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Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
SteveBrady did pass the time by typing:
> I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed > my rear brakes to be adjusted. > And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old > wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't > catch on. That mechanic is about as full of ---- as the U.S. sewer system during SuperBowl half-time. > I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star' > but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse > thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? http://www.dippy.org/svcman/sm05b.html With some systems you can tug on the e-brake and adjust them a bit quicker. -- DougW |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
SteveBrady did pass the time by typing:
> I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed > my rear brakes to be adjusted. > And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old > wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't > catch on. That mechanic is about as full of ---- as the U.S. sewer system during SuperBowl half-time. > I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star' > but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse > thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? http://www.dippy.org/svcman/sm05b.html With some systems you can tug on the e-brake and adjust them a bit quicker. -- DougW |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
Mike, I hope you have this newsgroup on a 7second delay so you can catch my
cussing! that's the 2nd time they've tried to bend me over....They are better than the dealership though....so other choices go for ma/pa shops I guess. "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:41E9AAF3.80B1E513@sympatico.ca... > Wow, how dumb do they think folks are..... Even the old CJ's have > automatic adjusters! > > The star wheel has a bar resting on it. There is a cable running from > this bar, around the shoe pivot and hooks on the top center lug. > > The shoes do not fit snug up top, they can shift about 1/2" back to > front. > > So when you hit the brakes going forward, it sets the brakes in their > 'normal' position. Then when you hit the brakes in reverse, the shoes > move that 1/2" in rotation and pull on the cable and cocks the little > arm up against the star wheel. Then when you hit the brakes in forward > again, it fires it and adjusts it one notch. The notches are rounded, > so when the shoes are tight, the arm just slips over the star wheel. > > I put antiseize on my components, especially the star wheel threads and > my adjusters always work right until the shoes are worn out. > > My local auto stores sell all the components if you are missing any. > They have spring kits, adjusters, cables, etc. > > Bill has a link to a photo of the guts I believe. > > Mike > > SteveBrady wrote: >> >> I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I >> needed >> my rear brakes to be adjusted. >> And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an >> old >> wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't >> catch on. >> >> I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting >> 'star' >> but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse >> thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message >> news:41E81D0E.20F93A71@sympatico.ca... >> > You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually >> > need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working. >> > The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after >> > hitting them in the forward direction to ---- it. >> > >> > This also usually means the emergency brake will be at the end or >> > almost >> > all the way out. >> > >> > Mike >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's >> > >> > mdfranci@airmail.net wrote: >> >> >> >> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the >> >> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend >> >> and >> >> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I >> >> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they >> >> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again >> >> I >> >> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I >> >> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is >> >> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I >> >> was >> >> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in >> >> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II >> >> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed >> >> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car >> >> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can >> >> this be done? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Mike Francis |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
Mike, I hope you have this newsgroup on a 7second delay so you can catch my
cussing! that's the 2nd time they've tried to bend me over....They are better than the dealership though....so other choices go for ma/pa shops I guess. "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:41E9AAF3.80B1E513@sympatico.ca... > Wow, how dumb do they think folks are..... Even the old CJ's have > automatic adjusters! > > The star wheel has a bar resting on it. There is a cable running from > this bar, around the shoe pivot and hooks on the top center lug. > > The shoes do not fit snug up top, they can shift about 1/2" back to > front. > > So when you hit the brakes going forward, it sets the brakes in their > 'normal' position. Then when you hit the brakes in reverse, the shoes > move that 1/2" in rotation and pull on the cable and cocks the little > arm up against the star wheel. Then when you hit the brakes in forward > again, it fires it and adjusts it one notch. The notches are rounded, > so when the shoes are tight, the arm just slips over the star wheel. > > I put antiseize on my components, especially the star wheel threads and > my adjusters always work right until the shoes are worn out. > > My local auto stores sell all the components if you are missing any. > They have spring kits, adjusters, cables, etc. > > Bill has a link to a photo of the guts I believe. > > Mike > > SteveBrady wrote: >> >> I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I >> needed >> my rear brakes to be adjusted. >> And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an >> old >> wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't >> catch on. >> >> I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting >> 'star' >> but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse >> thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message >> news:41E81D0E.20F93A71@sympatico.ca... >> > You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually >> > need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working. >> > The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after >> > hitting them in the forward direction to ---- it. >> > >> > This also usually means the emergency brake will be at the end or >> > almost >> > all the way out. >> > >> > Mike >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's >> > >> > mdfranci@airmail.net wrote: >> >> >> >> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the >> >> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend >> >> and >> >> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I >> >> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they >> >> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again >> >> I >> >> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I >> >> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is >> >> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I >> >> was >> >> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in >> >> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II >> >> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed >> >> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car >> >> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can >> >> this be done? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Mike Francis |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
Mike, I hope you have this newsgroup on a 7second delay so you can catch my
