Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
 

Update -

I tightened the trackbar bolt at the axle to 50 ft-lbs - that made a
difference in the handling, but when I decided to try for 55 ft-lbs,
the bolt broke. Fortunately retrieving the nut from inside the bracket
wasn't too difficult...

The FSM specifies 40 ft-lbs - and it looks like that's about the limit.
Also - all that should be needed with a rubber bushing like that is
enough torque to secure the bolt - the mating of rubber bushing at the
center to bolt should do the rest. Excessive lateral torque would
cause the compressed surface of bolt -> bracket -> surface of bushing
->anterior surface of bushing -> bracket -> nut to bear, which is not
right. Sigh. I should have checked the setting before tightening.

It's possible the bushing is worn, but it doesn't look it. I can get a
replacement bolt tomorrow, tighten it to the 40 ft-lb setting, then see
where we go from there.

--doug

Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
 

All we do is jeep wranglers and have for about 8 years if your stablizer has
less than 10,000 miles on it then you need to look at your tires for
cupping..... we have found that is the tires are not rotated every 3000
miles they will begin to cup and become junk I can be reached at
larry_overman@hotmail.com I will forward a number you can reach me at we can
talk better about the issue if you like.

Larry.



<damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119671515.707633.261390@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> Update -
>
> I tightened the trackbar bolt at the axle to 50 ft-lbs - that made a
> difference in the handling, but when I decided to try for 55 ft-lbs,
> the bolt broke. Fortunately retrieving the nut from inside the bracket
> wasn't too difficult...
>
> The FSM specifies 40 ft-lbs - and it looks like that's about the limit.
> Also - all that should be needed with a rubber bushing like that is
> enough torque to secure the bolt - the mating of rubber bushing at the
> center to bolt should do the rest. Excessive lateral torque would
> cause the compressed surface of bolt -> bracket -> surface of bushing
> ->anterior surface of bushing -> bracket -> nut to bear, which is not
> right. Sigh. I should have checked the setting before tightening.
>
> It's possible the bushing is worn, but it doesn't look it. I can get a
> replacement bolt tomorrow, tighten it to the 40 ft-lb setting, then see
> where we go from there.
>
> --doug
>

Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
 

All we do is jeep wranglers and have for about 8 years if your stablizer has
less than 10,000 miles on it then you need to look at your tires for
cupping..... we have found that is the tires are not rotated every 3000
miles they will begin to cup and become junk I can be reached at
larry_overman@hotmail.com I will forward a number you can reach me at we can
talk better about the issue if you like.

Larry.



<damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119671515.707633.261390@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> Update -
>
> I tightened the trackbar bolt at the axle to 50 ft-lbs - that made a
> difference in the handling, but when I decided to try for 55 ft-lbs,
> the bolt broke. Fortunately retrieving the nut from inside the bracket
> wasn't too difficult...
>
> The FSM specifies 40 ft-lbs - and it looks like that's about the limit.
> Also - all that should be needed with a rubber bushing like that is
> enough torque to secure the bolt - the mating of rubber bushing at the
> center to bolt should do the rest. Excessive lateral torque would
> cause the compressed surface of bolt -> bracket -> surface of bushing
> ->anterior surface of bushing -> bracket -> nut to bear, which is not
> right. Sigh. I should have checked the setting before tightening.
>
> It's possible the bushing is worn, but it doesn't look it. I can get a
> replacement bolt tomorrow, tighten it to the 40 ft-lb setting, then see
> where we go from there.
>
> --doug
>

Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
 

All we do is jeep wranglers and have for about 8 years if your stablizer has
less than 10,000 miles on it then you need to look at your tires for
cupping..... we have found that is the tires are not rotated every 3000
miles they will begin to cup and become junk I can be reached at
larry_overman@hotmail.com I will forward a number you can reach me at we can
talk better about the issue if you like.

Larry.



<damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119671515.707633.261390@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> Update -
>
> I tightened the trackbar bolt at the axle to 50 ft-lbs - that made a
> difference in the handling, but when I decided to try for 55 ft-lbs,
> the bolt broke. Fortunately retrieving the nut from inside the bracket
> wasn't too difficult...
>
> The FSM specifies 40 ft-lbs - and it looks like that's about the limit.
> Also - all that should be needed with a rubber bushing like that is
> enough torque to secure the bolt - the mating of rubber bushing at the
> center to bolt should do the rest. Excessive lateral torque would
> cause the compressed surface of bolt -> bracket -> surface of bushing
> ->anterior surface of bushing -> bracket -> nut to bear, which is not
> right. Sigh. I should have checked the setting before tightening.
>
> It's possible the bushing is worn, but it doesn't look it. I can get a
> replacement bolt tomorrow, tighten it to the 40 ft-lb setting, then see
> where we go from there.
>
> --doug
>

Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
 

All we do is jeep wranglers and have for about 8 years if your stablizer has
less than 10,000 miles on it then you need to look at your tires for
cupping..... we have found that is the tires are not rotated every 3000
miles they will begin to cup and become junk I can be reached at
larry_overman@hotmail.com I will forward a number you can reach me at we can
talk better about the issue if you like.

Larry.



<damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119671515.707633.261390@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> Update -
>
> I tightened the trackbar bolt at the axle to 50 ft-lbs - that made a
> difference in the handling, but when I decided to try for 55 ft-lbs,
> the bolt broke. Fortunately retrieving the nut from inside the bracket
> wasn't too difficult...
>
> The FSM specifies 40 ft-lbs - and it looks like that's about the limit.
> Also - all that should be needed with a rubber bushing like that is
> enough torque to secure the bolt - the mating of rubber bushing at the
> center to bolt should do the rest. Excessive lateral torque would
> cause the compressed surface of bolt -> bracket -> surface of bushing
> ->anterior surface of bushing -> bracket -> nut to bear, which is not
> right. Sigh. I should have checked the setting before tightening.
>
> It's possible the bushing is worn, but it doesn't look it. I can get a
> replacement bolt tomorrow, tighten it to the 40 ft-lb setting, then see
> where we go from there.
>
> --doug
>

Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
 

I second that. I had a worn ball joint where the trackbar mounts to the
frame. A new adjustable trackbar fixed the problem.
Regards,

Guri Sandhu
98TJ

Jerry Bransford wrote:
> DW is caused by a combination of things and is actually a problem with
> vehicles besides the Jeep too. It is normally 'triggered' by either a
> sharp impact, jolt, out of balance tire, or out of round/bent wheel.
> One of those usually triggers it. Then what often lets it fully develop
> into true Death Wobble is something loose in the front end. The most
> common cause is the lower mounting bolt holding the trackbar to the axle
> is too loose. It won't SEEM loose if you grab it and try to move it but
> that doesn't mean it's not loose enough to allow DW to develop. To make
> sure, tighten that bolt to 55 ft-lbs.
>
> Then loose ball joints, bad bushings, even a bad (loose) hub can allow
> it to develop. Sometimes even the toe-in can be off enough to encourage
> DW. But tire balance and a loose trackbar mounting bolt is the
> combination that seems to be the most common cause. The tire cannot be
> balanced to just "good enough" when this problem happens, the front
> tires must be 'perfectly' balanced.
>
> The steering stabilizer, if bad, can seem to "cause" death wobble but
> even when bad, it's never actually the root cause of DW, it just keeps
> it at bay when it's in good condition.
>
> Good luck, this problem is fixable. My TJ had SEVERE Death Wobble 5-6
> years ago for about a month until I was able to figure out the cause
> (tire balance and loose trackbar mounting bolt). I haven't had DW since.
>
> Jerry
>
> Steve wrote:
> > I've just encountered DW in the last couple weeks. Now I'm ever conscious
> > of my steering and any and all bumps I'm hitting. Of course everything
> > seems bigger than what I thought of it before the DW.
> >
> > Both my "events" occured while going at a good clip down some rather bumpy
> > roads....then all of a sudden I could feel the oscillation start and then
> > both front wheels were just dancing to their own tunes and I had to slow
> > down to 20kph to get them settled!
> >
> > Anyhow, my steering dampener seems to be leaky....but not sure if it's that
> > or the dirted oil the 'tards at Cantire spilled over my engine! Hosers!
> >
> > Anyways, I'm looking in to see if this job is over my head or not. I've got
> > some half decent mechanical skills but haven't dealth with tie-rods or
> > bushings or such....
> > I've got my service manual....so some clues on what to do...just don't have
> > the tools (yet ;)
> >
> > looking forward to see what you find out!
> >
> > <damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1119566876.890606.147930@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> >>Doug -
> >>
> >>Thanks. That sounds straightforward. Front and rear shocks
> >>replacement or just front?
> >>
> >>Any recommendation on (highway) shocks and stabilizers to use for
> >>replacement? I drive mostly highway (daily driver).
> >>
> >>SO - to summarize so far:
> >>
> >>- I'll jack up the vehicle tonight (maybe tomorrow, worst case
> >>Saturday...) and look at wear and play where there shouldn't be such.
> >>Especially track bar and stabilizer shock... I'm scheduling the dealer
> >>for next week.
> >>
> >>- I'll find replacement shocks and stabilizer shock, and get wheels
> >>balanced and alignment checked, while having the dealer check for any
> >>specific problem just for laughs, while he replaces the fan switch or
> >>fan switch relay under warrantee...
> >>
> >>- I'll check if the wheel balance and alignment changed or eliminated
> >>the problem - I'll still plan on replacing the shocks and stabilizer
> >>soon in any case, but sooner if the problem persists.
> >>
> >>- I'll post what the dealer finds, and the results of fixing just the
> >>balance and alignment at this point, then follow up with the result of
> >>changing the shocks and stabilizers.
> >>
> >>That's what I see so far.
> >>--doug
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
 

