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Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
I had an 03' Jeep Wrangler X that started with the DW's at around
35k and my first encounter was on the highway in rush hour traffic at around 50mph. I discovered that if I accelerated rapidly through 50mph to 60 or higher, it was not much of a problem. But in traffic if I had to enter the 50mph mark slowly then I was done for. The stealership could not find anything wrong with the vehicle, other than to tell me that I had to rotate my tires every 3,000 miles. I was running Goodyear MTR's and at 45k those tires were toast. So I switched to a street tire (BFG radial long trail T/A)and have never had a problem since, the car runs so smooth that its hard to believe your actually in a Jeep. Of course I know that those street tires made me look like a wimp. But with all the highway mileage I was putting on that car I had no choice. My current vehicle is a Jeep Rubicon and it also has MTR's so I'm waiting for the DW's to begin soon. David KORL PP-ASEL |
Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
DW is caused by a combination of things and is actually a problem with
vehicles besides the Jeep too. It is normally 'triggered' by either a sharp impact, jolt, out of balance tire, or out of round/bent wheel. One of those usually triggers it. Then what often lets it fully develop into true Death Wobble is something loose in the front end. The most common cause is the lower mounting bolt holding the trackbar to the axle is too loose. It won't SEEM loose if you grab it and try to move it but that doesn't mean it's not loose enough to allow DW to develop. To make sure, tighten that bolt to 55 ft-lbs. Then loose ball joints, bad bushings, even a bad (loose) hub can allow it to develop. Sometimes even the toe-in can be off enough to encourage DW. But tire balance and a loose trackbar mounting bolt is the combination that seems to be the most common cause. The tire cannot be balanced to just "good enough" when this problem happens, the front tires must be 'perfectly' balanced. The steering stabilizer, if bad, can seem to "cause" death wobble but even when bad, it's never actually the root cause of DW, it just keeps it at bay when it's in good condition. Good luck, this problem is fixable. My TJ had SEVERE Death Wobble 5-6 years ago for about a month until I was able to figure out the cause (tire balance and loose trackbar mounting bolt). I haven't had DW since. Jerry Steve wrote: > I've just encountered DW in the last couple weeks. Now I'm ever conscious > of my steering and any and all bumps I'm hitting. Of course everything > seems bigger than what I thought of it before the DW. > > Both my "events" occured while going at a good clip down some rather bumpy > roads....then all of a sudden I could feel the oscillation start and then > both front wheels were just dancing to their own tunes and I had to slow > down to 20kph to get them settled! > > Anyhow, my steering dampener seems to be leaky....but not sure if it's that > or the dirted oil the 'tards at Cantire spilled over my engine! Hosers! > > Anyways, I'm looking in to see if this job is over my head or not. I've got > some half decent mechanical skills but haven't dealth with tie-rods or > bushings or such.... > I've got my service manual....so some clues on what to do...just don't have > the tools (yet ;) > > looking forward to see what you find out! > > <damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1119566876.890606.147930@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com... > >>Doug - >> >>Thanks. That sounds straightforward. Front and rear shocks >>replacement or just front? >> >>Any recommendation on (highway) shocks and stabilizers to use for >>replacement? I drive mostly highway (daily driver). >> >>SO - to summarize so far: >> >>- I'll jack up the vehicle tonight (maybe tomorrow, worst case >>Saturday...) and look at wear and play where there shouldn't be such. >>Especially track bar and stabilizer shock... I'm scheduling the dealer >>for next week. >> >>- I'll find replacement shocks and stabilizer shock, and get wheels >>balanced and alignment checked, while having the dealer check for any >>specific problem just for laughs, while he replaces the fan switch or >>fan switch relay under warrantee... >> >>- I'll check if the wheel balance and alignment changed or eliminated >>the problem - I'll still plan on replacing the shocks and stabilizer >>soon in any case, but sooner if the problem persists. >> >>- I'll post what the dealer finds, and the results of fixing just the >>balance and alignment at this point, then follow up with the result of >>changing the shocks and stabilizers. >> >>That's what I see so far. >>--doug >> > > > -- Jerry Bransford PP-ASEL N6TAY See the Geezer Jeep at http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ |
Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
DW is caused by a combination of things and is actually a problem with
vehicles besides the Jeep too. It is normally 'triggered' by either a sharp impact, jolt, out of balance tire, or out of round/bent wheel. One of those usually triggers it. Then what often lets it fully develop into true Death Wobble is something loose in the front end. The most common cause is the lower mounting bolt holding the trackbar to the axle is too loose. It won't SEEM loose if you grab it and try to move it but that doesn't mean it's not loose enough to allow DW to develop. To make sure, tighten that bolt to 55 ft-lbs. Then loose ball joints, bad bushings, even a bad (loose) hub can allow it to develop. Sometimes even the toe-in can be off enough to encourage DW. But tire balance and a loose trackbar mounting bolt is the combination that seems to be the most common cause. The tire cannot be balanced to just "good enough" when this problem happens, the front tires must be 'perfectly' balanced. The steering stabilizer, if bad, can seem to "cause" death wobble but even when bad, it's never actually the root cause of DW, it just keeps it at bay when it's in good condition. Good luck, this problem is fixable. My TJ had SEVERE Death Wobble 5-6 years ago for about a month until I was able to figure out the cause (tire balance and loose trackbar mounting bolt). I haven't had DW since. Jerry Steve wrote: > I've just encountered DW in the last couple weeks. Now I'm ever conscious > of my steering and any and all bumps I'm hitting. Of course everything > seems bigger than what I thought of it before the DW. > > Both my "events" occured while going at a good clip down some rather bumpy > roads....then all of a sudden I could feel the oscillation start and then > both front wheels were just dancing to their own tunes and I had to slow > down to 20kph to get them settled! > > Anyhow, my steering dampener seems to be leaky....but not sure if it's that > or the dirted oil the 'tards at Cantire spilled over my engine! Hosers! > > Anyways, I'm looking in to see if this job is over my head or not. I've got > some half decent mechanical skills but haven't dealth with tie-rods or > bushings or such.... > I've got my service manual....so some clues on what to do...just don't have > the tools (yet ;) > > looking forward to see what you find out! > > <damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1119566876.890606.147930@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com... > >>Doug - >> >>Thanks. That sounds straightforward. Front and rear shocks >>replacement or just front? >> >>Any recommendation on (highway) shocks and stabilizers to use for >>replacement? I drive mostly highway (daily driver). >> >>SO - to summarize so far: >> >>- I'll jack up the vehicle tonight (maybe tomorrow, worst case >>Saturday...) and look at wear and play where there shouldn't be such. >>Especially track bar and stabilizer shock... I'm scheduling the dealer >>for next week. >> >>- I'll find replacement shocks and stabilizer shock, and get wheels >>balanced and alignment checked, while having the dealer check for any >>specific problem just for laughs, while he replaces the fan switch or >>fan switch relay under warrantee... >> >>- I'll check if the wheel balance and alignment changed or eliminated >>the problem - I'll still plan on replacing the shocks and stabilizer >>soon in any case, but sooner if the problem persists. >> >>- I'll post what the dealer finds, and the results of fixing just the >>balance and alignment at this point, then follow up with the result of >>changing the shocks and stabilizers. >> >>That's what I see so far. >>--doug >> > > > -- Jerry Bransford PP-ASEL N6TAY See the Geezer Jeep at http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ |
Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
DW is caused by a combination of things and is actually a problem with
