Earle Horton

Buy a stethoscope. Even the fancy Littmann medical scope that I have, with
my initials engraved on the probe, was less than a hundred bucks. The cheap
ones are a lot less, and function almost as well.

Earle

"Keith Orbell" <quite98@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JIWdnc9cjLaMTlfenZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
> I posted a couple of weeks ago concerning a problem with my 97 TJ (4cyl,
> auto, 130K) and a lack of power at freeway speeds. I got some good
> suggestions on here, the general consensus being that it could be a
plugged
> catalytic converter.
>
> After that post, the problem apparently went away - until this past Friday
> when the car lost almost all power, but I was able to limp it home using
> very light throttle openings to (eventually) reach about 25/30 mph.
>
> Yesterday, I got it to the shop to have a new cat fitted. This has
restored
> the power but now another (somewhat more serious sounding) problem is
> evident:
>
> I now have a ticking or tapping sound which gets faster with increased
> engine speed and louder under wider throttle openings. At idle or when
> cruising or when revving the engine gently at a standstill, you can't hear
> the noise. But when any load is applied to the engine, the noise is
> apparent.
>
> I made a couple of mp3s to document the sound. The first is the vehicle
> standing - you can hear the noise when I applied rapid throttle (0:01,
0:13,
> 0:19), but not when applying gentle throttle (0:03, 0:22) to reach the
same
> engine speeds:
>
> http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep0.mp3
>
> The second is a short cruise around the block. You can pretty much hear it
> at any time I accelerated:
>
> http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep1.mp3
>
> I presume that in limping the vehicle home and to the shop, I broke
> something. Under the hood, it sounds like it's coming from the top end of
> the engine - but I don't have a stethoscope or anything to be able to say
> for sure.
>
> Any ideas here on what this could be ?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help
> Keith
>
>

Earle Horton

Buy a stethoscope. Even the fancy Littmann medical scope that I have, with
my initials engraved on the probe, was less than a hundred bucks. The cheap
ones are a lot less, and function almost as well.

Earle

"Keith Orbell" <quite98@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JIWdnc9cjLaMTlfenZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
> I posted a couple of weeks ago concerning a problem with my 97 TJ (4cyl,
> auto, 130K) and a lack of power at freeway speeds. I got some good
> suggestions on here, the general consensus being that it could be a
plugged
> catalytic converter.
>
> After that post, the problem apparently went away - until this past Friday
> when the car lost almost all power, but I was able to limp it home using
> very light throttle openings to (eventually) reach about 25/30 mph.
>
> Yesterday, I got it to the shop to have a new cat fitted. This has
restored
> the power but now another (somewhat more serious sounding) problem is
> evident:
>
> I now have a ticking or tapping sound which gets faster with increased
> engine speed and louder under wider throttle openings. At idle or when
> cruising or when revving the engine gently at a standstill, you can't hear
> the noise. But when any load is applied to the engine, the noise is
> apparent.
>
> I made a couple of mp3s to document the sound. The first is the vehicle
> standing - you can hear the noise when I applied rapid throttle (0:01,
0:13,
> 0:19), but not when applying gentle throttle (0:03, 0:22) to reach the
same
> engine speeds:
>
> http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep0.mp3
>
> The second is a short cruise around the block. You can pretty much hear it
> at any time I accelerated:
>
> http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep1.mp3
>
> I presume that in limping the vehicle home and to the shop, I broke
> something. Under the hood, it sounds like it's coming from the top end of
> the engine - but I don't have a stethoscope or anything to be able to say
> for sure.
>
> Any ideas here on what this could be ?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help
> Keith
>
>

