Re: 1982 CJ8 6cyl Oil Pan gasket/kit? Oil pump?
 

On Dec 31 2007, 11:20 am, m...@murklagoon.com wrote:
> A friend was trying to help me siphon some oil from my Scrambler to
> get an oil analysis done. (Analysis came back fine.)
>
> However, he used some plastic tubing to get the sample through the
> dipstick tube, got it caught somehow when pulling it out, and broke
> off an unknown quantity in the pan.
>
> So I assume I must drop the pan and remove whatever plastic tubing
> remains before starting the motor.
>
> Question #1: Since I'm already in there should I replace the oil
> pump? As far as I know the existing (and original) pump is working
> fine; and the engine has only 55,000 original miles.
>
> Question #1a: If you think I should replace the oil pump -- is there
> a recommended replacement pump/brand/part??
>
> Question #2: I have not dropped the pan yet. What gasket/gasket kit
> do you recommend I get? And what type sealer (if any) should I be
> using??
>
> I apologize for asking such basic questions but I haven't been doing
> much mechanicing for quite a while and don't know for sure how it
> should be done with today's parts. Advice on this forum has been very
> helpful numerous times .. so any suggestions will be most appreciated
> ......
>
> Thanks ....
>
> Mike

Mike,

For #2, Napa sells a one piece gasket that works pretty good. I put
one on when I changed engines. No sealer required, which means you
won't need to replace it if you need to drop the oil pan again.

Michael

Re: 1982 CJ8 6cyl Oil Pan gasket/kit? Oil pump?
 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:37:34 -0500, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
wrote:

* snip *
>Not sure about the gasket but with only 55,000 miles I wouldn't worry
>about the oil pump, make sure the screen is clean but that's about it.
>Those pumps spend their whole lives immersed in oil and they don't wear
>very much unless you never change the oil.

Agree. But its sure easy to do if the pan is already off. So I just
thought I'd see if anybody had a different view.
>
>If you plan on doing much wrenching it might be worth your while to
>invest in a shop manual, it will have details like what kind of sealer
>you should use.

Agree. Very good advice. And I actually do have the factory manual as
sold to consumers, came in two volumes. I bought this CJ8 new in
1982 and had the manual before I had the Scrambler

Alas, it does not 'have details" on this question.

And the manual, in this case, only works with knowledge and materials
available <> 25 years ago; a lot has changed in materials, sealers,
gaskets, etc. since 1982. Therefore the question.

Mike

>
>Jeff DeWitt

Re: 1982 CJ8 6cyl Oil Pan gasket/kit? Oil pump?
 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:44:00 -0500, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
wrote:

*snip*

>It's used to determine what contaminates are in the oil. Those tests
>can be really useful to tell if the engine is running too rich, showing
>excessive wear, has an internal coolant leak, poor ventilation and a
>bunch of other useful things.

Yes, that's it. Learn info about the engine as much as about the oil.
In fact I use synthetic and change it often so I don't really even
think about the oil; its what's going on to the engine itself that I
want to know about. (One of the results reported where I test
includes antifreeze levels. Detecting internal coolant leaks early --
hopefully before you see obvious signes -- is a VERY good thing.)

Plus if you keep a vehicle over time (in this case <> 25 years) it
lets you see changes in the motor's condition as it wears over time. I
can pull out the results and look from early on.

Also often used by people purchasing high-end used vehicles; actually
a good thing to do if purchasing any used vehicle to assess the
engines condition because there are a lot of 'sins' that can be
revealed.

An interesting aside -- if leaded fuel was ever run in the engine for
any period of time the oil analysis will show increased levels of lead
from what would be expected. Normally that higher lead concentration
would indicate specific problems with the engine if the engine had
never used leaded gas and the lead was coming from wear. I'm not an
expert here for certain, but I've been told the excellent lubricating
properties of lead from leaded fuel that leaked past the rings sort of
embeds itself in the cylinder walls -- in this situation sort of
providing enhanced lubrication.

Mike

>
>The oil is like the engines blood and if anything is wrong it will show
>up in the oil.
>
>Jeff DeWitt

Re: 1982 CJ8 6cyl Oil Pan gasket/kit? Oil pump?
 

On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 00:15:27 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
<crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:

>
><mp@murklagoon.com> wrote in message
>news:k01in3ht4hv5880aha7c0u626gffiuivvf@4ax.com.. .
>>A friend was trying to help me siphon some oil from my Scrambler to
>> get an oil analysis done. (Analysis came back fine.)
>>
>
>Why not just pull the plug and catch a little, then put the plug back in?
That's what I've always done .. until the spinal cord injury. Now I
have difficulty working under any vehicle.

After the injury I started thinking of alternative way of doing lots
of things.

