William Oliveri

Thanks for the feedback Steve. I think I made it sound easy when I was
speaking of the piston coming right out. I pushed it up from the bottom
with a wood hammer handle. It got so far then had some tension. I then
when to the top and saw the first two rings were above the top so I then
pulled from the top. This is where it was more difficult to come out. Like
the oil ring(s) were causing the tension. Anyway, it finally came out and
that's where we are. The two compression rings did expand and have outward
tension.

Bill





"Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
news:trd0c.645115$ts4.573447@pd7tw3no...
> My Opinion, from looking at all of your picctures and you're description
of
> the removal is that there are multiple problems here. That cyl wall is
> extremely glazed and no evidence of a crosshatch, which is very unusual
> given that there's so little wear in the cyl evidenced by the absence of a
> ridge at the top. It also sounded like the piston came out too easy, no
> tension left on the rings for some reason. The rod bearing, as you've
found
> out is toast. Definately a contributing factor in the oil situation.
> Normally I would suspect the engine to have been run hot with these
> symptoms. The puzzle is why is the #2 cyl so apparently worse than the
> rest.
> What does the bearing surface of the crank feel like. Run your finger
> nail across the journal and feel for grooves or ridges. If it's not near
> perfectly smooth don't waste anymore time with it, it's a boat anchor.
> If the crank looks good, pull the rest of the pistons and take a look.
> Pull a main bearing cap farthest from the oil pump and see what it looks
> like. If the crank looks good you'll need a micrometer to measure it.
If
> it measures up okay, re-ring all pistons and replace all bearings, main
and
> rods.
> Steve
>
> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times and
it
> > loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
> >
> > Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or what
> the
> > pic might tell you would be appreciated.
> >
> > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Will Honea

Well, you definitely will have to break the glaze on that cylinder to
get the rings to seat. From the looks of it, I'd bet the side
clearance on the jug is a tad large as well, but you should get by
with it. What bugs me is that the lack of a ridge indicates
reasonably recent work - but what damned fool would put it back
together without at least slapping in a set if inserts??? I mean, he
had to have the rods loose to get the piston out Just
doesn't make much sense and I would be checking the rings and main
bearings as well while you have it apart. The work necessary to do
rings and inserts for all the cylinders plus replace all the mains is
minimal from this point. The cylinder looks OK, but I would be
nervous enough to look at the whole thing now that you're this far.

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:00:21 UTC "William Oliveri"
<wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote:

> Here you go Chris/All,
>
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...ylinder_2a.jpg
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...ylinder_2b.jpg
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...ylinder_2c.jpg
>
>
> I put some paper towel to try to get a good pic.
>
> I run my fingers inside the cylinder an am not picking up any nicks or rough
> spots. Feels smooth as a baby's behind.
>
> I see two "imprints" where the top two rings stop their upward ascent but
> those are smooth as well. No ridge what so ever.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> news:c590c.20158$QP.13366@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> > news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times and
> it
> > > loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
> > >
> > > Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or what
> > the
> > > pic might tell you would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> >
> > Bill, can you get a picture of the cylinder itself so that we can see the
> > finish on it?
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
>


--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Will Honea

Well, you definitely will have to break the glaze on that cylinder to
get the rings to seat. From the looks of it, I'd bet the side
clearance on the jug is a tad large as well, but you should get by
with it. What bugs me is that the lack of a ridge indicates
reasonably recent work - but what damned fool would put it back
together without at least slapping in a set if inserts??? I mean, he
had to have the rods loose to get the piston out Just
doesn't make much sense and I would be checking the rings and main
bearings as well while you have it apart. The work necessary to do
rings and inserts for all the cylinders plus replace all the mains is
minimal from this point. The cylinder looks OK, but I would be
nervous enough to look at the whole thing now that you're this far.

