87 YJ 258 Cold start problems (Long)
 

Maybe the experts here might be able to solve a problem with my 4.2 87
YJ, it is a beast to start in cold weather but starts fine after it
has been warmed up. I have had it to the "experts" several times and
so far they have solved nothing! When I take it to work I have
actually resorted to putting a ceramic heater under the hood, when I
do this it usually fires up just fine this has got to be telling me
something. (Northern Canada is where I live and it can get quite cold
here) Maybe this beast doesn't need to be choked when started?
The engine has 250K km on it and experiences some blow by which would
be expected, but damn I can still get it up to 130 km/h on the highway
and the only oil that it uses is what it blows back or what it leaks
out the valve cover.

New Parts I have installed:
Starter
Carter carb ( 1 month old)
Timing chain and gears
O2 sensor
Battery and starter including new heavy duty 1 guage wires
Plugs wires cap and rotor
Fuel pump / Fuel filter
(vent on top ....considering getting a non vented filter?)
PCV valve
K&N Air filter
Most vac hoses replaced and checked for leaks

Things I have done:

The beast always pinged when the timing was set correctly and I found
it was over advancing due to the vac advance being hooked up to
manifold vacuum, I switched it over to ported and was finally able to
set the timing where I could get some top end out of it.
I have set the choke anywhere from fully closed to just cracked open
(done when engine had sat over night) The choke appears to be working
ok as it will close off when it cools down and slowly open after a
successful start. The idle screws were set by the Dodge dealership
mechanic and I'm starting to wonder if this might be part of the
problem.
I checked the carb heater when I had the carb off and I have
actually wired it to a switch recently, I turn on the key and switch
on the heater for about 2 minutes then try to start....most times this
seems to help but I shouldn't have to be doing this.
The block heater works and I even installed an inline heater, I
realize that the inline doesn't actually circulate because the t-stat
will be closed but it does help to get warm air circulating fast. (I
did the Chevy heater fan mod on this YJ....best $40 I ever spent)

I'm no mechanic but I do dabble a bit, this vehicle is giving me fits,
I have considered several other options like the Nutter bypass or
putting in a new Ignition Module but I'm hoping someone here might
have some ideas. Here are several things I haven't checked and I'm not
sure if they would have any bearing on my problem but here goes.

EGR valve stuck open?
Cannister malfunctioning / plugged?
Computer?

TIA

Re: 87 YJ 258 Cold start problems (Long)
 

"Jeepster" <me@excite.com> wrote in message
news:lemctvka347jlpgngcvihp86ug29cungse@4ax.com...
> Maybe the experts here might be able to solve a problem with my 4.2 87
> YJ, it is a beast to start in cold weather but starts fine after it
> has been warmed up. I have had it to the "experts" several times and
> so far they have solved nothing! When I take it to work I have
> actually resorted to putting a ceramic heater under the hood, when I
> do this it usually fires up just fine this has got to be telling me
> something. (Northern Canada is where I live and it can get quite cold
> here) Maybe this beast doesn't need to be choked when started?
> The engine has 250K km on it and experiences some blow by which would
> be expected, but damn I can still get it up to 130 km/h on the highway
> and the only oil that it uses is what it blows back or what it leaks
> out the valve cover.
>
> New Parts I have installed:
> Starter
> Carter carb ( 1 month old)
> Timing chain and gears
> O2 sensor
> Battery and starter including new heavy duty 1 guage wires
> Plugs wires cap and rotor
> Fuel pump / Fuel filter
> (vent on top ....considering getting a non vented filter?)
> PCV valve
> K&N Air filter
> Most vac hoses replaced and checked for leaks
>
> Things I have done:
>
> The beast always pinged when the timing was set correctly and I found
> it was over advancing due to the vac advance being hooked up to
> manifold vacuum, I switched it over to ported and was finally able to
> set the timing where I could get some top end out of it.
> I have set the choke anywhere from fully closed to just cracked open
> (done when engine had sat over night) The choke appears to be working
> ok as it will close off when it cools down and slowly open after a
> successful start. The idle screws were set by the Dodge dealership
> mechanic and I'm starting to wonder if this might be part of the
> problem.
> I checked the carb heater when I had the carb off and I have
> actually wired it to a switch recently, I turn on the key and switch
> on the heater for about 2 minutes then try to start....most times this
> seems to help but I shouldn't have to be doing this.
> The block heater works and I even installed an inline heater, I
> realize that the inline doesn't actually circulate because the t-stat
> will be closed but it does help to get warm air circulating fast. (I
> did the Chevy heater fan mod on this YJ....best $40 I ever spent)
>
> I'm no mechanic but I do dabble a bit, this vehicle is giving me fits,
> I have considered several other options like the Nutter bypass or
> putting in a new Ignition Module but I'm hoping someone here might
> have some ideas. Here are several things I haven't checked and I'm not
> sure if they would have any bearing on my problem but here goes.
>
> EGR valve stuck open?
> Cannister malfunctioning / plugged?
> Computer?
>
> TIA