30+ years working in Underwater Archaeology and Scientific Diving
living around expensive boats where it is not possible to get
underneath engines and watching high-end car dealers siphon oil from
dipsticks made me start thinking. So I did a little research, thought
I'd try it and got a tank that uses air from my compressorto pull the
oil out that way.

Haven't actually tried it on the CJ8 yet because when the problem
occurred I pulled the plug and let it drain. This method did not work
on my TrailBlazer because I couldn't get the siphon tube far enough
down in the engine; seemed to work well on a1999 Mercedes and my 1990
Cherokee.

I'm defining 'work well' as it appeared to get just as much oil out of
the engine as I got before with the draining method.

Always trying new ways of doing old things .. any other opinions of
course appreciated.

Mike
>
>Or, take the filter off and pour some oil out, then put it back on?
>
>Or, disconnect the oil pipe on the side of the filter mount, crank the motor
>over a couple of times, then reconnect the pipe?
>
>These are three easier ways to get oil out of a motor than trying to suck it
>out through the dip stick hole.
>
>
>
>
>> However, he used some plastic tubing to get the sample through the
>> dipstick tube, got it caught somehow when pulling it out, and broke
>> off an unknown quantity in the pan.
>>
>
>Any plastic that small would get pulverized, and trapped inside the filter.
>I'd suggest that this is not the serious problem yo are worried about.
>
>

Re: 1982 CJ8 6cyl Oil Pan gasket/kit? Oil pump?
 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:17:49 -0800, "------------------------ III"
<----------@----------.com> wrote:

> Not to worry, all oil pick up tubes have a screen on them:
Bill,

I thought of that.

But then began wondering what about the possibility/likelihood that
this errant piece of plastic could somehow hurt the bottom end of the
engine (crank, bearings, etc.)? Or over time melt/deteriorate and do
something like this??

Mike

>http://www.aa1car.com/library/oil_screen_sludge.jpg
>Next oil change, rake it out the drain hole.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:----------@----------.com
> http://www.----------.com/jeep_bookmark.htm
>
>
><mp@murklagoon.com> wrote in message
>news:k01in3ht4hv5880aha7c0u626gffiuivvf@4ax.com.. .
>> A friend was trying to help me siphon some oil from my Scrambler to
>> get an oil analysis done. (Analysis came back fine.)
>>
>> However, he used some plastic tubing to get the sample through the
>> dipstick tube, got it caught somehow when pulling it out, and broke
>> off an unknown quantity in the pan.
>>
>> So I assume I must drop the pan and remove whatever plastic tubing
>> remains before starting the motor.
>>
>> Question #1: Since I'm already in there should I replace the oil
>> pump? As far as I know the existing (and original) pump is working
>> fine; and the engine has only 55,000 original miles.
>>
>> Question #1a: If you think I should replace the oil pump -- is there
>> a recommended replacement pump/brand/part??
>>
>> Question #2: I have not dropped the pan yet. What gasket/gasket kit
>> do you recommend I get? And what type sealer (if any) should I be
>> using??
>>
>> I apologize for asking such basic questions but I haven't been doing
>> much mechanicing for quite a while and don't know for sure how it
>> should be done with today's parts. Advice on this forum has been very
>> helpful numerous times .. so any suggestions will be most appreciated
>> ......
>>
>> Thanks ....
>>
>> Mike
>>

Re: 1982 CJ8 6cyl Oil Pan gasket/kit? Oil pump?
 

On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 19:14:30 -0800 (PST), michael.white@charter.net
wrote:
** snip **
>> Question #2: I have not dropped the pan yet. What gasket/gasket kit
>> do you recommend I get? And what type sealer (if any) should I be
>> using??
>>
** snip **

>For #2, Napa sells a one piece gasket that works pretty good. I put
>one on when I changed engines. No sealer required, which means you
>won't need to replace it if you need to drop the oil pan again.

If that's really all there is to it you've probably helped me make up
my mind on what to do. Probably off to NAPA later.

Any 'gotcha's"? Any particular problems or suggestions??

Mike

>
>Michael

Re: 1982 CJ8 6cyl Oil Pan gasket/kit? Oil pump?
 

mp@murklagoon.com> wrote in message
news:vsfsn35v36cfhcpg1vr34tcviijemcfvo5@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 19:14:30 -0800 (PST), michael.white@charter.net
> wrote:
> ** snip **
>
> Any 'gotcha's"? Any particular problems or suggestions??
>
> Mike
>
>>
>>Michael

Before I went through all the trouble of pulling the pan on a motor
that has 55K on it, assuming it has no pan leaks, I'd be pulling the drain
plug and dip stick tube to "look" for the plastic tube. Get one
of those retractable claw pick up tools and do some fishing:

http://www.redboxtools.com/detail.cfm?productID=1521

Your tube 'should' be in the bottom end of the pan anyhow...

PaulinVA

Re: 1982 CJ8 6cyl Oil Pan gasket/kit? Oil pump?
 

