Chuck

My kid's Jeep now starts and run for 1-2 seconds, then stalls. I checked
the ohms on the CPS and it's infinite as be between 2-3 pins. I also
check the TPS voltage and fuel pressure and both were fine. The fuel
pressure doesn't drop when the engine cuts out. I'm not sure if the
injectors are shuting down cutting off fuel or the spark is quitting, or
both.

I'm thinking of replacing the pickup coil, but wonder if there's a test
for this. It's a 3 wire model.

BTW, I get no computer codes off the thing.

Thanks for any help.

DougW

Chuck did pass the time by typing:
> My kid's Jeep now starts and run for 1-2 seconds, then stalls. I checked
> the ohms on the CPS and it's infinite as be between 2-3 pins. I also
> check the TPS voltage and fuel pressure and both were fine. The fuel
> pressure doesn't drop when the engine cuts out. I'm not sure if the
> injectors are shuting down cutting off fuel or the spark is quitting, or
> both.
>
> I'm thinking of replacing the pickup coil, but wonder if there's a test
> for this. It's a 3 wire model.
>
> BTW, I get no computer codes off the thing.
>
> Thanks for any help.

http://revbeergoggles.com/cps/

1-2 second run indicates a sensor/relay fault is shutting down the
engine or the computer isn't getting an indication the engine
has actually started. This can be from a failed camshaft position
sensor or crankshaft position sensor. In some cases it can also
be a failing ASD relay or a blown fuse. Some times a faulty ignition
coil can do this as well.

The ASD relay is in the engine relay center
http://revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/fuse-engine.jpg
http://revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/fuse-engine-lid.jpg
You can swap it with the AC relay

Have you checked the distributor for oil?
http://revbeergoggles.com/distributor/

The camshaft position sensor is in there, but to replace
it you have to remove and dissasemble the distributor.
If the distributor has oil/sludge and the rotor can be
moved side (which it shouldn't be able to do) then the
bushing is shot and your better off just putting a new
unit in, as they come with a new sensor.

Now before replacing any sensors, disconnect and reconnect
the harnesses to the Crankshaft and camshaft position
sensors, remove and reinsert the ASD relay, remove and reinsert
the coil feed, and check the distributor for oil.

Also if your measuring sensors use a digital mulitmeter.
Analog multimeters are not safe for use on sensors these
days.

--
DougW

Bob Parkison

Just a thought, this happened to me when the battery went dead and we jumped
started it some seven or so years ago on my old 93 GC 4.0. It was the alarm
system. Once the alarm was (reset) it was OK. If you know this, please
forgive the post.
Bob


"Chuck" <chuck@westmichigan.null> wrote in message
news:slrndh1cqg.1km6.chuck@localhost.localdomain.. .
> My kid's Jeep now starts and run for 1-2 seconds, then stalls. I checked
> the ohms on the CPS and it's infinite as be between 2-3 pins. I also
> check the TPS voltage and fuel pressure and both were fine. The fuel
> pressure doesn't drop when the engine cuts out. I'm not sure if the
> injectors are shuting down cutting off fuel or the spark is quitting, or
> both.
>
> I'm thinking of replacing the pickup coil, but wonder if there's a test
> for this. It's a 3 wire model.
>
> BTW, I get no computer codes off the thing.
>
> Thanks for any help.

DougW

DougW did pass the time by typing:
> Chuck did pass the time by typing:
>> My kid's Jeep now starts and run for 1-2 seconds, then stalls. I checked
>> the ohms on the CPS and it's infinite as be between 2-3 pins. I also
>> check the TPS voltage and fuel pressure and both were fine. The fuel
>> pressure doesn't drop when the engine cuts out. I'm not sure if the
>> injectors are shuting down cutting off fuel or the spark is quitting, or
>> both.
>>
>> I'm thinking of replacing the pickup coil, but wonder if there's a test
>> for this. It's a 3 wire model.