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:00:21 UTC "William Oliveri"
<wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote:

> Here you go Chris/All,
>
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...ylinder_2a.jpg
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...ylinder_2b.jpg
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...ylinder_2c.jpg
>
>
> I put some paper towel to try to get a good pic.
>
> I run my fingers inside the cylinder an am not picking up any nicks or rough
> spots. Feels smooth as a baby's behind.
>
> I see two "imprints" where the top two rings stop their upward ascent but
> those are smooth as well. No ridge what so ever.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> news:c590c.20158$QP.13366@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> > news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times and
> it
> > > loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
> > >
> > > Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or what
> > the
> > > pic might tell you would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> >
> > Bill, can you get a picture of the cylinder itself so that we can see the
> > finish on it?
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
>


--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Will Honea

Well, you definitely will have to break the glaze on that cylinder to
get the rings to seat. From the looks of it, I'd bet the side
clearance on the jug is a tad large as well, but you should get by
with it. What bugs me is that the lack of a ridge indicates
reasonably recent work - but what damned fool would put it back
together without at least slapping in a set if inserts??? I mean, he
had to have the rods loose to get the piston out Just
doesn't make much sense and I would be checking the rings and main
bearings as well while you have it apart. The work necessary to do
rings and inserts for all the cylinders plus replace all the mains is
minimal from this point. The cylinder looks OK, but I would be
nervous enough to look at the whole thing now that you're this far.

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:00:21 UTC "William Oliveri"
<wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote:

> Here you go Chris/All,
>
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...ylinder_2a.jpg
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...ylinder_2b.jpg
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...ylinder_2c.jpg
>
>
> I put some paper towel to try to get a good pic.
>
> I run my fingers inside the cylinder an am not picking up any nicks or rough
> spots. Feels smooth as a baby's behind.
>
> I see two "imprints" where the top two rings stop their upward ascent but
> those are smooth as well. No ridge what so ever.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> news:c590c.20158$QP.13366@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> > news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times and
> it
> > > loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
> > >
> > > Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or what
> > the
> > > pic might tell you would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> >
> > Bill, can you get a picture of the cylinder itself so that we can see the
> > finish on it?
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
>


--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

c

Steve hit the nail on the head here. If this engine was recently gone
through, then there were things done improperly. It looks like it has 100k
miles on it. First off, the crosshatch should be visible in the cylinders
for tens of thousands of miles after a bore/hone job, unless the engine was
honed for the racing type rings, but yours shouldn't have been. If it was,
this was the wrong thing to do. The rings will never seat properly and will
cause cylinder gases and heat to pass by the rings and heat the area around
the oil ring. This could be why you had so much crud in the oil rings. The
oil gets hot enough to "char" for lack of a better word. Second, based on
the condition of the bearings, the rod ends are out of round, or the
bearings were reused old ones. This needs to be addressed.

You have to decide at this point if you want to patch this engine up or
totally go through it, but then the previous overbore becomes an issue. I'm
not sure if the 258 is acceptable with a .060 overbore or not. From what
I've read, most of the 4.0's are ok to go .060 over, but each engine has its
own limitations based on casting thickness.

Anyway, if you want to patch it up, have the following done:
1. Have someone check the piston to bore clearance. If it is within spec,
then decide which rings you are going to use (I'd use the Hastings or some
other stock replacement moly rings).

2. Have the rod bores checked out. If they are out of round, then have them
resized back to spec. This is also a good time to replace the rod bolts with
a good set of ARP bolts. Rod bolts fatigue and become brittle over time.

3. It's a must to replace all the rod bearings based on the looks of the one
in your pictures. I would also check the mains as well and replace them if
they don't look good.

4. If all of the expense of this doesn't deter you, then clean everything up
until it is spotless. You'll need a few things to properly clean and
assemble your parts afterwards. If you go that way, I'll post the info here.

Chris

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:c1rpdr$1lj3hi$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Thanks for the feedback Steve. I think I made it sound easy when I was
> speaking of the piston coming right out. I pushed it up from the bottom
> with a wood hammer handle. It got so far then had some tension. I then
> when to the top and saw the first two rings were above the top so I then
> pulled from the top. This is where it was more difficult to come out.
Like
> the oil ring(s) were causing the tension. Anyway, it finally came out and
> that's where we are. The two compression rings did expand and have
outward
> tension.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
> "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> news:trd0c.645115$ts4.573447@pd7tw3no...
> > My Opinion, from looking at all of your picctures and you're description
> of
> > the removal is that there are multiple problems here. That cyl wall is
> > extremely glazed and no evidence of a crosshatch, which is very unusual
> > given that there's so little wear in the cyl evidenced by the absence of
a
> > ridge at the top. It also sounded like the piston came out too easy, no
> > tension left on the rings for some reason. The rod bearing, as you've
> found
> > out is toast. Definately a contributing factor in the oil situation.
> > Normally I would suspect the engine to have been run hot with these
> > symptoms. The puzzle is why is the #2 cyl so apparently worse than the
> > rest.
> > What does the bearing surface of the crank feel like. Run your
finger
> > nail across the journal and feel for grooves or ridges. If it's not
near
> > perfectly smooth don't waste anymore time with it, it's a boat anchor.
> > If the crank looks good, pull the rest of the pistons and take a
look.
> > Pull a main bearing cap farthest from the oil pump and see what it looks
> > like. If the crank looks good you'll need a micrometer to measure it.
> If
> > it measures up okay, re-ring all pistons and replace all bearings, main
> and
> > rods.
> > Steve
> >
> > "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> > news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times and
> it
> > > loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
> > >
> > > Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or
what
> > the
> > > pic might tell you would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