cussing! that's the 2nd time they've tried to bend me over....They are better than the dealership though....so other choices go for ma/pa shops I guess. "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:41E9AAF3.80B1E513@sympatico.ca... > Wow, how dumb do they think folks are..... Even the old CJ's have > automatic adjusters! > > The star wheel has a bar resting on it. There is a cable running from > this bar, around the shoe pivot and hooks on the top center lug. > > The shoes do not fit snug up top, they can shift about 1/2" back to > front. > > So when you hit the brakes going forward, it sets the brakes in their > 'normal' position. Then when you hit the brakes in reverse, the shoes > move that 1/2" in rotation and pull on the cable and cocks the little > arm up against the star wheel. Then when you hit the brakes in forward > again, it fires it and adjusts it one notch. The notches are rounded, > so when the shoes are tight, the arm just slips over the star wheel. > > I put antiseize on my components, especially the star wheel threads and > my adjusters always work right until the shoes are worn out. > > My local auto stores sell all the components if you are missing any. > They have spring kits, adjusters, cables, etc. > > Bill has a link to a photo of the guts I believe. > > Mike > > SteveBrady wrote: >> >> I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I >> needed >> my rear brakes to be adjusted. >> And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an >> old >> wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't >> catch on. >> >> I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting >> 'star' >> but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse >> thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message >> news:41E81D0E.20F93A71@sympatico.ca... >> > You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually >> > need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working. >> > The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after >> > hitting them in the forward direction to ---- it. >> > >> > This also usually means the emergency brake will be at the end or >> > almost >> > all the way out. >> > >> > Mike >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's >> > >> > mdfranci@airmail.net wrote: >> >> >> >> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the >> >> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend >> >> and >> >> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I >> >> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they >> >> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again >> >> I >> >> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I >> >> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is >> >> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I >> >> was >> >> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in >> >> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II >> >> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed >> >> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car >> >> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can >> >> this be done? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Mike Francis |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
I think you may see it look at:
http://www.----------.com/44axlebearing.jpg Imagine the the shoes expanding away from the cylinder, driving forward the rear piston is mostly for looks as the the whole shoe assembly rotate against the top anchor, but in reverse it rotates the other way, (clockwise in this picture of a left side) and the rear shoe pulls away from the top anchor that the adjusting cable is hook to, pulling the adjusting lever up at the end of that shoe and cocking it, so that when the cable is released the return spring will pull the lever back into the rest position turning it one notch. It would take hundreds of stops in reverse to adjust shoes not pre adjusted on installation. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/44axlebearing.jpg SteveBrady wrote: > > I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed > my rear brakes to be adjusted. > And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old > wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't > catch on. > > I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star' > but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse > thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
I think you may see it look at:
http://www.----------.com/44axlebearing.jpg Imagine the the shoes expanding away from the cylinder, driving forward the rear piston is mostly for looks as the the whole shoe assembly rotate against the top anchor, but in reverse it rotates the other way, (clockwise in this picture of a left side) and the rear shoe pulls away from the top anchor that the adjusting cable is hook to, pulling the adjusting lever up at the end of that shoe and cocking it, so that when the cable is released the return spring will pull the lever back into the rest position turning it one notch. It would take hundreds of stops in reverse to adjust shoes not pre adjusted on installation. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/44axlebearing.jpg SteveBrady wrote: > > I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed > my rear brakes to be adjusted. > And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old > wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't > catch on. > > I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star' > but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse > thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
I think you may see it look at:
http://www.----------.com/44axlebearing.jpg Imagine the the shoes expanding away from the cylinder, driving forward the rear piston is mostly for looks as the the whole shoe assembly rotate against the top anchor, but in reverse it rotates the other way, (clockwise in this picture of a left side) and the rear shoe pulls away from the top anchor that the adjusting cable is hook to, pulling the adjusting lever up at the end of that shoe and cocking it, so that when the cable is released the return spring will pull the lever back into the rest position turning it one notch. It would take hundreds of stops in reverse to adjust shoes not pre adjusted on installation. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/44axlebearing.jpg SteveBrady wrote: > > I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed > my rear brakes to be adjusted. > And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old > wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't > catch on. > > I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star' > but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse > thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
bled the brakes as you with any car without abs the drb is not needed
mdfranci@airmail.net wrote: > I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the > master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend and > the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I > apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they > travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again I > have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I > need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is > the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I was > told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in > my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II > scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed > the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car > and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can > this be done? > Thanks, > Mike Francis |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
bled the brakes as you with any car without abs the drb is not needed
mdfranci@airmail.net wrote: > I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the > master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend and > the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I > apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they > travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again I > have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I > need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is > the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I was > told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in > my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II > scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed > the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car > and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can > this be done? > Thanks, > Mike Francis |
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