Lee Ayrton

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, Steve wrote:

>>> Found one for sale. original owner; 174k miles; 4cyl; 4 spd; some body
>>> rust; 31" BFG's in decent shape; currently registered but needs PA
>>> inspection. . $1000.
>>> Keep the 4cyl? Can it take a 6cyl? This would be my first project car.
>>> Welcome any comments.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Steve
>>
>>
>> A 6-cylinder? On a CJ?????? Completely unheardof. ;-)
>
> How about a Chevy 350? But seriously...
> I went to look at it and drive it after work. It needs a repair to one wiper
> blade and a patch in the floor to pass inspection according to the seller.
> I'll talk to the inspection station on Monday. There are several holes in
> the floor that need to be patched. the are other rust spots in the body that
> will need to be taken care of too. The original 5 speed transmission was
> replaced with a four speed and the clutch and pressure plate replaced at the
> same time. The engine ran strong. Everything else is original. Soft top
> only, new doors. It's black and it looks baaaad. I can buy it for a $1000.
> What do you think?

I think that any CJ that's streetable with a little bit of work is worth
at least $1K. You might want to look into how much smog equipment is
missing and how much you'll have to replace/restore to register it.

Certainly check the last foot and a half of the frame for rust-through --
use something sharp like a long thin screwdriver and a hammer. Also pick
up on the body by the left and right rear wheel wells to see if the tub is
still firmly bolted to the frame, there are rust-through issues with both
the tub and the frame mounting points. Rock the seats left/right to see
if their mounting points are still solid.

Someone else will have to tell you if the 258/I6 is a straight bolt-up
replacement for the I4 or not (there are, at least, no sheet metal issues
with the swap), but the I6 is certainly a hearty engine.

Lee Ayrton

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, Steve wrote:

>>> Found one for sale. original owner; 174k miles; 4cyl; 4 spd; some body
>>> rust; 31" BFG's in decent shape; currently registered but needs PA
>>> inspection. . $1000.
>>> Keep the 4cyl? Can it take a 6cyl? This would be my first project car.
>>> Welcome any comments.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Steve
>>
>>
>> A 6-cylinder? On a CJ?????? Completely unheardof. ;-)
>
> How about a Chevy 350? But seriously...
> I went to look at it and drive it after work. It needs a repair to one wiper
> blade and a patch in the floor to pass inspection according to the seller.
> I'll talk to the inspection station on Monday. There are several holes in
> the floor that need to be patched. the are other rust spots in the body that
> will need to be taken care of too. The original 5 speed transmission was
> replaced with a four speed and the clutch and pressure plate replaced at the
> same time. The engine ran strong. Everything else is original. Soft top
> only, new doors. It's black and it looks baaaad. I can buy it for a $1000.
> What do you think?

I think that any CJ that's streetable with a little bit of work is worth
at least $1K. You might want to look into how much smog equipment is
missing and how much you'll have to replace/restore to register it.

Certainly check the last foot and a half of the frame for rust-through --
use something sharp like a long thin screwdriver and a hammer. Also pick
up on the body by the left and right rear wheel wells to see if the tub is
still firmly bolted to the frame, there are rust-through issues with both
the tub and the frame mounting points. Rock the seats left/right to see
if their mounting points are still solid.

Someone else will have to tell you if the 258/I6 is a straight bolt-up
replacement for the I4 or not (there are, at least, no sheet metal issues
with the swap), but the I6 is certainly a hearty engine.

Lee Ayrton

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, Steve wrote:

>>> Found one for sale. original owner; 174k miles; 4cyl; 4 spd; some body
>>> rust; 31" BFG's in decent shape; currently registered but needs PA
>>> inspection. . $1000.
>>> Keep the 4cyl? Can it take a 6cyl? This would be my first project car.
>>> Welcome any comments.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Steve
>>
>>
>> A 6-cylinder? On a CJ?????? Completely unheardof. ;-)
>
> How about a Chevy 350? But seriously...
> I went to look at it and drive it after work. It needs a repair to one wiper
> blade and a patch in the floor to pass inspection according to the seller.
> I'll talk to the inspection station on Monday. There are several holes in
> the floor that need to be patched. the are other rust spots in the body that
> will need to be taken care of too. The original 5 speed transmission was
> replaced with a four speed and the clutch and pressure plate replaced at the
> same time. The engine ran strong. Everything else is original. Soft top
> only, new doors. It's black and it looks baaaad. I can buy it for a $1000.
> What do you think?

