Thomas Waldron

Don't agree to what? Sounds like we said the same thing.

tw

Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:

> I don't agree at all. I can't think of any that are really beautiful...
> well maybe one of the big old Wagoneers comes close, but most Jeeps have
> a solid, no nonsense utilitarian look to them, like a nice hammer does.
> My little Cherokee isn't beautiful, it isn't cute, but it does have
> that look.
>
> Guess that's one of the things that's bugged me about the Liberty, it
> doesn't have that look.
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
>> Thomas Waldron wrote:
>> All Jeeps are ugly. The best we can hope for is 'cute-ugly'. There is
>> nothing beautiful about a Jeep's appearance. It's a GD utility
>> vehicle! A Ferrari 308 is beautiful. Personally, I think any change
>> on the Libby is an improvement. Part of the Commander's ugliness is
>> that it is HUGE and ugly. This new Libby will be small and ugly and
>> therefore may become 'cute-ugly'. I dislike it less. :)
>>
>> tw


--
__________________________________________________ ___________________
2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."

Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
__________________________________________________ ___________________

Thomas Waldron

Yes, TJs, CJs...a face only a mother could love. ;)

tw

L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:

> Speak for your own TJ!
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Thomas Waldron wrote:
>
>>All Jeeps are ugly. The best we can hope for is 'cute-ugly'. There is
>>nothing beautiful about a Jeep's appearance. It's a GD utility vehicle!
>>A Ferrari 308 is beautiful. Personally, I think any change on the Libby
>>is an improvement. Part of the Commander's ugliness is that it is HUGE
>>and ugly. This new Libby will be small and ugly and therefore may become
>>'cute-ugly'. I dislike it less. :)
>>
>>tw

--
__________________________________________________ ___________________
2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."

Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
__________________________________________________ ___________________

Thomas Waldron

Yes, TJs, CJs...a face only a mother could love. ;)

tw

L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:

> Speak for your own TJ!
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Thomas Waldron wrote:
>
>>All Jeeps are ugly. The best we can hope for is 'cute-ugly'. There is
>>nothing beautiful about a Jeep's appearance. It's a GD utility vehicle!
>>A Ferrari 308 is beautiful. Personally, I think any change on the Libby
>>is an improvement. Part of the Commander's ugliness is that it is HUGE
>>and ugly. This new Libby will be small and ugly and therefore may become
>>'cute-ugly'. I dislike it less. :)
>>
>>tw

--
__________________________________________________ ___________________
2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."

Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
__________________________________________________ ___________________

Thomas Waldron

Yes, TJs, CJs...a face only a mother could love. ;)

tw

L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:

> Speak for your own TJ!
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Thomas Waldron wrote:
>
>>All Jeeps are ugly. The best we can hope for is 'cute-ugly'. There is
>>nothing beautiful about a Jeep's appearance. It's a GD utility vehicle!
>>A Ferrari 308 is beautiful. Personally, I think any change on the Libby
>>is an improvement. Part of the Commander's ugliness is that it is HUGE
>>and ugly. This new Libby will be small and ugly and therefore may become
>>'cute-ugly'. I dislike it less. :)
>>
>>tw

--
__________________________________________________ ___________________
2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."

Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
__________________________________________________ ___________________

billy ray

Had they come out with this new Liberty first I don't think there would have
been as much controversy as it retains most of the classic XJ lines.....

I think what people are/were upset about wasn't that there was a change but
that the change was from a 'Jeep' to a 'girlie-mobile' which was their
intent....

I think they (DC) assumed that the XJ and ZJ people would just slide into
the WJs like nothing else had happened.... after all that was the plan when
the ZJ was introduced a decade and a half ago....

Does DC care about the cadre of 'hard core Jeepers'? Yes, but as we all
know....... the hard core mob is really pretty small and have shown amazing
willingness to adapt to the last 2 generations of change and , in all
likelihood, continue to adapt with the Jeep generations to come.