c

Steve hit the nail on the head here. If this engine was recently gone
through, then there were things done improperly. It looks like it has 100k
miles on it. First off, the crosshatch should be visible in the cylinders
for tens of thousands of miles after a bore/hone job, unless the engine was
honed for the racing type rings, but yours shouldn't have been. If it was,
this was the wrong thing to do. The rings will never seat properly and will
cause cylinder gases and heat to pass by the rings and heat the area around
the oil ring. This could be why you had so much crud in the oil rings. The
oil gets hot enough to "char" for lack of a better word. Second, based on
the condition of the bearings, the rod ends are out of round, or the
bearings were reused old ones. This needs to be addressed.

You have to decide at this point if you want to patch this engine up or
totally go through it, but then the previous overbore becomes an issue. I'm
not sure if the 258 is acceptable with a .060 overbore or not. From what
I've read, most of the 4.0's are ok to go .060 over, but each engine has its
own limitations based on casting thickness.

Anyway, if you want to patch it up, have the following done:
1. Have someone check the piston to bore clearance. If it is within spec,
then decide which rings you are going to use (I'd use the Hastings or some
other stock replacement moly rings).

2. Have the rod bores checked out. If they are out of round, then have them
resized back to spec. This is also a good time to replace the rod bolts with
a good set of ARP bolts. Rod bolts fatigue and become brittle over time.

3. It's a must to replace all the rod bearings based on the looks of the one
in your pictures. I would also check the mains as well and replace them if
they don't look good.

4. If all of the expense of this doesn't deter you, then clean everything up
until it is spotless. You'll need a few things to properly clean and
assemble your parts afterwards. If you go that way, I'll post the info here.

Chris

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:c1rpdr$1lj3hi$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Thanks for the feedback Steve. I think I made it sound easy when I was
> speaking of the piston coming right out. I pushed it up from the bottom
> with a wood hammer handle. It got so far then had some tension. I then
> when to the top and saw the first two rings were above the top so I then
> pulled from the top. This is where it was more difficult to come out.
Like
> the oil ring(s) were causing the tension. Anyway, it finally came out and
> that's where we are. The two compression rings did expand and have
outward
> tension.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
> "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> news:trd0c.645115$ts4.573447@pd7tw3no...
> > My Opinion, from looking at all of your picctures and you're description
> of
> > the removal is that there are multiple problems here. That cyl wall is
> > extremely glazed and no evidence of a crosshatch, which is very unusual
> > given that there's so little wear in the cyl evidenced by the absence of
a
> > ridge at the top. It also sounded like the piston came out too easy, no
> > tension left on the rings for some reason. The rod bearing, as you've
> found
> > out is toast. Definately a contributing factor in the oil situation.
> > Normally I would suspect the engine to have been run hot with these
> > symptoms. The puzzle is why is the #2 cyl so apparently worse than the
> > rest.
> > What does the bearing surface of the crank feel like. Run your
finger
> > nail across the journal and feel for grooves or ridges. If it's not
near
> > perfectly smooth don't waste anymore time with it, it's a boat anchor.
> > If the crank looks good, pull the rest of the pistons and take a
look.
> > Pull a main bearing cap farthest from the oil pump and see what it looks
> > like. If the crank looks good you'll need a micrometer to measure it.
> If
> > it measures up okay, re-ring all pistons and replace all bearings, main
> and
> > rods.
> > Steve
> >
> > "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> > news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times and
> it
> > > loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
> > >
> > > Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or
what
> > the
> > > pic might tell you would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

