Eric

I sat here nodding my head in agreement with everything you said with my
recent road trips fresh in my mind (I have a 99 TJ SE). I'd add a couple of
things:

1. Regearing, from what I've been told, does nothing more than raise your
RPMs. Same thing as driving in 4th at 4000 RPMs, but instead you're in 5th.
(Correct me if I'm wrong...) I was looking at this as an option since I'm
looking at upgrading my 31s (POS', I'll tell ya) to 32s.

2. Upgrades to the motor CAN make a difference. I'd say one of the biggest
was swapping out the throttle body from a 4.0L. I've heard arguments
for/against the K&N applications. I have an AirAid intake, and with my new
TB, I think it makes a difference at highway speeds. Like you said, the
only time most of the mods make any difference is at higher RPMs. I don't
know about your SE, but at highway speeds I'm turning some high RPMs. On my
trip I rarely had to downshift to 4th despite many inclines (no, not
mountains) and maintained an actual (as opposed to indicated) speed of 75
mph. That was with the back seat out and the "cargo" area PACKED with
luggage. And remember, I have 31s...

3. A/C is great! But it KILLS the 4 cyl. I had it installed and it robbed
enough power that I had to toggle it on/off when on inclines to maintain
speed.

Just my 2 cents (or 3...). I'd definitely agree with your statement to get
the 6 cyl. Although, I wonder, how much money could I afford to spend on
something I'm just going to beat to death on the trail?? My next TJ will be
a Rubicon. No doubt. Loads of goodies. BUT, it'll be 5 years old or so
and driven by some yuppie who never took it off the pavement. ;-) New cars
just cost too much.

Eric
99 TJ SE

"GzrGlide" <GzrGlide02@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:7J3kb.77$0M6.318@news1.mts.net...
> Well since this seems to come up a number of times a year, I figured I'd
> post this so if anyone does a Google search, at least they'll get it
> fairly quickly.
>
> 4 Banger vs 6 Cylinder Jeeps
>
> If you’re reading this you’re probably wondering whether you should buy
> a 4 cyl (2.5) or 6 cyl (4.0) Jeep. I hope this helps. As you’re reading
> this keep in mind it’s written based on my experiences with my wifes ’98
> TJ SE. This Jeep is used as her daily driver to go to and from work, go
> shopping, cart kids around and we also use it as our primary 4-wheeled
> transportation. We take it on holidays, to the lake etc etc. To date it
> has over 111,000 miles on the odometer, and we’ve had it since September
> 1997. The only real change we’ve made is that we replaced the stock 27
> inch Goodyears with 30x9.5 BFG ATs.
>
> Why did we buy a 4 banger TJ? Because I’m a cheap bastard! Here in
> Canada, when I bought her the Jeep in ’98, the Sport package was an
> extra 5 grand. Besides I figured the Jeep with a 4 banger would get
> better gas mileage. She only had a passing interest in off-roading at
> the time so the 4 banger was good enough. Or so I thought.
>
> Enough background info. On to the facts.
>
> The first thing I noticed was that the 4 banger is severely underpowered
> for hwy driving. If you want to pass anyone, take a lunch or be prepared
> to drop it into a lower gear and rev the hell out of the motor (4th
> gear, 4000 rpm usually does it). The problem is even worse if you’re
> pulling a trailer. We have a utility trailer with a 4x8 foot box on it
> and when the trailer is hooked up, we don’t even try to pass anyone.
> There usually isn’t enough room.
>
> So what was the first thing any guy thinks when there’s a power problem?
> “Well we’ll just soup up the motor!” I have done a huge amount of
> research and even tried a few things to get more power from the 4 angry
> squirrels. In the end it comes back to: “There’s no replacement for
> displacement!” Don’t even think about boosting the horsepower with
> things like K&N filters, computer chips, throttle body spacers, headers,
> exhaust, electric fans, ancient tribal dances, chinese incantations etc.
> Some of these mods are either snake-oil, or they’re designed to work at
> the higher end of the RPM scale, which very few Jeeps ever see in any
> situation. By the time you pay for all that, you might as well drop in a
> bigger motor, or buy a Jeep with the 6 cyl in the first place.
>
> The 4cyl has some other issues as well (this is all from 6 yrs
> experience). Some of these may or may not be an issue with you, but they
> warrant mentioning.
> The only tranny to get is the 5spd (don't bother with the auto). No
> problem right! Except if you want to pull any kind of trailer, it's too
> weak to handle 5th gear when the trailer is loaded up. You end up in 4th
> turning 3000 rpm at 60 mph. Really bad gas mileage!
>
> Lack of aftermarket parts for the motor. The aftermarket mfgs cater more
> to the 4.0L guys. However some of the technology used in the ricer world
> may be applicable to the 2.5 Jeep motor, but again that may only apply
> to the higher end of the RPM scale.
>
> You would think that the 4cyl would get better gas mileage (such that it
> is with a Jeep), but after talking to 6cyl owners, the difference isn't
> worth mentioning.
>
> The SE package only comes with the Dana D35c axle ( the other Jeep
> packages either give you a D44 option or come std with the D44) which
> when combined with larger tires and a locker have a reputation for
> breaking at the most awkward times. Getting a Sport or higher package
> gives you the option to have the better D44 axle.
>
> If you plan on putting bigger tires on the jeep, the 4cyl lack of power
> will be exaggerated! We went from the stock 27 inch Goodyears to 30 inch
> BFG ATs in 2001 and there was a definite drop in hwy performance when
> you hit ANY kind of incline, or trying to pass someone. Although this
> would be true with any motor, the 4 bangers already poor performance is
> made worse. The remedy? When you’ve settled on a tire size (30s, 31’s,
> 33’s or whatever) you’re going to have to re-gear your diffs to get the
> performance back again.
>
> Having said all that, the 4 banger is a good motor. The gearing is
> around 4.10:1 and believe me that is plenty good enough for around town
> and on the trails. I’ve test driven a brand new Sport and although they
> do have a lot more horsepower, because they’re geared at around 3.73:1
> (or higher, depending on package) you don’t really feel a difference.
> You will however notice that they pass faster at highway speeds, they
> will maintain their speed better on inclines and will pull a trailer
> easier than a 4 banger.
>
> As far as maintenance is concerned; don't worry about it. Our TJ has
> 185,000 km (111,000 miles) on it and it's been really good to us. I've
> replaced the rad, replaced the pinion seal in the front diff twice, and
> had to get the starter repaired and then replaced. Total cost to date
> Cdn $1100. That’s 0.006 cents per km (0.007 cents/mile) for maint $
> (doesn't include fluid changes and regular preventative mtce). Take care
> of it and it'll take care of you!
>
> I know this write-up makes it sound like the 4banger is biggest piece of
> junk out there. It’s not! For a lot of people it will do what they want
> it do very well. For those of us that want to push the Jeep as far as we
> can, the 4 banger leaves a little to be desired at times.
>
> My recommendation to people on what they should look for in a Jeep is to
> get the 6 cyl in whatever model they can afford (Wrangler X, SPORT,
> SAHARA or the RUBICON), preferably with the D44.
>
> Get the 6cyl, D44, your transmission of choice and drive the wheels off
> the Jeep.
>
>
> Mike
> 98 TJ SE (wifes)
> 02 FLHTCi (mine)
>