If DC was just a little bit smarter they would continue to make their
products 'longer, lower, and wider' (i.e Pontiac) to satisfy the pavement
queens and the product liability shysters while making sure the engineers
made the common modifications relatively easy for the owners wanting to do
so.....

It is unrealistic to think that DC will equip all 'Jeeps' with heavy duty
axles but you can market a pickup with the necessary gear and engineer the
parts to be bolt-on swaps.... that also lowers your warehouse inventory and
assures a good supply of ready and affordable replacements.

The same is true of engines....... the 4 liter was a good engine.... almost
revolutionary in its day. A lot of the younger readers here are probably
unaware that when the 4 liter engine was introduced it put out more power
than most of the available V-8s. Even the WJ carrying a thousand pounds
more than the engine was designed for still gives good performance. Will
the world come to an end because the 4 liter is gone...... no, DC has a
whole new series of V-6 engines to come in the next few years according to
allpar that will put the current 1990s engines to shame.

For Jeep to survive they have to grow and growth includes change whether we
like it or not.....


"Thomas Waldron" <thomas@OBVIOUSrubicons.com> wrote in message
news:sYP0h.13826$DH5.8881@trnddc04...
> Don't agree to what? Sounds like we said the same thing.
>
> tw
>
> Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
>
>> I don't agree at all. I can't think of any that are really beautiful...
>> well maybe one of the big old Wagoneers comes close, but most Jeeps have
>> a solid, no nonsense utilitarian look to them, like a nice hammer does.
>> My little Cherokee isn't beautiful, it isn't cute, but it does have that
>> look.
>>
>> Guess that's one of the things that's bugged me about the Liberty, it
>> doesn't have that look.
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>>
>>> Thomas Waldron wrote:
>>> All Jeeps are ugly. The best we can hope for is 'cute-ugly'. There is
>>> nothing beautiful about a Jeep's appearance. It's a GD utility vehicle!
>>> A Ferrari 308 is beautiful. Personally, I think any change on the Libby
>>> is an improvement. Part of the Commander's ugliness is that it is HUGE
>>> and ugly. This new Libby will be small and ugly and therefore may become
>>> 'cute-ugly'. I dislike it less. :)
>>>
>>> tw
>
>
> --
> __________________________________________________ ___________________
> 2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
>
> "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."
>
> Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940
>
> Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
> A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
> capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
> __________________________________________________ ___________________

billy ray

Had they come out with this new Liberty first I don't think there would have
been as much controversy as it retains most of the classic XJ lines.....

I think what people are/were upset about wasn't that there was a change but
that the change was from a 'Jeep' to a 'girlie-mobile' which was their
intent....

I think they (DC) assumed that the XJ and ZJ people would just slide into
the WJs like nothing else had happened.... after all that was the plan when
the ZJ was introduced a decade and a half ago....

Does DC care about the cadre of 'hard core Jeepers'? Yes, but as we all
know....... the hard core mob is really pretty small and have shown amazing
willingness to adapt to the last 2 generations of change and , in all
likelihood, continue to adapt with the Jeep generations to come.

If DC was just a little bit smarter they would continue to make their
products 'longer, lower, and wider' (i.e Pontiac) to satisfy the pavement
queens and the product liability shysters while making sure the engineers
made the common modifications relatively easy for the owners wanting to do
so.....

It is unrealistic to think that DC will equip all 'Jeeps' with heavy duty
axles but you can market a pickup with the necessary gear and engineer the
parts to be bolt-on swaps.... that also lowers your warehouse inventory and
assures a good supply of ready and affordable replacements.

The same is true of engines....... the 4 liter was a good engine.... almost
revolutionary in its day. A lot of the younger readers here are probably
unaware that when the 4 liter engine was introduced it put out more power
than most of the available V-8s. Even the WJ carrying a thousand pounds
more than the engine was designed for still gives good performance. Will
the world come to an end because the 4 liter is gone...... no, DC has a
whole new series of V-6 engines to come in the next few years according to
allpar that will put the current 1990s engines to shame.

For Jeep to survive they have to grow and growth includes change whether we
like it or not.....