Forgot :)
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/feb99/techtotech.htm



>> BTW, I get no computer codes off the thing.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>
> http://revbeergoggles.com/cps/
>
> 1-2 second run indicates a sensor/relay fault is shutting down the
> engine or the computer isn't getting an indication the engine
> has actually started. This can be from a failed camshaft position
> sensor or crankshaft position sensor. In some cases it can also
> be a failing ASD relay or a blown fuse. Some times a faulty ignition
> coil can do this as well.
>
> The ASD relay is in the engine relay center
> http://revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/fuse-engine.jpg
> http://revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/fuse-engine-lid.jpg
> You can swap it with the AC relay
>
> Have you checked the distributor for oil?
> http://revbeergoggles.com/distributor/
>
> The camshaft position sensor is in there, but to replace
> it you have to remove and dissasemble the distributor.
> If the distributor has oil/sludge and the rotor can be
> moved side (which it shouldn't be able to do) then the
> bushing is shot and your better off just putting a new
> unit in, as they come with a new sensor.
>
> Now before replacing any sensors, disconnect and reconnect
> the harnesses to the Crankshaft and camshaft position
> sensors, remove and reinsert the ASD relay, remove and reinsert
> the coil feed, and check the distributor for oil.
>
> Also if your measuring sensors use a digital mulitmeter.
> Analog multimeters are not safe for use on sensors these
> days.

Chuck

On 2005-08-27, Bob Parkison <bobparki@citlink.net> wrote:
> Just a thought, this happened to me when the battery went dead and we jumped
> started it some seven or so years ago on my old 93 GC 4.0. It was the alarm
> system. Once the alarm was (reset) it was OK. If you know this, please
> forgive the post.
> Bob
>

Thanks for the input. This already happened to me before so I know the
hard way. I didn't notice the 'security' lamp lit so I assume this isn't
it. I don't remember it starting for a second when this happened before.

>
> "Chuck" <chuck@westmichigan.null> wrote in message
> news:slrndh1cqg.1km6.chuck@localhost.localdomain.. .
>> My kid's Jeep now starts and run for 1-2 seconds, then stalls. I checked
>> the ohms on the CPS and it's infinite as be between 2-3 pins. I also
>> check the TPS voltage and fuel pressure and both were fine. The fuel
>> pressure doesn't drop when the engine cuts out. I'm not sure if the
>> injectors are shuting down cutting off fuel or the spark is quitting, or
>> both.
>>
>> I'm thinking of replacing the pickup coil, but wonder if there's a test
>> for this. It's a 3 wire model.
>>
>> BTW, I get no computer codes off the thing.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>
>

DougW

Chuck did pass the time by typing:

> I thought the sensors too. The CrankshaftPS ohmed out infinite with a
> Fluke digital meter. I also checked all the fuses and swapped around
> relays to eliminate this.

I use a Fluke 87 to back up by my trusty little Tektronix TDS2002 :)
Ok.. so that is a bit nuts.

The crankshaftPS is just your basic hall effect sensor.
It outputs a 5v pulse once every rev. There should be
8V between the center pin (Black/light blue (ground))
and the White/Black wire. with a 5v pulse coming out
the grey/black wire.

There isn't an "ignition module", just the ECU/Computer.
If it was fragged I doubt the engine would start at all.

Just a thing to check, look on the engine block forward
of the right engine mount where the O2 sensor wire goes
up to the front of the wiring loom that runs along the
injector rail. (man what a run-on sentence) Check the metal
clip that holds that wire to the block to make sure it hasn't
been pinched or burned/shorted out.

You could remove/clean/replace the ECU connector.
Just have to move the overflow bottle out of the way.
If you do this, DO NOT.. use the center screw on that
connector to suck it back in, that will crack the
connector and that is $bigbucks$. Make sure the battery
is disconnected. And when you go to hook the battery back
up, put the key in the ignition and turn it to ON. That
will tell the alarm system it's ok and your not some nefarious
car thief. ;)

--
DougW

MudPuppy76

DougW wrote:

