4.0 history
03-23-2005, 08:53 PM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 4.0 history
I remember when that 4cyl came out and I swear they were saying at the
time that it was basically a 258/232 with two cylinders cut off and a
revised head. It wasn't JUST a 258/232 with two cylinders lopped off,
but basically that is what they did. The 4.0 was basically the same
engine with the two cylinders put back on.
Keep in mind when AMC designed the 4cyl they weren't exactly flush with
cash, as much as they could they had to make do with what they had. If
that wasn't the case how do you explain the Gremlin and the Spirit?
Seems to me that it's HIGHLY unlikely they would have designed a totally
new engine that would bolt up just like the old one AND would have
really major parts like the crankshaft interchangeable with the old one.
The independents had to do some VERY creative things to survive as long
as they did.
I never heard of a stroker 4.0, cool idea, I'd love to build one, then I
can REALLY **** off the Mustang crowd with my Cherokee <BG>
Jeff DeWitt
Lee Ayrton wrote:
>
> If you Google on this you'll find that it is widely believed by posters
> that the 4.0L/242ci is simply an updated 258ci and that the 2.5L I4 was
> simply a 258 with 2 cylinders lopped off.
>
> But many sites that bothered to look things up claim that the 2.5L was
> pretty much designed from the ground up and that the 4.0L is mostly
> based upon the engineering for the 2.5L engine, although obviously some
> 258ci parts will fit (or, /mostly/ fit in the case of heads) on the 4.0L
> block. See:
>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc242.html>
>
> The 258ci was, of course, simply a stroked 232 block (anyone want a free
> 232 engine? Come and get it). See:
>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc258.html>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc232.html>
>
> Ah! This sounds like what I remember reading, but the link is down
> right now. Google Cache has it at:
>
> <URL:http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:W0M1PjKmYKMJ:wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/xjmtr.html>
>
>
> Or Google the phrase _"closer relation was the fuel injected I-4"_
>
>
>
> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>
>> I'm curious about the history of the 4.0 engine. I know it's based on
>> an engine AMC introduced in 1964 (and powered a bunch of Gremlins a
>> while later), but at some point AMC (or Nash) took a clean sheet of
>> paper and designed a new engine that eventually evolved into our
>> wonderful 4.0.
>>
>> Does anyone know when that was and anything about the orginal engine?
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>
>
time that it was basically a 258/232 with two cylinders cut off and a
revised head. It wasn't JUST a 258/232 with two cylinders lopped off,
but basically that is what they did. The 4.0 was basically the same
engine with the two cylinders put back on.
Keep in mind when AMC designed the 4cyl they weren't exactly flush with
cash, as much as they could they had to make do with what they had. If
that wasn't the case how do you explain the Gremlin and the Spirit?
Seems to me that it's HIGHLY unlikely they would have designed a totally
new engine that would bolt up just like the old one AND would have
really major parts like the crankshaft interchangeable with the old one.
The independents had to do some VERY creative things to survive as long
as they did.
I never heard of a stroker 4.0, cool idea, I'd love to build one, then I
can REALLY **** off the Mustang crowd with my Cherokee <BG>
Jeff DeWitt
Lee Ayrton wrote:
>
> If you Google on this you'll find that it is widely believed by posters
> that the 4.0L/242ci is simply an updated 258ci and that the 2.5L I4 was
> simply a 258 with 2 cylinders lopped off.
>
> But many sites that bothered to look things up claim that the 2.5L was
> pretty much designed from the ground up and that the 4.0L is mostly
> based upon the engineering for the 2.5L engine, although obviously some
> 258ci parts will fit (or, /mostly/ fit in the case of heads) on the 4.0L
> block. See:
>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc242.html>
>
> The 258ci was, of course, simply a stroked 232 block (anyone want a free
> 232 engine? Come and get it). See:
>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc258.html>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc232.html>
>
> Ah! This sounds like what I remember reading, but the link is down
> right now. Google Cache has it at:
>
> <URL:http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:W0M1PjKmYKMJ:wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/xjmtr.html>
>
>
> Or Google the phrase _"closer relation was the fuel injected I-4"_
>
>
>
> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>
>> I'm curious about the history of the 4.0 engine. I know it's based on
>> an engine AMC introduced in 1964 (and powered a bunch of Gremlins a
>> while later), but at some point AMC (or Nash) took a clean sheet of
>> paper and designed a new engine that eventually evolved into our
>> wonderful 4.0.