You should just sell it to me really, really cheap! ;-)

Seriously, it sounds like you've tried most options, but there are a few
other things worth mentioning. They are probably longshots, but won't cost a
lot, if anything, to try.

Have your coil tested to make sure it is putting out the proper voltage, or
you may just want to replace it. A little extra spark will have a tendency
to ignite a cold air fuel mixture more so than a weak spark, obviously.
Also, check for spark when the engine is cold. Pull a plug or use an extra
one, and hook one of the plug wires to it. Ground it to the engine and then
crank it over. You should see a bright blue spark. If the spark is yellow,
then you are not getting enough voltage to the plugs.

I don't know if your carb has the vacuum pulloff for the choke, but most do.
Make sure this isn't pulling the choke open while you are cranking the
engine over. It shouldn't be, but it is free to check and would cause the
engine not to receive enough fuel.

Make sure there is fuel in the carb after sitting overnight. Something may
be causing it to siphon back, or possibly drain into the engine. You can do
this by operating the throttle while you look down the throttle bores. Do
this with the engine off. You should see a steady stream of fuel coming from
the accelerator nozzles. If you don't see any fuel, the carb is either
draining, or the accelerator pump isn't working properly.

After cranking the engine over in the morning, check to see if the carb is
wet or dry in the throttle bores. this could indicate a rich or lean
condition while cranking. My guess is that it isn't getting enough fuel
which would be consistent with the heater helping to start the engine.

I'm sure Mike and the other guys will have some other more Jeep related
possibilities, but these are a few things that may show you where the
problem is.

Chris

Re: 87 YJ 258 Cold start problems (Long)
 

"Jeepster" <me@excite.com> wrote in message
news:lemctvka347jlpgngcvihp86ug29cungse@4ax.com...
> Maybe the experts here might be able to solve a problem with my 4.2 87
> YJ, it is a beast to start in cold weather but starts fine after it
> has been warmed up. I have had it to the "experts" several times and
> so far they have solved nothing! When I take it to work I have
> actually resorted to putting a ceramic heater under the hood, when I
> do this it usually fires up just fine this has got to be telling me
> something. (Northern Canada is where I live and it can get quite cold
> here) Maybe this beast doesn't need to be choked when started?
> The engine has 250K km on it and experiences some blow by which would
> be expected, but damn I can still get it up to 130 km/h on the highway
> and the only oil that it uses is what it blows back or what it leaks
> out the valve cover.
>
> New Parts I have installed:
> Starter
> Carter carb ( 1 month old)
> Timing chain and gears
> O2 sensor
> Battery and starter including new heavy duty 1 guage wires
> Plugs wires cap and rotor
> Fuel pump / Fuel filter
> (vent on top ....considering getting a non vented filter?)
> PCV valve
> K&N Air filter
> Most vac hoses replaced and checked for leaks
>
> Things I have done:
>
> The beast always pinged when the timing was set correctly and I found
> it was over advancing due to the vac advance being hooked up to
> manifold vacuum, I switched it over to ported and was finally able to
> set the timing where I could get some top end out of it.
> I have set the choke anywhere from fully closed to just cracked open
> (done when engine had sat over night) The choke appears to be working
> ok as it will close off when it cools down and slowly open after a
> successful start. The idle screws were set by the Dodge dealership
> mechanic and I'm starting to wonder if this might be part of the
> problem.
> I checked the carb heater when I had the carb off and I have
> actually wired it to a switch recently, I turn on the key and switch
> on the heater for about 2 minutes then try to start....most times this
> seems to help but I shouldn't have to be doing this.
> The block heater works and I even installed an inline heater, I
> realize that the inline doesn't actually circulate because the t-stat
> will be closed but it does help to get warm air circulating fast. (I
> did the Chevy heater fan mod on this YJ....best $40 I ever spent)
>
> I'm no mechanic but I do dabble a bit, this vehicle is giving me fits,
> I have considered several other options like the Nutter bypass or
> putting in a new Ignition Module but I'm hoping someone here might
> have some ideas. Here are several things I haven't checked and I'm not
> sure if they would have any bearing on my problem but here goes.
>
> EGR valve stuck open?
> Cannister malfunctioning / plugged?
> Computer?
>
> TIA


You should just sell it to me really, really cheap! ;-)

Seriously, it sounds like you've tried most options, but there are a few
other things worth mentioning. They are probably longshots, but won't cost a
lot, if anything, to try.