Eric

I sat here nodding my head in agreement with everything you said with my
recent road trips fresh in my mind (I have a 99 TJ SE). I'd add a couple of
things:

1. Regearing, from what I've been told, does nothing more than raise your
RPMs. Same thing as driving in 4th at 4000 RPMs, but instead you're in 5th.
(Correct me if I'm wrong...) I was looking at this as an option since I'm
looking at upgrading my 31s (POS', I'll tell ya) to 32s.

2. Upgrades to the motor CAN make a difference. I'd say one of the biggest
was swapping out the throttle body from a 4.0L. I've heard arguments
for/against the K&N applications. I have an AirAid intake, and with my new
TB, I think it makes a difference at highway speeds. Like you said, the
only time most of the mods make any difference is at higher RPMs. I don't
know about your SE, but at highway speeds I'm turning some high RPMs. On my
trip I rarely had to downshift to 4th despite many inclines (no, not
mountains) and maintained an actual (as opposed to indicated) speed of 75
mph. That was with the back seat out and the "cargo" area PACKED with
luggage. And remember, I have 31s...

3. A/C is great! But it KILLS the 4 cyl. I had it installed and it robbed
enough power that I had to toggle it on/off when on inclines to maintain
speed.

Just my 2 cents (or 3...). I'd definitely agree with your statement to get
the 6 cyl. Although, I wonder, how much money could I afford to spend on
something I'm just going to beat to death on the trail?? My next TJ will be
a Rubicon. No doubt. Loads of goodies. BUT, it'll be 5 years old or so
and driven by some yuppie who never took it off the pavement. ;-) New cars
just cost too much.

Eric
99 TJ SE

"GzrGlide" <GzrGlide02@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:7J3kb.77$0M6.318@news1.mts.net...
> Well since this seems to come up a number of times a year, I figured I'd
> post this so if anyone does a Google search, at least they'll get it
> fairly quickly.
>
> 4 Banger vs 6 Cylinder Jeeps
>
> If you’re reading this you’re probably wondering whether you should buy
> a 4 cyl (2.5) or 6 cyl (4.0) Jeep. I hope this helps. As you’re reading
> this keep in mind it’s written based on my experiences with my wifes ’98
> TJ SE. This Jeep is used as her daily driver to go to and from work, go
> shopping, cart kids around and we also use it as our primary 4-wheeled
> transportation. We take it on holidays, to the lake etc etc. To date it
> has over 111,000 miles on the odometer, and we’ve had it since September
> 1997. The only real change we’ve made is that we replaced the stock 27
> inch Goodyears with 30x9.5 BFG ATs.
>
> Why did we buy a 4 banger TJ? Because I’m a cheap bastard! Here in
> Canada, when I bought her the Jeep in ’98, the Sport package was an
> extra 5 grand. Besides I figured the Jeep with a 4 banger would get
> better gas mileage. She only had a passing interest in off-roading at
> the time so the 4 banger was good enough. Or so I thought.
>
> Enough background info. On to the facts.
>
> The first thing I noticed was that the 4 banger is severely underpowered
> for hwy driving. If you want to pass anyone, take a lunch or be prepared
> to drop it into a lower gear and rev the hell out of the motor (4th
> gear, 4000 rpm usually does it). The problem is even worse if you’re
> pulling a trailer. We have a utility trailer with a 4x8 foot box on it
> and when the trailer is hooked up, we don’t even try to pass anyone.
> There usually isn’t enough room.
>
> So what was the first thing any guy thinks when there’s a power problem?
> “Well we’ll just soup up the motor!” I have done a huge amount of
> research and even tried a few things to get more power from the 4 angry
> squirrels. In the end it comes back to: “There’s no replacement for
> displacement!” Don’t even think about boosting the horsepower with
> things like K&N filters, computer chips, throttle body spacers, headers,
> exhaust, electric fans, ancient tribal dances, chinese incantations etc.
> Some of these mods are either snake-oil, or they’re designed to work at
> the higher end of the RPM scale, which very few Jeeps ever see in any
> situation. By the time you pay for all that, you might as well drop in a
> bigger motor, or buy a Jeep with the 6 cyl in the first place.
>
> The 4cyl has some other issues as well (this is all from 6 yrs
> experience). Some of these may or may not be an issue with you, but they
> warrant mentioning.
> The only tranny to get is the 5spd (don't bother with the auto). No
> problem right! Except if you want to pull any kind of trailer, it's too
> weak to handle 5th gear when the trailer is loaded up. You end up in 4th
> turning 3000 rpm at 60 mph. Really bad gas mileage!
>
> Lack of aftermarket parts for the motor. The aftermarket mfgs cater more
> to the 4.0L guys. However some of the technology used in the ricer world
> may be applicable to the 2.5 Jeep motor, but again that may only apply
> to the higher end of the RPM scale.
>
> You would think that the 4cyl would get better gas mileage (such that it
> is with a Jeep), but after talking to 6cyl owners, the difference isn't
> worth mentioning.
>
> The SE package only comes with the Dana D35c axle ( the other Jeep
> packages either give you a D44 option or come std with the D44) which
> when combined with larger tires and a locker have a reputation for
> breaking at the most awkward times. Getting a Sport or higher package
> gives you the option to have the better D44 axle.
>
> If you plan on putting bigger tires on the jeep, the 4cyl lack of power
> will be exaggerated! We went from the stock 27 inch Goodyears to 30 inch
> BFG ATs in 2001 and there was a definite drop in hwy performance when
> you hit ANY kind of incline, or trying to pass someone. Although this
> would be true with any motor, the 4 bangers already poor performance is
> made worse. The remedy? When you’ve settled on a tire size (30s, 31’s,
> 33’s or whatever) you’re going to have to re-gear your diffs to get the
> performance back again.
>
> Having said all that, the 4 banger is a good motor. The gearing is
> around 4.10:1 and believe me that is plenty good enough for around town
> and on the trails. I’ve test driven a brand new Sport and although they
> do have a lot more horsepower, because they’re geared at around 3.73:1
> (or higher, depending on package) you don’t really feel a difference.
> You will however notice that they pass faster at highway speeds, they
> will maintain their speed better on inclines and will pull a trailer
> easier than a 4 banger.
>
> As far as maintenance is concerned; don't worry about it. Our TJ has
> 185,000 km (111,000 miles) on it and it's been really good to us. I've
> replaced the rad, replaced the pinion seal in the front diff twice, and
> had to get the starter repaired and then replaced. Total cost to date
> Cdn $1100. That’s 0.006 cents per km (0.007 cents/mile) for maint $
> (doesn't include fluid changes and regular preventative mtce). Take care
> of it and it'll take care of you!
>
> I know this write-up makes it sound like the 4banger is biggest piece of
> junk out there. It’s not! For a lot of people it will do what they want
> it do very well. For those of us that want to push the Jeep as far as we
> can, the 4 banger leaves a little to be desired at times.
>
> My recommendation to people on what they should look for in a Jeep is to
> get the 6 cyl in whatever model they can afford (Wrangler X, SPORT,
> SAHARA or the RUBICON), preferably with the D44.
>
> Get the 6cyl, D44, your transmission of choice and drive the wheels off
> the Jeep.
>
>
> Mike
> 98 TJ SE (wifes)
> 02 FLHTCi (mine)
>