vehicles besides the Jeep too. It is normally 'triggered' by either a sharp impact, jolt, out of balance tire, or out of round/bent wheel. One of those usually triggers it. Then what often lets it fully develop into true Death Wobble is something loose in the front end. The most common cause is the lower mounting bolt holding the trackbar to the axle is too loose. It won't SEEM loose if you grab it and try to move it but that doesn't mean it's not loose enough to allow DW to develop. To make sure, tighten that bolt to 55 ft-lbs. Then loose ball joints, bad bushings, even a bad (loose) hub can allow it to develop. Sometimes even the toe-in can be off enough to encourage DW. But tire balance and a loose trackbar mounting bolt is the combination that seems to be the most common cause. The tire cannot be balanced to just "good enough" when this problem happens, the front tires must be 'perfectly' balanced. The steering stabilizer, if bad, can seem to "cause" death wobble but even when bad, it's never actually the root cause of DW, it just keeps it at bay when it's in good condition. Good luck, this problem is fixable. My TJ had SEVERE Death Wobble 5-6 years ago for about a month until I was able to figure out the cause (tire balance and loose trackbar mounting bolt). I haven't had DW since. Jerry Steve wrote: > I've just encountered DW in the last couple weeks. Now I'm ever conscious > of my steering and any and all bumps I'm hitting. Of course everything > seems bigger than what I thought of it before the DW. > > Both my "events" occured while going at a good clip down some rather bumpy > roads....then all of a sudden I could feel the oscillation start and then > both front wheels were just dancing to their own tunes and I had to slow > down to 20kph to get them settled! > > Anyhow, my steering dampener seems to be leaky....but not sure if it's that > or the dirted oil the 'tards at Cantire spilled over my engine! Hosers! > > Anyways, I'm looking in to see if this job is over my head or not. I've got > some half decent mechanical skills but haven't dealth with tie-rods or > bushings or such.... > I've got my service manual....so some clues on what to do...just don't have > the tools (yet ;) > > looking forward to see what you find out! > > <damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1119566876.890606.147930@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com... > >>Doug - >> >>Thanks. That sounds straightforward. Front and rear shocks >>replacement or just front? >> >>Any recommendation on (highway) shocks and stabilizers to use for >>replacement? I drive mostly highway (daily driver). >> >>SO - to summarize so far: >> >>- I'll jack up the vehicle tonight (maybe tomorrow, worst case >>Saturday...) and look at wear and play where there shouldn't be such. >>Especially track bar and stabilizer shock... I'm scheduling the dealer >>for next week. >> >>- I'll find replacement shocks and stabilizer shock, and get wheels >>balanced and alignment checked, while having the dealer check for any >>specific problem just for laughs, while he replaces the fan switch or >>fan switch relay under warrantee... >> >>- I'll check if the wheel balance and alignment changed or eliminated >>the problem - I'll still plan on replacing the shocks and stabilizer >>soon in any case, but sooner if the problem persists. >> >>- I'll post what the dealer finds, and the results of fixing just the >>balance and alignment at this point, then follow up with the result of >>changing the shocks and stabilizers. >> >>That's what I see so far. >>--doug >> > > > -- Jerry Bransford PP-ASEL N6TAY See the Geezer Jeep at http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ |
Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
DW is caused by a combination of things and is actually a problem with
vehicles besides the Jeep too. It is normally 'triggered' by either a sharp impact, jolt, out of balance tire, or out of round/bent wheel. One of those usually triggers it. Then what often lets it fully develop into true Death Wobble is something loose in the front end. The most common cause is the lower mounting bolt holding the trackbar to the axle is too loose. It won't SEEM loose if you grab it and try to move it but that doesn't mean it's not loose enough to allow DW to develop. To make sure, tighten that bolt to 55 ft-lbs. Then loose ball joints, bad bushings, even a bad (loose) hub can allow it to develop. Sometimes even the toe-in can be off enough to encourage DW. But tire balance and a loose trackbar mounting bolt is the combination that seems to be the most common cause. The tire cannot be balanced to just "good enough" when this problem happens, the front tires must be 'perfectly' balanced. The steering stabilizer, if bad, can seem to "cause" death wobble but even when bad, it's never actually the root cause of DW, it just keeps it at bay when it's in good condition. Good luck, this problem is fixable. My TJ had SEVERE Death Wobble 5-6 years ago for about a month until I was able to figure out the cause (tire balance and loose trackbar mounting bolt). I haven't had DW since. Jerry Steve wrote: > I've just encountered DW in the last couple weeks. Now I'm ever conscious > of my steering and any and all bumps I'm hitting. Of course everything > seems bigger than what I thought of it before the DW. > > Both my "events" occured while going at a good clip down some rather bumpy > roads....then all of a sudden I could feel the