Have your coil tested to make sure it is putting out the proper voltage, or
you may just want to replace it. A little extra spark will have a tendency
to ignite a cold air fuel mixture more so than a weak spark, obviously.
Also, check for spark when the engine is cold. Pull a plug or use an extra
one, and hook one of the plug wires to it. Ground it to the engine and then
crank it over. You should see a bright blue spark. If the spark is yellow,
then you are not getting enough voltage to the plugs.

I don't know if your carb has the vacuum pulloff for the choke, but most do.
Make sure this isn't pulling the choke open while you are cranking the
engine over. It shouldn't be, but it is free to check and would cause the
engine not to receive enough fuel.

Make sure there is fuel in the carb after sitting overnight. Something may
be causing it to siphon back, or possibly drain into the engine. You can do
this by operating the throttle while you look down the throttle bores. Do
this with the engine off. You should see a steady stream of fuel coming from
the accelerator nozzles. If you don't see any fuel, the carb is either
draining, or the accelerator pump isn't working properly.

After cranking the engine over in the morning, check to see if the carb is
wet or dry in the throttle bores. this could indicate a rich or lean
condition while cranking. My guess is that it isn't getting enough fuel
which would be consistent with the heater helping to start the engine.

I'm sure Mike and the other guys will have some other more Jeep related
possibilities, but these are a few things that may show you where the
problem is.

Chris

Re: 87 YJ 258 Cold start problems (Long)
 

"Jeepster" <me@excite.com> wrote in message
news:lemctvka347jlpgngcvihp86ug29cungse@4ax.com...
> Maybe the experts here might be able to solve a problem with my 4.2 87
> YJ, it is a beast to start in cold weather but starts fine after it
> has been warmed up. I have had it to the "experts" several times and
> so far they have solved nothing! When I take it to work I have
> actually resorted to putting a ceramic heater under the hood, when I
> do this it usually fires up just fine this has got to be telling me
> something. (Northern Canada is where I live and it can get quite cold
> here) Maybe this beast doesn't need to be choked when started?
> The engine has 250K km on it and experiences some blow by which would
> be expected, but damn I can still get it up to 130 km/h on the highway
> and the only oil that it uses is what it blows back or what it leaks
> out the valve cover.
>
> New Parts I have installed:
> Starter
> Carter carb ( 1 month old)
> Timing chain and gears
> O2 sensor
> Battery and starter including new heavy duty 1 guage wires
> Plugs wires cap and rotor
> Fuel pump / Fuel filter
> (vent on top ....considering getting a non vented filter?)
> PCV valve
> K&N Air filter
> Most vac hoses replaced and checked for leaks
>
> Things I have done:
>
> The beast always pinged when the timing was set correctly and I found
> it was over advancing due to the vac advance being hooked up to
> manifold vacuum, I switched it over to ported and was finally able to
> set the timing where I could get some top end out of it.
> I have set the choke anywhere from fully closed to just cracked open
> (done when engine had sat over night) The choke appears to be working
> ok as it will close off when it cools down and slowly open after a
> successful start. The idle screws were set by the Dodge dealership
> mechanic and I'm starting to wonder if this might be part of the
> problem.
> I checked the carb heater when I had the carb off and I have
> actually wired it to a switch recently, I turn on the key and switch
> on the heater for about 2 minutes then try to start....most times this
> seems to help but I shouldn't have to be doing this.
> The block heater works and I even installed an inline heater, I
> realize that the inline doesn't actually circulate because the t-stat
> will be closed but it does help to get warm air circulating fast. (I
> did the Chevy heater fan mod on this YJ....best $40 I ever spent)
>
> I'm no mechanic but I do dabble a bit, this vehicle is giving me fits,
> I have considered several other options like the Nutter bypass or
> putting in a new Ignition Module but I'm hoping someone here might
> have some ideas. Here are several things I haven't checked and I'm not
> sure if they would have any bearing on my problem but here goes.
>
> EGR valve stuck open?
> Cannister malfunctioning / plugged?
> Computer?
>
> TIA


You should just sell it to me really, really cheap! ;-)

Seriously, it sounds like you've tried most options, but there are a few
other things worth mentioning. They are probably longshots, but won't cost a
lot, if anything, to try.