Eric

I sat here nodding my head in agreement with everything you said with my
recent road trips fresh in my mind (I have a 99 TJ SE). I'd add a couple of
things:

1. Regearing, from what I've been told, does nothing more than raise your
RPMs. Same thing as driving in 4th at 4000 RPMs, but instead you're in 5th.
(Correct me if I'm wrong...) I was looking at this as an option since I'm
looking at upgrading my 31s (POS', I'll tell ya) to 32s.

2. Upgrades to the motor CAN make a difference. I'd say one of the biggest
was swapping out the throttle body from a 4.0L. I've heard arguments
for/against the K&N applications. I have an AirAid intake, and with my new
TB, I think it makes a difference at highway speeds. Like you said, the
only time most of the mods make any difference is at higher RPMs. I don't
know about your SE, but at highway speeds I'm turning some high RPMs. On my
trip I rarely had to downshift to 4th despite many inclines (no, not
mountains) and maintained an actual (as opposed to indicated) speed of 75
mph. That was with the back seat out and the "cargo" area PACKED with
luggage. And remember, I have 31s...

3. A/C is great! But it KILLS the 4 cyl. I had it installed and it robbed
enough power that I had to toggle it on/off when on inclines to maintain
speed.

Just my 2 cents (or 3...). I'd definitely agree with your statement to get
the 6 cyl. Although, I wonder, how much money could I afford to spend on
something I'm just going to beat to death on the trail?? My next TJ will be
a Rubicon. No doubt. Loads of goodies. BUT, it'll be 5 years old or so
and driven by some yuppie who never took it off the pavement. ;-) New cars
just cost too much.

Eric
99 TJ SE

"GzrGlide" <GzrGlide02@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:7J3kb.77$0M6.318@news1.mts.net...
> Well since this seems to come up a number of times a year, I figured I'd
> post this so if anyone does a Google search, at least they'll get it
> fairly quickly.
>
> 4 Banger vs 6 Cylinder Jeeps
>
> If you’re reading this you’re probably wondering whether you should buy
> a 4 cyl (2.5) or 6 cyl (4.0) Jeep. I hope this helps. As you’re reading
> this keep in mind it’s written based on my experiences with my wifes ’98
> TJ SE. This Jeep is used as her daily driver to go to and from work, go
> shopping, cart kids around and we also use it as our primary 4-wheeled
> transportation. We take it on holidays, to the lake etc etc. To date it
> has over 111,000 miles on the odometer, and we’ve had it since September
> 1997. The only real change we’ve made is that we replaced the stock 27
> inch Goodyears with 30x9.5 BFG ATs.
>
> Why did we buy a 4 banger TJ? Because I’m a cheap bastard! Here in
> Canada, when I bought her the Jeep in ’98, the Sport package was an
> extra 5 grand. Besides I figured the Jeep with a 4 banger would get
> better gas mileage. She only had a passing interest in off-roading at
> the time so the 4 banger was good enough. Or so I thought.
>
> Enough background info. On to the facts.
>
> The first thing I noticed was that the 4 banger is severely underpowered
> for hwy driving. If you want to pass anyone, take a lunch or be prepared
> to drop it into a lower gear and rev the hell out of the motor (4th
> gear, 4000 rpm usually does it). The problem is even worse if you’re
> pulling a trailer. We have a utility trailer with a 4x8 foot box on it
> and when the trailer is hooked up, we don’t even try to pass anyone.
> There usually isn’t enough room.
>
> So what was the first thing any guy thinks when there’s a power problem?
> “Well we’ll just soup up the motor!” I have done a huge amount of
> research and even tried a few things to get more power from the 4 angry
> squirrels. In the end it comes back to: “There’s no replacement for
> displacement!” Don’t even think about boosting the horsepower with
> things like K&N filters, computer chips, throttle body spacers, headers,
> exhaust, electric fans, ancient tribal dances, chinese incantations etc.
> Some of these mods are either snake-oil, or they’re designed to work at
> the higher end of the RPM scale, which very few Jeeps ever see in any
> situation. By the time you pay for all that, you might as well drop in a
> bigger motor, or buy a Jeep with the 6 cyl in the first place.
>
> The 4cyl has some other issues as well (this is all from 6 yrs
> experience). Some of these may or may not be an issue with you, but they
> warrant mentioning.
> The only tranny to get is the 5spd (don't bother with the auto). No
> problem right! Except if you want to pull any kind of trailer, it's too
> weak to handle 5th gear when the trailer is loaded up. You end up in 4th
> turning 3000 rpm at 60 mph. Really bad gas mileage!
>
> Lack of aftermarket parts for the motor. The aftermarket mfgs cater more
> to the 4.0L guys. However some of the technology used in the ricer world
> may be applicable to the 2.5 Jeep motor, but again that may only apply
> to the higher end of the RPM scale.
>
> You would think that the 4cyl would get better gas mileage (such that it
> is with a Jeep), but after talking to 6cyl owners, the difference isn't
> worth mentioning.
>
> The SE package only comes with the Dana D35c axle ( the other Jeep
> packages either give you a D44 option or come std with the D44) which
> when combined with larger tires and a locker have a reputation for
> breaking at the most awkward times. Getting a Sport or higher package
> gives you the option to have the better D44 axle.
>
> If you plan on putting bigger tires on the jeep, the 4cyl lack of power
> will be exaggerated! We went from the stock 27 inch Goodyears to 30 inch
> BFG ATs in 2001 and there was a definite drop in hwy performance when
> you hit ANY kind of incline, or trying to pass someone. Although this
> would be true with any motor, the 4 bangers already poor performance is
> made worse. The remedy? When you’ve settled on a tire size (30s, 31’s,
> 33’s or whatever) you’re going to have to re-gear your diffs to get the
> performance back again.
>
> Having said all that, the 4 banger is a good motor. The gearing is
> around 4.10:1 and believe me that is plenty good enough for around town
> and on the trails. I’ve test driven a brand new Sport and although they
> do have a lot more horsepower, because they’re geared at around 3.73:1
> (or higher, depending on package) you don’t really feel a difference.
> You will however notice that they pass faster at highway speeds, they
> will maintain their speed better on inclines and will pull a trailer
> easier than a 4 banger.
>
> As far as maintenance is concerned; don't worry about it. Our TJ has
> 185,000 km (111,000 miles) on it and it's been really good to us. I've
> replaced the rad, replaced the pinion seal in the front diff twice, and
> had to get the starter repaired and then replaced. Total cost to date
> Cdn $1100. That’s 0.006 cents per km (0.007 cents/mile) for maint $
> (doesn't include fluid changes and regular preventative mtce). Take care
> of it and it'll take care of you!
>
> I know this write-up makes it sound like the 4banger is biggest piece of
> junk out there. It’s not! For a lot of people it will do what they want
> it do very well. For those of us that want to push the Jeep as far as we
> can, the 4 banger leaves a little to be desired at times.
>
> My recommendation to people on what they should look for in a Jeep is to
> get the 6 cyl in whatever model they can afford (Wrangler X, SPORT,
> SAHARA or the RUBICON), preferably with the D44.
>
> Get the 6cyl, D44, your transmission of choice and drive the wheels off
> the Jeep.
>
>
> Mike
> 98 TJ SE (wifes)
> 02 FLHTCi (mine)
>

