William Oliveri

I took the rings off the cylinder but I could not move the oil ring around
at will. Should this ring float freely?

Also, I do not see the cross-hatch pattern that you are speaking of.

See the piston without rings:

http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2c.jpg
http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2d.jpg
http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...s/rings_2a.jpg


The big question in all of this is do I want to continue to invest in this
engine. I found a 79 year 4.2L engine that has just been rebuilt that is
selling for 50.00 to 100.00. The problem is I can't contact the rebuilder
and confirm the bore or work that was done. The seller bought a package
which included the frame, engine, and tranny and he doesn't know alot about
jeep engines, mostly chevys. He didn't need the engine and that's why he's
selling. He looked inside the valve cover and he said it looks fantastic.
Clean like a rebuild. Definately not like a 79 year should. He's suppose
to be sending me pics tonight. The problem is it's in Utah which I could go
borrow a truck and pick it up then get someone to install it. Also, don't
know what's inside.

It's a hugh gamble as I might be buying a 50.00 to 100.00 anchor.

The plan would be to have it delivered to a machine shop/engine rebuilder to
have him check it out, put the 4.0L head on it and put it in the jeep.

Bill



"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:IJ90c.20164$QP.8242@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> That picture is why I asked for another one. That cylinder looks like a
> mirror in there, compared to what I can see of the other ones. I'm just
> wondering if the crosshatch is gone, which it looks like it is. If Bill O.
> could take a pic with the camera as close to the engine as possible, and
> then point it at the cylinder wall, it might show us something. My concern
> is if the cylinders were ever properly honed, or did someone use a really
> fine honing stone with chrome or cast rings. Also (to Bill O.), can you
move
> the rings at all in the oil groove? They look to have a lot of crud in
them.
>
> I would recommend that if you ring and bearing this thing, that you take
the
> rods in and have them checked to see if the bearing bore is round. If the
> engine is supposed to have low miles since its rebuild, then based on the
> bearing condition, I would suspect an out of round rod bore.
>
>
> Chris
>
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:404123EA.F7DFD7F2@***.net...
> > Hi Chris,
> > I would say it would be really, really difficult for us to be able
> > to see any groves or cracks or scuffing, judging by one of Bill's other
> > pictures: http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../cylinder3.jpg
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > c wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill, can you get a picture of the cylinder itself so that we can see
> the
> > > finish on it?
> > >
> > > Chris
>
>

William Oliveri

I took the rings off the cylinder but I could not move the oil ring around
at will. Should this ring float freely?

Also, I do not see the cross-hatch pattern that you are speaking of.

See the piston without rings:

http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2c.jpg
http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2d.jpg
http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...s/rings_2a.jpg


The big question in all of this is do I want to continue to invest in this
engine. I found a 79 year 4.2L engine that has just been rebuilt that is
selling for 50.00 to 100.00. The problem is I can't contact the rebuilder
and confirm the bore or work that was done. The seller bought a package
which included the frame, engine, and tranny and he doesn't know alot about
jeep engines, mostly chevys. He didn't need the engine and that's why he's
selling. He looked inside the valve cover and he said it looks fantastic.
Clean like a rebuild. Definately not like a 79 year should. He's suppose
to be sending me pics tonight. The problem is it's in Utah which I could go
borrow a truck and pick it up then get someone to install it. Also, don't
know what's inside.

It's a hugh gamble as I might be buying a 50.00 to 100.00 anchor.

The plan would be to have it delivered to a machine shop/engine rebuilder to
have him check it out, put the 4.0L head on it and put it in the jeep.

Bill



"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:IJ90c.20164$QP.8242@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> That picture is why I asked for another one. That cylinder looks like a
> mirror in there, compared to what I can see of the other ones. I'm just
> wondering if the crosshatch is gone, which it looks like it is. If Bill O.
> could take a pic with the camera as close to the engine as possible, and
> then point it at the cylinder wall, it might show us something. My concern
> is if the cylinders were ever properly honed, or did someone use a really
> fine honing stone with chrome or cast rings. Also (to Bill O.), can you
move
> the rings at all in the oil groove? They look to have a lot of crud in
them.
>
> I would recommend that if you ring and bearing this thing, that you take
the
> rods in and have them checked to see if the bearing bore is round. If the
> engine is supposed to have low miles since its rebuild, then based on the
> bearing condition, I would suspect an out of round rod bore.
>
>
> Chris
>
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:404123EA.F7DFD7F2@***.net...
> > Hi Chris,
> > I would say it would be really, really difficult for us to be able
> > to see any groves or cracks or scuffing, judging by one of Bill's other
> > pictures: http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../cylinder3.jpg
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > c wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill, can you get a picture of the cylinder itself so that we can see
> the
> > > finish on it?
> > >
> > > Chris
>
>