>>
>> Does anyone know when that was and anything about the orginal engine?
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>
>
03-23-2005, 08:53 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 4.0 history
I remember when that 4cyl came out and I swear they were saying at the
time that it was basically a 258/232 with two cylinders cut off and a
revised head. It wasn't JUST a 258/232 with two cylinders lopped off,
but basically that is what they did. The 4.0 was basically the same
engine with the two cylinders put back on.
Keep in mind when AMC designed the 4cyl they weren't exactly flush with
cash, as much as they could they had to make do with what they had. If
that wasn't the case how do you explain the Gremlin and the Spirit?
Seems to me that it's HIGHLY unlikely they would have designed a totally
new engine that would bolt up just like the old one AND would have
really major parts like the crankshaft interchangeable with the old one.
The independents had to do some VERY creative things to survive as long
as they did.
I never heard of a stroker 4.0, cool idea, I'd love to build one, then I
can REALLY **** off the Mustang crowd with my Cherokee <BG>
Jeff DeWitt
Lee Ayrton wrote:
>
> If you Google on this you'll find that it is widely believed by posters
> that the 4.0L/242ci is simply an updated 258ci and that the 2.5L I4 was
> simply a 258 with 2 cylinders lopped off.
>
> But many sites that bothered to look things up claim that the 2.5L was
> pretty much designed from the ground up and that the 4.0L is mostly
> based upon the engineering for the 2.5L engine, although obviously some
> 258ci parts will fit (or, /mostly/ fit in the case of heads) on the 4.0L
> block. See:
>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc242.html>
>
> The 258ci was, of course, simply a stroked 232 block (anyone want a free
> 232 engine? Come and get it). See:
>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc258.html>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc232.html>
>
> Ah! This sounds like what I remember reading, but the link is down
> right now. Google Cache has it at:
>
> <URL:http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:W0M1PjKmYKMJ:wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/xjmtr.html>
>
>
> Or Google the phrase _"closer relation was the fuel injected I-4"_
>
>
>
> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>
>> I'm curious about the history of the 4.0 engine. I know it's based on
>> an engine AMC introduced in 1964 (and powered a bunch of Gremlins a
>> while later), but at some point AMC (or Nash) took a clean sheet of
>> paper and designed a new engine that eventually evolved into our
>> wonderful 4.0.
>>
>> Does anyone know when that was and anything about the orginal engine?
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>
>
time that it was basically a 258/232 with two cylinders cut off and a
revised head. It wasn't JUST a 258/232 with two cylinders lopped off,
but basically that is what they did. The 4.0 was basically the same
engine with the two cylinders put back on.
Keep in mind when AMC designed the 4cyl they weren't exactly flush with
cash, as much as they could they had to make do with what they had. If
that wasn't the case how do you explain the Gremlin and the Spirit?
Seems to me that it's HIGHLY unlikely they would have designed a totally
new engine that would bolt up just like the old one AND would have
really major parts like the crankshaft interchangeable with the old one.
The independents had to do some VERY creative things to survive as long
as they did.
I never heard of a stroker 4.0, cool idea, I'd love to build one, then I
can REALLY **** off the Mustang crowd with my Cherokee <BG>
Jeff DeWitt
Lee Ayrton wrote:
>
> If you Google on this you'll find that it is widely believed by posters
> that the 4.0L/242ci is simply an updated 258ci and that the 2.5L I4 was
> simply a 258 with 2 cylinders lopped off.