GzrGlide

Eric wrote:

>I sat here nodding my head in agreement with everything you said with my
>recent road trips fresh in my mind (I have a 99 TJ SE). I'd add a couple of
>things:
>
>1. Regearing, from what I've been told, does nothing more than raise your
>RPMs. Same thing as driving in 4th at 4000 RPMs, but instead you're in 5th.
>(Correct me if I'm wrong...) I was looking at this as an option since I'm
>looking at upgrading my 31s (POS', I'll tell ya) to 32s.
>
It doesn't do anything for actual HP or torque numbers but will help
bring the final drive ratio closer to the stock level.
If you go with bigger tires, you essentially raise the final drive
ratio. You're making the diff think it's geared higher than it actually
is. By re-gearing to a lower ratio (numerically higher...... 4.56 is
lower than 4.10) you're bringing the final drive ratio back closer to
where it was with the origial smaller tires. For example: Our SE
originally came with 27 inch tires and 4.10 gears. When we go to 33 inch
tires we'll lose alot of the performance in the upper end because the
larger tires effectively raised the final drive ratio. If we were to
re-gear to say 4.88 :1 in the diffs, we're reducingthe larger tire sizes
impact on the final drive ratio.
If you're familiar with dyno charts, pictiure this. At the stock gearing
and tire size, the peak of the curve is farther to the left side of the
chart. If you change to a larger tire size without re-gearing, you're
essentially moving the curves to the right. Once you re-gear to a lower
ratio, you've now moved the curves back towards the left. With any luck,
you'll have moved them back to where the were originally with the stock
tires & gears. Go to www.4lo.com to play around with his kind of stuff.

>2. Upgrades to the motor CAN make a difference. I'd say one of the biggest
>was swapping out the throttle body from a 4.0L. I've heard arguments
>for/against the K&N applications. I have an AirAid intake, and with my new
>TB, I think it makes a difference at highway speeds. Like you said, the
>only time most of the mods make any difference is at higher RPMs. I don't
>know about your SE, but at highway speeds I'm turning some high RPMs. On my
>trip I rarely had to downshift to 4th despite many inclines (no, not
>mountains) and maintained an actual (as opposed to indicated) speed of 75
>mph. That was with the back seat out and the "cargo" area PACKED with
>luggage. And remember, I have 31s...
>
You're right about the TB swap. I didn't specifically address it because
I haven't done that yet. But everything I've heard says that for a 4
banger TJ, it's the best performance mod you can do.

>
>3. A/C is great! But it KILLS the 4 cyl. I had it installed and it robbed
>enough power that I had to toggle it on/off when on inclines to maintain
>speed.
>
Never even thought about A/C and a 4-banger!

>Just my 2 cents (or 3...). I'd definitely agree with your statement to get
>the 6 cyl. Although, I wonder, how much money could I afford to spend on
>something I'm just going to beat to death on the trail?? My next TJ will be
>a Rubicon. No doubt. Loads of goodies. BUT, it'll be 5 years old or so
>and driven by some yuppie who never took it off the pavement. ;-) New cars
>just cost too much.
>
I totally agree with you about the Rubi. But when it comes to spending
the money on the TJ........isn't that what jeepin is about? Building
your rig to the be the best that it can be? The 5 grand I saved by not
getting the 4.0, will easily be eaten p by the axle and drivetrain
updates I'll be doing. But then I can say that I built it myself! And
I'll know every inch and nut and bolt of the jeep and why it behave the
way it does. I have alot more respect for people that buid their own
rigs (cars, trucks, boats Harleys etc) than people that go out, drop 30
grand and say "Look what I got", and never use it to it's full potential.