"Thomas Waldron" <thomas@OBVIOUSrubicons.com> wrote in message
news:sYP0h.13826$DH5.8881@trnddc04...
> Don't agree to what? Sounds like we said the same thing.
>
> tw
>
> Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
>
>> I don't agree at all. I can't think of any that are really beautiful...
>> well maybe one of the big old Wagoneers comes close, but most Jeeps have
>> a solid, no nonsense utilitarian look to them, like a nice hammer does.
>> My little Cherokee isn't beautiful, it isn't cute, but it does have that
>> look.
>>
>> Guess that's one of the things that's bugged me about the Liberty, it
>> doesn't have that look.
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>>
>>> Thomas Waldron wrote:
>>> All Jeeps are ugly. The best we can hope for is 'cute-ugly'. There is
>>> nothing beautiful about a Jeep's appearance. It's a GD utility vehicle!
>>> A Ferrari 308 is beautiful. Personally, I think any change on the Libby
>>> is an improvement. Part of the Commander's ugliness is that it is HUGE
>>> and ugly. This new Libby will be small and ugly and therefore may become
>>> 'cute-ugly'. I dislike it less. :)
>>>
>>> tw
>
>
> --
> __________________________________________________ ___________________
> 2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
>
> "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."
>
> Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940
>
> Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
> A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
> capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
> __________________________________________________ ___________________

billy ray

Had they come out with this new Liberty first I don't think there would have
been as much controversy as it retains most of the classic XJ lines.....

I think what people are/were upset about wasn't that there was a change but
that the change was from a 'Jeep' to a 'girlie-mobile' which was their
intent....

I think they (DC) assumed that the XJ and ZJ people would just slide into
the WJs like nothing else had happened.... after all that was the plan when
the ZJ was introduced a decade and a half ago....

Does DC care about the cadre of 'hard core Jeepers'? Yes, but as we all
know....... the hard core mob is really pretty small and have shown amazing
willingness to adapt to the last 2 generations of change and , in all
likelihood, continue to adapt with the Jeep generations to come.

If DC was just a little bit smarter they would continue to make their
products 'longer, lower, and wider' (i.e Pontiac) to satisfy the pavement
queens and the product liability shysters while making sure the engineers
made the common modifications relatively easy for the owners wanting to do
so.....

It is unrealistic to think that DC will equip all 'Jeeps' with heavy duty
axles but you can market a pickup with the necessary gear and engineer the
parts to be bolt-on swaps.... that also lowers your warehouse inventory and
assures a good supply of ready and affordable replacements.

The same is true of engines....... the 4 liter was a good engine.... almost
revolutionary in its day. A lot of the younger readers here are probably
unaware that when the 4 liter engine was introduced it put out more power
than most of the available V-8s. Even the WJ carrying a thousand pounds
more than the engine was designed for still gives good performance. Will
the world come to an end because the 4 liter is gone...... no, DC has a
whole new series of V-6 engines to come in the next few years according to
allpar that will put the current 1990s engines to shame.

For Jeep to survive they have to grow and growth includes change whether we
like it or not.....


"Thomas Waldron" <thomas@OBVIOUSrubicons.com> wrote in message
news:sYP0h.13826$DH5.8881@trnddc04...
> Don't agree to what? Sounds like we said the same thing.
>
> tw
>
> Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
>
>> I don't agree at all. I can't think of any that are really beautiful...
>> well maybe one of the big old Wagoneers comes close, but most Jeeps have
>> a solid, no nonsense utilitarian look to them, like a nice hammer does.
>> My little Cherokee isn't beautiful, it isn't cute, but it does have that
>> look.
>>
>> Guess that's one of the things that's bugged me about the Liberty, it
>> doesn't have that look.
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>>
>>> Thomas Waldron wrote:
>>> All Jeeps are ugly. The best we can hope for is 'cute-ugly'. There is
>>> nothing beautiful about a Jeep's appearance. It's a GD utility vehicle!
>>> A Ferrari 308 is beautiful. Personally, I think any change on the Libby
>>> is an improvement. Part of the Commander's ugliness is that it is HUGE
>>> and ugly. This new Libby will be small and ugly and therefore may become
>>> 'cute-ugly'. I dislike it less. :)
>>>
>>> tw
>
>
> --
> __________________________________________________ ___________________
> 2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
>
> "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."
>
> Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940
>
> Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
> A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
> capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
> __________________________________________________ ___________________

Jeffrey DeWitt

You said "all Jeeps are ugly", I don't agree.