Mike Romain

Well, if they are anything like the incompetent butchers that changed
our Cherokee's exhaust, you sure could now have a cracked manifold.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Keith Orbell wrote:
>
> I posted a couple of weeks ago concerning a problem with my 97 TJ (4cyl,
> auto, 130K) and a lack of power at freeway speeds. I got some good
> suggestions on here, the general consensus being that it could be a plugged
> catalytic converter.
>
> After that post, the problem apparently went away - until this past Friday
> when the car lost almost all power, but I was able to limp it home using
> very light throttle openings to (eventually) reach about 25/30 mph.
>
> Yesterday, I got it to the shop to have a new cat fitted. This has restored
> the power but now another (somewhat more serious sounding) problem is
> evident:
>
> I now have a ticking or tapping sound which gets faster with increased
> engine speed and louder under wider throttle openings. At idle or when
> cruising or when revving the engine gently at a standstill, you can't hear
> the noise. But when any load is applied to the engine, the noise is
> apparent.
>
> I made a couple of mp3s to document the sound. The first is the vehicle
> standing - you can hear the noise when I applied rapid throttle (0:01, 0:13,
> 0:19), but not when applying gentle throttle (0:03, 0:22) to reach the same
> engine speeds:
>
> http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep0.mp3
>
> The second is a short cruise around the block. You can pretty much hear it
> at any time I accelerated:
>
> http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep1.mp3
>
> I presume that in limping the vehicle home and to the shop, I broke
> something. Under the hood, it sounds like it's coming from the top end of
> the engine - but I don't have a stethoscope or anything to be able to say
> for sure.
>
> Any ideas here on what this could be ?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help
> Keith

Mike Romain

Well, if they are anything like the incompetent butchers that changed
our Cherokee's exhaust, you sure could now have a cracked manifold.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Keith Orbell wrote:
>
> I posted a couple of weeks ago concerning a problem with my 97 TJ (4cyl,
> auto, 130K) and a lack of power at freeway speeds. I got some good
> suggestions on here, the general consensus being that it could be a plugged
> catalytic converter.
>
> After that post, the problem apparently went away - until this past Friday
> when the car lost almost all power, but I was able to limp it home using
> very light throttle openings to (eventually) reach about 25/30 mph.
>
> Yesterday, I got it to the shop to have a new cat fitted. This has restored
> the power but now another (somewhat more serious sounding) problem is
> evident:
>
> I now have a ticking or tapping sound which gets faster with increased
> engine speed and louder under wider throttle openings. At idle or when
> cruising or when revving the engine gently at a standstill, you can't hear
> the noise. But when any load is applied to the engine, the noise is
> apparent.
>
> I made a couple of mp3s to document the sound. The first is the vehicle
> standing - you can hear the noise when I applied rapid throttle (0:01, 0:13,
> 0:19), but not when applying gentle throttle (0:03, 0:22) to reach the same
> engine speeds:
>
> http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep0.mp3
>
> The second is a short cruise around the block. You can pretty much hear it
> at any time I accelerated:
>
> http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep1.mp3
>
> I presume that in limping the vehicle home and to the shop, I broke
> something. Under the hood, it sounds like it's coming from the top end of
> the engine - but I don't have a stethoscope or anything to be able to say
> for sure.
>
> Any ideas here on what this could be ?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help
> Keith

Mike Romain

Well, if they are anything like the incompetent butchers that changed
our Cherokee's exhaust, you sure could now have a cracked manifold.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Keith Orbell wrote:
>
> I posted a couple of weeks ago concerning a problem with my 97 TJ (4cyl,
> auto, 130K) and a lack of power at freeway speeds. I got some good
> suggestions on here, the general consensus being that it could be a plugged
> catalytic converter.
>
> After that post, the problem apparently went away - until this past Friday
> when the car lost almost all power, but I was able to limp it home using
> very light throttle openings to (eventually) reach about 25/30 mph.
>
> Yesterday, I got it to the shop to have a new cat fitted. This has restored
> the power but now another (somewhat more serious sounding) problem is
> evident:
>
> I now have a ticking or tapping sound which gets faster with increased
> engine speed and louder under wider throttle openings. At idle or when
> cruising or when revving the engine gently at a standstill, you can't hear
> the noise. But when any load is applied to the engine, the noise is
> apparent.
>
> I made a couple of mp3s to document the sound. The first is the vehicle
> standing - you can hear the noise when I applied rapid throttle (0:01, 0:13,
> 0:19), but not when applying gentle throttle (0:03, 0:22) to reach the same
> engine speeds:
>
> http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep0.mp3
>
> The second is a short cruise around the block. You can pretty much hear it
> at any time I accelerated:
>
> http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep1.mp3
>
> I presume that in limping the vehicle home and to the shop, I broke
> something. Under the hood, it sounds like it's coming from the top end of
> the engine - but I don't have a stethoscope or anything to be able to say
> for sure.
>
> Any ideas here on what this could be ?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help
> Keith