>
> But many sites that bothered to look things up claim that the 2.5L was
> pretty much designed from the ground up and that the 4.0L is mostly
> based upon the engineering for the 2.5L engine, although obviously some
> 258ci parts will fit (or, /mostly/ fit in the case of heads) on the 4.0L
> block. See:
>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc242.html>
>
> The 258ci was, of course, simply a stroked 232 block (anyone want a free
> 232 engine? Come and get it). See:
>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc258.html>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc232.html>
>
> Ah! This sounds like what I remember reading, but the link is down
> right now. Google Cache has it at:
>
> <URL:http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:W0M1PjKmYKMJ:wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/xjmtr.html>
>
>
> Or Google the phrase _"closer relation was the fuel injected I-4"_
>
>
>
> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>
>> I'm curious about the history of the 4.0 engine. I know it's based on
>> an engine AMC introduced in 1964 (and powered a bunch of Gremlins a
>> while later), but at some point AMC (or Nash) took a clean sheet of
>> paper and designed a new engine that eventually evolved into our
>> wonderful 4.0.
>>
>> Does anyone know when that was and anything about the orginal engine?
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>
>
03-23-2005, 08:53 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 4.0 history
I remember when that 4cyl came out and I swear they were saying at the
time that it was basically a 258/232 with two cylinders cut off and a
revised head. It wasn't JUST a 258/232 with two cylinders lopped off,
but basically that is what they did. The 4.0 was basically the same
engine with the two cylinders put back on.
Keep in mind when AMC designed the 4cyl they weren't exactly flush with
cash, as much as they could they had to make do with what they had. If
that wasn't the case how do you explain the Gremlin and the Spirit?
Seems to me that it's HIGHLY unlikely they would have designed a totally
new engine that would bolt up just like the old one AND would have
really major parts like the crankshaft interchangeable with the old one.
The independents had to do some VERY creative things to survive as long
as they did.
I never heard of a stroker 4.0, cool idea, I'd love to build one, then I
can REALLY **** off the Mustang crowd with my Cherokee <BG>
Jeff DeWitt
Lee Ayrton wrote:
>
> If you Google on this you'll find that it is widely believed by posters
> that the 4.0L/242ci is simply an updated 258ci and that the 2.5L I4 was
> simply a 258 with 2 cylinders lopped off.
>
> But many sites that bothered to look things up claim that the 2.5L was
> pretty much designed from the ground up and that the 4.0L is mostly
> based upon the engineering for the 2.5L engine, although obviously some
> 258ci parts will fit (or, /mostly/ fit in the case of heads) on the 4.0L
> block. See:
>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc242.html>
>
> The 258ci was, of course, simply a stroked 232 block (anyone want a free
> 232 engine? Come and get it). See:
>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc258.html>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc232.html>
>
> Ah! This sounds like what I remember reading, but the link is down
> right now. Google Cache has it at:
>
> <URL:http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:W0M1PjKmYKMJ:wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/xjmtr.html>
>
>
> Or Google the phrase _"closer relation was the fuel injected I-4"_
>
>
>
> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>
>> I'm curious about the history of the 4.0 engine. I know it's based on
>> an engine AMC introduced in 1964 (and powered a bunch of Gremlins a
>> while later), but at some point AMC (or Nash) took a clean sheet of
>> paper and designed a new engine that eventually evolved into our
>> wonderful 4.0.
>>
>> Does anyone know when that was and anything about the orginal engine?
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>
>
time that it was basically a 258/232 with two cylinders cut off and a
revised head. It wasn't JUST a 258/232 with two cylinders lopped off,
but basically that is what they did. The 4.0 was basically the same
engine with the two cylinders put back on.
Keep in mind when AMC designed the 4cyl they weren't exactly flush with
cash, as much as they could they had to make do with what they had. If
that wasn't the case how do you explain the Gremlin and the Spirit?
