Mike Romain

Did you change the timing chain as a result of something or did this
happen after the change?

Could be you now have more than one issue....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

mike wrote:
>
> sfon@yahoo.com (serg) wrote in message news:<934d0785.0404061459.6b6d3c07@posting.google. com>...
> > look at this articles...
> > http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/april2001/techtotech.cfm
> > http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/feb99/techtotech.htm
> >
> ok i checked the cps, it read around 260 ohms the spec is 200 + or -
> 75 ohms...
> that second link looks like my problem though, the injectors timed
> wrong.. i guess it makes sense, the fuel air mixture wouldnt be
> right...
>
> however i think i need to read that article about 50 times, it seems
> to be a bit over my head...
>
> my motor is what he refers to as a 'traditional engine', it still has
> a distributor cap/rotor for the spark, but uses a cps for injector
> timing... and it seems that the relation between the 2 may be off, or
> the ECM is processing the readings from the sensor wrong... i do have
> an extra distributor cap i could make a window in, but im not really
> sure how to get them back into sync
>
> Thanks for the link serg i think this might be it.., if you could
> explain the article a little that would be awesome :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

Ufatbasted

I had starting problems when I first got my 91 YJ this time last year
and it came to be multiple problems.

First crank no spark- changed CPS rig started OK for 3 days.

Again crank no spark-cleaned all grounds especially ground at back on
engine to firewall-ground wire was in peices-started ok that day

Again crank no spark- Distrubutor pick up coil? Tried to remove dist
broke a bolt and pushed to my local garage for a re-man dist. When I
got her back replaced wires plugs and coil- fine starting for a few
days

Again crank this time WITH SPARK . Did not have a fuel pressure
tester, noticed the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator was
worn and cracked. Repalced vacum line and fuel pressure regulator did
fuel filter as well- Jeep started and ran OK a few days

Again crank with spark-replaced all relays as rig has 120,000 and it
was time anyway-for this as well as most of the above. New relays did
not help.

Noticed that when I bang on the gas tank rig would start so had
mechanic replace fuel pump-rig started and ran fine for two weeks then
no start again with spark.

Loose ground by e-brake cable was the cause, I think of all no fuel no
start problems. By working on the rig I must have shook the ground
wire so she would start. Still have not found which wire put do do
know that when the rig wont start now I release the e-brake and she
fires right up

Purpose of my post is that you may have more than one thing gone
wrong.













mcapsu@yahoo.com (mike) wrote in message news:<fed0233a.0404062109.76c34308@posting.google. com>...
> sfon@yahoo.com (serg) wrote in message news:<934d0785.0404061459.6b6d3c07@posting.google. com>...
> > look at this articles...
> > http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/april2001/techtotech.cfm
> > http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/feb99/techtotech.htm
> >
> ok i checked the cps, it read around 260 ohms the spec is 200 + or -
> 75 ohms...
> that second link looks like my problem though, the injectors timed
> wrong.. i guess it makes sense, the fuel air mixture wouldnt be
> right...
>
> however i think i need to read that article about 50 times, it seems
> to be a bit over my head...
>
> my motor is what he refers to as a 'traditional engine', it still has
> a distributor cap/rotor for the spark, but uses a cps for injector
> timing... and it seems that the relation between the 2 may be off, or
> the ECM is processing the readings from the sensor wrong... i do have
> an extra distributor cap i could make a window in, but im not really
> sure how to get them back into sync
>
> Thanks for the link serg i think this might be it.., if you could
> explain the article a little that would be awesome :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

Ufatbasted

I had starting problems when I first got my 91 YJ this time last year
and it came to be multiple problems.

First crank no spark- changed CPS rig started OK for 3 days.

Again crank no spark-cleaned all grounds especially ground at back on
engine to firewall-ground wire was in peices-started ok that day

Again crank no spark- Distrubutor pick up coil? Tried to remove dist
broke a bolt and pushed to my local garage for a re-man dist. When I
got her back replaced wires plugs and coil- fine starting for a few
days

Again crank this time WITH SPARK . Did not have a fuel pressure
tester, noticed the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator was
worn and cracked. Repalced vacum line and fuel pressure regulator did
fuel filter as well- Jeep started and ran OK a few days

Again crank with spark-replaced all relays as rig has 120,000 and it
was time anyway-for this as well as most of the above. New relays did
not help.