Earle Horton

Heh, four, v8 and v6 exhaust manifolds are pretty tough, simply because they
are shorter and the hooligans who call themselves mechanics usually can't
get enough leverage to break them. That is not to say that they didn't make
the manifold to header pipe joint leak. I was thinking exhaust problem too,
because of the proximity to the catalytic converter repair. It is hard to
see how the OP could have damaged internal engine parts, but there is always
a first time.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:43CBAB19.56F0E68B@sympatico.ca...
> Well, if they are anything like the incompetent butchers that changed
> our Cherokee's exhaust, you sure could now have a cracked manifold.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Keith Orbell wrote:
> >
> > I posted a couple of weeks ago concerning a problem with my 97 TJ (4cyl,
> > auto, 130K) and a lack of power at freeway speeds. I got some good
> > suggestions on here, the general consensus being that it could be a
plugged
> > catalytic converter.
> >
> > After that post, the problem apparently went away - until this past
Friday
> > when the car lost almost all power, but I was able to limp it home using
> > very light throttle openings to (eventually) reach about 25/30 mph.
> >
> > Yesterday, I got it to the shop to have a new cat fitted. This has
restored
> > the power but now another (somewhat more serious sounding) problem is
> > evident:
> >
> > I now have a ticking or tapping sound which gets faster with increased
> > engine speed and louder under wider throttle openings. At idle or when
> > cruising or when revving the engine gently at a standstill, you can't
hear
> > the noise. But when any load is applied to the engine, the noise is
> > apparent.
> >
> > I made a couple of mp3s to document the sound. The first is the vehicle
> > standing - you can hear the noise when I applied rapid throttle (0:01,
0:13,
> > 0:19), but not when applying gentle throttle (0:03, 0:22) to reach the
same
> > engine speeds:
> >
> > http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep0.mp3
> >
> > The second is a short cruise around the block. You can pretty much hear
it
> > at any time I accelerated:
> >
> > http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep1.mp3
> >
> > I presume that in limping the vehicle home and to the shop, I broke
> > something. Under the hood, it sounds like it's coming from the top end
of
> > the engine - but I don't have a stethoscope or anything to be able to
say
> > for sure.
> >
> > Any ideas here on what this could be ?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help
> > Keith

Earle Horton

Heh, four, v8 and v6 exhaust manifolds are pretty tough, simply because they
are shorter and the hooligans who call themselves mechanics usually can't
get enough leverage to break them. That is not to say that they didn't make
the manifold to header pipe joint leak. I was thinking exhaust problem too,
because of the proximity to the catalytic converter repair. It is hard to
see how the OP could have damaged internal engine parts, but there is always
a first time.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:43CBAB19.56F0E68B@sympatico.ca...
> Well, if they are anything like the incompetent butchers that changed
> our Cherokee's exhaust, you sure could now have a cracked manifold.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Keith Orbell wrote:
> >
> > I posted a couple of weeks ago concerning a problem with my 97 TJ (4cyl,
> > auto, 130K) and a lack of power at freeway speeds. I got some good
> > suggestions on here, the general consensus being that it could be a
plugged
> > catalytic converter.
> >
> > After that post, the problem apparently went away - until this past
Friday
> > when the car lost almost all power, but I was able to limp it home using
> > very light throttle openings to (eventually) reach about 25/30 mph.
> >
> > Yesterday, I got it to the shop to have a new cat fitted. This has
restored
> > the power but now another (somewhat more serious sounding) problem is
> > evident:
> >
> > I now have a ticking or tapping sound which gets faster with increased
> > engine speed and louder under wider throttle openings. At idle or when
> > cruising or when revving the engine gently at a standstill, you can't
hear
> > the noise. But when any load is applied to the engine, the noise is
> > apparent.
> >
> > I made a couple of mp3s to document the sound. The first is the vehicle
> > standing - you can hear the noise when I applied rapid throttle (0:01,
0:13,
> > 0:19), but not when applying gentle throttle (0:03, 0:22) to reach the
same
> > engine speeds:
> >
> > http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep0.mp3
> >
> > The second is a short cruise around the block. You can pretty much hear
it
> > at any time I accelerated:
> >
> > http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep1.mp3
> >
> > I presume that in limping the vehicle home and to the shop, I broke
> > something. Under the hood, it sounds like it's coming from the top end
of
> > the engine - but I don't have a stethoscope or anything to be able to
say
> > for sure.
> >
> > Any ideas here on what this could be ?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help
> > Keith