Seems to me that it's HIGHLY unlikely they would have designed a totally
new engine that would bolt up just like the old one AND would have
really major parts like the crankshaft interchangeable with the old one.
The independents had to do some VERY creative things to survive as long
as they did.
I never heard of a stroker 4.0, cool idea, I'd love to build one, then I
can REALLY **** off the Mustang crowd with my Cherokee <BG>
Jeff DeWitt
Lee Ayrton wrote:
>
> If you Google on this you'll find that it is widely believed by posters
> that the 4.0L/242ci is simply an updated 258ci and that the 2.5L I4 was
> simply a 258 with 2 cylinders lopped off.
>
> But many sites that bothered to look things up claim that the 2.5L was
> pretty much designed from the ground up and that the 4.0L is mostly
> based upon the engineering for the 2.5L engine, although obviously some
> 258ci parts will fit (or, /mostly/ fit in the case of heads) on the 4.0L
> block. See:
>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc242.html>
>
> The 258ci was, of course, simply a stroked 232 block (anyone want a free
> 232 engine? Come and get it). See:
>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc258.html>
> <URL:http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/amc232.html>
>
> Ah! This sounds like what I remember reading, but the link is down
> right now. Google Cache has it at:
>
> <URL:http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:W0M1PjKmYKMJ:wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/xjmtr.html>
>
>
> Or Google the phrase _"closer relation was the fuel injected I-4"_
>
>
>
> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>
>> I'm curious about the history of the 4.0 engine. I know it's based on
>> an engine AMC introduced in 1964 (and powered a bunch of Gremlins a
>> while later), but at some point AMC (or Nash) took a clean sheet of
>> paper and designed a new engine that eventually evolved into our
>> wonderful 4.0.
>>
>> Does anyone know when that was and anything about the orginal engine?
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>
>
03-24-2005, 12:03 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 4.0 history
Lee Ayrton wrote:
>
> Historical perspective. The OP asked about the history of the 4.0L and
> thought that it had been designed on a "fresh sheet of paper". I was
> trying to cover all the bases and show that the 2.5L was the one
> designed from the ground up and the 4.0L was based on that engineering
> work. And that neither is very close kin to the 232/258.
The 4.0 uses different castings from the 232/258, however the design was
constrained by the fact it had to run on the same transfer line. The
tooling is shared between the two designs. Given this sharing, it is
doubtful that there was any truly "blank sheet" of paper. As an aside,
the age of this tooling may be what finally leads to the discontinuation
of the Jeep I-6.
-- jeff
>
> Historical perspective. The OP asked about the history of the 4.0L and
> thought that it had been designed on a "fresh sheet of paper". I was
> trying to cover all the bases and show that the 2.5L was the one
> designed from the ground up and the 4.0L was based on that engineering
> work. And that neither is very close kin to the 232/258.
The 4.0 uses different castings from the 232/258, however the design was
constrained by the fact it had to run on the same transfer line. The
tooling is shared between the two designs. Given this sharing, it is
doubtful that there was any truly "blank sheet" of paper. As an aside,
the age of this tooling may be what finally leads to the discontinuation
of the Jeep I-6.
-- jeff
03-24-2005, 12:03 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 4.0 history
Lee Ayrton wrote:
>
> Historical perspective. The OP asked about the history of the 4.0L and
> thought that it had been designed on a "fresh sheet of paper". I was
> trying to cover all the bases and show that the 2.5L was the one
> designed from the ground up and the 4.0L was based on that engineering
> work. And that neither is very close kin to the 232/258.
The 4.0 uses different castings from the 232/258, however the design was
constrained by the fact it had to run on the same transfer line. The
tooling is shared between the two designs. Given this sharing, it is
doubtful that there was any truly "blank sheet" of paper. As an aside,
the age of this tooling may be what finally leads to the discontinuation
of the Jeep I-6.