Have your coil tested to make sure it is putting out the proper voltage, or
you may just want to replace it. A little extra spark will have a tendency
to ignite a cold air fuel mixture more so than a weak spark, obviously.
Also, check for spark when the engine is cold. Pull a plug or use an extra
one, and hook one of the plug wires to it. Ground it to the engine and then
crank it over. You should see a bright blue spark. If the spark is yellow,
then you are not getting enough voltage to the plugs.

I don't know if your carb has the vacuum pulloff for the choke, but most do.
Make sure this isn't pulling the choke open while you are cranking the
engine over. It shouldn't be, but it is free to check and would cause the
engine not to receive enough fuel.

Make sure there is fuel in the carb after sitting overnight. Something may
be causing it to siphon back, or possibly drain into the engine. You can do
this by operating the throttle while you look down the throttle bores. Do
this with the engine off. You should see a steady stream of fuel coming from
the accelerator nozzles. If you don't see any fuel, the carb is either
draining, or the accelerator pump isn't working properly.

After cranking the engine over in the morning, check to see if the carb is
wet or dry in the throttle bores. this could indicate a rich or lean
condition while cranking. My guess is that it isn't getting enough fuel
which would be consistent with the heater helping to start the engine.

I'm sure Mike and the other guys will have some other more Jeep related
possibilities, but these are a few things that may show you where the
problem is.

Chris

Re: 87 YJ 258 Cold start problems (Long)
 

Hmmmm....

Pinhole leak in the gas line on the suction side of the pump is my wild
guess.

This will not drip on the ground, but is big enough to empty the gas
line by letting air in when it is off.

I would be checking the line visually and be looking for a stain on the
pipe. Normally I see it at the back clamp to the frame or at the front
clamp to the frame where the rubber hoses hook on.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Jeepster wrote:
>
> Maybe the experts here might be able to solve a problem with my 4.2 87
> YJ, it is a beast to start in cold weather but starts fine after it
> has been warmed up. I have had it to the "experts" several times and
> so far they have solved nothing! When I take it to work I have
> actually resorted to putting a ceramic heater under the hood, when I
> do this it usually fires up just fine this has got to be telling me
> something. (Northern Canada is where I live and it can get quite cold
> here) Maybe this beast doesn't need to be choked when started?
> The engine has 250K km on it and experiences some blow by which would
> be expected, but damn I can still get it up to 130 km/h on the highway
> and the only oil that it uses is what it blows back or what it leaks
> out the valve cover.
>
> New Parts I have installed:
> Starter
> Carter carb ( 1 month old)
> Timing chain and gears
> O2 sensor
> Battery and starter including new heavy duty 1 guage wires
> Plugs wires cap and rotor
> Fuel pump / Fuel filter
> (vent on top ....considering getting a non vented filter?)
> PCV valve
> K&N Air filter
> Most vac hoses replaced and checked for leaks
>
> Things I have done:
>
> The beast always pinged when the timing was set correctly and I found
> it was over advancing due to the vac advance being hooked up to
> manifold vacuum, I switched it over to ported and was finally able to
> set the timing where I could get some top end out of it.
> I have set the choke anywhere from fully closed to just cracked open
> (done when engine had sat over night) The choke appears to be working
> ok as it will close off when it cools down and slowly open after a
> successful start. The idle screws were set by the Dodge dealership
> mechanic and I'm starting to wonder if this might be part of the
> problem.
> I checked the carb heater when I had the carb off and I have
> actually wired it to a switch recently, I turn on the key and switch
> on the heater for about 2 minutes then try to start....most times this
> seems to help but I shouldn't have to be doing this.
> The block heater works and I even installed an inline heater, I
> realize that the inline doesn't actually circulate because the t-stat
> will be closed but it does help to get warm air circulating fast. (I
> did the Chevy heater fan mod on this YJ....best $40 I ever spent)
>
> I'm no mechanic but I do dabble a bit, this vehicle is giving me fits,
> I have considered several other options like the Nutter bypass or
> putting in a new Ignition Module but I'm hoping someone here might
> have some ideas. Here are several things I haven't checked and I'm not
> sure if they would have any bearing on my problem but here goes.
>
> EGR valve stuck open?
> Cannister malfunctioning / plugged?
> Computer?
>
> TIA

Re: 87 YJ 258 Cold start problems (Long)
 

Hmmmm....

