'88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > down or the wrong one.
> >
> > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> >
> > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
>
> The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> the orientation of the return line.
FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
here. Maybe not. Oh well.
>
>
> > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > at the back one too...
> >
> I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> times.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
>
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > >
> > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > >
> > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > sometimes at noon.
> > >
> > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > >
> > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > torture of it all.
> > >
> > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > >
> > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > >
> > > Bob Versluys
> > > Florence, SC
> > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > down or the wrong one.
> >
> > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> >
> > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
>
> The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> the orientation of the return line.
FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
here. Maybe not. Oh well.
>
>
> > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > at the back one too...
> >
> I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> times.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
>
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > >
> > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > >
> > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > sometimes at noon.
> > >
> > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > >
> > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > torture of it all.
> > >
> > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > >
> > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > >
> > > Bob Versluys
> > > Florence, SC
> > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > down or the wrong one.
> >
> > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> >
> > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
>
> The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> the orientation of the return line.
FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
here. Maybe not. Oh well.
>
>
> > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > at the back one too...
> >
> I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> times.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
>
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > >
> > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > >
> > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > sometimes at noon.
> > >
> > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > >
> > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > torture of it all.
> > >
> > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > >
> > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > >
> > > Bob Versluys
> > > Florence, SC
> > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > down or the wrong one.
> >
> > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> >
> > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
>
> The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> the orientation of the return line.
FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
here. Maybe not. Oh well.
>
>
> > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > at the back one too...
> >
> I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> times.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
>
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > >
> > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > >
> > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > sometimes at noon.
> > >
> > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > >
> > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > torture of it all.
> > >
> > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > >
> > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > >
> > > Bob Versluys
> > > Florence, SC
> > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > down or the wrong one.
> >
> > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> >
> > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
>
> The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> the orientation of the return line.
FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
here. Maybe not. Oh well.
>
>
> > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > at the back one too...
> >
> I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> times.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
>
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > >
> > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > >
> > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > sometimes at noon.
> > >
> > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > >
> > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > torture of it all.
> > >
> > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > >
> > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > >
> > > Bob Versluys
> > > Florence, SC
> > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > down or the wrong one.
> >
> > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> >
> > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
>
> The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> the orientation of the return line.
FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
here. Maybe not. Oh well.
>
>
> > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > at the back one too...
> >
> I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> times.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
>
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > >
> > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > >
> > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > sometimes at noon.
> > >
> > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > >
> > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > torture of it all.
> > >
> > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > >
> > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > >
> > > Bob Versluys
> > > Florence, SC
> > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb
and see what happens.
If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of
the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or
a torn diaphragm on the pump.
Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas?
Oh, the choke is an electric timer job.
It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how
long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it
doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long
it has had 12 volts.
Mike
"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > > down or the wrong one.
> > >
> > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> > >
> > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
> >
> > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> > the orientation of the return line.
>
> FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
> and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
> made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
> before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
> assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
> stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
> the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
> even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
> go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
> later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
> lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
> and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
> I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
> smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
> freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
> here. Maybe not. Oh well.
>
> >
> >
> > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > > at the back one too...
> > >
> > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> > times.)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > > >
> > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > > >
> > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > > sometimes at noon.
> > > >
> > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > > torture of it all.
> > > >
> > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > > >
> > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Versluys
> > > > Florence, SC
> > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
and see what happens.
If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of
the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or
a torn diaphragm on the pump.
Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas?
Oh, the choke is an electric timer job.
It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how
long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it
doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long
it has had 12 volts.
Mike
"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > > down or the wrong one.
> > >
> > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> > >
> > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
> >
> > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> > the orientation of the return line.
>
> FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
> and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
> made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
> before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
> assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
> stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
> the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
> even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
> go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
> later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
> lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
> and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
> I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
> smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
> freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
> here. Maybe not. Oh well.
>
> >
> >
> > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > > at the back one too...
> > >
> > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> > times.)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > > >
> > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > > >
> > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > > sometimes at noon.
> > > >
> > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > > torture of it all.
> > > >
> > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > > >
> > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Versluys
> > > > Florence, SC
> > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb
and see what happens.
