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Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:27:10 -0500, Mike Romain wrote:
> You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually > need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working. > The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after > hitting them in the forward direction to ---- it. Just to add to this - when I replaced my shoes I didn't replace the auto-adjuster springs. For several months after I would hand adjust them out every few weeks only to have the brake pedal start sinking again and a knocking sound produced from the drums. I found some auto-adjuster rebuild kits at Napa (includes new springs and adjuster bolt) and put them on, and they've been working great ever since. If you still have a problem with them after you do what Mike suggested and you don't mind getting back into the drums, you might give those kits a shot. The springs get pretty tired over time. -- becker; email = remove the fruit; |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:27:10 -0500, Mike Romain wrote:
> You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually > need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working. > The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after > hitting them in the forward direction to ---- it. Just to add to this - when I replaced my shoes I didn't replace the auto-adjuster springs. For several months after I would hand adjust them out every few weeks only to have the brake pedal start sinking again and a knocking sound produced from the drums. I found some auto-adjuster rebuild kits at Napa (includes new springs and adjuster bolt) and put them on, and they've been working great ever since. If you still have a problem with them after you do what Mike suggested and you don't mind getting back into the drums, you might give those kits a shot. The springs get pretty tired over time. -- becker; email = remove the fruit; |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:27:10 -0500, Mike Romain wrote:
> You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually > need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working. > The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after > hitting them in the forward direction to ---- it. Just to add to this - when I replaced my shoes I didn't replace the auto-adjuster springs. For several months after I would hand adjust them out every few weeks only to have the brake pedal start sinking again and a knocking sound produced from the drums. I found some auto-adjuster rebuild kits at Napa (includes new springs and adjuster bolt) and put them on, and they've been working great ever since. If you still have a problem with them after you do what Mike suggested and you don't mind getting back into the drums, you might give those kits a shot. The springs get pretty tired over time. -- becker; email = remove the fruit; |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed
my rear brakes to be adjusted. And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't catch on. I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star' but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:41E81D0E.20F93A71@sympatico.ca... > You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually > need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working. > The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after > hitting them in the forward direction to ---- it. > > This also usually means the emergency brake will be at the end or almost > all the way out. > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > mdfranci@airmail.net wrote: >> >> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the >> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend and >> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I >> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they >> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again I >> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I >> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is >> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I was >> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in >> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II >> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed >> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car >> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can >> this be done? >> Thanks, >> Mike Francis |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed
my rear brakes to be adjusted. And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't catch on. I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star' but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:41E81D0E.20F93A71@sympatico.ca... > You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually > need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working. > The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after > hitting them in the forward direction to ---- it. > > This also usually means the emergency brake will be at the end or almost > all the way out. > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > mdfranci@airmail.net wrote: >> >> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the >> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend and >> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I >> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they >> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again I >> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I >> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is >> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I was >> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in >> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II >> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed >> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car >> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can >> this be done? >> Thanks, >> Mike Francis |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed
my rear brakes to be adjusted. And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't catch on. I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star' but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:41E81D0E.20F93A71@sympatico.ca... > You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually > need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working. > The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after > hitting them in the forward direction to ---- it. > > This also usually means the emergency brake will be at the end or almost > all the way out. > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > mdfranci@airmail.net wrote: >> >> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the >> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend and >> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I >> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they >> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again I >> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I >> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is >> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I was >> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in >> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II >> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed >> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car >> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can >> this be done? >> Thanks, >> Mike Francis |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
Wow, how dumb do they think folks are..... Even the old CJ's have