Pinhole leak in the gas line on the suction side of the pump is my wild
guess.

This will not drip on the ground, but is big enough to empty the gas
line by letting air in when it is off.

I would be checking the line visually and be looking for a stain on the
pipe. Normally I see it at the back clamp to the frame or at the front
clamp to the frame where the rubber hoses hook on.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Jeepster wrote:
>
> Maybe the experts here might be able to solve a problem with my 4.2 87
> YJ, it is a beast to start in cold weather but starts fine after it
> has been warmed up. I have had it to the "experts" several times and
> so far they have solved nothing! When I take it to work I have
> actually resorted to putting a ceramic heater under the hood, when I
> do this it usually fires up just fine this has got to be telling me
> something. (Northern Canada is where I live and it can get quite cold
> here) Maybe this beast doesn't need to be choked when started?
> The engine has 250K km on it and experiences some blow by which would
> be expected, but damn I can still get it up to 130 km/h on the highway
> and the only oil that it uses is what it blows back or what it leaks
> out the valve cover.
>
> New Parts I have installed:
> Starter
> Carter carb ( 1 month old)
> Timing chain and gears
> O2 sensor
> Battery and starter including new heavy duty 1 guage wires
> Plugs wires cap and rotor
> Fuel pump / Fuel filter
> (vent on top ....considering getting a non vented filter?)
> PCV valve
> K&N Air filter
> Most vac hoses replaced and checked for leaks
>
> Things I have done:
>
> The beast always pinged when the timing was set correctly and I found
> it was over advancing due to the vac advance being hooked up to
> manifold vacuum, I switched it over to ported and was finally able to
> set the timing where I could get some top end out of it.
> I have set the choke anywhere from fully closed to just cracked open
> (done when engine had sat over night) The choke appears to be working
> ok as it will close off when it cools down and slowly open after a
> successful start. The idle screws were set by the Dodge dealership
> mechanic and I'm starting to wonder if this might be part of the
> problem.
> I checked the carb heater when I had the carb off and I have
> actually wired it to a switch recently, I turn on the key and switch
> on the heater for about 2 minutes then try to start....most times this
> seems to help but I shouldn't have to be doing this.
> The block heater works and I even installed an inline heater, I
> realize that the inline doesn't actually circulate because the t-stat
> will be closed but it does help to get warm air circulating fast. (I
> did the Chevy heater fan mod on this YJ....best $40 I ever spent)
>
> I'm no mechanic but I do dabble a bit, this vehicle is giving me fits,
> I have considered several other options like the Nutter bypass or
> putting in a new Ignition Module but I'm hoping someone here might
> have some ideas. Here are several things I haven't checked and I'm not
> sure if they would have any bearing on my problem but here goes.
>
> EGR valve stuck open?
> Cannister malfunctioning / plugged?
> Computer?
>
> TIA

Re: 87 YJ 258 Cold start problems (Long)
 

Hmmmm....

Pinhole leak in the gas line on the suction side of the pump is my wild
guess.

This will not drip on the ground, but is big enough to empty the gas
line by letting air in when it is off.