>Eric
>99 TJ SE
>

Happy trails bud.
Mike
98 TJ SE

>
>"GzrGlide" <GzrGlide02@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
>news:7J3kb.77$0M6.318@news1.mts.net...
>
>
>>Well since this seems to come up a number of times a year, I figured I'd
>>post this so if anyone does a Google search, at least they'll get it
>>fairly quickly.
>>
>>4 Banger vs 6 Cylinder Jeeps
>>
>>If you're reading this you're probably wondering whether you should buy
>>a 4 cyl (2.5) or 6 cyl (4.0) Jeep. I hope this helps. As you're reading
>>this keep in mind it's written based on my experiences with my wifes '98
>>TJ SE. This Jeep is used as her daily driver to go to and from work, go
>>shopping, cart kids around and we also use it as our primary 4-wheeled
>>transportation. We take it on holidays, to the lake etc etc. To date it
>>has over 111,000 miles on the odometer, and we've had it since September
>>1997. The only real change we've made is that we replaced the stock 27
>>inch Goodyears with 30x9.5 BFG ATs.
>>
>>Why did we buy a 4 banger TJ? Because I'm a cheap bastard! Here in
>>Canada, when I bought her the Jeep in '98, the Sport package was an
>>extra 5 grand. Besides I figured the Jeep with a 4 banger would get
>>better gas mileage. She only had a passing interest in off-roading at
>>the time so the 4 banger was good enough. Or so I thought.
>>
>>Enough background info. On to the facts.
>>
>>The first thing I noticed was that the 4 banger is severely underpowered
>>for hwy driving. If you want to pass anyone, take a lunch or be prepared
>>to drop it into a lower gear and rev the hell out of the motor (4th
>>gear, 4000 rpm usually does it). The problem is even worse if you're
>>pulling a trailer. We have a utility trailer with a 4x8 foot box on it
>>and when the trailer is hooked up, we don't even try to pass anyone.
>>There usually isn't enough room.
>>
>>So what was the first thing any guy thinks when there's a power problem?
>>"Well we'll just soup up the motor!" I have done a huge amount of
>>research and even tried a few things to get more power from the 4 angry
>>squirrels. In the end it comes back to: "There's no replacement for
>>displacement!" Don't even think about boosting the horsepower with
>>things like K&N filters, computer chips, throttle body spacers, headers,
>>exhaust, electric fans, ancient tribal dances, chinese incantations etc.
>>Some of these mods are either snake-oil, or they're designed to work at
>>the higher end of the RPM scale, which very few Jeeps ever see in any
>>situation. By the time you pay for all that, you might as well drop in a
>>bigger motor, or buy a Jeep with the 6 cyl in the first place.
>>
>>The 4cyl has some other issues as well (this is all from 6 yrs
>>experience). Some of these may or may not be an issue with you, but they
>>warrant mentioning.
>>The only tranny to get is the 5spd (don't bother with the auto). No
>>problem right! Except if you want to pull any kind of trailer, it's too
>>weak to handle 5th gear when the trailer is loaded up. You end up in 4th
>>turning 3000 rpm at 60 mph. Really bad gas mileage!
>>
>>Lack of aftermarket parts for the motor. The aftermarket mfgs cater more
>>to the 4.0L guys. However some of the technology used in the ricer world
>>may be applicable to the 2.5 Jeep motor, but again that may only apply
>>to the higher end of the RPM scale.
>>
>>You would think that the 4cyl would get better gas mileage (such that it
>>is with a Jeep), but after talking to 6cyl owners, the difference isn't
>>worth mentioning.
>>
>>The SE package only comes with the Dana D35c axle ( the other Jeep
>>packages either give you a D44 option or come std with the D44) which
>>when combined with larger tires and a locker have a reputation for
>>breaking at the most awkward times. Getting a Sport or higher package
>>gives you the option to have the better D44 axle.
>>
>>If you plan on putting bigger tires on the jeep, the 4cyl lack of power
>>will be exaggerated! We went from the stock 27 inch Goodyears to 30 inch
>>BFG ATs in 2001 and there was a definite drop in hwy performance when
>>you hit ANY kind of incline, or trying to pass someone. Although this
>>would be true with any motor, the 4 bangers already poor performance is
>>made worse. The remedy? When you've settled on a tire size (30s, 31's,
>>33's or whatever) you're going to have to re-gear your diffs to get the
>>performance back again.
>>
>>Having said all that, the 4 banger is a good motor. The gearing is
>>around 4.10:1 and believe me that is plenty good enough for around town
>>and on the trails. I've test driven a brand new Sport and although they
>>do have a lot more horsepower, because they're geared at around 3.73:1
>>(or higher, depending on package) you don't really feel a difference.
>>You will however notice that they pass faster at highway speeds, they
>>will maintain their speed better on inclines and will pull a trailer
>>easier than a 4 banger.
>>
>>As far as maintenance is concerned; don't worry about it. Our TJ has
>>185,000 km (111,000 miles) on it and it's been really good to us. I've
>>replaced the rad, replaced the pinion seal in the front diff twice, and
>>had to get the starter repaired and then replaced. Total cost to date
>>Cdn $1100. That's 0.006 cents per km (0.007 cents/mile) for maint $
>>(doesn't include fluid changes and regular preventative mtce). Take care
>>of it and it'll take care of you!
>>
>>I know this write-up makes it sound like the 4banger is biggest piece of
>>junk out there. It's not! For a lot of people it will do what they want
>>it do very well. For those of us that want to push the Jeep as far as we
>>can, the 4 banger leaves a little to be desired at times.
>>
>>My recommendation to people on what they should look for in a Jeep is to
>>get the 6 cyl in whatever model they can afford (Wrangler X, SPORT,
>>SAHARA or the RUBICON), preferably with the D44.
>>
>>Get the 6cyl, D44, your transmission of choice and drive the wheels off
>>the Jeep.
>>
>>
>>Mike
>>98 TJ SE (wifes)
>>02 FLHTCi (mine)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

GzrGlide

Eric wrote:

>I sat here nodding my head in agreement with everything you said with my
>recent road trips fresh in my mind (I have a 99 TJ SE). I'd add a couple of
>things:
>
>1. Regearing, from what I've been told, does nothing more than raise your
>RPMs. Same thing as driving in 4th at 4000 RPMs, but instead you're in 5th.
>(Correct me if I'm wrong...) I was looking at this as an option since I'm
>looking at upgrading my 31s (POS', I'll tell ya) to 32s.
>
It doesn't do anything for actual HP or torque numbers but will help
bring the final drive ratio closer to the stock level.
If you go with bigger tires, you essentially raise the final drive
ratio. You're making the diff think it's geared higher than it actually
is. By re-gearing to a lower ratio (numerically higher...... 4.56 is
lower than 4.10) you're bringing the final drive ratio back closer to
where it was with the origial smaller tires. For example: Our SE
originally came with 27 inch tires and 4.10 gears. When we go to 33 inch
tires we'll lose alot of the performance in the upper end because the
larger tires effectively raised the final drive ratio. If we were to
re-gear to say 4.88 :1 in the diffs, we're reducingthe larger tire sizes
impact on the final drive ratio.
If you're familiar with dyno charts, pictiure this. At the stock gearing
and tire size, the peak of the curve is farther to the left side of the
chart. If you change to a larger tire size without re-gearing, you're
essentially moving the curves to the right. Once you re-gear to a lower
ratio, you've now moved the curves back towards the left. With any luck,
you'll have moved them back to where the were originally with the stock
tires & gears. Go to www.4lo.com to play around with his kind of stuff.