I second that. I had a worn ball joint where the trackbar mounts to the
frame. A new adjustable trackbar fixed the problem.
Regards,

Guri Sandhu
98TJ

Jerry Bransford wrote:
> DW is caused by a combination of things and is actually a problem with
> vehicles besides the Jeep too. It is normally 'triggered' by either a
> sharp impact, jolt, out of balance tire, or out of round/bent wheel.
> One of those usually triggers it. Then what often lets it fully develop
> into true Death Wobble is something loose in the front end. The most
> common cause is the lower mounting bolt holding the trackbar to the axle
> is too loose. It won't SEEM loose if you grab it and try to move it but
> that doesn't mean it's not loose enough to allow DW to develop. To make
> sure, tighten that bolt to 55 ft-lbs.
>
> Then loose ball joints, bad bushings, even a bad (loose) hub can allow
> it to develop. Sometimes even the toe-in can be off enough to encourage
> DW. But tire balance and a loose trackbar mounting bolt is the
> combination that seems to be the most common cause. The tire cannot be
> balanced to just "good enough" when this problem happens, the front
> tires must be 'perfectly' balanced.
>
> The steering stabilizer, if bad, can seem to "cause" death wobble but
> even when bad, it's never actually the root cause of DW, it just keeps
> it at bay when it's in good condition.
>
> Good luck, this problem is fixable. My TJ had SEVERE Death Wobble 5-6
> years ago for about a month until I was able to figure out the cause
> (tire balance and loose trackbar mounting bolt). I haven't had DW since.
>
> Jerry
>
> Steve wrote:
> > I've just encountered DW in the last couple weeks. Now I'm ever conscious
> > of my steering and any and all bumps I'm hitting. Of course everything
> > seems bigger than what I thought of it before the DW.
> >
> > Both my "events" occured while going at a good clip down some rather bumpy
> > roads....then all of a sudden I could feel the oscillation start and then
> > both front wheels were just dancing to their own tunes and I had to slow
> > down to 20kph to get them settled!
> >
> > Anyhow, my steering dampener seems to be leaky....but not sure if it's that
> > or the dirted oil the 'tards at Cantire spilled over my engine! Hosers!
> >
> > Anyways, I'm looking in to see if this job is over my head or not. I've got
> > some half decent mechanical skills but haven't dealth with tie-rods or
> > bushings or such....
> > I've got my service manual....so some clues on what to do...just don't have
> > the tools (yet ;)
> >
> > looking forward to see what you find out!
> >
> > <damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1119566876.890606.147930@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> >>Doug -
> >>
> >>Thanks. That sounds straightforward. Front and rear shocks
> >>replacement or just front?
> >>
> >>Any recommendation on (highway) shocks and stabilizers to use for
> >>replacement? I drive mostly highway (daily driver).
> >>
> >>SO - to summarize so far:
> >>
> >>- I'll jack up the vehicle tonight (maybe tomorrow, worst case
> >>Saturday...) and look at wear and play where there shouldn't be such.
> >>Especially track bar and stabilizer shock... I'm scheduling the dealer
> >>for next week.
> >>
> >>- I'll find replacement shocks and stabilizer shock, and get wheels
> >>balanced and alignment checked, while having the dealer check for any
> >>specific problem just for laughs, while he replaces the fan switch or
> >>fan switch relay under warrantee...
> >>
> >>- I'll check if the wheel balance and alignment changed or eliminated
> >>the problem - I'll still plan on replacing the shocks and stabilizer
> >>soon in any case, but sooner if the problem persists.
> >>
> >>- I'll post what the dealer finds, and the results of fixing just the
> >>balance and alignment at this point, then follow up with the result of
> >>changing the shocks and stabilizers.
> >>
> >>That's what I see so far.
> >>--doug
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
 