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

http://www2.inhis.com/HumorNew/humor.asp?id=2784
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Cherokee-LTD wrote:
>
> gas prices as high as they are, do you really want to be spraying it on your
> pistons? ;-)
> -Brian

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

http://www2.inhis.com/HumorNew/humor.asp?id=2784
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Cherokee-LTD wrote:
>
> gas prices as high as they are, do you really want to be spraying it on your
> pistons? ;-)
> -Brian

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

http://www2.inhis.com/HumorNew/humor.asp?id=2784
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Cherokee-LTD wrote:
>
> gas prices as high as they are, do you really want to be spraying it on your
> pistons? ;-)
> -Brian

Steve G

My Opinion, from looking at all of your picctures and you're description of
the removal is that there are multiple problems here. That cyl wall is
extremely glazed and no evidence of a crosshatch, which is very unusual
given that there's so little wear in the cyl evidenced by the absence of a
ridge at the top. It also sounded like the piston came out too easy, no
tension left on the rings for some reason. The rod bearing, as you've found
out is toast. Definately a contributing factor in the oil situation.
Normally I would suspect the engine to have been run hot with these
symptoms. The puzzle is why is the #2 cyl so apparently worse than the
rest.
What does the bearing surface of the crank feel like. Run your finger
nail across the journal and feel for grooves or ridges. If it's not near
perfectly smooth don't waste anymore time with it, it's a boat anchor.
If the crank looks good, pull the rest of the pistons and take a look.
Pull a main bearing cap farthest from the oil pump and see what it looks
like. If the crank looks good you'll need a micrometer to measure it. If
it measures up okay, re-ring all pistons and replace all bearings, main and
rods.
Steve

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times and it
> loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
>
> Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or what
the
> pic might tell you would be appreciated.
>
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>

Steve G

My Opinion, from looking at all of your picctures and you're description of
the removal is that there are multiple problems here. That cyl wall is
extremely glazed and no evidence of a crosshatch, which is very unusual
given that there's so little wear in the cyl evidenced by the absence of a
ridge at the top. It also sounded like the piston came out too easy, no
tension left on the rings for some reason. The rod bearing, as you've found
out is toast. Definately a contributing factor in the oil situation.
Normally I would suspect the engine to have been run hot with these
symptoms. The puzzle is why is the #2 cyl so apparently worse than the
rest.
What does the bearing surface of the crank feel like. Run your finger
nail across the journal and feel for grooves or ridges. If it's not near
perfectly smooth don't waste anymore time with it, it's a boat anchor.
If the crank looks good, pull the rest of the pistons and take a look.
Pull a main bearing cap farthest from the oil pump and see what it looks
like. If the crank looks good you'll need a micrometer to measure it. If
it measures up okay, re-ring all pistons and replace all bearings, main and
rods.
Steve

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times and it
> loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
>
> Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or what
the
> pic might tell you would be appreciated.
>
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>

Steve G

My Opinion, from looking at all of your picctures and you're description of
the removal is that there are multiple problems here. That cyl wall is
extremely glazed and no evidence of a crosshatch, which is very unusual
given that there's so little wear in the cyl evidenced by the absence of a
ridge at the top. It also sounded like the piston came out too easy, no
tension left on the rings for some reason. The rod bearing, as you've found
out is toast. Definately a contributing factor in the oil situation.
Normally I would suspect the engine to have been run hot with these
symptoms. The puzzle is why is the #2 cyl so apparently worse than the
rest.
What does the bearing surface of the crank feel like. Run your finger
nail across the journal and feel for grooves or ridges. If it's not near
perfectly smooth don't waste anymore time with it, it's a boat anchor.
If the crank looks good, pull the rest of the pistons and take a look.
Pull a main bearing cap farthest from the oil pump and see what it looks
like. If the crank looks good you'll need a micrometer to measure it. If
it measures up okay, re-ring all pistons and replace all bearings, main and
rods.
Steve