If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of
the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or
a torn diaphragm on the pump.
Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas?
Oh, the choke is an electric timer job.
It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how
long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it
doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long
it has had 12 volts.
Mike
"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > > down or the wrong one.
> > >
> > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> > >
> > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
> >
> > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> > the orientation of the return line.
>
> FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
> and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
> made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
> before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
> assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
> stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
> the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
> even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
> go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
> later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
> lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
> and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
> I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
> smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
> freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
> here. Maybe not. Oh well.
>
> >
> >
> > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > > at the back one too...
> > >
> > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> > times.)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > > >
> > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > > >
> > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > > sometimes at noon.
> > > >
> > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > > torture of it all.
> > > >
> > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > > >
> > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Versluys
> > > > Florence, SC
> > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
and see what happens.
If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of
the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or
a torn diaphragm on the pump.
Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas?
Oh, the choke is an electric timer job.
It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how
long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it
doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long
it has had 12 volts.
Mike
"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > > down or the wrong one.
> > >
> > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> > >
> > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
> >
> > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> > the orientation of the return line.
>
> FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
> and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
> made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
> before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
> assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
> stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
> the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
> even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
> go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
> later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
> lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
> and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
> I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
> smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
> freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
> here. Maybe not. Oh well.
>
> >
> >
> > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > > at the back one too...
> > >
> > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> > times.)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > > >
> > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > > >
> > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > > sometimes at noon.
> > > >
> > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > > torture of it all.
> > > >
> > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > > >
> > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Versluys
> > > > Florence, SC
> > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb
and see what happens.
If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of
the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or
a torn diaphragm on the pump.
Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas?
Oh, the choke is an electric timer job.
It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how
long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it
doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long
it has had 12 volts.
Mike
"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > > down or the wrong one.
> > >
> > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> > >
> > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
> >
> > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> > the orientation of the return line.
>
> FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
> and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
> made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
> before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
> assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
> stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
> the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
> even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
> go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
> later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
> lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
> and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
> I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
> smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
> freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
> here. Maybe not. Oh well.
>
> >
> >
> > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > > at the back one too...
> > >
> > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> > times.)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > > >
> > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > > >
> > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > > sometimes at noon.
> > > >
> > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > > torture of it all.
> > > >
> > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > > >
> > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Versluys
> > > > Florence, SC
> > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
and see what happens.
If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of
the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or
a torn diaphragm on the pump.
Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas?
Oh, the choke is an electric timer job.
It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how
long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it
doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long
it has had 12 volts.
Mike
"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > > down or the wrong one.
> > >
> > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> > >
> > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
> >
> > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> > the orientation of the return line.
>
> FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
> and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
> made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
> before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
> assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
> stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
> the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
> even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
> go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
> later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
> lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
> and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
> I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
> smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
> freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
> here. Maybe not. Oh well.
>
> >
> >
> > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > > at the back one too...
> > >
> > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> > times.)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > > >
> > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > > >
> > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > > sometimes at noon.
> > > >
> > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > > torture of it all.
> > > >
> > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > > >
> > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Versluys
> > > > Florence, SC
> > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Yeah, I hate those. I have one on my Grand Waggy and I wish I could find a
good alternative (with the exception of a manual one).
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca...
> Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb
> and see what happens.
>
> If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of
> the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or
> a torn diaphragm on the pump.
>
> Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas?
>
> Oh, the choke is an electric timer job.
>
> It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how
> long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it
> doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long
> it has had 12 volts.
>
> Mike
>
> "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> >
> > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message
news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in
upside
> > > > down or the wrong one.
> > > >
> > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return
line
> > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor
lock
> > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting.
If
> > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> > > >
> > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
> > >
> > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> > > the orientation of the return line.
> >
> > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
> > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
> > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
> > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
> > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
> > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
> > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
> > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
> > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
> > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
> > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
> > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
> > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
> > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
> > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
> > here. Maybe not. Oh well.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause
the
> > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really
drip
> > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A
visual
> > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas
line,
> > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame,
usually
> > > > at the back one too...
> > > >
> > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> > > times.)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have
probably
> > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep
has
> > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave
at
> > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet
talk
> > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket
of
> > > > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4
times
> > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those
little
> > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are
bent
> > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new.