I second that. I had a worn ball joint where the trackbar mounts to the
frame. A new adjustable trackbar fixed the problem.
Regards,

Guri Sandhu
98TJ

Jerry Bransford wrote:
> DW is caused by a combination of things and is actually a problem with
> vehicles besides the Jeep too. It is normally 'triggered' by either a
> sharp impact, jolt, out of balance tire, or out of round/bent wheel.
> One of those usually triggers it. Then what often lets it fully develop
> into true Death Wobble is something loose in the front end. The most
> common cause is the lower mounting bolt holding the trackbar to the axle
> is too loose. It won't SEEM loose if you grab it and try to move it but
> that doesn't mean it's not loose enough to allow DW to develop. To make
> sure, tighten that bolt to 55 ft-lbs.
>
> Then loose ball joints, bad bushings, even a bad (loose) hub can allow
> it to develop. Sometimes even the toe-in can be off enough to encourage
> DW. But tire balance and a loose trackbar mounting bolt is the
> combination that seems to be the most common cause. The tire cannot be
> balanced to just "good enough" when this problem happens, the front
> tires must be 'perfectly' balanced.
>
> The steering stabilizer, if bad, can seem to "cause" death wobble but
> even when bad, it's never actually the root cause of DW, it just keeps
> it at bay when it's in good condition.
>
> Good luck, this problem is fixable. My TJ had SEVERE Death Wobble 5-6
> years ago for about a month until I was able to figure out the cause
> (tire balance and loose trackbar mounting bolt). I haven't had DW since.
>
> Jerry
>
> Steve wrote:
> > I've just encountered DW in the last couple weeks. Now I'm ever conscious
> > of my steering and any and all bumps I'm hitting. Of course everything
> > seems bigger than what I thought of it before the DW.
> >
> > Both my "events" occured while going at a good clip down some rather bumpy
> > roads....then all of a sudden I could feel the oscillation start and then
> > both front wheels were just dancing to their own tunes and I had to slow
> > down to 20kph to get them settled!
> >
> > Anyhow, my steering dampener seems to be leaky....but not sure if it's that
> > or the dirted oil the 'tards at Cantire spilled over my engine! Hosers!
> >
> > Anyways, I'm looking in to see if this job is over my head or not. I've got
> > some half decent mechanical skills but haven't dealth with tie-rods or
> > bushings or such....
> > I've got my service manual....so some clues on what to do...just don't have
> > the tools (yet ;)
> >
> > looking forward to see what you find out!
> >
> > <damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1119566876.890606.147930@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> >>Doug -
> >>
> >>Thanks. That sounds straightforward. Front and rear shocks
> >>replacement or just front?
> >>
> >>Any recommendation on (highway) shocks and stabilizers to use for
> >>replacement? I drive mostly highway (daily driver).
> >>
> >>SO - to summarize so far:
> >>
> >>- I'll jack up the vehicle tonight (maybe tomorrow, worst case
> >>Saturday...) and look at wear and play where there shouldn't be such.
> >>Especially track bar and stabilizer shock... I'm scheduling the dealer
> >>for next week.
> >>
> >>- I'll find replacement shocks and stabilizer shock, and get wheels
> >>balanced and alignment checked, while having the dealer check for any
> >>specific problem just for laughs, while he replaces the fan switch or
> >>fan switch relay under warrantee...
> >>
> >>- I'll check if the wheel balance and alignment changed or eliminated
> >>the problem - I'll still plan on replacing the shocks and stabilizer
> >>soon in any case, but sooner if the problem persists.
> >>
> >>- I'll post what the dealer finds, and the results of fixing just the
> >>balance and alignment at this point, then follow up with the result of
> >>changing the shocks and stabilizers.
> >>
> >>That's what I see so far.
> >>--doug
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
 