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times and it
> loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
>
> Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or what
the
> pic might tell you would be appreciated.
>
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>

William Oliveri

Thanks for the feedback Steve. I think I made it sound easy when I was
speaking of the piston coming right out. I pushed it up from the bottom
with a wood hammer handle. It got so far then had some tension. I then
when to the top and saw the first two rings were above the top so I then
pulled from the top. This is where it was more difficult to come out. Like
the oil ring(s) were causing the tension. Anyway, it finally came out and
that's where we are. The two compression rings did expand and have outward
tension.

Bill





"Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
news:trd0c.645115$ts4.573447@pd7tw3no...
> My Opinion, from looking at all of your picctures and you're description
of
> the removal is that there are multiple problems here. That cyl wall is
> extremely glazed and no evidence of a crosshatch, which is very unusual
> given that there's so little wear in the cyl evidenced by the absence of a
> ridge at the top. It also sounded like the piston came out too easy, no
> tension left on the rings for some reason. The rod bearing, as you've
found
> out is toast. Definately a contributing factor in the oil situation.
> Normally I would suspect the engine to have been run hot with these
> symptoms. The puzzle is why is the #2 cyl so apparently worse than the
> rest.
> What does the bearing surface of the crank feel like. Run your finger
> nail across the journal and feel for grooves or ridges. If it's not near
> perfectly smooth don't waste anymore time with it, it's a boat anchor.
> If the crank looks good, pull the rest of the pistons and take a look.
> Pull a main bearing cap farthest from the oil pump and see what it looks
> like. If the crank looks good you'll need a micrometer to measure it.
If
> it measures up okay, re-ring all pistons and replace all bearings, main
and
> rods.
> Steve
>
> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times and
it
> > loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
> >
> > Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or what
> the
> > pic might tell you would be appreciated.
> >
> > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
>
>

William Oliveri

Thanks for the feedback Steve. I think I made it sound easy when I was
speaking of the piston coming right out. I pushed it up from the bottom
with a wood hammer handle. It got so far then had some tension. I then
when to the top and saw the first two rings were above the top so I then
pulled from the top. This is where it was more difficult to come out. Like
the oil ring(s) were causing the tension. Anyway, it finally came out and
that's where we are. The two compression rings did expand and have outward
tension.

Bill





"Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
news:trd0c.645115$ts4.573447@pd7tw3no...
> My Opinion, from looking at all of your picctures and you're description
of
> the removal is that there are multiple problems here. That cyl wall is
> extremely glazed and no evidence of a crosshatch, which is very unusual
> given that there's so little wear in the cyl evidenced by the absence of a
> ridge at the top. It also sounded like the piston came out too easy, no
> tension left on the rings for some reason. The rod bearing, as you've
found
> out is toast. Definately a contributing factor in the oil situation.
> Normally I would suspect the engine to have been run hot with these
> symptoms. The puzzle is why is the #2 cyl so apparently worse than the
> rest.
> What does the bearing surface of the crank feel like. Run your finger
> nail across the journal and feel for grooves or ridges. If it's not near
> perfectly smooth don't waste anymore time with it, it's a boat anchor.
> If the crank looks good, pull the rest of the pistons and take a look.
> Pull a main bearing cap farthest from the oil pump and see what it looks
> like. If the crank looks good you'll need a micrometer to measure it.
If
> it measures up okay, re-ring all pistons and replace all bearings, main
and
> rods.
> Steve
>
> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> news:c1qsom$1krk9u$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > Got the piston out. Just tapped on the rod bolt a couple of times and
it
> > loosened up. Came right out of the cylinder, no ridge, no problem.
> >
> > Here are the pics. Any feedback on the condition of this piston or what
> the
> > pic might tell you would be appreciated.
> >
> > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2a.jpg
> > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je.../piston_2b.jpg
> > http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/je...berrings2a.jpg
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
>
>