-- jeff
>
> Historical perspective. The OP asked about the history of the 4.0L and
> thought that it had been designed on a "fresh sheet of paper". I was
> trying to cover all the bases and show that the 2.5L was the one
> designed from the ground up and the 4.0L was based on that engineering
> work. And that neither is very close kin to the 232/258.
The 4.0 uses different castings from the 232/258, however the design was
constrained by the fact it had to run on the same transfer line. The
tooling is shared between the two designs. Given this sharing, it is
doubtful that there was any truly "blank sheet" of paper. As an aside,
the age of this tooling may be what finally leads to the discontinuation
of the Jeep I-6.
-- jeff
03-24-2005, 12:03 PM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 4.0 history
Lee Ayrton wrote:
>
> Historical perspective. The OP asked about the history of the 4.0L and
> thought that it had been designed on a "fresh sheet of paper". I was
> trying to cover all the bases and show that the 2.5L was the one
> designed from the ground up and the 4.0L was based on that engineering
> work. And that neither is very close kin to the 232/258.
The 4.0 uses different castings from the 232/258, however the design was
constrained by the fact it had to run on the same transfer line. The
tooling is shared between the two designs. Given this sharing, it is
doubtful that there was any truly "blank sheet" of paper. As an aside,
the age of this tooling may be what finally leads to the discontinuation
of the Jeep I-6.
-- jeff
>
> Historical perspective. The OP asked about the history of the 4.0L and
> thought that it had been designed on a "fresh sheet of paper". I was
> trying to cover all the bases and show that the 2.5L was the one
> designed from the ground up and the 4.0L was based on that engineering
> work. And that neither is very close kin to the 232/258.
The 4.0 uses different castings from the 232/258, however the design was
constrained by the fact it had to run on the same transfer line. The
tooling is shared between the two designs. Given this sharing, it is
doubtful that there was any truly "blank sheet" of paper. As an aside,
the age of this tooling may be what finally leads to the discontinuation
of the Jeep I-6.
-- jeff
03-27-2005, 12:31 AM
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 4.0 history
"Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:j4p0e.36858$nZ.1896717@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
>
> I never heard of a stroker 4.0, cool idea, I'd love to build one, then I
> can REALLY **** off the Mustang crowd with my Cherokee <BG>
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
Jeff,
Some links after a little google search.
Luck,
Brian
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techrepor...er40/index.asp
http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical...kerSummary.htm
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...d3/cored3.html
http://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/stroker.html
03-27-2005, 12:31 AM
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 4.0 history
"Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:j4p0e.36858$nZ.1896717@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
>
> I never heard of a stroker 4.0, cool idea, I'd love to build one, then I
> can REALLY **** off the Mustang crowd with my Cherokee <BG>
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
Jeff,
Some links after a little google search.
Luck,
Brian
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techrepor...er40/index.asp
http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical...kerSummary.htm
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...d3/cored3.html
http://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/stroker.html
03-27-2005, 12:31 AM
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 4.0 history
"Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:j4p0e.36858$nZ.1896717@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
>
> I never heard of a stroker 4.0, cool idea, I'd love to build one, then I
> can REALLY **** off the Mustang crowd with my Cherokee <BG>
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
Jeff,
Some links after a little google search.
Luck,
Brian
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techrepor...er40/index.asp
http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical...kerSummary.htm
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...d3/cored3.html
http://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/stroker.html
03-27-2005, 01:14 PM
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 4.0 history
Clifford Engineering, JRE, and Hesco all seem to be popular sources...
Bulletsnbrains proclaimed:
> "Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:j4p0e.36858$nZ.1896717@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
>
>>I never heard of a stroker 4.0, cool idea, I'd love to build one, then I
>>can REALLY **** off the Mustang crowd with my Cherokee <BG>
>>
>>Jeff DeWitt
>>
>
>
> Jeff,
> Some links after a little google search.
>
> Luck,
> Brian
>
> http://www.rockcrawler.com/techrepor...er40/index.asp
>
> http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical...kerSummary.htm
>
> http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...d3/cored3.html
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/stroker.html
>
>