Noticed that when I bang on the gas tank rig would start so had
mechanic replace fuel pump-rig started and ran fine for two weeks then
no start again with spark.

Loose ground by e-brake cable was the cause, I think of all no fuel no
start problems. By working on the rig I must have shook the ground
wire so she would start. Still have not found which wire put do do
know that when the rig wont start now I release the e-brake and she
fires right up

Purpose of my post is that you may have more than one thing gone
wrong.













mcapsu@yahoo.com (mike) wrote in message news:<fed0233a.0404062109.76c34308@posting.google. com>...
> sfon@yahoo.com (serg) wrote in message news:<934d0785.0404061459.6b6d3c07@posting.google. com>...
> > look at this articles...
> > http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/april2001/techtotech.cfm
> > http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/feb99/techtotech.htm
> >
> ok i checked the cps, it read around 260 ohms the spec is 200 + or -
> 75 ohms...
> that second link looks like my problem though, the injectors timed
> wrong.. i guess it makes sense, the fuel air mixture wouldnt be
> right...
>
> however i think i need to read that article about 50 times, it seems
> to be a bit over my head...
>
> my motor is what he refers to as a 'traditional engine', it still has
> a distributor cap/rotor for the spark, but uses a cps for injector
> timing... and it seems that the relation between the 2 may be off, or
> the ECM is processing the readings from the sensor wrong... i do have
> an extra distributor cap i could make a window in, but im not really
> sure how to get them back into sync
>
> Thanks for the link serg i think this might be it.., if you could
> explain the article a little that would be awesome :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

Ufatbasted

I had starting problems when I first got my 91 YJ this time last year
and it came to be multiple problems.

First crank no spark- changed CPS rig started OK for 3 days.

Again crank no spark-cleaned all grounds especially ground at back on
engine to firewall-ground wire was in peices-started ok that day

Again crank no spark- Distrubutor pick up coil? Tried to remove dist
broke a bolt and pushed to my local garage for a re-man dist. When I
got her back replaced wires plugs and coil- fine starting for a few
days

Again crank this time WITH SPARK . Did not have a fuel pressure
tester, noticed the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator was
worn and cracked. Repalced vacum line and fuel pressure regulator did
fuel filter as well- Jeep started and ran OK a few days

Again crank with spark-replaced all relays as rig has 120,000 and it
was time anyway-for this as well as most of the above. New relays did
not help.

Noticed that when I bang on the gas tank rig would start so had
mechanic replace fuel pump-rig started and ran fine for two weeks then
no start again with spark.

Loose ground by e-brake cable was the cause, I think of all no fuel no
start problems. By working on the rig I must have shook the ground
wire so she would start. Still have not found which wire put do do
know that when the rig wont start now I release the e-brake and she
fires right up

Purpose of my post is that you may have more than one thing gone
wrong.













mcapsu@yahoo.com (mike) wrote in message news:<fed0233a.0404062109.76c34308@posting.google. com>...
> sfon@yahoo.com (serg) wrote in message news:<934d0785.0404061459.6b6d3c07@posting.google. com>...
> > look at this articles...
> > http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/april2001/techtotech.cfm
> > http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/feb99/techtotech.htm
> >
> ok i checked the cps, it read around 260 ohms the spec is 200 + or -
> 75 ohms...
> that second link looks like my problem though, the injectors timed
> wrong.. i guess it makes sense, the fuel air mixture wouldnt be
> right...
>
> however i think i need to read that article about 50 times, it seems
> to be a bit over my head...
>
> my motor is what he refers to as a 'traditional engine', it still has
> a distributor cap/rotor for the spark, but uses a cps for injector
> timing... and it seems that the relation between the 2 may be off, or
> the ECM is processing the readings from the sensor wrong... i do have
> an extra distributor cap i could make a window in, but im not really
> sure how to get them back into sync
>
> Thanks for the link serg i think this might be it.., if you could
> explain the article a little that would be awesome :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

Ufatbasted

I had starting problems when I first got my 91 YJ this time last year
and it came to be multiple problems.

First crank no spark- changed CPS rig started OK for 3 days.