c

Steve hit the nail on the head here. If this engine was recently gone
through, then there were things done improperly. It looks like it has 100k
miles on it. First off, the crosshatch should be visible in the cylinders
for tens of thousands of miles after a bore/hone job, unless the engine was
honed for the racing type rings, but yours shouldn't have been. If it was,
this was the wrong thing to do. The rings will never seat properly and will
cause cylinder gases and heat to pass by the rings and heat the area around
the oil ring. This could be why you had so much crud in the oil rings. The
oil gets hot enough to "char" for lack of a better word. Second, based on
the condition of the bearings, the rod ends are out of round, or the
bearings were reused old ones. This needs to be addressed.

You have to decide at this point if you want to patch this engine up or
totally go through it, but then the previous overbore becomes an issue. I'm
not sure if the 258 is acceptable with a .060 overbore or not. From what
I've read, most of the 4.0's are ok to go .060 over, but each engine has its
own limitations based on casting thickness.

Anyway, if you want to patch it up, have the following done:
1. Have someone check the piston to bore clearance. If it is within spec,
then decide which rings you are going to use (I'd use the Hastings or some
other stock replacement moly rings).

2. Have the rod bores checked out. If they are out of round, then have them
resized back to spec. This is also a good time to replace the rod bolts with
a good set of ARP bolts. Rod bolts fatigue and become brittle over time.

3. It's a must to replace all the rod bearings based on the looks of the one
in your pictures. I would also check the mains as well and replace them if
they don't look good.

4. If all of the expense of this doesn't deter you, then clean everything up
until it is spotless. You'll need a few things to properly clean and
assemble your parts afterwards. If you go that way, I'll post the info here.

Chris

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:c1rpdr$1lj3hi$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Thanks for the feedback Steve. I think I made it sound easy when I was
> speaking of the piston coming right out. I pushed it up from the bottom
> with a wood hammer handle. It got so far then had some tension. I then
> when to the top and saw the first two rings were above the top so I then
> pulled from the top. This is where it was more difficult to come out.
Like
> the oil ring(s) were causing the tension. Anyway, it finally came out and
> that's where we are. The two compression rings did expand and have
outward
> tension.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
> "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> news:trd0c.645115$ts4.573447@pd7tw3no...
> > My Opinion, from looking at all of your picctures and you're description
> of
> > the removal is that there are multiple problems here. That cyl wall is
> > extremely glazed and no evidence of a crosshatch, which is very unusual
> > given that there's so little wear in the cyl evidenced by the absence of
a
> > ridge at the top. It also sounded like the piston came out too easy, no
> > tension left on the rings for some reason. The rod bearing, as you've
> found
> > out is toast. Definately a contributing factor in the oil situation.
> > Normally I would suspect the engine to have been run hot with these
> > symptoms. The puzzle is why is the #2 cyl so apparently worse than the
> > rest.
> > What does the bearing surface of the crank feel like. Run your
finger
> > nail across the journal and feel for grooves or ridges. If it's not
near
> > perfectly smooth don't waste anymore time with it, it's a boat anchor.
> > If the crank looks good, pull the rest of the pistons and take a
look.
> > Pull a main bearing cap farthest from the oil pump and see what it looks
> > like. If the crank looks good you'll need a micrometer to measure it.
> If
> > it measures up okay, re-ring all pistons and replace all bearings, main
> and
> > rods.
> > Steve
> >
> > "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> > news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times and
> it
> > > loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
> > >
> > > Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or
what
> > the
> > > pic might tell you would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

William Oliveri

Thank you very much Chris for taking the time to reply here.

You wrote:

> 4. If all of the expense of this doesn't deter you, then clean everything
up
> until it is spotless. You'll need a few things to properly clean and
> assemble your parts afterwards. If you go that way, I'll post the info
here.

Detered!!!

If the engine had less of a bore and if I could pull the engine where I am
(appt complex) I would consider it. I think right now, based on the
possiblity of deeper problems, I'm going to look for a replacement engine.
I could go through the motions and invest in all these parts but because I
can't have an expert look at the block the work has a possiblity of being
for nothing as a greater problem that I can't see might exist and come back
to haunt me. I'm going to take the $$$ and find something else.