The
> > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away
from
> > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug
wires
> > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec
(though it
> > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the
hose
> > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > > > >
> > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right
before I
> > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5
minutes).
> > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > > > sometimes at noon.
> > > > >
> > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key.
I
> > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck
if
> > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open
before
> > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out
the
> > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will
summon
> > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always
work,
> > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is
there a
> > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get
muddy
> > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent
mudpuddle, I
> > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even
take
> > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But
the
> > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work
clothes
> > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their
mercedes
> > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good
mechanic,
> > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even
before I
> > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the
throat
> > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any
sign of
> > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has
left
> > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being
lean.
> > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand
most
> > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is
quite
> > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that
it
> > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates
are
> > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > > > torture of it all.
> > > > >
> > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning
starts,
> > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting
in
> > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems
with
> > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual
fuel
> > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop
the
> > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most
recent
> > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Versluys
> > > > > Florence, SC
> > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
good alternative (with the exception of a manual one).
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca...
> Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb
> and see what happens.
>
> If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of
> the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or
> a torn diaphragm on the pump.
>
> Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas?
>
> Oh, the choke is an electric timer job.
>
> It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how
> long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it
> doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long
> it has had 12 volts.
>
> Mike
>
> "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> >
> > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message
news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in
upside
> > > > down or the wrong one.
> > > >
> > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return
line
> > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor
lock
> > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting.
If
> > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> > > >
> > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
> > >
> > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> > > the orientation of the return line.
> >
> > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
> > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
> > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
> > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
> > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
> > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
> > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
> > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
> > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
> > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
> > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
> > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
> > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
> > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
> > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
> > here. Maybe not. Oh well.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause
the
> > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really
drip
> > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A
visual
> > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas
line,
> > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame,
usually
> > > > at the back one too...
> > > >
> > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> > > times.)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have
probably
> > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep
has
> > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave
at
> > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet
talk
> > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket
of
> > > > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4
times
> > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those
little
> > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are
bent
> > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new.
The
> > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away
from
> > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug
wires
> > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec
(though it
> > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the
hose
> > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > > > >
> > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right
before I
> > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5
minutes).
> > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > > > sometimes at noon.
> > > > >
> > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key.
I
> > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck
if
> > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open
before
> > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out
the
> > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will
summon
> > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always
work,
> > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is
there a
> > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get
muddy
> > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent
mudpuddle, I
> > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even
take
> > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But
the
> > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work
clothes
> > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their
mercedes
> > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good
mechanic,
> > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even
before I
> > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the
throat
> > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any
sign of
> > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has
left
> > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being
lean.
> > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand
most
> > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is
quite
> > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that
it
> > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates
are
> > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > > > torture of it all.
> > > > >
> > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning
starts,
> > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting
in
> > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems
with
> > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual
fuel
> > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop
the
> > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most
recent
> > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Versluys
> > > > > Florence, SC
> > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Yeah, I hate those. I have one on my Grand Waggy and I wish I could find a
good alternative (with the exception of a manual one).
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca...
> Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb
> and see what happens.
>
> If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of
> the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or
> a torn diaphragm on the pump.
>
> Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas?
>
> Oh, the choke is an electric timer job.
>
> It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how
> long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it
> doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long
> it has had 12 volts.
>
> Mike
>
> "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> >
> > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message
news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in
upside
> > > > down or the wrong one.
> > > >
> > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return
line
> > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor
lock
> > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting.
If
> > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> > > >
> > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
> > >
> > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> > > the orientation of the return line.
> >
> > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
> > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
> > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
> > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
> > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
> > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
> > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
> > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
> > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
> > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
> > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
> > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
> > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
> > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
> > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
> > here. Maybe not. Oh well.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause
the
> > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really
drip
> > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A
visual
> > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas
line,
> > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame,
usually
> > > > at the back one too...
> > > >
> > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> > > times.)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have
probably
> > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep
has
> > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave
at
> > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet
talk
> > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket
of
> > > > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4
times
> > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those
little
> > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are
bent
> > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new.