Again crank no spark-cleaned all grounds especially ground at back on
engine to firewall-ground wire was in peices-started ok that day

Again crank no spark- Distrubutor pick up coil? Tried to remove dist
broke a bolt and pushed to my local garage for a re-man dist. When I
got her back replaced wires plugs and coil- fine starting for a few
days

Again crank this time WITH SPARK . Did not have a fuel pressure
tester, noticed the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator was
worn and cracked. Repalced vacum line and fuel pressure regulator did
fuel filter as well- Jeep started and ran OK a few days

Again crank with spark-replaced all relays as rig has 120,000 and it
was time anyway-for this as well as most of the above. New relays did
not help.

Noticed that when I bang on the gas tank rig would start so had
mechanic replace fuel pump-rig started and ran fine for two weeks then
no start again with spark.

Loose ground by e-brake cable was the cause, I think of all no fuel no
start problems. By working on the rig I must have shook the ground
wire so she would start. Still have not found which wire put do do
know that when the rig wont start now I release the e-brake and she
fires right up

Purpose of my post is that you may have more than one thing gone
wrong.













mcapsu@yahoo.com (mike) wrote in message news:<fed0233a.0404062109.76c34308@posting.google. com>...
> sfon@yahoo.com (serg) wrote in message news:<934d0785.0404061459.6b6d3c07@posting.google. com>...
> > look at this articles...
> > http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/april2001/techtotech.cfm
> > http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/feb99/techtotech.htm
> >
> ok i checked the cps, it read around 260 ohms the spec is 200 + or -
> 75 ohms...
> that second link looks like my problem though, the injectors timed
> wrong.. i guess it makes sense, the fuel air mixture wouldnt be
> right...
>
> however i think i need to read that article about 50 times, it seems
> to be a bit over my head...
>
> my motor is what he refers to as a 'traditional engine', it still has
> a distributor cap/rotor for the spark, but uses a cps for injector
> timing... and it seems that the relation between the 2 may be off, or
> the ECM is processing the readings from the sensor wrong... i do have
> an extra distributor cap i could make a window in, but im not really
> sure how to get them back into sync
>
> Thanks for the link serg i think this might be it.., if you could
> explain the article a little that would be awesome :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

mike

ok i got the dash to come back, i inspected all the fuses in the under
dash panel and they all looked visually good so i decided to test
their resitance anyway...
i found that almost all the fuses had a layer of corrosion over their
blades, i cleand them with some sandpaper and walla, now i can read my
codes....


12
33
11
55

12 Battery or computer recently disconnected

33 Air conditioning clutch relay circuit open or shorted (may be in
the wide-open-throttle cutoff circuit)

11 No ignition reference signal detected during cranking (bad Hall
effect) OR timing belt skipped one or more teeth; OR loss of either
camshaft or crankshaft position sensor. Can cause the engine to stop
working entirely with no limp-home mode.

55 End of codes

# 55 is end of codes - it's normal. Before you call your dealer or
mechanic, consider that the blink-spacing is not always perfectly
uniform, so if you see 23 23, it's probably just a single 55. (Codes
are not repeated.)
# 33 is normal on earlier models if you don't have air conditioning.

ok so 12 i know, and mine is a 91 with no ac so 33 is ok as well

so 11 is the culprit

i just changed the timing chain so i know its not that

the cps is reading the correct ohm value (i measured a new one at the
parts store with the same ohm meter)

the cam position sensor when looked up i can't find anything, there is
a distributor on this motor which leads me to think that i can adjust
the timing like on old v-8s by twisting the distributor counter
clockwise to advance and clockwise to retard...

one of serg's postings seems to be the answer although like i said i
dont have a simutech or really fully understand it...

i am going to trace the wires from the cam positon sensor to the ecm
to make sure a wire isnt failing, there is also a set of wires leading
back to the distributor to a harness that may be the 'cam position
sensor' i will also trace those wires back

like i said earlier the timing is now at 0 degrees, an earlier post
referenced 8 degrees advance so if the wires are good leading to the
ecm i am guessing to twist the distributor - is this the right thing
to do?

also 11 can mean 'bad hall effect' what does that mean? i looked up
hall effect and it has to do with voltage generated on a
perpendicutlar wire running through windings that have a current
flowing through them - is that correct and how does it relate and more
importantly how do i get a good hall effect

Thanks,
Mike

mike

ok i got the dash to come back, i inspected all the fuses in the under
dash panel and they all looked visually good so i decided to test
their resitance anyway...
i found that almost all the fuses had a layer of corrosion over their
blades, i cleand them with some sandpaper and walla, now i can read my
codes....


