Re: 2002 Grand Cherokee Hard to Start
 

When my Jeep gets hard to start, I clean the connection on the CPS with
a spray contact cleaner or WD40 and am good to go again. I also clean
the TPS which seems to help with cold starts too. When it's connection
is clean it does idle up better cold.

I have an old beast but still....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Argo wrote:
>
> Over the last week, the dealer has:
> - Tested the injection system.
> - Tested a bunch of sensors.
> - Checked all the grounds, battery, etc.
>
> They suspected it could be carbon build up and suggested having the
> valves cleaned/replaced if necessary. A compression test showed 1
> cylinder down in the 120 range, so the valve job is uderway. Ugh.

Re: 2002 Grand Cherokee Hard to Start
 

When my Jeep gets hard to start, I clean the connection on the CPS with
a spray contact cleaner or WD40 and am good to go again. I also clean
the TPS which seems to help with cold starts too. When it's connection
is clean it does idle up better cold.

I have an old beast but still....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Argo wrote:
>
> Over the last week, the dealer has:
> - Tested the injection system.
> - Tested a bunch of sensors.
> - Checked all the grounds, battery, etc.
>
> They suspected it could be carbon build up and suggested having the
> valves cleaned/replaced if necessary. A compression test showed 1
> cylinder down in the 120 range, so the valve job is uderway. Ugh.

Re: 2002 Grand Cherokee Hard to Start
 

On 20 Oct 2006 14:04:30 -0700, "Argo" <mikemcd@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:

>No luck. I'm still experiencing the same problem. Fortunately, the
>valve job was a warranty job. I did notice that I smell gas when it
>starts hard. It seems like it must be flooding. Any chance the
>throttle body is toast?

No surprise there...

I'd agree with your flooding theory, but it's not caused by the
T/Body, as it has nothing to do with fuel. It just regulates how much
air is allowed into the engine. It is most likely an injector slowly
dripping fuel into the intake, causing a pool of fuel and a mixture
that is WAY too rich for starting. It will then take several
revolutions before the engine will start. It may run a little rough
for a few seconds after startup also.

It's a simple diagnosis, and you can even tell the idiots how it's
done... Just run the engine until it's at operating temp. Shut it
off, unbolt the fuel rail and pull the injectors out far enough to see
the business end. The leaking injector will be obvious. Note that
this is done with the injectors and fuel line still connected to the
rail, as the system must be under pressure to see the leak.

Or, since these guys seem to prefer the shotgun approach over
diagnosis, they could just replace all of the injectors.




>
>bllsht wrote:
>> On 20 Oct 2006 08:44:43 -0700, "Argo" <mikemcd@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >Over the last week, the dealer has:
>> >- Tested the injection system.
>> >- Tested a bunch of sensors.
>> >- Checked all the grounds, battery, etc.
>> >
>> >They suspected it could be carbon build up and suggested having the
>> >valves cleaned/replaced if necessary. A compression test showed 1
>> >cylinder down in the 120 range, so the valve job is uderway. Ugh.
>>
>> Sounds like an expensive guess to me.

Re: 2002 Grand Cherokee Hard to Start
 

On 20 Oct 2006 14:04:30 -0700, "Argo" <mikemcd@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:

>No luck. I'm still experiencing the same problem. Fortunately, the
>valve job was a warranty job. I did notice that I smell gas when it
>starts hard. It seems like it must be flooding. Any chance the
>throttle body is toast?

No surprise there...

I'd agree with your flooding theory, but it's not caused by the
T/Body, as it has nothing to do with fuel. It just regulates how much
air is allowed into the engine. It is most likely an injector slowly
dripping fuel into the intake, causing a pool of fuel and a mixture
that is WAY too rich for starting. It will then take several
revolutions before the engine will start. It may run a little rough
for a few seconds after startup also.

It's a simple diagnosis, and you can even tell the idiots how it's
done... Just run the engine until it's at operating temp. Shut it
off, unbolt the fuel rail and pull the injectors out far enough to see
the business end. The leaking injector will be obvious. Note that
this is done with the injectors and fuel line still connected to the
rail, as the system must be under pressure to see the leak.