I would be checking the line visually and be looking for a stain on the
pipe. Normally I see it at the back clamp to the frame or at the front
clamp to the frame where the rubber hoses hook on.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Jeepster wrote:
>
> Maybe the experts here might be able to solve a problem with my 4.2 87
> YJ, it is a beast to start in cold weather but starts fine after it
> has been warmed up. I have had it to the "experts" several times and
> so far they have solved nothing! When I take it to work I have
> actually resorted to putting a ceramic heater under the hood, when I
> do this it usually fires up just fine this has got to be telling me
> something. (Northern Canada is where I live and it can get quite cold
> here) Maybe this beast doesn't need to be choked when started?
> The engine has 250K km on it and experiences some blow by which would
> be expected, but damn I can still get it up to 130 km/h on the highway
> and the only oil that it uses is what it blows back or what it leaks
> out the valve cover.
>
> New Parts I have installed:
> Starter
> Carter carb ( 1 month old)
> Timing chain and gears
> O2 sensor
> Battery and starter including new heavy duty 1 guage wires
> Plugs wires cap and rotor
> Fuel pump / Fuel filter
> (vent on top ....considering getting a non vented filter?)
> PCV valve
> K&N Air filter
> Most vac hoses replaced and checked for leaks
>
> Things I have done:
>
> The beast always pinged when the timing was set correctly and I found
> it was over advancing due to the vac advance being hooked up to
> manifold vacuum, I switched it over to ported and was finally able to
> set the timing where I could get some top end out of it.
> I have set the choke anywhere from fully closed to just cracked open
> (done when engine had sat over night) The choke appears to be working
> ok as it will close off when it cools down and slowly open after a
> successful start. The idle screws were set by the Dodge dealership
> mechanic and I'm starting to wonder if this might be part of the
> problem.
> I checked the carb heater when I had the carb off and I have
> actually wired it to a switch recently, I turn on the key and switch
> on the heater for about 2 minutes then try to start....most times this
> seems to help but I shouldn't have to be doing this.
> The block heater works and I even installed an inline heater, I
> realize that the inline doesn't actually circulate because the t-stat
> will be closed but it does help to get warm air circulating fast. (I
> did the Chevy heater fan mod on this YJ....best $40 I ever spent)
>
> I'm no mechanic but I do dabble a bit, this vehicle is giving me fits,
> I have considered several other options like the Nutter bypass or
> putting in a new Ignition Module but I'm hoping someone here might
> have some ideas. Here are several things I haven't checked and I'm not
> sure if they would have any bearing on my problem but here goes.
>
> EGR valve stuck open?
> Cannister malfunctioning / plugged?
> Computer?
>
> TIA

Re: 87 YJ 258 Cold start problems (Long)
 

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:55:25 GMT, "c" <c@me.org> wrote:

>
>"Jeepster" <me@excite.com> wrote in message
>news:lemctvka347jlpgngcvihp86ug29cungse@4ax.com.. .
>> Maybe the experts here might be able to solve a problem with my 4.2 87
>> YJ, it is a beast to start in cold weather but starts fine after it
>> has been warmed up. I have had it to the "experts" several times and
>> so far they have solved nothing! When I take it to work I have
>> actually resorted to putting a ceramic heater under the hood, when I
>> do this it usually fires up just fine this has got to be telling me
>> something. (Northern Canada is where I live and it can get quite cold
>> here) Maybe this beast doesn't need to be choked when started?
>> The engine has 250K km on it and experiences some blow by which would
>> be expected, but damn I can still get it up to 130 km/h on the highway
>> and the only oil that it uses is what it blows back or what it leaks
>> out the valve cover.
Some of my ramblings clipped off.
>>
>> TIA
>
>
>You should just sell it to me really, really cheap! ;-)

http://members.shaw.ca/kb57/jeep.htm
Here it is if your serious :) I bought it from the neighbor for $4000
Cdn which would be about $3300 US dollars it is a great vehicle in the
warm weather and I have big plans for it next spring.....I just need
it to make it thru 1 more winter before I do a major on it. I gave my
son my 93 YJ as a grad present, that 93 starts in -30 with out being
plugged in but has a 4 banger that is quite cold in the winter months.

>Seriously, it sounds like you've tried most options, but there are a few
>other things worth mentioning. They are probably longshots, but won't cost a
>lot, if anything, to try.
>
>Have your coil tested to make sure it is putting out the proper voltage, or
>you may just want to replace it. A little extra spark will have a tendency
>to ignite a cold air fuel mixture more so than a weak spark, obviously.
>Also, check for spark when the engine is cold. Pull a plug or use an extra
>one, and hook one of the plug wires to it. Ground it to the engine and then
>crank it over. You should see a bright blue spark. If the spark is yellow,
>then you are not getting enough voltage to the plugs.
I forgot to mention that I replaced the coil with a Hi Performance
coil last spring but I will check the spark.
>
>I don't know if your carb has the vacuum pulloff for the choke, but most do.
>Make sure this isn't pulling the choke open while you are cranking the
>engine over. It shouldn't be, but it is free to check and would cause the
>engine not to receive enough fuel.
It has a vacuum pull off and it doesn't pull off the choke until it
has been running for a bit, the pull off and electric choke all came
with the new carb so it is all new and appears to be functioning.
>
>Make sure there is fuel in the carb after sitting overnight. Something may
>be causing it to siphon back, or possibly drain into the engine. You can do
>this by operating the throttle while you look down the throttle bores. Do
>this with the engine off. You should see a steady stream of fuel coming from
>the accelerator nozzles. If you don't see any fuel, the carb is either
>draining, or the accelerator pump isn't working properly.
This was the reason I changed the fuel pump as I suspected that it
might be leaking internally back to the tank, the stream from the
bores is strong when I work the throttle linkage. I just changed out
the fuel filter a few minutes ago with a non vented type, I just
plugged the vent line to the canister... the filter wasn't plugged but
it is worth a try.
>
>After cranking the engine over in the morning, check to see if the carb is
>wet or dry in the throttle bores. this could indicate a rich or lean
>condition while cranking. My guess is that it isn't getting enough fuel
>which would be consistent with the heater helping to start the engine.
>
It gets rich when it doesn't want to start I sometimes have to put the
throttle right to floor once it floods to get it to fire. I hate doing
this as it will sometimes blow back out the carb and it can't be good
for the plugs.
>I'm sure Mike and the other guys will have some other more Jeep related
>possibilities, but these are a few things that may show you where the
>problem is.
>
>Chris