> DougW did pass the time by typing:
>
>>Chuck did pass the time by typing:
>>
>>>My kid's Jeep now starts and run for 1-2 seconds, then stalls. I checked
>>>the ohms on the CPS and it's infinite as be between 2-3 pins. I also
>>>check the TPS voltage and fuel pressure and both were fine. The fuel
>>>pressure doesn't drop when the engine cuts out. I'm not sure if the
>>>injectors are shuting down cutting off fuel or the spark is quitting, or
>>>both.
>>>
>>>I'm thinking of replacing the pickup coil, but wonder if there's a test
>>>for this. It's a 3 wire model.
>
>
> Forgot :)
> http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/feb99/techtotech.htm
>
>
>
>
>>>BTW, I get no computer codes off the thing.
>>>
>>>Thanks for any help.
>>
>>http://revbeergoggles.com/cps/
>>
>>1-2 second run indicates a sensor/relay fault is shutting down the
>>engine or the computer isn't getting an indication the engine
>>has actually started. This can be from a failed camshaft position
>>sensor or crankshaft position sensor. In some cases it can also
>>be a failing ASD relay or a blown fuse. Some times a faulty ignition
>>coil can do this as well.
>>
>>The ASD relay is in the engine relay center
>>http://revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/fuse-engine.jpg
>>http://revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/fuse-engine-lid.jpg
>>You can swap it with the AC relay
>>
>>Have you checked the distributor for oil?
>>http://revbeergoggles.com/distributor/
>>
>>The camshaft position sensor is in there, but to replace
>>it you have to remove and dissasemble the distributor.
>>If the distributor has oil/sludge and the rotor can be
>>moved side (which it shouldn't be able to do) then the
>>bushing is shot and your better off just putting a new
>>unit in, as they come with a new sensor.
>>
>>Now before replacing any sensors, disconnect and reconnect
>>the harnesses to the Crankshaft and camshaft position
>>sensors, remove and reinsert the ASD relay, remove and reinsert
>>the coil feed, and check the distributor for oil.
>>
>>Also if your measuring sensors use a digital mulitmeter.
>>Analog multimeters are not safe for use on sensors these
>>days.
>
>
>
>
DougW
just wanted to say THANK YOU for your website. i
don't have much access to JEEP technical
information at my dealership. Big help!
benji

--
Ben Jerew AKA PolarPuppy1976
New Country Lexus of Latham, NY, USA
Amateur Off-Roader 93 YJ, 93 ZJ

DougW

MudPuppy76 did pass the time by typing:

> DougW
> just wanted to say THANK YOU for your website. i
> don't have much access to JEEP technical
> information at my dealership. Big help!

Your welcome.

It's not advertised on the site but sometimes
the temp directory has interesting things.
http://www.revbeergoggles.com/temp/

If you need tech info the 93ZJ service manual is out
there, I strongly recommend getting on. Not cheap but
they pay for themselves in the first few jobs.

--
DougW

Will Honea

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:12:03 UTC Chuck <chuck@westmichigan.null>
wrote:

> I thought the sensors too. The CrankshaftPS ohmed out infinite with a
> Fluke digital meter. I also checked all the fuses and swapped around
> relays to eliminate this.

Ohmic check of the CPS is a waste of time unless you do it right - it
is a Hall Effect switch which is basically a transistor that is turned
on by the change in the flux field. You may get some info if you make
all your measurements the repeat with reversed leads. This causes some
"0" readings to go to open while other open leads will indicate a
small current flow. The only reliable way to measure it is with a
scope while it's under power, altho some better digital VOLTMETERS
(not OHMETERS) have a fast enough response time to show whether it is
actually pulsing or not. An older analog VOM will also work to check
the voltage.

--
Will Honea

Will Honea

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:12:03 UTC Chuck <chuck@westmichigan.null>
wrote:

> I thought the sensors too. The CrankshaftPS ohmed out infinite with a
> Fluke digital meter. I also checked all the fuses and swapped around
> relays to eliminate this.

Ohmic check of the CPS is a waste of time unless you do it right - it
is a Hall Effect switch which is basically a transistor that is turned
on by the change in the flux field. You may get some info if you make
all your measurements the repeat with reversed leads. This causes some
"0" readings to go to open while other open leads will indicate a
small current flow. The only reliable way to measure it is with a
scope while it's under power, altho some better digital VOLTMETERS
(not OHMETERS) have a fast enough response time to show whether it is
actually pulsing or not. An older analog VOM will also work to check
the voltage.

--
Will Honea