This is what I have ready for whatever short block I can get:

http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/jeep/40head_sm.jpg

A freshly machined 4.0L head with a new 4.0L exhaust manifold.

I don't think this old block will be able to handle it.

Bill








"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:kYe0c.20217$QP.1077@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Steve hit the nail on the head here. If this engine was recently gone
> through, then there were things done improperly. It looks like it has 100k
> miles on it. First off, the crosshatch should be visible in the cylinders
> for tens of thousands of miles after a bore/hone job, unless the engine
was
> honed for the racing type rings, but yours shouldn't have been. If it
was,
> this was the wrong thing to do. The rings will never seat properly and
will
> cause cylinder gases and heat to pass by the rings and heat the area
around
> the oil ring. This could be why you had so much crud in the oil rings. The
> oil gets hot enough to "char" for lack of a better word. Second, based on
> the condition of the bearings, the rod ends are out of round, or the
> bearings were reused old ones. This needs to be addressed.
>
> You have to decide at this point if you want to patch this engine up or
> totally go through it, but then the previous overbore becomes an issue.
I'm
> not sure if the 258 is acceptable with a .060 overbore or not. From what
> I've read, most of the 4.0's are ok to go .060 over, but each engine has
its
> own limitations based on casting thickness.
>
> Anyway, if you want to patch it up, have the following done:
> 1. Have someone check the piston to bore clearance. If it is within spec,
> then decide which rings you are going to use (I'd use the Hastings or some
> other stock replacement moly rings).
>
> 2. Have the rod bores checked out. If they are out of round, then have
them
> resized back to spec. This is also a good time to replace the rod bolts
with
> a good set of ARP bolts. Rod bolts fatigue and become brittle over time.
>
> 3. It's a must to replace all the rod bearings based on the looks of the
one
> in your pictures. I would also check the mains as well and replace them if
> they don't look good.
>
>
> Chris
>
> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> news:c1rpdr$1lj3hi$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Thanks for the feedback Steve. I think I made it sound easy when I was
> > speaking of the piston coming right out. I pushed it up from the bottom
> > with a wood hammer handle. It got so far then had some tension. I then
> > when to the top and saw the first two rings were above the top so I then
> > pulled from the top. This is where it was more difficult to come out.
> Like
> > the oil ring(s) were causing the tension. Anyway, it finally came out
and
> > that's where we are. The two compression rings did expand and have
> outward
> > tension.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> > news:trd0c.645115$ts4.573447@pd7tw3no...
> > > My Opinion, from looking at all of your picctures and you're
description
> > of
> > > the removal is that there are multiple problems here. That cyl wall
is
> > > extremely glazed and no evidence of a crosshatch, which is very
unusual
> > > given that there's so little wear in the cyl evidenced by the absence
of
> a
> > > ridge at the top. It also sounded like the piston came out too easy,
no
> > > tension left on the rings for some reason. The rod bearing, as you've
> > found
> > > out is toast. Definately a contributing factor in the oil situation.
> > > Normally I would suspect the engine to have been run hot with these
> > > symptoms. The puzzle is why is the #2 cyl so apparently worse than
the
> > > rest.
> > > What does the bearing surface of the crank feel like. Run your
> finger
> > > nail across the journal and feel for grooves or ridges. If it's not
> near
> > > perfectly smooth don't waste anymore time with it, it's a boat anchor.
> > > If the crank looks good, pull the rest of the pistons and take a
> look.
> > > Pull a main bearing cap farthest from the oil pump and see what it
looks
> > > like. If the crank looks good you'll need a micrometer to measure
it.
> > If
> > > it measures up okay, re-ring all pistons and replace all bearings,
main
> > and
> > > rods.
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> > > news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > >
> > > > Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times
and
> > it
> > > > loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
> > > >
> > > > Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or
> what
> > > the
> > > > pic might tell you would be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> > > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> > > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

William Oliveri

Thank you very much Chris for taking the time to reply here.

You wrote:

> 4. If all of the expense of this doesn't deter you, then clean everything
up
> until it is spotless. You'll need a few things to properly clean and
> assemble your parts afterwards. If you go that way, I'll post the info
here.

Detered!!!