I think that any CJ that's streetable with a little bit of work is worth
at least $1K. You might want to look into how much smog equipment is
missing and how much you'll have to replace/restore to register it.

Certainly check the last foot and a half of the frame for rust-through --
use something sharp like a long thin screwdriver and a hammer. Also pick
up on the body by the left and right rear wheel wells to see if the tub is
still firmly bolted to the frame, there are rust-through issues with both
the tub and the frame mounting points. Rock the seats left/right to see
if their mounting points are still solid.

Someone else will have to tell you if the 258/I6 is a straight bolt-up
replacement for the I4 or not (there are, at least, no sheet metal issues
with the swap), but the I6 is certainly a hearty engine.

Steve

On 7/24/2004 2:09 PM, Lee Ayrton wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, Steve wrote:
>
>>>> Found one for sale. original owner; 174k miles; 4cyl; 4 spd; some
>>>> body rust; 31" BFG's in decent shape; currently registered but needs
>>>> PA inspection. . $1000.
>>>> Keep the 4cyl? Can it take a 6cyl? This would be my first project
>>>> car. Welcome any comments.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A 6-cylinder? On a CJ?????? Completely unheardof. ;-)
>>
>>
>> How about a Chevy 350? But seriously...
>> I went to look at it and drive it after work. It needs a repair to
>> one wiper blade and a patch in the floor to pass inspection according
>> to the seller. I'll talk to the inspection station on Monday. There
>> are several holes in the floor that need to be patched. the are other
>> rust spots in the body that will need to be taken care of too. The
>> original 5 speed transmission was replaced with a four speed and the
>> clutch and pressure plate replaced at the same time. The engine ran
>> strong. Everything else is original. Soft top only, new doors. It's
>> black and it looks baaaad. I can buy it for a $1000.
>> What do you think?
>
>
> I think that any CJ that's streetable with a little bit of work is worth
> at least $1K. You might want to look into how much smog equipment is
> missing and how much you'll have to replace/restore to register it.
>
> Certainly check the last foot and a half of the frame for rust-through
> -- use something sharp like a long thin screwdriver and a hammer. Also
> pick up on the body by the left and right rear wheel wells to see if the
> tub is still firmly bolted to the frame, there are rust-through issues
> with both the tub and the frame mounting points. Rock the seats
> left/right to see if their mounting points are still solid.
>
> Someone else will have to tell you if the 258/I6 is a straight bolt-up
> replacement for the I4 or not (there are, at least, no sheet metal
> issues with the swap), but the I6 is certainly a hearty engine.

OK, I'll check the frame and tub issues more carefully. I'm assuming
that the tub can be cut and patched if it's really bad, is that
realistic? Is tub lining and or replacement in my future? As for the
smog equipment, my county in PA started emission testing in 12/03 and
provides for an exemption for vehicles driven under 5000 miles annually,
which works for me.
Thanks for patience with the newbie questions.

Steve

Steve

On 7/24/2004 2:09 PM, Lee Ayrton wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, Steve wrote:
>
>>>> Found one for sale. original owner; 174k miles; 4cyl; 4 spd; some
>>>> body rust; 31" BFG's in decent shape; currently registered but needs
>>>> PA inspection. . $1000.
>>>> Keep the 4cyl? Can it take a 6cyl? This would be my first project
>>>> car. Welcome any comments.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A 6-cylinder? On a CJ?????? Completely unheardof. ;-)
>>
>>
>> How about a Chevy 350? But seriously...
>> I went to look at it and drive it after work. It needs a repair to
>> one wiper blade and a patch in the floor to pass inspection according
>> to the seller. I'll talk to the inspection station on Monday. There
>> are several holes in the floor that need to be patched. the are other
>> rust spots in the body that will need to be taken care of too. The
>> original 5 speed transmission was replaced with a four speed and the
>> clutch and pressure plate replaced at the same time. The engine ran
>> strong. Everything else is original. Soft top only, new doors. It's
>> black and it looks baaaad. I can buy it for a $1000.
>> What do you think?
>
>
> I think that any CJ that's streetable with a little bit of work is worth
> at least $1K. You might want to look into how much smog equipment is
> missing and how much you'll have to replace/restore to register it.
>
> Certainly check the last foot and a half of the frame for rust-through
> -- use something sharp like a long thin screwdriver and a hammer. Also
> pick up on the body by the left and right rear wheel wells to see if the
> tub is still firmly bolted to the frame, there are rust-through issues
> with both the tub and the frame mounting points. Rock the seats
> left/right to see if their mounting points are still solid.
>
> Someone else will have to tell you if the 258/I6 is a straight bolt-up
> replacement for the I4 or not (there are, at least, no sheet metal
> issues with the swap), but the I6 is certainly a hearty engine.