oscillation start and then > both front wheels were just dancing to their own tunes and I had to slow > down to 20kph to get them settled! > > Anyhow, my steering dampener seems to be leaky....but not sure if it's that > or the dirted oil the 'tards at Cantire spilled over my engine! Hosers! > > Anyways, I'm looking in to see if this job is over my head or not. I've got > some half decent mechanical skills but haven't dealth with tie-rods or > bushings or such.... > I've got my service manual....so some clues on what to do...just don't have > the tools (yet ;) > > looking forward to see what you find out! > > <damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1119566876.890606.147930@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com... > >>Doug - >> >>Thanks. That sounds straightforward. Front and rear shocks >>replacement or just front? >> >>Any recommendation on (highway) shocks and stabilizers to use for >>replacement? I drive mostly highway (daily driver). >> >>SO - to summarize so far: >> >>- I'll jack up the vehicle tonight (maybe tomorrow, worst case >>Saturday...) and look at wear and play where there shouldn't be such. >>Especially track bar and stabilizer shock... I'm scheduling the dealer >>for next week. >> >>- I'll find replacement shocks and stabilizer shock, and get wheels >>balanced and alignment checked, while having the dealer check for any >>specific problem just for laughs, while he replaces the fan switch or >>fan switch relay under warrantee... >> >>- I'll check if the wheel balance and alignment changed or eliminated >>the problem - I'll still plan on replacing the shocks and stabilizer >>soon in any case, but sooner if the problem persists. >> >>- I'll post what the dealer finds, and the results of fixing just the >>balance and alignment at this point, then follow up with the result of >>changing the shocks and stabilizers. >> >>That's what I see so far. >>--doug >> > > > -- Jerry Bransford PP-ASEL N6TAY See the Geezer Jeep at http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ |
Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
tires are out of round you need new ones!
<damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1119564366.705721.230910@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com... > OK - the vehicle is a 2004 TJ Sport, 4 wheel discs, limited slip Dana > 44 Rear, aluminum wheels. 30,100 miles, I've had it since new. Great > car in every way. I don't offroad it yet, I just drive it in snow and > adverse weather conditions. > > Recently, though, if I drive along and hit a particular type of bump, > usually a manhole cover sunk down into the asphault, and with one > wheel, usually the driver's side front, a wobble starts in that wheel, > travels up the steering column and into the steering wheel and won't > let go until it either dies out on its own, or maybe I change the > position of the steering wheel and it damps out, or I brake and slow > down. It persists for 2 to 6 seconds, and is quite startling. Not > something the vehicle has done in the past, ever. It does seem to be > getting worse over the last three weeks. It does not do it at all much > of the time. > > A quick look under doesn't show anything obviously loose or leaking, > and pulling at the tire and wheels and steering while they are on the > ground doesn't seem to show any obvious play. > > The car is under extended warranty. > > My questions are: > > (1) This sure sounds an awful lot like the usual death wobble, but at > 30,000 miles? Is this normal Jeep steering behavior for this mileage? > I've done regular maintenance at the hard use interval, including > lubing the front suspension and steering every 4000 miles, so it > shouldn't be neglect... The tires are due for balance and rotate, and > I've never had it aligned. But it's driven on-road. > > (2)Any suggestions on what to look at and wiggle and test to locate > where the problem is and what to replace? I'd like if possible to be > able to pinpoint enough of a problem to get a dealer to actually fix > it, if possible. I'm thinking it has to be the stabilizer shock, I'm > thinking get the wheels off the ground and move them, looking for play > in the tie rod ends and for resistance in the stabilizer shock. Any > specifics on what to look at to pinpoint the error would be much > appreciated. > > This news group, by the way has been fantastic to read over the last > year and a half. I've learned a tremendous amount - like my fan switch > stopped working at low, and I don't need to mention that as an issue > because I already know that they burn out regularly in one setting... > That'll be fixed on this trip in as well. > |
Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
tires are out of round you need new ones!
<damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1119564366.705721.230910@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com... > OK - the vehicle is a 2004 TJ Sport, 4 wheel discs, limited slip Dana > 44 Rear, aluminum wheels. 30,100 miles, I've had it since new. Great > car in every way. I don't offroad it yet, I just drive it in snow and > adverse weather conditions. > > Recently, though, if I drive along and hit a particular type of bump, > usually a manhole cover sunk down into the asphault, and with one > wheel, usually the driver's side front, a wobble starts in that wheel, > travels up the steering column and into the steering wheel and won't > let go until it either dies out on its own, or maybe I change the > position of the steering wheel and it damps out, or I brake and slow > down. It persists for 2 to 6 seconds, and is quite startling. Not > something the vehicle has done in the past, ever. It does seem to be > getting worse over the last three weeks. It does not do it at all much > of the time. > > A quick look under doesn't show anything obviously loose or leaking, > and pulling at the tire and wheels and steering while they are on the > ground doesn't seem to show any obvious play. > > The car is under extended warranty. > > My questions are: > > (1) This sure sounds an awful lot like the usual death wobble, but at > 30,000 miles? Is this normal Jeep steering behavior for this mileage? > I've done regular maintenance at the hard use interval, including > lubing the front suspension and steering every 4000 miles, so it > shouldn't be neglect... The tires are due for balance and rotate, and > I've never had it aligned. But it's driven on-road. > > (2)Any suggestions on what to look at and wiggle and test to locate > where the problem is and what to replace? I'd like if possible to be > able to pinpoint enough of a problem to get a dealer to actually fix > it, if possible. I'm thinking it has to be the stabilizer shock, I'm > thinking get the wheels off the ground and move them, looking for play > in the tie rod ends and for resistance in the stabilizer shock. Any > specifics on what to look at to pinpoint the error would be much > appreciated. > > This news group, by the way has been fantastic to read over the last > year and a half. I've learned a tremendous amount - like my fan switch > stopped working at low, and I don't need to mention that as an issue > because I already know that they burn out regularly in one setting... > That'll be fixed on this trip in as well. > |
Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
tires are out of round you need new ones!
<damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1119564366.705721.230910@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com... > OK - the vehicle is a 2004 TJ Sport, 4 wheel discs, limited slip Dana > 44 Rear, aluminum wheels. 30,100 miles, I've had it since new. Great > car in every way. I don't offroad it yet, I just drive it in snow and > adverse weather conditions. > > Recently, though, if I drive along and hit a particular type of bump, > usually a manhole cover sunk down into the asphault, and with one > wheel, usually the driver's side front, a wobble starts in that wheel, > travels up the steering column and into the steering wheel and won't > let go until it either dies out on its own, or maybe I change the > position of the steering wheel and it damps out, or I brake and slow > down. It persists for 2 to 6 seconds, and is quite startling. Not > something the vehicle has done in the past, ever. It does seem to be > getting worse over the last three weeks. It does not do it at all much > of the time. > > A quick look under doesn't show anything obviously loose or leaking, > and pulling at the tire and wheels and steering while they are on the > ground doesn't seem to show any obvious play. > > The car is under extended warranty. > > My questions are: > > (1) This sure sounds an awful lot like the usual death wobble, but at > 30,000 miles? Is this normal Jeep steering behavior for this mileage? > I've done regular maintenance at the hard use interval, including > lubing the front suspension and steering every 4000 miles, so it > shouldn't be neglect... The tires are due for balance and rotate, and > I've never had it aligned. But it's driven on-road. > > (2)Any suggestions on what to look at and wiggle and test to locate > where the problem is and what to replace? I'd like if possible to be > able to pinpoint enough of a problem to get a dealer to actually fix > it, if possible. I'm thinking it has to be the stabilizer shock, I'm > thinking get the wheels off the ground and move them, looking for play > in the tie rod ends and for resistance in the stabilizer shock. Any > specifics on what to look at to pinpoint the error would be much > appreciated. > > This news group, by the way has been fantastic to read over the last > year and a half. I've learned a tremendous amount - like my fan switch > stopped working at low, and I don't need to mention that as an issue > because I already know that they burn out regularly in one setting... > That'll be fixed on this trip in as well. > |
Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
tires are out of round you need new ones!
