> > > > for the afterthought part or adjustable ball joint eh?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > tim bur wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > please explain to me how jacking up a axle by the center unit
> > > > changes camber
> > > > > since i do at least 3 aligments a week i need to know this hehehe
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > DougW wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Bulletsnbrains did pass the time by typing:
> > > > > > > Suggest slowing down on corners.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Else, try another alignment shop and have them double check
> > > > the toe in.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Check camber also
> > > > > > Which on the solid axle can be due to someone jacking the front
> > > > end
> > > > > > via the diff. (or by hitting a suitibly sized rock)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jeep offers offset ball joints to adjust camber but if the
> > > > > > axle is bent there isn't much you can do but replace it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good ref but not for Jeep specs
> > > > > > http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/o_tirewear.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > "erthmun" wrote...
> > > > > > >> Hey all,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I have a '99 JGC Laredo with almost 62K miles on it. Got it
> > > > 3 years ago
> > > > > > >> with 22K on it. The tires were, for the better part, new.
> > > > About a year
> > > > > > >> and a half ago I replaced the front tires and had an
> > > > alignment. The
> > > > > > >> original tires had wore badly on the outside.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> With the new tires and alignment all was good for a while and
> > > > the fronts
> > > > > > >> started wearing on the outside again, noticed it before the
> > > > rest of the
> > > > > > >> tread was affected and had another alignment. Noticed the
> > > > other day
> > > > > > >> that the front tires were going to need replaced again soon
> > > > because of
> > > > > > >> the outside wear, A G A I N.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Any ideas as to what may be going on ? I can't afford new
> > > > tires and
> > > > > > >> alignments every year and a half. Please don't suggest a
> > > > rotation. I'm
> > > > > > >> not planning on that until I'm satisfied they are all going
> > > > to wear
> > > > > > >> evenly. Planning on replacing the stock shocks with
> > > > Bilsteins, then new
> > > > > > >> tires, and another alignment. Should I have the dealership
> > > > look at the
> > > > > > >> front control arms and bushings ???
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Any help appreciated.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> erthmun

erthmun

Thanks for the input y'all. Didn't mean to cause a "stir" in here. Will have
to put a bug up the dealerships a$$ to check the tie rods and ball joints and
anything else that might possibly be the cause. Of course, the first idea of
slowing in the corners might be a good idea also 8) All the miles on this are
street with the occasional "coquina highways" we have here down in coastal
south carolina. So, unless a previous accident or hard driving over logs was
what the first owner did I can't imagine what would cause a bent tie rod. If
that's the case it seems the dealer misrepresented the vehicle when I bought
it. Either way, I'll let you know what the verdict is. Thanks again all !

erthmun

tim bur wrote:

> you know i have been aligning jeeps now 10 years plus and i have yet to use
> those offsets even on the lifted ones i have done
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
>
> > You are posting in HTML by the way....
> >
> > I wonder what is causing the front axle tubes to bend then?
> >
> > You have to bend something to knock the camber out I would think. Are
> > people just slamming curbs with them or something to bend them?
> >
> > Bent tubes is the only reason you would need to add off set ball joints
> > and they now offer them aftermarket.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > tim bur wrote:
> > >
> > > hmm ok the grands have a alumium center carrier and it will bend
> > > inward causing the bearing's to bind up.( THATS WHY U DON'T JACK IT UP
> > > THERE)there would have to be a another jeep on top of the one u jack
> > > up to bend the rear axle tubes enough to reset the camber on the rear
> > > axles but then u would have bent rear axles not axle tubes, the
> > > fronts are all steel and do not bend. the new 2005 grands have a front
> > > alxe like the liberty;'s and the rears are all new but steel and are
> > > electronic
> > > it would be hard to jack up a new grand in front by the axle
> > > i go by the tire stores all the time and see tr ucks jacked up by the
> > > axle housings
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > > The new differentials and axles are too weak to hold the weight of
> > > > the
> > > > vehicle, so if you jack them up by the pumpkin, the axle tubes bend
> > > > down
> > > > which throws either the rear wheel camber way off and/or destroys
> > > > axle
> > > > bearings.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't heard of this happening on the front because I haven't
> > > > seen
> > > > anyone stupid enough to jack the front up by the pumpkin with all
> > > > that
> > > > engine weight on top of it or because the front pumpkin is off
> > > > center
> > > > maybe.
> > > >
> > > > You might want to keep this in mind for the units that suddenly need
> > > > off
> > > > set or adjustable ball joints....
> > > >
> > > > I take that back about not hearing about the front ones being bent.
> > > > We
> > > > are likely discussing that in this thread and that is likely the
> > > > reason
> > > > for the afterthought part or adjustable ball joint eh?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > tim bur wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > please explain to me how jacking up a axle by the center unit
> > > > changes camber
> > > > > since i do at least 3 aligments a week i need to know this hehehe
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > DougW wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Bulletsnbrains did pass the time by typing:
> > > > > > > Suggest slowing down on corners.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Else, try another alignment shop and have them double check
> > > > the toe in.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Check camber also
> > > > > > Which on the solid axle can be due to someone jacking the front
> > > > end
> > > > > > via the diff. (or by hitting a suitibly sized rock)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jeep offers offset ball joints to adjust camber but if the
> > > > > > axle is bent there isn't much you can do but replace it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good ref but not for Jeep specs
> > > > > > http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/o_tirewear.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > "erthmun" wrote...
> > > > > > >> Hey all,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I have a '99 JGC Laredo with almost 62K miles on it. Got it
> > > > 3 years ago
> > > > > > >> with 22K on it. The tires were, for the better part, new.
> > > > About a year
> > > > > > >> and a half ago I replaced the front tires and had an
> > > > alignment. The
> > > > > > >> original tires had wore badly on the outside.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> With the new tires and alignment all was good for a while and
> > > > the fronts
> > > > > > >> started wearing on the outside again, noticed it before the
> > > > rest of the
> > > > > > >> tread was affected and had another alignment. Noticed the
> > > > other day
> > > > > > >> that the front tires were going to need replaced again soon
> > > > because of
> > > > > > >> the outside wear, A G A I N.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Any ideas as to what may be going on ? I can't afford new
> > > > tires and
> > > > > > >> alignments every year and a half. Please don't suggest a
> > > > rotation. I'm
> > > > > > >> not planning on that until I'm satisfied they are all going
> > > > to wear
> > > > > > >> evenly. Planning on replacing the stock shocks with
> > > > Bilsteins, then new
> > > > > > >> tires, and another alignment. Should I have the dealership
> > > > look at the
> > > > > > >> front control arms and bushings ???
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Any help appreciated.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> erthmun