OK, I'll check the frame and tub issues more carefully. I'm assuming
that the tub can be cut and patched if it's really bad, is that
realistic? Is tub lining and or replacement in my future? As for the
smog equipment, my county in PA started emission testing in 12/03 and
provides for an exemption for vehicles driven under 5000 miles annually,
which works for me.
Thanks for patience with the newbie questions.

Steve

Steve

On 7/24/2004 2:09 PM, Lee Ayrton wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, Steve wrote:
>
>>>> Found one for sale. original owner; 174k miles; 4cyl; 4 spd; some
>>>> body rust; 31" BFG's in decent shape; currently registered but needs
>>>> PA inspection. . $1000.
>>>> Keep the 4cyl? Can it take a 6cyl? This would be my first project
>>>> car. Welcome any comments.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A 6-cylinder? On a CJ?????? Completely unheardof. ;-)
>>
>>
>> How about a Chevy 350? But seriously...
>> I went to look at it and drive it after work. It needs a repair to
>> one wiper blade and a patch in the floor to pass inspection according
>> to the seller. I'll talk to the inspection station on Monday. There
>> are several holes in the floor that need to be patched. the are other
>> rust spots in the body that will need to be taken care of too. The
>> original 5 speed transmission was replaced with a four speed and the
>> clutch and pressure plate replaced at the same time. The engine ran
>> strong. Everything else is original. Soft top only, new doors. It's
>> black and it looks baaaad. I can buy it for a $1000.
>> What do you think?
>
>
> I think that any CJ that's streetable with a little bit of work is worth
> at least $1K. You might want to look into how much smog equipment is
> missing and how much you'll have to replace/restore to register it.
>
> Certainly check the last foot and a half of the frame for rust-through
> -- use something sharp like a long thin screwdriver and a hammer. Also
> pick up on the body by the left and right rear wheel wells to see if the
> tub is still firmly bolted to the frame, there are rust-through issues
> with both the tub and the frame mounting points. Rock the seats
> left/right to see if their mounting points are still solid.
>
> Someone else will have to tell you if the 258/I6 is a straight bolt-up
> replacement for the I4 or not (there are, at least, no sheet metal
> issues with the swap), but the I6 is certainly a hearty engine.

OK, I'll check the frame and tub issues more carefully. I'm assuming
that the tub can be cut and patched if it's really bad, is that
realistic? Is tub lining and or replacement in my future? As for the
smog equipment, my county in PA started emission testing in 12/03 and
provides for an exemption for vehicles driven under 5000 miles annually,
which works for me.
Thanks for patience with the newbie questions.