Earle Horton

Heh, four, v8 and v6 exhaust manifolds are pretty tough, simply because they
are shorter and the hooligans who call themselves mechanics usually can't
get enough leverage to break them. That is not to say that they didn't make
the manifold to header pipe joint leak. I was thinking exhaust problem too,
because of the proximity to the catalytic converter repair. It is hard to
see how the OP could have damaged internal engine parts, but there is always
a first time.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:43CBAB19.56F0E68B@sympatico.ca...
> Well, if they are anything like the incompetent butchers that changed
> our Cherokee's exhaust, you sure could now have a cracked manifold.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Keith Orbell wrote:
> >
> > I posted a couple of weeks ago concerning a problem with my 97 TJ (4cyl,
> > auto, 130K) and a lack of power at freeway speeds. I got some good
> > suggestions on here, the general consensus being that it could be a
plugged
> > catalytic converter.
> >
> > After that post, the problem apparently went away - until this past
Friday
> > when the car lost almost all power, but I was able to limp it home using
> > very light throttle openings to (eventually) reach about 25/30 mph.
> >
> > Yesterday, I got it to the shop to have a new cat fitted. This has
restored
> > the power but now another (somewhat more serious sounding) problem is
> > evident:
> >
> > I now have a ticking or tapping sound which gets faster with increased
> > engine speed and louder under wider throttle openings. At idle or when
> > cruising or when revving the engine gently at a standstill, you can't
hear
> > the noise. But when any load is applied to the engine, the noise is
> > apparent.
> >
> > I made a couple of mp3s to document the sound. The first is the vehicle
> > standing - you can hear the noise when I applied rapid throttle (0:01,
0:13,
> > 0:19), but not when applying gentle throttle (0:03, 0:22) to reach the
same
> > engine speeds:
> >
> > http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep0.mp3
> >
> > The second is a short cruise around the block. You can pretty much hear
it
> > at any time I accelerated:
> >
> > http://www.aooa27.dsl.pipex.com/jeep1.mp3
> >
> > I presume that in limping the vehicle home and to the shop, I broke
> > something. Under the hood, it sounds like it's coming from the top end
of
> > the engine - but I don't have a stethoscope or anything to be able to
say
> > for sure.
> >
> > Any ideas here on what this could be ?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help
> > Keith

Lon

I had a free warranty cat replacement where the new cat had a notch at
the end of the pipe that lined up perfectly with a similar one at the
back end of the exhisting pipe from the manifold. Made a very similar
sound until fixed.

Will Honea proclaimed:
> That does sound like mine when the CPS was shorting against the
> manifold. As for the noise, since they worked on the exhaust I would
> first check for either a loose downpipe or a cracked ehaust manifold.
> Thye may have played Tarzan on the pipes while fitting the new cat -
> of just not gotten it seated right.
>
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 00:33:28 UTC L.W.(ßill) ------ III
> <----------@***.net> wrote:
>
>
>> The limp mode should default to the initial timing so it would be
>>impossible to spark knock.
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>>DougW wrote:
>>
>>>That's what I'm thinking.
>>>
>>>I'm also thinking the ECU hasn't adjusted back from where it was
>>>and the OP should take the battery off for about half an hour and
>>>then let it re-learn.
>
>
>

Lon

I had a free warranty cat replacement where the new cat had a notch at
the end of the pipe that lined up perfectly with a similar one at the
back end of the exhisting pipe from the manifold. Made a very similar
sound until fixed.

Will Honea proclaimed:
> That does sound like mine when the CPS was shorting against the
> manifold. As for the noise, since they worked on the exhaust I would
> first check for either a loose downpipe or a cracked ehaust manifold.
> Thye may have played Tarzan on the pipes while fitting the new cat -
> of just not gotten it seated right.
>
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 00:33:28 UTC L.W.(ßill) ------ III
> <----------@***.net> wrote:
>
>
>> The limp mode should default to the initial timing so it would be
>>impossible to spark knock.
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>>DougW wrote:
>>
>>>That's what I'm thinking.
>>>
>>>I'm also thinking the ECU hasn't adjusted back from where it was
>>>and the OP should take the battery off for about half an hour and
>>>then let it re-learn.
>
>
>