12
33
11
55

12 Battery or computer recently disconnected

33 Air conditioning clutch relay circuit open or shorted (may be in
the wide-open-throttle cutoff circuit)

11 No ignition reference signal detected during cranking (bad Hall
effect) OR timing belt skipped one or more teeth; OR loss of either
camshaft or crankshaft position sensor. Can cause the engine to stop
working entirely with no limp-home mode.

55 End of codes

# 55 is end of codes - it's normal. Before you call your dealer or
mechanic, consider that the blink-spacing is not always perfectly
uniform, so if you see 23 23, it's probably just a single 55. (Codes
are not repeated.)
# 33 is normal on earlier models if you don't have air conditioning.

ok so 12 i know, and mine is a 91 with no ac so 33 is ok as well

so 11 is the culprit

i just changed the timing chain so i know its not that

the cps is reading the correct ohm value (i measured a new one at the
parts store with the same ohm meter)

the cam position sensor when looked up i can't find anything, there is
a distributor on this motor which leads me to think that i can adjust
the timing like on old v-8s by twisting the distributor counter
clockwise to advance and clockwise to retard...

one of serg's postings seems to be the answer although like i said i
dont have a simutech or really fully understand it...

i am going to trace the wires from the cam positon sensor to the ecm
to make sure a wire isnt failing, there is also a set of wires leading
back to the distributor to a harness that may be the 'cam position
sensor' i will also trace those wires back

like i said earlier the timing is now at 0 degrees, an earlier post
referenced 8 degrees advance so if the wires are good leading to the
ecm i am guessing to twist the distributor - is this the right thing
to do?

also 11 can mean 'bad hall effect' what does that mean? i looked up
hall effect and it has to do with voltage generated on a
perpendicutlar wire running through windings that have a current
flowing through them - is that correct and how does it relate and more
importantly how do i get a good hall effect

Thanks,
Mike

mike

ok i got the dash to come back, i inspected all the fuses in the under
dash panel and they all looked visually good so i decided to test
their resitance anyway...
i found that almost all the fuses had a layer of corrosion over their
blades, i cleand them with some sandpaper and walla, now i can read my
codes....


12
33
11
55

12 Battery or computer recently disconnected

33 Air conditioning clutch relay circuit open or shorted (may be in
the wide-open-throttle cutoff circuit)

11 No ignition reference signal detected during cranking (bad Hall
effect) OR timing belt skipped one or more teeth; OR loss of either
camshaft or crankshaft position sensor. Can cause the engine to stop
working entirely with no limp-home mode.

55 End of codes

# 55 is end of codes - it's normal. Before you call your dealer or
mechanic, consider that the blink-spacing is not always perfectly
uniform, so if you see 23 23, it's probably just a single 55. (Codes
are not repeated.)
# 33 is normal on earlier models if you don't have air conditioning.

ok so 12 i know, and mine is a 91 with no ac so 33 is ok as well

so 11 is the culprit

i just changed the timing chain so i know its not that

the cps is reading the correct ohm value (i measured a new one at the
parts store with the same ohm meter)

the cam position sensor when looked up i can't find anything, there is
a distributor on this motor which leads me to think that i can adjust
the timing like on old v-8s by twisting the distributor counter
clockwise to advance and clockwise to retard...

one of serg's postings seems to be the answer although like i said i
dont have a simutech or really fully understand it...

i am going to trace the wires from the cam positon sensor to the ecm
to make sure a wire isnt failing, there is also a set of wires leading
back to the distributor to a harness that may be the 'cam position
sensor' i will also trace those wires back

like i said earlier the timing is now at 0 degrees, an earlier post
referenced 8 degrees advance so if the wires are good leading to the
ecm i am guessing to twist the distributor - is this the right thing
to do?

also 11 can mean 'bad hall effect' what does that mean? i looked up
hall effect and it has to do with voltage generated on a
perpendicutlar wire running through windings that have a current
flowing through them - is that correct and how does it relate and more
importantly how do i get a good hall effect

Thanks,
Mike

mike

ok i got the dash to come back, i inspected all the fuses in the under
dash panel and they all looked visually good so i decided to test
their resitance anyway...
i found that almost all the fuses had a layer of corrosion over their
blades, i cleand them with some sandpaper and walla, now i can read my
codes....