Steve

Steve

On 7/24/2004 2:09 PM, Lee Ayrton wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, Steve wrote:
>
>>>> Found one for sale. original owner; 174k miles; 4cyl; 4 spd; some
>>>> body rust; 31" BFG's in decent shape; currently registered but needs
>>>> PA inspection. . $1000.
>>>> Keep the 4cyl? Can it take a 6cyl? This would be my first project
>>>> car. Welcome any comments.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A 6-cylinder? On a CJ?????? Completely unheardof. ;-)
>>
>>
>> How about a Chevy 350? But seriously...
>> I went to look at it and drive it after work. It needs a repair to
>> one wiper blade and a patch in the floor to pass inspection according
>> to the seller. I'll talk to the inspection station on Monday. There
>> are several holes in the floor that need to be patched. the are other
>> rust spots in the body that will need to be taken care of too. The
>> original 5 speed transmission was replaced with a four speed and the
>> clutch and pressure plate replaced at the same time. The engine ran
>> strong. Everything else is original. Soft top only, new doors. It's
>> black and it looks baaaad. I can buy it for a $1000.
>> What do you think?
>
>
> I think that any CJ that's streetable with a little bit of work is worth
> at least $1K. You might want to look into how much smog equipment is
> missing and how much you'll have to replace/restore to register it.
>
> Certainly check the last foot and a half of the frame for rust-through
> -- use something sharp like a long thin screwdriver and a hammer. Also
> pick up on the body by the left and right rear wheel wells to see if the
> tub is still firmly bolted to the frame, there are rust-through issues
> with both the tub and the frame mounting points. Rock the seats
> left/right to see if their mounting points are still solid.
>
> Someone else will have to tell you if the 258/I6 is a straight bolt-up
> replacement for the I4 or not (there are, at least, no sheet metal
> issues with the swap), but the I6 is certainly a hearty engine.

OK, I'll check the frame and tub issues more carefully. I'm assuming
that the tub can be cut and patched if it's really bad, is that
realistic? Is tub lining and or replacement in my future? As for the
smog equipment, my county in PA started emission testing in 12/03 and
provides for an exemption for vehicles driven under 5000 miles annually,
which works for me.
Thanks for patience with the newbie questions.

Steve

Lee Ayrton

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004, Steve wrote:

>>> I went to look at it and drive it after work. It needs a repair to one
>>> wiper blade and a patch in the floor to pass inspection according to the
>>> seller. I'll talk to the inspection station on Monday. There are
>>> several holes in the floor that need to be patched. the are other rust
>>> spots in the body that will need to be taken care of too. The original
[snip]

>> Certainly check the last foot and a half of the frame for rust-through --
>> use something sharp like a long thin screwdriver and a hammer. Also pick
>> up on the body by the left and right rear wheel wells to see if the tub is
>> still firmly bolted to the frame, there are rust-through issues with both
>> the tub and the frame mounting points. Rock the seats left/right to see
>> if their mounting points are still solid.
[snip]

> OK, I'll check the frame and tub issues more carefully. I'm assuming
> that the tub can be cut and patched if it's really bad, is that
> realistic? Is tub lining and or replacement in my future? As for the
> smog equipment, my county in PA started emission testing in 12/03 and
> provides for an exemption for vehicles driven under 5000 miles annually,
> which works for me. Thanks for patience with the newbie questions.

You're in PA, I don't know if you have the same road salt-related rust
issues that I do here in icy Connecticut. I can list the places that
76-83 CJs commonly rust _here_, which might not be true _there_:

Front fenders, the outside skin of the double-walled section between the
wheel well and the cowl. Replacement fenders are a stock item and
bolt-on.

Cowl, outside skin at the inner brace (by the raised "Jeep" stamp).

Windshield frame, lower outside and interior surfaces. Replacement WS
frames are a stock item.

Front foot wells. Repair plates are mailorderable.

Outside skin, below the door opening. Repair parts are mailorderable.

Floor seam, along the riser to the rear deck, in the middle and at both
corners.

Rear deck, above each stiffener cross-piece. Replacement floor is
available.

Rear wheel wells, internal baffle behind the wheel.

Rear skin, left side between the spare tire bracket and the tailgate.
Repair corners are available.

Rear skin, below tailgate. Available.

Body to frame mounting points: below front seats; between frame rails
for'd of the fuel tank; at rear cross member (looks like rear bumper).

If it is just surface rust and not broken through, folks here swear by a
product called POR-15. It is a rust-killer that prevents further damage.


Frame:

Left side inner face, under driver's footwell, behind the mounting plate
for the brake proportioning valve.

Last 18" of frame rails, both sides, beginning at the inner surface of the
box and progressing to the outer section and down to the spring eye.

Rear cross member (looks like rear bumper). Heavy-gauge weld-in
replacement members are available.

All body mount brackets from the cowl back. They started out with a 1
1/2" (or so) hole but become just a sharp-edged "C" shaped opening.

Frame repairs really should be done by someone who has some welding
skills.