The
> > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away
from
> > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug
wires
> > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec
(though it
> > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the
hose
> > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > > > >
> > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right
before I
> > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5
minutes).
> > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > > > sometimes at noon.
> > > > >
> > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key.
I
> > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck
if
> > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open
before
> > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out
the
> > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will
summon
> > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always
work,
> > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is
there a
> > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get
muddy
> > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent
mudpuddle, I
> > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even
take
> > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But
the
> > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work
clothes
> > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their
mercedes
> > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good
mechanic,
> > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even
before I
> > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the
throat
> > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any
sign of
> > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has
left
> > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being
lean.
> > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand
most
> > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is
quite
> > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that
it
> > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates
are
> > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > > > torture of it all.
> > > > >
> > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning
starts,
> > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting
in
> > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems
with
> > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual
fuel
> > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop
the
> > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most
recent
> > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Versluys
> > > > > Florence, SC
> > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
good alternative (with the exception of a manual one).
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca...
> Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb
> and see what happens.
>
> If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of
> the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or
> a torn diaphragm on the pump.
>
> Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas?
>
> Oh, the choke is an electric timer job.
>
> It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how
> long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it
> doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long
> it has had 12 volts.
>
> Mike
>
> "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> >
> > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message
news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in
upside
> > > > down or the wrong one.
> > > >
> > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return
line
> > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor
lock
> > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting.
If
> > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> > > >
> > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
> > >
> > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> > > the orientation of the return line.
> >
> > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
> > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
> > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
> > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
> > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
> > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
> > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
> > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
> > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
> > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
> > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
> > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
> > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
> > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
> > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
> > here. Maybe not. Oh well.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause
the
> > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really
drip
> > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A
visual
> > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas
line,
> > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame,
usually
> > > > at the back one too...
> > > >
> > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> > > times.)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have
probably
> > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep
has
> > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave
at
> > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet
talk
> > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket
of
> > > > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4
times
> > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those
little
> > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are
bent
> > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new.
The
> > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away
from
> > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug
wires
> > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec
(though it
> > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the
hose
> > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > > > >
> > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right
before I
> > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5
minutes).
> > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > > > sometimes at noon.
> > > > >
> > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key.
I
> > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck
if
> > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open
before
> > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out
the
> > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will
summon
> > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always
work,
> > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is
there a
> > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get
muddy
> > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent
mudpuddle, I
> > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even
take
> > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But
the
> > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work
clothes
> > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their
mercedes
> > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good
mechanic,
> > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even
before I
> > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the
throat
> > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any
sign of
> > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has
left
> > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being
lean.
> > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand
most
> > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is
quite
> > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that
it
> > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates
are
> > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > > > torture of it all.
> > > > >
> > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning
starts,
> > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting
in
> > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems
with
> > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual
fuel
> > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop
the
> > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most
recent
> > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Versluys
> > > > > Florence, SC
> > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Yeah, I hate those. I have one on my Grand Waggy and I wish I could find a
good alternative (with the exception of a manual one).
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca...
> Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb
> and see what happens.
>
> If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of
> the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or
> a torn diaphragm on the pump.
>
> Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas?
>
> Oh, the choke is an electric timer job.
>
> It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how
> long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it
> doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long
> it has had 12 volts.
>
> Mike
>
> "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> >
> > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message
news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in
upside
> > > > down or the wrong one.
> > > >
> > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return
line
> > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor
lock
> > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting.
If
> > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> > > >
> > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
> > >
> > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> > > the orientation of the return line.
> >
> > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
> > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
> > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
> > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
> > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
> > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
> > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
> > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
> > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
> > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
> > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
> > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
> > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
> > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
> > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
> > here. Maybe not. Oh well.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause
the
> > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really
drip
> > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A
visual
> > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas
line,
> > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame,
usually
> > > > at the back one too...
> > > >
> > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> > > times.)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have
probably
> > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep
has
> > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave
at
> > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet
talk
> > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket
of
> > > > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4
times
> > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those
little
> > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are
bent
> > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new.