>2. Upgrades to the motor CAN make a difference. I'd say one of the biggest
>was swapping out the throttle body from a 4.0L. I've heard arguments
>for/against the K&N applications. I have an AirAid intake, and with my new
>TB, I think it makes a difference at highway speeds. Like you said, the
>only time most of the mods make any difference is at higher RPMs. I don't
>know about your SE, but at highway speeds I'm turning some high RPMs. On my
>trip I rarely had to downshift to 4th despite many inclines (no, not
>mountains) and maintained an actual (as opposed to indicated) speed of 75
>mph. That was with the back seat out and the "cargo" area PACKED with
>luggage. And remember, I have 31s...
>
You're right about the TB swap. I didn't specifically address it because
I haven't done that yet. But everything I've heard says that for a 4
banger TJ, it's the best performance mod you can do.

>
>3. A/C is great! But it KILLS the 4 cyl. I had it installed and it robbed
>enough power that I had to toggle it on/off when on inclines to maintain
>speed.
>
Never even thought about A/C and a 4-banger!

>Just my 2 cents (or 3...). I'd definitely agree with your statement to get
>the 6 cyl. Although, I wonder, how much money could I afford to spend on
>something I'm just going to beat to death on the trail?? My next TJ will be
>a Rubicon. No doubt. Loads of goodies. BUT, it'll be 5 years old or so
>and driven by some yuppie who never took it off the pavement. ;-) New cars
>just cost too much.
>
I totally agree with you about the Rubi. But when it comes to spending
the money on the TJ........isn't that what jeepin is about? Building
your rig to the be the best that it can be? The 5 grand I saved by not
getting the 4.0, will easily be eaten p by the axle and drivetrain
updates I'll be doing. But then I can say that I built it myself! And
I'll know every inch and nut and bolt of the jeep and why it behave the
way it does. I have alot more respect for people that buid their own
rigs (cars, trucks, boats Harleys etc) than people that go out, drop 30
grand and say "Look what I got", and never use it to it's full potential.

>Eric
>99 TJ SE
>

Happy trails bud.
Mike
98 TJ SE

>
>"GzrGlide" <GzrGlide02@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
>news:7J3kb.77$0M6.318@news1.mts.net...
>
>
>>Well since this seems to come up a number of times a year, I figured I'd
>>post this so if anyone does a Google search, at least they'll get it
>>fairly quickly.
>>
>>4 Banger vs 6 Cylinder Jeeps
>>
>>If you're reading this you're probably wondering whether you should buy
>>a 4 cyl (2.5) or 6 cyl (4.0) Jeep. I hope this helps. As you're reading
>>this keep in mind it's written based on my experiences with my wifes '98
>>TJ SE. This Jeep is used as her daily driver to go to and from work, go
>>shopping, cart kids around and we also use it as our primary 4-wheeled
>>transportation. We take it on holidays, to the lake etc etc. To date it
>>has over 111,000 miles on the odometer, and we've had it since September
>>1997. The only real change we've made is that we replaced the stock 27
>>inch Goodyears with 30x9.5 BFG ATs.
>>
>>Why did we buy a 4 banger TJ? Because I'm a cheap bastard! Here in
>>Canada, when I bought her the Jeep in '98, the Sport package was an
>>extra 5 grand. Besides I figured the Jeep with a 4 banger would get
>>better gas mileage. She only had a passing interest in off-roading at
>>the time so the 4 banger was good enough. Or so I thought.
>>
>>Enough background info. On to the facts.
>>
>>The first thing I noticed was that the 4 banger is severely underpowered
>>for hwy driving. If you want to pass anyone, take a lunch or be prepared
>>to drop it into a lower gear and rev the hell out of the motor (4th
>>gear, 4000 rpm usually does it). The problem is even worse if you're
>>pulling a trailer. We have a utility trailer with a 4x8 foot box on it
>>and when the trailer is hooked up, we don't even try to pass anyone.
>>There usually isn't enough room.
>>
>>So what was the first thing any guy thinks when there's a power problem?
>>"Well we'll just soup up the motor!" I have done a huge amount of
>>research and even tried a few things to get more power from the 4 angry
>>squirrels. In the end it comes back to: "There's no replacement for
>>displacement!" Don't even think about boosting the horsepower with
>>things like K&N filters, computer chips, throttle body spacers, headers,
>>exhaust, electric fans, ancient tribal dances, chinese incantations etc.
>>Some of these mods are either snake-oil, or they're designed to work at
>>the higher end of the RPM scale, which very few Jeeps ever see in any
>>situation. By the time you pay for all that, you might as well drop in a
>>bigger motor, or buy a Jeep with the 6 cyl in the first place.
>>
>>The 4cyl has some other issues as well (this is all from 6 yrs
>>experience). Some of these may or may not be an issue with you, but they
>>warrant mentioning.
>>The only tranny to get is the 5spd (don't bother with the auto). No
>>problem right! Except if you want to pull any kind of trailer, it's too
>>weak to handle 5th gear when the trailer is loaded up. You end up in 4th
>>turning 3000 rpm at 60 mph. Really bad gas mileage!
>>
>>Lack of aftermarket parts for the motor. The aftermarket mfgs cater more
>>to the 4.0L guys. However some of the technology used in the ricer world
>>may be applicable to the 2.5 Jeep motor, but again that may only apply
>>to the higher end of the RPM scale.
>>
>>You would think that the 4cyl would get better gas mileage (such that it
>>is with a Jeep), but after talking to 6cyl owners, the difference isn't
>>worth mentioning.
>>
>>The SE package only comes with the Dana D35c axle ( the other Jeep
>>packages either give you a D44 option or come std with the D44) which
>>when combined with larger tires and a locker have a reputation for
>>breaking at the most awkward times. Getting a Sport or higher package
>>gives you the option to have the better D44 axle.
>>
>>If you plan on putting bigger tires on the jeep, the 4cyl lack of power
>>will be exaggerated! We went from the stock 27 inch Goodyears to 30 inch
>>BFG ATs in 2001 and there was a definite drop in hwy performance when
>>you hit ANY kind of incline, or trying to pass someone. Although this
>>would be true with any motor, the 4 bangers already poor performance is
>>made worse. The remedy? When you've settled on a tire size (30s, 31's,
>>33's or whatever) you're going to have to re-gear your diffs to get the
>>performance back again.
>>
>>Having said all that, the 4 banger is a good motor. The gearing is
>>around 4.10:1 and believe me that is plenty good enough for around town
>>and on the trails. I've test driven a brand new Sport and although they
>>do have a lot more horsepower, because they're geared at around 3.73:1
>>(or higher, depending on package) you don't really feel a difference.
>>You will however notice that they pass faster at highway speeds, they
>>will maintain their speed better on inclines and will pull a trailer
>>easier than a 4 banger.
>>
>>As far as maintenance is concerned; don't worry about it. Our TJ has
>>185,000 km (111,000 miles) on it and it's been really good to us. I've
>>replaced the rad, replaced the pinion seal in the front diff twice, and
>>had to get the starter repaired and then replaced. Total cost to date
>>Cdn $1100. That's 0.006 cents per km (0.007 cents/mile) for maint $
>>(doesn't include fluid changes and regular preventative mtce). Take care
>>of it and it'll take care of you!
>>
>>I know this write-up makes it sound like the 4banger is biggest piece of
>>junk out there. It's not! For a lot of people it will do what they want
>>it do very well. For those of us that want to push the Jeep as far as we
>>can, the 4 banger leaves a little to be desired at times.
>>
>>My recommendation to people on what they should look for in a Jeep is to
>>get the 6 cyl in whatever model they can afford (Wrangler X, SPORT,
>>SAHARA or the RUBICON), preferably with the D44.
>>
>>Get the 6cyl, D44, your transmission of choice and drive the wheels off
>>the Jeep.
>>
>>
>>Mike
>>98 TJ SE (wifes)
>>02 FLHTCi (mine)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