Thanks Chris the spark is something I had no idea about and it is
quite possible that the coil is defective even if it is new.

Re: 87 YJ 258 Cold start problems (Long)
 

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:55:25 GMT, "c" <c@me.org> wrote:

>
>"Jeepster" <me@excite.com> wrote in message
>news:lemctvka347jlpgngcvihp86ug29cungse@4ax.com.. .
>> Maybe the experts here might be able to solve a problem with my 4.2 87
>> YJ, it is a beast to start in cold weather but starts fine after it
>> has been warmed up. I have had it to the "experts" several times and
>> so far they have solved nothing! When I take it to work I have
>> actually resorted to putting a ceramic heater under the hood, when I
>> do this it usually fires up just fine this has got to be telling me
>> something. (Northern Canada is where I live and it can get quite cold
>> here) Maybe this beast doesn't need to be choked when started?
>> The engine has 250K km on it and experiences some blow by which would
>> be expected, but damn I can still get it up to 130 km/h on the highway
>> and the only oil that it uses is what it blows back or what it leaks
>> out the valve cover.
Some of my ramblings clipped off.
>>
>> TIA
>
>
>You should just sell it to me really, really cheap! ;-)

http://members.shaw.ca/kb57/jeep.htm
Here it is if your serious :) I bought it from the neighbor for $4000
Cdn which would be about $3300 US dollars it is a great vehicle in the
warm weather and I have big plans for it next spring.....I just need
it to make it thru 1 more winter before I do a major on it. I gave my
son my 93 YJ as a grad present, that 93 starts in -30 with out being
plugged in but has a 4 banger that is quite cold in the winter months.

>Seriously, it sounds like you've tried most options, but there are a few
>other things worth mentioning. They are probably longshots, but won't cost a
>lot, if anything, to try.
>
>Have your coil tested to make sure it is putting out the proper voltage, or
>you may just want to replace it. A little extra spark will have a tendency
>to ignite a cold air fuel mixture more so than a weak spark, obviously.
>Also, check for spark when the engine is cold. Pull a plug or use an extra
>one, and hook one of the plug wires to it. Ground it to the engine and then
>crank it over. You should see a bright blue spark. If the spark is yellow,
>then you are not getting enough voltage to the plugs.
I forgot to mention that I replaced the coil with a Hi Performance
coil last spring but I will check the spark.
>
>I don't know if your carb has the vacuum pulloff for the choke, but most do.
>Make sure this isn't pulling the choke open while you are cranking the
>engine over. It shouldn't be, but it is free to check and would cause the
>engine not to receive enough fuel.
It has a vacuum pull off and it doesn't pull off the choke until it
has been running for a bit, the pull off and electric choke all came
with the new carb so it is all new and appears to be functioning.
>
>Make sure there is fuel in the carb after sitting overnight. Something may
>be causing it to siphon back, or possibly drain into the engine. You can do
>this by operating the throttle while you look down the throttle bores. Do
>this with the engine off. You should see a steady stream of fuel coming from
>the accelerator nozzles. If you don't see any fuel, the carb is either
>draining, or the accelerator pump isn't working properly.
This was the reason I changed the fuel pump as I suspected that it
might be leaking internally back to the tank, the stream from the
bores is strong when I work the throttle linkage. I just changed out
the fuel filter a few minutes ago with a non vented type, I just
plugged the vent line to the canister... the filter wasn't plugged but
it is worth a try.
>
>After cranking the engine over in the morning, check to see if the carb is
>wet or dry in the throttle bores. this could indicate a rich or lean
>condition while cranking. My guess is that it isn't getting enough fuel
>which would be consistent with the heater helping to start the engine.
>
It gets rich when it doesn't want to start I sometimes have to put the
throttle right to floor once it floods to get it to fire. I hate doing
this as it will sometimes blow back out the carb and it can't be good
for the plugs.
>I'm sure Mike and the other guys will have some other more Jeep related
>possibilities, but these are a few things that may show you where the
>problem is.
>
>Chris

Thanks Chris the spark is something I had no idea about and it is
quite possible that the coil is defective even if it is new.