The
> > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away
from
> > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug
wires
> > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec
(though it
> > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the
hose
> > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > > > >
> > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right
before I
> > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5
minutes).
> > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > > > sometimes at noon.
> > > > >
> > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key.
I
> > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck
if
> > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open
before
> > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out
the
> > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will
summon
> > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always
work,
> > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is
there a
> > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get
muddy
> > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent
mudpuddle, I
> > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even
take
> > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But
the
> > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work
clothes
> > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their
mercedes
> > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good
mechanic,
> > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even
before I
> > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the
throat
> > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any
sign of
> > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has
left
> > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being
lean.
> > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand
most
> > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is
quite
> > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that
it
> > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates
are
> > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > > > torture of it all.
> > > > >
> > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning
starts,
> > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting
in
> > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems
with
> > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual
fuel
> > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop
the
> > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most
recent
> > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Versluys
> > > > > Florence, SC
> > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
good alternative (with the exception of a manual one).
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca...
> Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb
> and see what happens.
>
> If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of
> the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or
> a torn diaphragm on the pump.
>
> Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas?
>
> Oh, the choke is an electric timer job.
>
> It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how
> long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it
> doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long
> it has had 12 volts.
>
> Mike
>
> "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> >
> > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message
news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in
upside
> > > > down or the wrong one.
> > > >
> > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return
line
> > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor
lock
> > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting.
If
> > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> > > >
> > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
> > >
> > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> > > the orientation of the return line.
> >
> > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
> > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
> > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
> > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
> > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
> > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
> > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
> > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
> > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
> > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
> > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
> > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
> > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
> > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
> > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
> > here. Maybe not. Oh well.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause
the
> > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really
drip
> > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A
visual
> > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas
line,
> > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame,
usually
> > > > at the back one too...
> > > >
> > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> > > times.)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have
probably
> > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep
has
> > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave
at
> > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet
talk
> > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket
of
> > > > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4
times
> > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those
little
> > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are
bent
> > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new.
The
> > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away
from
> > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug
wires
> > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec
(though it
> > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the
hose
> > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > > > >
> > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right
before I
> > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5
minutes).
> > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > > > sometimes at noon.
> > > > >
> > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key.
I
> > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck
if
> > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open
before
> > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out
the
> > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will
summon
> > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always
work,
> > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is
there a
> > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get
muddy
> > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent
mudpuddle, I
> > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even
take
> > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But
the
> > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work
clothes
> > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their
mercedes
> > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good
mechanic,
> > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even
before I
> > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the
throat
> > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any
sign of
> > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has
left
> > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being
lean.
> > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand
most
> > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is
quite
> > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that
it
> > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates
are
> > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > > > torture of it all.
> > > > >
> > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning
starts,
> > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting
in
> > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems
with
> > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual
fuel
> > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop
the
> > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most
recent
> > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Versluys
> > > > > Florence, SC
> > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
I went manual, it works great for me up here in Canada. I can leave it
set on 1200 or 1500 rpm and drive away. As it 'really' warms up, I drop
it down.
Mike
TJim wrote:
>
> Yeah, I hate those. I have one on my Grand Waggy and I wish I could find a
> good alternative (with the exception of a manual one).
>
> --
> Jim
> --
> 98 TJ SE
> 90 SJ GW
> http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca...
> > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb
> > and see what happens.
> >
> > If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of
> > the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or
> > a torn diaphragm on the pump.
> >
> > Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas?
> >
> > Oh, the choke is an electric timer job.
> >
> > It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how
> > long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it
> > doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long
> > it has had 12 volts.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > >
> > > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message
> news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> > > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in
> upside
> > > > > down or the wrong one.
> > > > >
> > > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return
> line
> > > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor
> lock
> > > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting.
> If
> > > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> > > > >
> > > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
> > > >
> > > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> > > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> > > > the orientation of the return line.
> > >
> > > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
> > > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
> > > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
> > > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
> > > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
> > > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
> > > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
> > > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
> > > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
> > > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
> > > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
> > > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
> > > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
> > > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
> > > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
> > > here. Maybe not. Oh well.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause
> the
> > > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really
> drip
> > > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A
> visual
> > > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas
> line,
> > > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame,
> usually
> > > > > at the back one too...