GzrGlide

Eric wrote:

>I sat here nodding my head in agreement with everything you said with my
>recent road trips fresh in my mind (I have a 99 TJ SE). I'd add a couple of
>things:
>
>1. Regearing, from what I've been told, does nothing more than raise your
>RPMs. Same thing as driving in 4th at 4000 RPMs, but instead you're in 5th.
>(Correct me if I'm wrong...) I was looking at this as an option since I'm
>looking at upgrading my 31s (POS', I'll tell ya) to 32s.
>
It doesn't do anything for actual HP or torque numbers but will help
bring the final drive ratio closer to the stock level.
If you go with bigger tires, you essentially raise the final drive
ratio. You're making the diff think it's geared higher than it actually
is. By re-gearing to a lower ratio (numerically higher...... 4.56 is
lower than 4.10) you're bringing the final drive ratio back closer to
where it was with the origial smaller tires. For example: Our SE
originally came with 27 inch tires and 4.10 gears. When we go to 33 inch
tires we'll lose alot of the performance in the upper end because the
larger tires effectively raised the final drive ratio. If we were to
re-gear to say 4.88 :1 in the diffs, we're reducingthe larger tire sizes
impact on the final drive ratio.
If you're familiar with dyno charts, pictiure this. At the stock gearing
and tire size, the peak of the curve is farther to the left side of the
chart. If you change to a larger tire size without re-gearing, you're
essentially moving the curves to the right. Once you re-gear to a lower
ratio, you've now moved the curves back towards the left. With any luck,
you'll have moved them back to where the were originally with the stock
tires & gears. Go to www.4lo.com to play around with his kind of stuff.

>2. Upgrades to the motor CAN make a difference. I'd say one of the biggest
>was swapping out the throttle body from a 4.0L. I've heard arguments
>for/against the K&N applications. I have an AirAid intake, and with my new
>TB, I think it makes a difference at highway speeds. Like you said, the
>only time most of the mods make any difference is at higher RPMs. I don't
>know about your SE, but at highway speeds I'm turning some high RPMs. On my
>trip I rarely had to downshift to 4th despite many inclines (no, not
>mountains) and maintained an actual (as opposed to indicated) speed of 75
>mph. That was with the back seat out and the "cargo" area PACKED with
>luggage. And remember, I have 31s...
>
You're right about the TB swap. I didn't specifically address it because
I haven't done that yet. But everything I've heard says that for a 4
banger TJ, it's the best performance mod you can do.

>
>3. A/C is great! But it KILLS the 4 cyl. I had it installed and it robbed
>enough power that I had to toggle it on/off when on inclines to maintain
>speed.
>
Never even thought about A/C and a 4-banger!

>Just my 2 cents (or 3...). I'd definitely agree with your statement to get
>the 6 cyl. Although, I wonder, how much money could I afford to spend on
>something I'm just going to beat to death on the trail?? My next TJ will be
>a Rubicon. No doubt. Loads of goodies. BUT, it'll be 5 years old or so
>and driven by some yuppie who never took it off the pavement. ;-) New cars
>just cost too much.
>
I totally agree with you about the Rubi. But when it comes to spending
the money on the TJ........isn't that what jeepin is about? Building
your rig to the be the best that it can be? The 5 grand I saved by not
getting the 4.0, will easily be eaten p by the axle and drivetrain
updates I'll be doing. But then I can say that I built it myself! And
I'll know every inch and nut and bolt of the jeep and why it behave the
way it does. I have alot more respect for people that buid their own
rigs (cars, trucks, boats Harleys etc) than people that go out, drop 30
grand and say "Look what I got", and never use it to it's full potential.