Re: 87 YJ 258 Cold start problems (Long)
 

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:55:25 GMT, "c" <c@me.org> wrote:

>
>"Jeepster" <me@excite.com> wrote in message
>news:lemctvka347jlpgngcvihp86ug29cungse@4ax.com.. .
>> Maybe the experts here might be able to solve a problem with my 4.2 87
>> YJ, it is a beast to start in cold weather but starts fine after it
>> has been warmed up. I have had it to the "experts" several times and
>> so far they have solved nothing! When I take it to work I have
>> actually resorted to putting a ceramic heater under the hood, when I
>> do this it usually fires up just fine this has got to be telling me
>> something. (Northern Canada is where I live and it can get quite cold
>> here) Maybe this beast doesn't need to be choked when started?
>> The engine has 250K km on it and experiences some blow by which would
>> be expected, but damn I can still get it up to 130 km/h on the highway
>> and the only oil that it uses is what it blows back or what it leaks
>> out the valve cover.
Some of my ramblings clipped off.
>>
>> TIA
>
>
>You should just sell it to me really, really cheap! ;-)

http://members.shaw.ca/kb57/jeep.htm
Here it is if your serious :) I bought it from the neighbor for $4000
Cdn which would be about $3300 US dollars it is a great vehicle in the
warm weather and I have big plans for it next spring.....I just need
it to make it thru 1 more winter before I do a major on it. I gave my
son my 93 YJ as a grad present, that 93 starts in -30 with out being
plugged in but has a 4 banger that is quite cold in the winter months.

>Seriously, it sounds like you've tried most options, but there are a few
>other things worth mentioning. They are probably longshots, but won't cost a
>lot, if anything, to try.
>
>Have your coil tested to make sure it is putting out the proper voltage, or
>you may just want to replace it. A little extra spark will have a tendency
>to ignite a cold air fuel mixture more so than a weak spark, obviously.
>Also, check for spark when the engine is cold. Pull a plug or use an extra
>one, and hook one of the plug wires to it. Ground it to the engine and then
>crank it over. You should see a bright blue spark. If the spark is yellow,
>then you are not getting enough voltage to the plugs.
I forgot to mention that I replaced the coil with a Hi Performance
coil last spring but I will check the spark.
>
>I don't know if your carb has the vacuum pulloff for the choke, but most do.
>Make sure this isn't pulling the choke open while you are cranking the
>engine over. It shouldn't be, but it is free to check and would cause the
>engine not to receive enough fuel.
It has a vacuum pull off and it doesn't pull off the choke until it
has been running for a bit, the pull off and electric choke all came
with the new carb so it is all new and appears to be functioning.
>
>Make sure there is fuel in the carb after sitting overnight. Something may
>be causing it to siphon back, or possibly drain into the engine. You can do
>this by operating the throttle while you look down the throttle bores. Do
>this with the engine off. You should see a steady stream of fuel coming from
>the accelerator nozzles. If you don't see any fuel, the carb is either
>draining, or the accelerator pump isn't working properly.
This was the reason I changed the fuel pump as I suspected that it
might be leaking internally back to the tank, the stream from the
bores is strong when I work the throttle linkage. I just changed out
the fuel filter a few minutes ago with a non vented type, I just
plugged the vent line to the canister... the filter wasn't plugged but
it is worth a try.
>
>After cranking the engine over in the morning, check to see if the carb is
>wet or dry in the throttle bores. this could indicate a rich or lean
>condition while cranking. My guess is that it isn't getting enough fuel
>which would be consistent with the heater helping to start the engine.
>
It gets rich when it doesn't want to start I sometimes have to put the
throttle right to floor once it floods to get it to fire. I hate doing
this as it will sometimes blow back out the carb and it can't be good
for the plugs.
>I'm sure Mike and the other guys will have some other more Jeep related
>possibilities, but these are a few things that may show you where the
>problem is.
>
>Chris

Thanks Chris the spark is something I had no idea about and it is
quite possible that the coil is defective even if it is new.