> > > > >
> > > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> > > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> > > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> > > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> > > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> > > > times.)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have
> probably
> > > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep
> has
> > > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave
> at
> > > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet
> talk
> > > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket
> of
> > > > > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4
> times
> > > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those
> little
> > > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are
> bent
> > > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new.
> The
> > > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away
> from
> > > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug
> wires
> > > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec
> (though it
> > > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the
> hose
> > > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right
> before I
> > > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5
> minutes).
> > > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > > > > sometimes at noon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key.
> I
> > > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck
> if
> > > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open
> before
> > > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out
> the
> > > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will
> summon
> > > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always
> work,
> > > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is
> there a
> > > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get
> muddy
> > > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent
> mudpuddle, I
> > > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even
> take
> > > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But
> the
> > > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work
> clothes
> > > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their
> mercedes
> > > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good
> mechanic,
> > > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even
> before I
> > > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the
> throat
> > > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any
> sign of
> > > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has
> left
> > > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being
> lean.
> > > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand
> most
> > > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is
> quite
> > > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that
> it
> > > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates
> are
> > > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > > > > torture of it all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning
> starts,
> > > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting
> in
> > > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems
> with
> > > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual
> fuel
> > > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop
> the
> > > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most
> recent
> > > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bob Versluys
> > > > > > Florence, SC
> > > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"
set on 1200 or 1500 rpm and drive away. As it 'really' warms up, I drop
it down.
Mike
TJim wrote:
>
> Yeah, I hate those. I have one on my Grand Waggy and I wish I could find a
> good alternative (with the exception of a manual one).
>
> --
> Jim
> --
> 98 TJ SE
> 90 SJ GW
> http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca...
> > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb
> > and see what happens.
> >
> > If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of
> > the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or
> > a torn diaphragm on the pump.
> >
> > Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas?
> >
> > Oh, the choke is an electric timer job.
> >
> > It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how
> > long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it
> > doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long
> > it has had 12 volts.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > >
> > > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message
> news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> > > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in
> upside
> > > > > down or the wrong one.
> > > > >
> > > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return
> line
> > > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor
> lock
> > > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting.
> If
> > > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> > > > >
> > > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
> > > >
> > > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> > > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> > > > the orientation of the return line.
> > >
> > > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10
> > > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I
> > > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works
> > > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner
> > > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the
> > > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put
> > > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not
> > > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and
> > > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes
> > > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this
> > > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once
> > > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry,
> > > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start
> > > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really
> > > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing
> > > here. Maybe not. Oh well.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause
> the
> > > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really
> drip
> > > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A
> visual
> > > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas
> line,
> > > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame,
> usually
> > > > > at the back one too...
> > > > >
> > > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> > > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> > > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> > > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> > > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> > > > times.)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have
> probably
> > > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep
> has
> > > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave
> at
> > > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet
> talk
> > > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket
> of
> > > > > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4
> times
> > > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those
> little
> > > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are
> bent
> > > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new.
> The
> > > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away
> from
> > > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug
> wires
> > > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec
> (though it
> > > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the
> hose
> > > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right
> before I
> > > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5
> minutes).
> > > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > > > > sometimes at noon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key.
> I
> > > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck
> if
> > > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open
> before
> > > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out
> the
> > > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will
> summon
> > > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always
> work,
> > > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is
> there a
> > > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get
> muddy
> > > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent
> mudpuddle, I
> > > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even
> take
> > > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But
> the
> > > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work
> clothes
> > > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their
> mercedes
> > > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good
> mechanic,
> > > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even
> before I
> > > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the
> throat
> > > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any
> sign of
> > > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has
> left
> > > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being
> lean.
> > > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand
> most
> > > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is
> quite
> > > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that
> it
> > > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates
> are
> > > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > > > > torture of it all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning
> starts,
> > > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting
> in
> > > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems
> with
> > > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual
> fuel
> > > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop
> the
> > > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most
> recent
> > > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bob Versluys
> > > > > > Florence, SC
> > > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"