Repairing the tub depends on your sheet metal skills, pop rivets can take
you only so far (been there, done that...). Of course, how long you
intend to keep this Jeep is also a factor. Beware diamond-plate dress-up
pieces for rotting rear corners and under the doors -- covering up rust
just keeps you from seeing how bad it is getting. Tub liners only protect
the inner surface of the tub, most of the rust damage is going to come up
from the bottom.

If the mounting points for the tub are rotted it becomes a bigger deal.
These began as captured nuts in a welded channel. Repairing them with the
tub in place could become quite a bit of work.

Replacement tubs in a variety of materials are easy to order and will set
you back roughly $2K-plus, but depending on how much rust you have to
repair and how those repairs get made it might be cheaper to replace
rather than repair. Don't forget to budget for paint. Many folks figure
on spending a couple of weekends replacing a tub but quickly find a bunch
of things to do "while I've got it apart". Some then spend a bunch of
months and come out with a completely rebuilt Jeep, others get half-way
through and then sell it to the kid down the street. Getting the tub off
is relatively simple, but involves some busted knuckles and cursing. If
you eventually choose to do it you should be able to get it off in a day.

You can mailorder pretty much everything you could need to repair, rebuild
or build a Jeep, excluding the odd small part. F'erinstance, you can get
a new heater blower or heater core, but not the heater box. You can get
the 3 heater/vent control cables for the dash, but not the one that links
the heater and the defroster duct. Go to <URL:http://www.4wd.com> and
<URL:http://www.quadratech.com> have them send you a catalogue. Get J.C.
Whitney's too and comparison shop, but with Whitney read carefully and be
sure that they're sending you brand name parts.

Mechanically, you're looking at a 20 year old Jeep, so there are things
that will give out from time to time. Radiators, heater cores, suspension
parts, clutch parts, electrical parts and the fuel tank are all
replaceable and will eventually need replacement. Again, cursing and
busted knuckles are involved, but it is nothing like trying to work on a
new car.


I realize that I've dumped a bunch of stuff on you here-- don't be
discouraged, I'm not saying that you'll end up taking this road, I'm just
showing you the map on where it _might_ lead you. The Jeep you are
looking at might be a cream puff that just needs a bit of cosmetic work.
If you've got questions, post `em here. There's plenty of folks here that
know Jeeps and like to help fellow Jeepers. We were all new to Jeeps
once.

Good luck!

Lee Ayrton

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004, Steve wrote:

>>> I went to look at it and drive it after work. It needs a repair to one
>>> wiper blade and a patch in the floor to pass inspection according to the
>>> seller. I'll talk to the inspection station on Monday. There are
>>> several holes in the floor that need to be patched. the are other rust
>>> spots in the body that will need to be taken care of too. The original
[snip]

>> Certainly check the last foot and a half of the frame for rust-through --
>> use something sharp like a long thin screwdriver and a hammer. Also pick
>> up on the body by the left and right rear wheel wells to see if the tub is
>> still firmly bolted to the frame, there are rust-through issues with both
>> the tub and the frame mounting points. Rock the seats left/right to see
>> if their mounting points are still solid.
[snip]

> OK, I'll check the frame and tub issues more carefully. I'm assuming
> that the tub can be cut and patched if it's really bad, is that
> realistic? Is tub lining and or replacement in my future? As for the
> smog equipment, my county in PA started emission testing in 12/03 and
> provides for an exemption for vehicles driven under 5000 miles annually,
> which works for me. Thanks for patience with the newbie questions.

You're in PA, I don't know if you have the same road salt-related rust
issues that I do here in icy Connecticut. I can list the places that
76-83 CJs commonly rust _here_, which might not be true _there_:

Front fenders, the outside skin of the double-walled section between the
wheel well and the cowl. Replacement fenders are a stock item and
bolt-on.

Cowl, outside skin at the inner brace (by the raised "Jeep" stamp).

Windshield frame, lower outside and interior surfaces. Replacement WS
frames are a stock item.

Front foot wells. Repair plates are mailorderable.

Outside skin, below the door opening. Repair parts are mailorderable.

Floor seam, along the riser to the rear deck, in the middle and at both
corners.

Rear deck, above each stiffener cross-piece. Replacement floor is
available.

Rear wheel wells, internal baffle behind the wheel.