You want ugly take a look at an Aztec.

Jeff DeWitt

Thomas Waldron wrote:
> Don't agree to what? Sounds like we said the same thing.
>
> tw
>
> Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
>
>> I don't agree at all. I can't think of any that are really
>> beautiful... well maybe one of the big old Wagoneers comes close, but
>> most Jeeps have a solid, no nonsense utilitarian look to them, like a
>> nice hammer does. My little Cherokee isn't beautiful, it isn't cute,
>> but it does have that look.
>>
>> Guess that's one of the things that's bugged me about the Liberty, it
>> doesn't have that look.
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>>
>>> Thomas Waldron wrote:
>>> All Jeeps are ugly. The best we can hope for is 'cute-ugly'. There is
>>> nothing beautiful about a Jeep's appearance. It's a GD utility
>>> vehicle! A Ferrari 308 is beautiful. Personally, I think any change
>>> on the Libby is an improvement. Part of the Commander's ugliness is
>>> that it is HUGE and ugly. This new Libby will be small and ugly and
>>> therefore may become 'cute-ugly'. I dislike it less. :)
>>>
>>> tw
>
>
>

Jeffrey DeWitt

You said "all Jeeps are ugly", I don't agree.

You want ugly take a look at an Aztec.

Jeff DeWitt

Thomas Waldron wrote:
> Don't agree to what? Sounds like we said the same thing.
>
> tw
>
> Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
>
>> I don't agree at all. I can't think of any that are really
>> beautiful... well maybe one of the big old Wagoneers comes close, but
>> most Jeeps have a solid, no nonsense utilitarian look to them, like a
>> nice hammer does. My little Cherokee isn't beautiful, it isn't cute,
>> but it does have that look.
>>
>> Guess that's one of the things that's bugged me about the Liberty, it
>> doesn't have that look.
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>>
>>> Thomas Waldron wrote:
>>> All Jeeps are ugly. The best we can hope for is 'cute-ugly'. There is
>>> nothing beautiful about a Jeep's appearance. It's a GD utility
>>> vehicle! A Ferrari 308 is beautiful. Personally, I think any change
>>> on the Libby is an improvement. Part of the Commander's ugliness is
>>> that it is HUGE and ugly. This new Libby will be small and ugly and
>>> therefore may become 'cute-ugly'. I dislike it less. :)
>>>
>>> tw
>
>
>

Jeffrey DeWitt

You said "all Jeeps are ugly", I don't agree.

You want ugly take a look at an Aztec.

Jeff DeWitt

Thomas Waldron wrote:
> Don't agree to what? Sounds like we said the same thing.
>
> tw
>
> Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
>
>> I don't agree at all. I can't think of any that are really
>> beautiful... well maybe one of the big old Wagoneers comes close, but
>> most Jeeps have a solid, no nonsense utilitarian look to them, like a
>> nice hammer does. My little Cherokee isn't beautiful, it isn't cute,
>> but it does have that look.
>>
>> Guess that's one of the things that's bugged me about the Liberty, it
>> doesn't have that look.
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>>
>>> Thomas Waldron wrote:
>>> All Jeeps are ugly. The best we can hope for is 'cute-ugly'. There is
>>> nothing beautiful about a Jeep's appearance. It's a GD utility
>>> vehicle! A Ferrari 308 is beautiful. Personally, I think any change
>>> on the Libby is an improvement. Part of the Commander's ugliness is
>>> that it is HUGE and ugly. This new Libby will be small and ugly and
>>> therefore may become 'cute-ugly'. I dislike it less. :)
>>>
>>> tw
>
>
>