<damgoodespresso@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1119564366.705721.230910@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com... > OK - the vehicle is a 2004 TJ Sport, 4 wheel discs, limited slip Dana > 44 Rear, aluminum wheels. 30,100 miles, I've had it since new. Great > car in every way. I don't offroad it yet, I just drive it in snow and > adverse weather conditions. > > Recently, though, if I drive along and hit a particular type of bump, > usually a manhole cover sunk down into the asphault, and with one > wheel, usually the driver's side front, a wobble starts in that wheel, > travels up the steering column and into the steering wheel and won't > let go until it either dies out on its own, or maybe I change the > position of the steering wheel and it damps out, or I brake and slow > down. It persists for 2 to 6 seconds, and is quite startling. Not > something the vehicle has done in the past, ever. It does seem to be > getting worse over the last three weeks. It does not do it at all much > of the time. > > A quick look under doesn't show anything obviously loose or leaking, > and pulling at the tire and wheels and steering while they are on the > ground doesn't seem to show any obvious play. > > The car is under extended warranty. > > My questions are: > > (1) This sure sounds an awful lot like the usual death wobble, but at > 30,000 miles? Is this normal Jeep steering behavior for this mileage? > I've done regular maintenance at the hard use interval, including > lubing the front suspension and steering every 4000 miles, so it > shouldn't be neglect... The tires are due for balance and rotate, and > I've never had it aligned. But it's driven on-road. > > (2)Any suggestions on what to look at and wiggle and test to locate > where the problem is and what to replace? I'd like if possible to be > able to pinpoint enough of a problem to get a dealer to actually fix > it, if possible. I'm thinking it has to be the stabilizer shock, I'm > thinking get the wheels off the ground and move them, looking for play > in the tie rod ends and for resistance in the stabilizer shock. Any > specifics on what to look at to pinpoint the error would be much > appreciated. > > This news group, by the way has been fantastic to read over the last > year and a half. I've learned a tremendous amount - like my fan switch > stopped working at low, and I don't need to mention that as an issue > because I already know that they burn out regularly in one setting... > That'll be fixed on this trip in as well. > |
Re: 2004TJ front end wobble
Jerry -
Much thanks. I am so glad to hear there is a specific cause and cure. I'll check the trackbar tonight. I took the Jeep to my (non-dealership) mechanic to have the tires rotated and balanced. What this did was change the wobble significantly - instead of starting from the driver's side wheel and proceeding through the top (feels like the top anyway) of the front suspension, that same kind of bump doesn't do anything. Instead, now a more shallow ridge-type bump hitting both wheels starts the oscillation and it remains in the bottom of the suspension evenly distributed between both wheels. Unfortunately this never damps out and requires slowing alot before it stops. But it changed. Next is to check the trackbar bolt, tighten as necessary, check the rest of the front end for anything unusual while it is up off the ground, then back to the mechanic tomorrow morning to insist on perfect balance on the front tires and to have the alignment checked. I'll keep updating as this goes. Appreciate the feedback. --doug |
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