Or, since these guys seem to prefer the shotgun approach over
diagnosis, they could just replace all of the injectors.




>
>bllsht wrote:
>> On 20 Oct 2006 08:44:43 -0700, "Argo" <mikemcd@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >Over the last week, the dealer has:
>> >- Tested the injection system.
>> >- Tested a bunch of sensors.
>> >- Checked all the grounds, battery, etc.
>> >
>> >They suspected it could be carbon build up and suggested having the
>> >valves cleaned/replaced if necessary. A compression test showed 1
>> >cylinder down in the 120 range, so the valve job is uderway. Ugh.
>>
>> Sounds like an expensive guess to me.

Re: 2002 Grand Cherokee Hard to Start
 

On 20 Oct 2006 14:04:30 -0700, "Argo" <mikemcd@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:

>No luck. I'm still experiencing the same problem. Fortunately, the
>valve job was a warranty job. I did notice that I smell gas when it
>starts hard. It seems like it must be flooding. Any chance the
>throttle body is toast?

No surprise there...

I'd agree with your flooding theory, but it's not caused by the
T/Body, as it has nothing to do with fuel. It just regulates how much
air is allowed into the engine. It is most likely an injector slowly
dripping fuel into the intake, causing a pool of fuel and a mixture
that is WAY too rich for starting. It will then take several
revolutions before the engine will start. It may run a little rough
for a few seconds after startup also.

It's a simple diagnosis, and you can even tell the idiots how it's
done... Just run the engine until it's at operating temp. Shut it
off, unbolt the fuel rail and pull the injectors out far enough to see
the business end. The leaking injector will be obvious. Note that
this is done with the injectors and fuel line still connected to the
rail, as the system must be under pressure to see the leak.

Or, since these guys seem to prefer the shotgun approach over
diagnosis, they could just replace all of the injectors.




>
>bllsht wrote:
>> On 20 Oct 2006 08:44:43 -0700, "Argo" <mikemcd@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >Over the last week, the dealer has:
>> >- Tested the injection system.
>> >- Tested a bunch of sensors.
>> >- Checked all the grounds, battery, etc.
>> >
>> >They suspected it could be carbon build up and suggested having the
>> >valves cleaned/replaced if necessary. A compression test showed 1
>> >cylinder down in the 120 range, so the valve job is uderway. Ugh.
>>
>> Sounds like an expensive guess to me.

Re: 2002 Grand Cherokee Hard to Start
 

In article <r9kjj2pl874nea1ho0o31o0f4ro9h3jatl@4ax.com>,
bllsht <nospam@dot.net> wrote:
#this is done with the injectors and fuel line still connected to the
#rail, as the system must be under pressure to see the leak.
#
#Or, since these guys seem to prefer the shotgun approach over
#diagnosis, they could just replace all of the injectors.
#

If it's still under warrenty, that might not be so bad...

/herb

Re: 2002 Grand Cherokee Hard to Start
 

In article <r9kjj2pl874nea1ho0o31o0f4ro9h3jatl@4ax.com>,
bllsht <nospam@dot.net> wrote:
#this is done with the injectors and fuel line still connected to the
#rail, as the system must be under pressure to see the leak.
#
#Or, since these guys seem to prefer the shotgun approach over
#diagnosis, they could just replace all of the injectors.
#

If it's still under warrenty, that might not be so bad...

/herb

Re: 2002 Grand Cherokee Hard to Start
 

In article <r9kjj2pl874nea1ho0o31o0f4ro9h3jatl@4ax.com>,
bllsht <nospam@dot.net> wrote:
#this is done with the injectors and fuel line still connected to the
#rail, as the system must be under pressure to see the leak.
#
#Or, since these guys seem to prefer the shotgun approach over
#diagnosis, they could just replace all of the injectors.
#

If it's still under warrenty, that might not be so bad...

/herb

Re: 2002 Grand Cherokee Hard to Start
 

Just for closure, in case anyone runs in to the same problem. It's
finally fixed ... heh. I picked it up yesterday. There were two
leaking injectors, one leaking outside (they mentioned replacing an
o-ring), and one leaking into the intake. Hopefully this is *really*
the end of it.