Rear skin, left side between the spare tire bracket and the tailgate.
Repair corners are available.

Rear skin, below tailgate. Available.

Body to frame mounting points: below front seats; between frame rails
for'd of the fuel tank; at rear cross member (looks like rear bumper).

If it is just surface rust and not broken through, folks here swear by a
product called POR-15. It is a rust-killer that prevents further damage.


Frame:

Left side inner face, under driver's footwell, behind the mounting plate
for the brake proportioning valve.

Last 18" of frame rails, both sides, beginning at the inner surface of the
box and progressing to the outer section and down to the spring eye.

Rear cross member (looks like rear bumper). Heavy-gauge weld-in
replacement members are available.

All body mount brackets from the cowl back. They started out with a 1
1/2" (or so) hole but become just a sharp-edged "C" shaped opening.

Frame repairs really should be done by someone who has some welding
skills.


Repairing the tub depends on your sheet metal skills, pop rivets can take
you only so far (been there, done that...). Of course, how long you
intend to keep this Jeep is also a factor. Beware diamond-plate dress-up
pieces for rotting rear corners and under the doors -- covering up rust
just keeps you from seeing how bad it is getting. Tub liners only protect
the inner surface of the tub, most of the rust damage is going to come up
from the bottom.

If the mounting points for the tub are rotted it becomes a bigger deal.
These began as captured nuts in a welded channel. Repairing them with the
tub in place could become quite a bit of work.

Replacement tubs in a variety of materials are easy to order and will set
you back roughly $2K-plus, but depending on how much rust you have to
repair and how those repairs get made it might be cheaper to replace
rather than repair. Don't forget to budget for paint. Many folks figure
on spending a couple of weekends replacing a tub but quickly find a bunch
of things to do "while I've got it apart". Some then spend a bunch of
months and come out with a completely rebuilt Jeep, others get half-way
through and then sell it to the kid down the street. Getting the tub off
is relatively simple, but involves some busted knuckles and cursing. If
you eventually choose to do it you should be able to get it off in a day.

You can mailorder pretty much everything you could need to repair, rebuild
or build a Jeep, excluding the odd small part. F'erinstance, you can get
a new heater blower or heater core, but not the heater box. You can get
the 3 heater/vent control cables for the dash, but not the one that links
the heater and the defroster duct. Go to <URL:http://www.4wd.com> and
<URL:http://www.quadratech.com> have them send you a catalogue. Get J.C.
Whitney's too and comparison shop, but with Whitney read carefully and be
sure that they're sending you brand name parts.

Mechanically, you're looking at a 20 year old Jeep, so there are things
that will give out from time to time. Radiators, heater cores, suspension
parts, clutch parts, electrical parts and the fuel tank are all
replaceable and will eventually need replacement. Again, cursing and
busted knuckles are involved, but it is nothing like trying to work on a
new car.


I realize that I've dumped a bunch of stuff on you here-- don't be
discouraged, I'm not saying that you'll end up taking this road, I'm just
showing you the map on where it _might_ lead you. The Jeep you are
looking at might be a cream puff that just needs a bit of cosmetic work.
If you've got questions, post `em here. There's plenty of folks here that
know Jeeps and like to help fellow Jeepers. We were all new to Jeeps
once.

Good luck!

Lee Ayrton

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004, Steve wrote:

>>> I went to look at it and drive it after work. It needs a repair to one
>>> wiper blade and a patch in the floor to pass inspection according to the
>>> seller. I'll talk to the inspection station on Monday. There are
>>> several holes in the floor that need to be patched. the are other rust
>>> spots in the body that will need to be taken care of too. The original
[snip]

>> Certainly check the last foot and a half of the frame for rust-through --
>> use something sharp like a long thin screwdriver and a hammer. Also pick
>> up on the body by the left and right rear wheel wells to see if the tub is
>> still firmly bolted to the frame, there are rust-through issues with both
>> the tub and the frame mounting points. Rock the seats left/right to see
>> if their mounting points are still solid.
[snip]

> OK, I'll check the frame and tub issues more carefully. I'm assuming
> that the tub can be cut and patched if it's really bad, is that
> realistic? Is tub lining and or replacement in my future? As for the
> smog equipment, my county in PA started emission testing in 12/03 and
> provides for an exemption for vehicles driven under 5000 miles annually,
> which works for me. Thanks for patience with the newbie questions.