I second that. I had a worn ball joint where the trackbar mounts to the
frame. A new adjustable trackbar fixed the problem.
Regards,

Guri Sandhu
98TJ

Jerry Bransford wrote:
> DW is caused by a combination of things and is actually a problem with
> vehicles besides the Jeep too. It is normally 'triggered' by either a
> sharp impact, jolt, out of balance tire, or out of round/bent wheel.
> One of those usually triggers it. Then what often lets it fully develop
> into true Death Wobble is something loose in the front end. The most
> common cause is the lower mounting bolt holding the trackbar to the axle
> is too loose. It won't SEEM loose if you grab it and try to move it but
> that doesn't mean it's not loose enough to allow DW to develop. To make
> sure, tighten that bolt to 55 ft-lbs.
>
> Then loose ball joints, bad bushings, even a bad (loose) hub can allow
> it to develop. Sometimes even the toe-in can be off enough to encourage
> DW. But tire balance and a loose trackbar mounting bolt is the
> combination that seems to be the most common cause. The tire cannot be
> balanced to just "good enough" when this problem happens, the front
> tires must be 'perfectly' balanced.
>
> The steering stabilizer, if bad, can seem to "cause" death wobble but
> even when bad, it's never actually the root cause of DW, it just keeps
> it at bay when it's in good condition.
>
> Good luck, this problem is fixable. My TJ had SEVERE Death Wobble 5-6
> years ago for about a month until I was able to figure out the cause
> (tire balance and loose trackbar mounting bolt). I haven't had DW since.
>
> Jerry
>
> Steve wrote:
> > I've just encountered DW in the last couple weeks. Now I'm ever conscious
> > of my steering and any and all bumps I'm hitting. Of course everything
> > seems bigger than what I thought of it before the DW.
> >
> > Both my "events" occured while going at a good clip down some rather bumpy
> > roads....then all of a sudden I could feel the oscillation start and then
> > both front wheels were just dancing to their own tunes and I had to slow
> > down to 20kph to get them settled!
> >
> > Anyhow, my steering dampener seems to be leaky....but not sure if it's that
> > or the dirted oil the 'tards at Cantire spilled over my engine! Hosers!
> >
> > Anyways, I'm looking in to see if this job is over my head or not. I've got
> > some half decent mechanical skills but haven't dealth with tie-rods or
> > bushings or such....
> > I've got my service manual....so some clues on what to do...just don't have
> > the tools (yet ;)
> >
> > looking forward to see what you find out!
> >
> > <damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1119566876.890606.147930@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> >>Doug -
> >>
> >>Thanks. That sounds straightforward. Front and rear shocks
> >>replacement or just front?
> >>
> >>Any recommendation on (highway) shocks and stabilizers to use for
> >>replacement? I drive mostly highway (daily driver).
> >>
> >>SO - to summarize so far:
> >>
> >>- I'll jack up the vehicle tonight (maybe tomorrow, worst case
> >>Saturday...) and look at wear and play where there shouldn't be such.
> >>Especially track bar and stabilizer shock... I'm scheduling the dealer
> >>for next week.
> >>
> >>- I'll find replacement shocks and stabilizer shock, and get wheels
> >>balanced and alignment checked, while having the dealer check for any
> >>specific problem just for laughs, while he replaces the fan switch or
> >>fan switch relay under warrantee...
> >>
> >>- I'll check if the wheel balance and alignment changed or eliminated
> >>the problem - I'll still plan on replacing the shocks and stabilizer
> >>soon in any case, but sooner if the problem persists.
> >>
> >>- I'll post what the dealer finds, and the results of fixing just the
> >>balance and alignment at this point, then follow up with the result of
> >>changing the shocks and stabilizers.
> >>
> >>That's what I see so far.
> >>--doug
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
 

Or maybe, do like the Real Jeeps and use a heavier tie rod, too:
http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/ste...od640480_5.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

extremetjs wrote:
>
> All we do is jeep wranglers and have for about 8 years if your stablizer has
> less than 10,000 miles on it then you need to look at your tires for
> cupping..... we have found that is the tires are not rotated every 3000
> miles they will begin to cup and become junk I can be reached at
> larry_overman@hotmail.com I will forward a number you can reach me at we can
> talk better about the issue if you like.
>
> Larry.