If the engine had less of a bore and if I could pull the engine where I am
(appt complex) I would consider it. I think right now, based on the
possiblity of deeper problems, I'm going to look for a replacement engine.
I could go through the motions and invest in all these parts but because I
can't have an expert look at the block the work has a possiblity of being
for nothing as a greater problem that I can't see might exist and come back
to haunt me. I'm going to take the $$$ and find something else.

This is what I have ready for whatever short block I can get:

http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/jeep/40head_sm.jpg

A freshly machined 4.0L head with a new 4.0L exhaust manifold.

I don't think this old block will be able to handle it.

Bill








"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:kYe0c.20217$QP.1077@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Steve hit the nail on the head here. If this engine was recently gone
> through, then there were things done improperly. It looks like it has 100k
> miles on it. First off, the crosshatch should be visible in the cylinders
> for tens of thousands of miles after a bore/hone job, unless the engine
was
> honed for the racing type rings, but yours shouldn't have been. If it
was,
> this was the wrong thing to do. The rings will never seat properly and
will
> cause cylinder gases and heat to pass by the rings and heat the area
around
> the oil ring. This could be why you had so much crud in the oil rings. The
> oil gets hot enough to "char" for lack of a better word. Second, based on
> the condition of the bearings, the rod ends are out of round, or the
> bearings were reused old ones. This needs to be addressed.
>
> You have to decide at this point if you want to patch this engine up or
> totally go through it, but then the previous overbore becomes an issue.
I'm
> not sure if the 258 is acceptable with a .060 overbore or not. From what
> I've read, most of the 4.0's are ok to go .060 over, but each engine has
its
> own limitations based on casting thickness.
>
> Anyway, if you want to patch it up, have the following done:
> 1. Have someone check the piston to bore clearance. If it is within spec,
> then decide which rings you are going to use (I'd use the Hastings or some
> other stock replacement moly rings).
>
> 2. Have the rod bores checked out. If they are out of round, then have
them
> resized back to spec. This is also a good time to replace the rod bolts
with
> a good set of ARP bolts. Rod bolts fatigue and become brittle over time.
>
> 3. It's a must to replace all the rod bearings based on the looks of the
one
> in your pictures. I would also check the mains as well and replace them if
> they don't look good.
>
>
> Chris
>
> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> news:c1rpdr$1lj3hi$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Thanks for the feedback Steve. I think I made it sound easy when I was
> > speaking of the piston coming right out. I pushed it up from the bottom
> > with a wood hammer handle. It got so far then had some tension. I then
> > when to the top and saw the first two rings were above the top so I then
> > pulled from the top. This is where it was more difficult to come out.
> Like
> > the oil ring(s) were causing the tension. Anyway, it finally came out
and
> > that's where we are. The two compression rings did expand and have
> outward
> > tension.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> > news:trd0c.645115$ts4.573447@pd7tw3no...
> > > My Opinion, from looking at all of your picctures and you're
description
> > of
> > > the removal is that there are multiple problems here. That cyl wall
is
> > > extremely glazed and no evidence of a crosshatch, which is very
unusual
> > > given that there's so little wear in the cyl evidenced by the absence
of
> a
> > > ridge at the top. It also sounded like the piston came out too easy,
no
> > > tension left on the rings for some reason. The rod bearing, as you've
> > found
> > > out is toast. Definately a contributing factor in the oil situation.
> > > Normally I would suspect the engine to have been run hot with these
> > > symptoms. The puzzle is why is the #2 cyl so apparently worse than
the
> > > rest.
> > > What does the bearing surface of the crank feel like. Run your
> finger
> > > nail across the journal and feel for grooves or ridges. If it's not
> near
> > > perfectly smooth don't waste anymore time with it, it's a boat anchor.
> > > If the crank looks good, pull the rest of the pistons and take a
> look.
> > > Pull a main bearing cap farthest from the oil pump and see what it
looks
> > > like. If the crank looks good you'll need a micrometer to measure
it.
> > If
> > > it measures up okay, re-ring all pistons and replace all bearings,
main
> > and
> > > rods.
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> > > news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > >
> > > > Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times
and
> > it
> > > > loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
> > > >
> > > > Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or
> what
> > > the
> > > > pic might tell you would be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> > > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> > > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

William Oliveri

Thank you very much Chris for taking the time to reply here.

You wrote:

> 4. If all of the expense of this doesn't deter you, then clean everything
up
> until it is spotless. You'll need a few things to properly clean and
> assemble your parts afterwards. If you go that way, I'll post the info
here.