You're in PA, I don't know if you have the same road salt-related rust
issues that I do here in icy Connecticut. I can list the places that
76-83 CJs commonly rust _here_, which might not be true _there_:

Front fenders, the outside skin of the double-walled section between the
wheel well and the cowl. Replacement fenders are a stock item and
bolt-on.

Cowl, outside skin at the inner brace (by the raised "Jeep" stamp).

Windshield frame, lower outside and interior surfaces. Replacement WS
frames are a stock item.

Front foot wells. Repair plates are mailorderable.

Outside skin, below the door opening. Repair parts are mailorderable.

Floor seam, along the riser to the rear deck, in the middle and at both
corners.

Rear deck, above each stiffener cross-piece. Replacement floor is
available.

Rear wheel wells, internal baffle behind the wheel.

Rear skin, left side between the spare tire bracket and the tailgate.
Repair corners are available.

Rear skin, below tailgate. Available.

Body to frame mounting points: below front seats; between frame rails
for'd of the fuel tank; at rear cross member (looks like rear bumper).

If it is just surface rust and not broken through, folks here swear by a
product called POR-15. It is a rust-killer that prevents further damage.


Frame:

Left side inner face, under driver's footwell, behind the mounting plate
for the brake proportioning valve.

Last 18" of frame rails, both sides, beginning at the inner surface of the
box and progressing to the outer section and down to the spring eye.

Rear cross member (looks like rear bumper). Heavy-gauge weld-in
replacement members are available.

All body mount brackets from the cowl back. They started out with a 1
1/2" (or so) hole but become just a sharp-edged "C" shaped opening.

Frame repairs really should be done by someone who has some welding
skills.


Repairing the tub depends on your sheet metal skills, pop rivets can take
you only so far (been there, done that...). Of course, how long you
intend to keep this Jeep is also a factor. Beware diamond-plate dress-up
pieces for rotting rear corners and under the doors -- covering up rust
just keeps you from seeing how bad it is getting. Tub liners only protect
the inner surface of the tub, most of the rust damage is going to come up
from the bottom.

If the mounting points for the tub are rotted it becomes a bigger deal.
These began as captured nuts in a welded channel. Repairing them with the
tub in place could become quite a bit of work.

Replacement tubs in a variety of materials are easy to order and will set
you back roughly $2K-plus, but depending on how much rust you have to
repair and how those repairs get made it might be cheaper to replace
rather than repair. Don't forget to budget for paint. Many folks figure
on spending a couple of weekends replacing a tub but quickly find a bunch
of things to do "while I've got it apart". Some then spend a bunch of
months and come out with a completely rebuilt Jeep, others get half-way
through and then sell it to the kid down the street. Getting the tub off
is relatively simple, but involves some busted knuckles and cursing. If
you eventually choose to do it you should be able to get it off in a day.

You can mailorder pretty much everything you could need to repair, rebuild
or build a Jeep, excluding the odd small part. F'erinstance, you can get
a new heater blower or heater core, but not the heater box. You can get
the 3 heater/vent control cables for the dash, but not the one that links
the heater and the defroster duct. Go to <URL:http://www.4wd.com> and
<URL:http://www.quadratech.com> have them send you a catalogue. Get J.C.
Whitney's too and comparison shop, but with Whitney read carefully and be
sure that they're sending you brand name parts.

Mechanically, you're looking at a 20 year old Jeep, so there are things
that will give out from time to time. Radiators, heater cores, suspension
parts, clutch parts, electrical parts and the fuel tank are all
replaceable and will eventually need replacement. Again, cursing and
busted knuckles are involved, but it is nothing like trying to work on a
new car.


I realize that I've dumped a bunch of stuff on you here-- don't be
discouraged, I'm not saying that you'll end up taking this road, I'm just
showing you the map on where it _might_ lead you. The Jeep you are
looking at might be a cream puff that just needs a bit of cosmetic work.
If you've got questions, post `em here. There's plenty of folks here that
know Jeeps and like to help fellow Jeepers. We were all new to Jeeps
once.

Good luck!