automatic adjusters! The star wheel has a bar resting on it. There is a cable running from this bar, around the shoe pivot and hooks on the top center lug. The shoes do not fit snug up top, they can shift about 1/2" back to front. So when you hit the brakes going forward, it sets the brakes in their 'normal' position. Then when you hit the brakes in reverse, the shoes move that 1/2" in rotation and pull on the cable and cocks the little arm up against the star wheel. Then when you hit the brakes in forward again, it fires it and adjusts it one notch. The notches are rounded, so when the shoes are tight, the arm just slips over the star wheel. I put antiseize on my components, especially the star wheel threads and my adjusters always work right until the shoes are worn out. My local auto stores sell all the components if you are missing any. They have spring kits, adjusters, cables, etc. Bill has a link to a photo of the guts I believe. Mike SteveBrady wrote: > > I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed > my rear brakes to be adjusted. > And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old > wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't > catch on. > > I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star' > but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse > thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:41E81D0E.20F93A71@sympatico.ca... > > You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually > > need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working. > > The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after > > hitting them in the forward direction to ---- it. > > > > This also usually means the emergency brake will be at the end or almost > > all the way out. > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > mdfranci@airmail.net wrote: > >> > >> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the > >> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend and > >> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I > >> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they > >> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again I > >> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I > >> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is > >> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I was > >> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in > >> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II > >> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed > >> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car > >> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can > >> this be done? > >> Thanks, > >> Mike Francis |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
Wow, how dumb do they think folks are..... Even the old CJ's have
automatic adjusters! The star wheel has a bar resting on it. There is a cable running from this bar, around the shoe pivot and hooks on the top center lug. The shoes do not fit snug up top, they can shift about 1/2" back to front. So when you hit the brakes going forward, it sets the brakes in their 'normal' position. Then when you hit the brakes in reverse, the shoes move that 1/2" in rotation and pull on the cable and cocks the little arm up against the star wheel. Then when you hit the brakes in forward again, it fires it and adjusts it one notch. The notches are rounded, so when the shoes are tight, the arm just slips over the star wheel. I put antiseize on my components, especially the star wheel threads and my adjusters always work right until the shoes are worn out. My local auto stores sell all the components if you are missing any. They have spring kits, adjusters, cables, etc. Bill has a link to a photo of the guts I believe. Mike SteveBrady wrote: > > I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed > my rear brakes to be adjusted. > And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old > wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't > catch on. > > I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star' > but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse > thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:41E81D0E.20F93A71@sympatico.ca... > > You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually > > need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working. > > The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after > > hitting them in the forward direction to ---- it. > > > > This also usually means the emergency brake will be at the end or almost > > all the way out. > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > mdfranci@airmail.net wrote: > >> > >> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the > >> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend and > >> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I > >> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they > >> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again I > >> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I > >> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is > >> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I was > >> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in > >> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II > >> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed > >> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car > >> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can > >> this be done? > >> Thanks, > >> Mike Francis |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
Wow, how dumb do they think folks are..... Even the old CJ's have
automatic adjusters! The star wheel has a bar resting on it. There is a cable running from this bar, around the shoe pivot and hooks on the top center lug. The shoes do not fit snug up top, they can shift about 1/2" back to front. So when you hit the brakes going forward, it sets the brakes in their 'normal' position. Then when you hit the brakes in reverse, the shoes move that 1/2" in rotation and pull on the cable and cocks the little arm up against the star wheel. Then when you hit the brakes in forward again, it fires it and adjusts it one notch. The notches are rounded, so when the shoes are tight, the arm just slips over the star wheel. I put antiseize on my components, especially the star wheel threads and my adjusters always work right until the shoes are worn out. My local auto stores sell all the components if you are missing any. They have spring kits, adjusters, cables, etc. Bill has a link to a photo of the guts I believe. Mike SteveBrady wrote: > > I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed > my rear brakes to be adjusted. > And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old > wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't > catch on. > > I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star' > but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse > thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:41E81D0E.20F93A71@sympatico.ca... > > You are describing back brake shoes out of adjustment. They usually > > need to be hand set up before the automatic adjusters start working. > > The automatic adjusters adjust when you hit the brakes in reverse after > > hitting them in the forward direction to ---- it. > > > > This also usually means the emergency brake will be at the end or almost > > all the way out. > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > mdfranci@airmail.net wrote: > >> > >> I have a 94 Grand Cherokee and I think it has a problem with the > >> master cylinder. I changed the brake shoes on the rear this weekend and > >> the front was done last year but I have excessive brake pedal when I > >> apply the brakes. They do not drift down when I apply them, but they > >> travel further down than I would like and if I let go and press again I > >> have full pressure on the brakes like normal. Someone said either I > >> need to bleed the brakes or the master cylinder is at fault. If it is > >> the master cylinder, I can replace it but since it has ABS brakes I was > >> told I cannot bleed the brakes without the DRB II scanner mentioned in > >> my manual. The manual says to bleed as normal, then use the DRB II > >> scanner tool, then bleed again as normal. Is there a way I can bleed > >> the brakes without this tool, someone said I could just start the car > >> and let it idle so the ABS can cycle on and then bleed as normal, can > >> this be done? > >> Thanks, > >> Mike Francis |
Re: 94 Grand Cherokee with ABS, can I bleed the brakes myself?
SteveBrady did pass the time by typing:
> I just had the jeep in for regular maintenance and the guy told me I needed > my rear brakes to be adjusted. > And I brought up the 'automatic adjustment' thing and he said that's an old > wives tale brought in, probably, from some import car design that didn't > catch on. That mechanic is about as full of ---- as the U.S. sewer system during SuperBowl half-time. > I've had the rears apart (different vehicle) and do see the adjusting 'star' > but don't see how it would auto adjust with the whole brake on reverse > thing. Was he feeding me a line to get more business out of me? http://www.dippy.org/svcman/sm05b.html With some systems you can tug on the e-brake and adjust them a bit quicker. -- DougW |
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