Detered!!!

If the engine had less of a bore and if I could pull the engine where I am
(appt complex) I would consider it. I think right now, based on the
possiblity of deeper problems, I'm going to look for a replacement engine.
I could go through the motions and invest in all these parts but because I
can't have an expert look at the block the work has a possiblity of being
for nothing as a greater problem that I can't see might exist and come back
to haunt me. I'm going to take the $$$ and find something else.

This is what I have ready for whatever short block I can get:

http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/jeep/40head_sm.jpg

A freshly machined 4.0L head with a new 4.0L exhaust manifold.

I don't think this old block will be able to handle it.

Bill








"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:kYe0c.20217$QP.1077@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Steve hit the nail on the head here. If this engine was recently gone
> through, then there were things done improperly. It looks like it has 100k
> miles on it. First off, the crosshatch should be visible in the cylinders
> for tens of thousands of miles after a bore/hone job, unless the engine
was
> honed for the racing type rings, but yours shouldn't have been. If it
was,
> this was the wrong thing to do. The rings will never seat properly and
will
> cause cylinder gases and heat to pass by the rings and heat the area
around
> the oil ring. This could be why you had so much crud in the oil rings. The
> oil gets hot enough to "char" for lack of a better word. Second, based on
> the condition of the bearings, the rod ends are out of round, or the
> bearings were reused old ones. This needs to be addressed.
>
> You have to decide at this point if you want to patch this engine up or
> totally go through it, but then the previous overbore becomes an issue.
I'm
> not sure if the 258 is acceptable with a .060 overbore or not. From what
> I've read, most of the 4.0's are ok to go .060 over, but each engine has
its
> own limitations based on casting thickness.
>
> Anyway, if you want to patch it up, have the following done:
> 1. Have someone check the piston to bore clearance. If it is within spec,
> then decide which rings you are going to use (I'd use the Hastings or some
> other stock replacement moly rings).
>
> 2. Have the rod bores checked out. If they are out of round, then have
them
> resized back to spec. This is also a good time to replace the rod bolts
with
> a good set of ARP bolts. Rod bolts fatigue and become brittle over time.
>
> 3. It's a must to replace all the rod bearings based on the looks of the
one
> in your pictures. I would also check the mains as well and replace them if
> they don't look good.
>
>
> Chris
>
> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> news:c1rpdr$1lj3hi$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Thanks for the feedback Steve. I think I made it sound easy when I was
> > speaking of the piston coming right out. I pushed it up from the bottom
> > with a wood hammer handle. It got so far then had some tension. I then
> > when to the top and saw the first two rings were above the top so I then
> > pulled from the top. This is where it was more difficult to come out.
> Like
> > the oil ring(s) were causing the tension. Anyway, it finally came out
and
> > that's where we are. The two compression rings did expand and have
> outward
> > tension.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> > news:trd0c.645115$ts4.573447@pd7tw3no...
> > > My Opinion, from looking at all of your picctures and you're
description
> > of
> > > the removal is that there are multiple problems here. That cyl wall
is
> > > extremely glazed and no evidence of a crosshatch, which is very
unusual
> > > given that there's so little wear in the cyl evidenced by the absence
of
> a
> > > ridge at the top. It also sounded like the piston came out too easy,
no
> > > tension left on the rings for some reason. The rod bearing, as you've
> > found
> > > out is toast. Definately a contributing factor in the oil situation.
> > > Normally I would suspect the engine to have been run hot with these
> > > symptoms. The puzzle is why is the #2 cyl so apparently worse than
the
> > > rest.
> > > What does the bearing surface of the crank feel like. Run your
> finger
> > > nail across the journal and feel for grooves or ridges. If it's not
> near
> > > perfectly smooth don't waste anymore time with it, it's a boat anchor.
> > > If the crank looks good, pull the rest of the pistons and take a
> look.
> > > Pull a main bearing cap farthest from the oil pump and see what it
looks
> > > like. If the crank looks good you'll need a micrometer to measure
it.
> > If
> > > it measures up okay, re-ring all pistons and replace all bearings,
main
> > and
> > > rods.
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> > > news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > >
> > > > Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times
and
> > it
> > > > loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
> > > >
> > > > Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or
> what
> > > the
> > > > pic might tell you would be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> > > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> > > > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>