12
33
11
55

12 Battery or computer recently disconnected

33 Air conditioning clutch relay circuit open or shorted (may be in
the wide-open-throttle cutoff circuit)

11 No ignition reference signal detected during cranking (bad Hall
effect) OR timing belt skipped one or more teeth; OR loss of either
camshaft or crankshaft position sensor. Can cause the engine to stop
working entirely with no limp-home mode.

55 End of codes

# 55 is end of codes - it's normal. Before you call your dealer or
mechanic, consider that the blink-spacing is not always perfectly
uniform, so if you see 23 23, it's probably just a single 55. (Codes
are not repeated.)
# 33 is normal on earlier models if you don't have air conditioning.

ok so 12 i know, and mine is a 91 with no ac so 33 is ok as well

so 11 is the culprit

i just changed the timing chain so i know its not that

the cps is reading the correct ohm value (i measured a new one at the
parts store with the same ohm meter)

the cam position sensor when looked up i can't find anything, there is
a distributor on this motor which leads me to think that i can adjust
the timing like on old v-8s by twisting the distributor counter
clockwise to advance and clockwise to retard...

one of serg's postings seems to be the answer although like i said i
dont have a simutech or really fully understand it...

i am going to trace the wires from the cam positon sensor to the ecm
to make sure a wire isnt failing, there is also a set of wires leading
back to the distributor to a harness that may be the 'cam position
sensor' i will also trace those wires back

like i said earlier the timing is now at 0 degrees, an earlier post
referenced 8 degrees advance so if the wires are good leading to the
ecm i am guessing to twist the distributor - is this the right thing
to do?

also 11 can mean 'bad hall effect' what does that mean? i looked up
hall effect and it has to do with voltage generated on a
perpendicutlar wire running through windings that have a current
flowing through them - is that correct and how does it relate and more
importantly how do i get a good hall effect

Thanks,
Mike

DougW

mike did pass the time by typing:
> ok i got the dash to come back, i inspected all the fuses in the under
> dash panel and they all looked visually good so i decided to test
> their resitance anyway...
> i found that almost all the fuses had a layer of corrosion over their
> blades, i cleand them with some sandpaper and walla, now i can read my
> codes....
>
>
> 12
> 33
> 11
> 55
>
> 12 Battery or computer recently disconnected
>
> 33 Air conditioning clutch relay circuit open or shorted (may be in
> the wide-open-throttle cutoff circuit)
>
> 11 No ignition reference signal detected during cranking (bad Hall
> effect) OR timing belt skipped one or more teeth; OR loss of either
> camshaft or crankshaft position sensor. Can cause the engine to stop
> working entirely with no limp-home mode.
>
> 55 End of codes
>
> # 55 is end of codes - it's normal. Before you call your dealer or
> mechanic, consider that the blink-spacing is not always perfectly
> uniform, so if you see 23 23, it's probably just a single 55. (Codes
> are not repeated.)
> # 33 is normal on earlier models if you don't have air conditioning.
>
> ok so 12 i know, and mine is a 91 with no ac so 33 is ok as well
>
> so 11 is the culprit
>
> i just changed the timing chain so i know its not that
>
> the cps is reading the correct ohm value (i measured a new one at the
> parts store with the same ohm meter)
>
> the cam position sensor when looked up i can't find anything, there is
> a distributor on this motor which leads me to think that i can adjust
> the timing like on old v-8s by twisting the distributor counter
> clockwise to advance and clockwise to retard...
>
> one of serg's postings seems to be the answer although like i said i
> dont have a simutech or really fully understand it...
>
> i am going to trace the wires from the cam positon sensor to the ecm
> to make sure a wire isnt failing, there is also a set of wires leading
> back to the distributor to a harness that may be the 'cam position
> sensor' i will also trace those wires back
>
> like i said earlier the timing is now at 0 degrees, an earlier post
> referenced 8 degrees advance so if the wires are good leading to the
> ecm i am guessing to twist the distributor - is this the right thing
> to do?
>
> also 11 can mean 'bad hall effect' what does that mean? i looked up
> hall effect and it has to do with voltage generated on a
> perpendicutlar wire running through windings that have a current
> flowing through them - is that correct and how does it relate and more
> importantly how do i get a good hall effect

Your CPS sensor is a "hall effect" sensor. It can go bad if the sensor
is contaminated by metal filings sticking to it. You can see it better
on ABS sensors as the fuzzies that stick to them.

This is for the 93ZJ but might help.
http://members.***.net/wilsond/temp/wiring-sensor.jpg