>Eric
>99 TJ SE
>

Happy trails bud.
Mike
98 TJ SE

>
>"GzrGlide" <GzrGlide02@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
>news:7J3kb.77$0M6.318@news1.mts.net...
>
>
>>Well since this seems to come up a number of times a year, I figured I'd
>>post this so if anyone does a Google search, at least they'll get it
>>fairly quickly.
>>
>>4 Banger vs 6 Cylinder Jeeps
>>
>>If you're reading this you're probably wondering whether you should buy
>>a 4 cyl (2.5) or 6 cyl (4.0) Jeep. I hope this helps. As you're reading
>>this keep in mind it's written based on my experiences with my wifes '98
>>TJ SE. This Jeep is used as her daily driver to go to and from work, go
>>shopping, cart kids around and we also use it as our primary 4-wheeled
>>transportation. We take it on holidays, to the lake etc etc. To date it
>>has over 111,000 miles on the odometer, and we've had it since September
>>1997. The only real change we've made is that we replaced the stock 27
>>inch Goodyears with 30x9.5 BFG ATs.
>>
>>Why did we buy a 4 banger TJ? Because I'm a cheap bastard! Here in
>>Canada, when I bought her the Jeep in '98, the Sport package was an
>>extra 5 grand. Besides I figured the Jeep with a 4 banger would get
>>better gas mileage. She only had a passing interest in off-roading at
>>the time so the 4 banger was good enough. Or so I thought.
>>
>>Enough background info. On to the facts.
>>
>>The first thing I noticed was that the 4 banger is severely underpowered
>>for hwy driving. If you want to pass anyone, take a lunch or be prepared
>>to drop it into a lower gear and rev the hell out of the motor (4th
>>gear, 4000 rpm usually does it). The problem is even worse if you're
>>pulling a trailer. We have a utility trailer with a 4x8 foot box on it
>>and when the trailer is hooked up, we don't even try to pass anyone.
>>There usually isn't enough room.
>>
>>So what was the first thing any guy thinks when there's a power problem?
>>"Well we'll just soup up the motor!" I have done a huge amount of
>>research and even tried a few things to get more power from the 4 angry
>>squirrels. In the end it comes back to: "There's no replacement for
>>displacement!" Don't even think about boosting the horsepower with
>>things like K&N filters, computer chips, throttle body spacers, headers,
>>exhaust, electric fans, ancient tribal dances, chinese incantations etc.
>>Some of these mods are either snake-oil, or they're designed to work at
>>the higher end of the RPM scale, which very few Jeeps ever see in any
>>situation. By the time you pay for all that, you might as well drop in a
>>bigger motor, or buy a Jeep with the 6 cyl in the first place.
>>
>>The 4cyl has some other issues as well (this is all from 6 yrs
>>experience). Some of these may or may not be an issue with you, but they
>>warrant mentioning.
>>The only tranny to get is the 5spd (don't bother with the auto). No
>>problem right! Except if you want to pull any kind of trailer, it's too
>>weak to handle 5th gear when the trailer is loaded up. You end up in 4th
>>turning 3000 rpm at 60 mph. Really bad gas mileage!
>>
>>Lack of aftermarket parts for the motor. The aftermarket mfgs cater more
>>to the 4.0L guys. However some of the technology used in the ricer world
>>may be applicable to the 2.5 Jeep motor, but again that may only apply
>>to the higher end of the RPM scale.
>>
>>You would think that the 4cyl would get better gas mileage (such that it
>>is with a Jeep), but after talking to 6cyl owners, the difference isn't
>>worth mentioning.
>>
>>The SE package only comes with the Dana D35c axle ( the other Jeep
>>packages either give you a D44 option or come std with the D44) which
>>when combined with larger tires and a locker have a reputation for
>>breaking at the most awkward times. Getting a Sport or higher package
>>gives you the option to have the better D44 axle.
>>
>>If you plan on putting bigger tires on the jeep, the 4cyl lack of power
>>will be exaggerated! We went from the stock 27 inch Goodyears to 30 inch
>>BFG ATs in 2001 and there was a definite drop in hwy performance when
>>you hit ANY kind of incline, or trying to pass someone. Although this
>>would be true with any motor, the 4 bangers already poor performance is
>>made worse. The remedy? When you've settled on a tire size (30s, 31's,
>>33's or whatever) you're going to have to re-gear your diffs to get the
>>performance back again.
>>
>>Having said all that, the 4 banger is a good motor. The gearing is
>>around 4.10:1 and believe me that is plenty good enough for around town
>>and on the trails. I've test driven a brand new Sport and although they
>>do have a lot more horsepower, because they're geared at around 3.73:1
>>(or higher, depending on package) you don't really feel a difference.
>>You will however notice that they pass faster at highway speeds, they
>>will maintain their speed better on inclines and will pull a trailer
>>easier than a 4 banger.
>>
>>As far as maintenance is concerned; don't worry about it. Our TJ has
>>185,000 km (111,000 miles) on it and it's been really good to us. I've
>>replaced the rad, replaced the pinion seal in the front diff twice, and
>>had to get the starter repaired and then replaced. Total cost to date
>>Cdn $1100. That's 0.006 cents per km (0.007 cents/mile) for maint $
>>(doesn't include fluid changes and regular preventative mtce). Take care
>>of it and it'll take care of you!
>>
>>I know this write-up makes it sound like the 4banger is biggest piece of
>>junk out there. It's not! For a lot of people it will do what they want
>>it do very well. For those of us that want to push the Jeep as far as we
>>can, the 4 banger leaves a little to be desired at times.
>>
>>My recommendation to people on what they should look for in a Jeep is to
>>get the 6 cyl in whatever model they can afford (Wrangler X, SPORT,
>>SAHARA or the RUBICON), preferably with the D44.
>>
>>Get the 6cyl, D44, your transmission of choice and drive the wheels off
>>the Jeep.
>>
>>
>>Mike
>>98 TJ SE (wifes)
>>02 FLHTCi (mine)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

Nathan Collier

"mpresley" <mpresley72remove@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hZekb.77534$Pd.1605940@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> The new Jeeps have, I think, a four speed auto so perhaps
> the extra gear helps in the milage department

roughly 14.5 mpg city/hwy combined on my '03 rubi 4 speed auto.


--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com

Nathan Collier

"mpresley" <mpresley72remove@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hZekb.77534$Pd.1605940@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> The new Jeeps have, I think, a four speed auto so perhaps
> the extra gear helps in the milage department

roughly 14.5 mpg city/hwy combined on my '03 rubi 4 speed auto.


--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com

Nathan Collier

"mpresley" <mpresley72remove@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hZekb.77534$Pd.1605940@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> The new Jeeps have, I think, a four speed auto so perhaps
> the extra gear helps in the milage department

roughly 14.5 mpg city/hwy combined on my '03 rubi 4 speed auto.


--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com

Peter Parker

In article <9rcmb.5794$v82.283502@twister.southeast.rr.com> ,
Nathan Collier <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote:
>"mpresley" <mpresley72remove@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:hZekb.77534$Pd.1605940@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...
>> The new Jeeps have, I think, a four speed auto so perhaps
>> the extra gear helps in the milage department
>
>roughly 14.5 mpg city/hwy combined on my '03 rubi 4 speed auto.

Hmmm. I get 21 MPG with my I-6 and AX-15. Of course your rubi tires
and AT are not helping.

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