Thanks to the group for all your replies.



bllsht wrote:
> On 20 Oct 2006 14:04:30 -0700, "Argo" <mikemcd@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>
> >No luck. I'm still experiencing the same problem. Fortunately, the
> >valve job was a warranty job. I did notice that I smell gas when it
> >starts hard. It seems like it must be flooding. Any chance the
> >throttle body is toast?
>
> No surprise there...
>
> I'd agree with your flooding theory, but it's not caused by the
> T/Body, as it has nothing to do with fuel. It just regulates how much
> air is allowed into the engine. It is most likely an injector slowly
> dripping fuel into the intake, causing a pool of fuel and a mixture
> that is WAY too rich for starting. It will then take several
> revolutions before the engine will start. It may run a little rough
> for a few seconds after startup also.
>
> It's a simple diagnosis, and you can even tell the idiots how it's
> done... Just run the engine until it's at operating temp. Shut it
> off, unbolt the fuel rail and pull the injectors out far enough to see
> the business end. The leaking injector will be obvious. Note that
> this is done with the injectors and fuel line still connected to the
> rail, as the system must be under pressure to see the leak.
>
> Or, since these guys seem to prefer the shotgun approach over
> diagnosis, they could just replace all of the injectors.
>
>
>
>
> >
> >bllsht wrote:
> >> On 20 Oct 2006 08:44:43 -0700, "Argo" <mikemcd@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Over the last week, the dealer has:
> >> >- Tested the injection system.
> >> >- Tested a bunch of sensors.
> >> >- Checked all the grounds, battery, etc.
> >> >
> >> >They suspected it could be carbon build up and suggested having the
> >> >valves cleaned/replaced if necessary. A compression test showed 1
> >> >cylinder down in the 120 range, so the valve job is uderway. Ugh.
> >>
> >> Sounds like an expensive guess to me.

Re: 2002 Grand Cherokee Hard to Start
 

Just for closure, in case anyone runs in to the same problem. It's
finally fixed ... heh. I picked it up yesterday. There were two
leaking injectors, one leaking outside (they mentioned replacing an
o-ring), and one leaking into the intake. Hopefully this is *really*
the end of it.

Thanks to the group for all your replies.



bllsht wrote:
> On 20 Oct 2006 14:04:30 -0700, "Argo" <mikemcd@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>
> >No luck. I'm still experiencing the same problem. Fortunately, the
> >valve job was a warranty job. I did notice that I smell gas when it
> >starts hard. It seems like it must be flooding. Any chance the
> >throttle body is toast?
>
> No surprise there...
>
> I'd agree with your flooding theory, but it's not caused by the
> T/Body, as it has nothing to do with fuel. It just regulates how much
> air is allowed into the engine. It is most likely an injector slowly
> dripping fuel into the intake, causing a pool of fuel and a mixture
> that is WAY too rich for starting. It will then take several
> revolutions before the engine will start. It may run a little rough
> for a few seconds after startup also.
>
> It's a simple diagnosis, and you can even tell the idiots how it's
> done... Just run the engine until it's at operating temp. Shut it
> off, unbolt the fuel rail and pull the injectors out far enough to see
> the business end. The leaking injector will be obvious. Note that
> this is done with the injectors and fuel line still connected to the
> rail, as the system must be under pressure to see the leak.
>
> Or, since these guys seem to prefer the shotgun approach over
> diagnosis, they could just replace all of the injectors.
>
>
>
>
> >
> >bllsht wrote:
> >> On 20 Oct 2006 08:44:43 -0700, "Argo" <mikemcd@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Over the last week, the dealer has:
> >> >- Tested the injection system.
> >> >- Tested a bunch of sensors.
> >> >- Checked all the grounds, battery, etc.
> >> >
> >> >They suspected it could be carbon build up and suggested having the
> >> >valves cleaned/replaced if necessary. A compression test showed 1
> >> >cylinder down in the 120 range, so the valve job is uderway. Ugh.
> >>
> >> Sounds like an expensive guess to me.