If you are able to do an oil change, then you care able to pull the drain
plug and catch a sample. If you are not able to change the oil, then the
shop where you go for an oil change can capture a sample for you.

Either way, you avoid getting foreign objects broken off inside the
crankcase.

Good luck.



<mp@murklagoon.com> wrote in message
news:f5esn3hbipjohruvnp06j67jduq2po8aal@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 00:15:27 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
> <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>><mp@murklagoon.com> wrote in message
>>news:k01in3ht4hv5880aha7c0u626gffiuivvf@4ax.com. ..
>>>A friend was trying to help me siphon some oil from my Scrambler to
>>> get an oil analysis done. (Analysis came back fine.)
>>>
>>
>>Why not just pull the plug and catch a little, then put the plug back in?
> That's what I've always done .. until the spinal cord injury. Now I
> have difficulty working under any vehicle.
>
> After the injury I started thinking of alternative way of doing lots
> of things.
>
> 30+ years working in Underwater Archaeology and Scientific Diving
> living around expensive boats where it is not possible to get
> underneath engines and watching high-end car dealers siphon oil from
> dipsticks made me start thinking. So I did a little research, thought
> I'd try it and got a tank that uses air from my compressorto pull the
> oil out that way.
>
> Haven't actually tried it on the CJ8 yet because when the problem
> occurred I pulled the plug and let it drain. This method did not work
> on my TrailBlazer because I couldn't get the siphon tube far enough
> down in the engine; seemed to work well on a1999 Mercedes and my 1990
> Cherokee.
>
> I'm defining 'work well' as it appeared to get just as much oil out of
> the engine as I got before with the draining method.
>
> Always trying new ways of doing old things .. any other opinions of
> course appreciated.
>
> Mike
>>
>>Or, take the filter off and pour some oil out, then put it back on?
>>
>>Or, disconnect the oil pipe on the side of the filter mount, crank the
>>motor
>>over a couple of times, then reconnect the pipe?
>>
>>These are three easier ways to get oil out of a motor than trying to suck
>>it
>>out through the dip stick hole.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> However, he used some plastic tubing to get the sample through the
>>> dipstick tube, got it caught somehow when pulling it out, and broke
>>> off an unknown quantity in the pan.
>>>
>>
>>Any plastic that small would get pulverized, and trapped inside the
>>filter.
>>I'd suggest that this is not the serious problem yo are worried about.
>>
>>

Re: 1982 CJ8 6cyl Oil Pan gasket/kit? Oil pump?
 

Jeff,

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 20:22:07 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
<crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:

>If you are able to do an oil change, then you care able to pull the drain
>plug and catch a sample. If you are not able to change the oil, then the
>shop where you go for an oil change can capture a sample for you.
>
You are correct, of course and that's what I've always done ---- until
this time.

I can still manage to get underneath and work when I have to .. but as
with a couple of longtime most helpful and most knowledgeable others
here on this group who have had physical injury I've got to learn to
adapt when I can. (You guys know who I'm talking about .. maybe we
should start a thread on how to mechanic when injured?!)

And of course one of the reasons I bought and kept as original owner a
90 Cherokee and 82 Scrambler is because I like to mechanic.

I also have quite a few other people who've grown to count on me too
... so if this new method works I will be happier.

And I am cursed with limitless curiosity so I'm always looking for
new and different and (maybe)better ways to do things.

>Either way, you avoid getting foreign objects broken off inside the
>crankcase.
>
You are very correct here too, of course. In this particular instance
a friend tried to do this for me.

My solution in the future is to do it myself.

The second reason I do it myself is that I've found very few mechanics
(and I was one at a very good Dealership years ago before "mechanics"
became "technicians") who can afford to take the time and care and
effort that I do and still make a good living.

Thank goodness for this group and helpful, mostly VERY helpful folks
here! Because I can ask things I don't know; or about things that
have changed. So you are really very much appreciated by me.

>Good luck.
Thanks ....

Mike
>
>
><mp@murklagoon.com> wrote in message
>news:f5esn3hbipjohruvnp06j67jduq2po8aal@4ax.com.. .
>> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 00:15:27 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
>> <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><mp@murklagoon.com> wrote in message
>>>news:k01in3ht4hv5880aha7c0u626gffiuivvf@4ax.com ...
>>>>A friend was trying to help me siphon some oil from my Scrambler to
>>>> get an oil analysis done. (Analysis came back fine.)
>>>>
>>>
>>>Why not just pull the plug and catch a little, then put the plug back in?
>> That's what I've always done .. until the spinal cord injury. Now I
>> have difficulty working under any vehicle.
>>
>> After the injury I started thinking of alternative way of doing lots
>> of things.
>>
>> 30+ years working in Underwater Archaeology and Scientific Diving
>> living around expensive boats where it is not possible to get
>> underneath engines and watching high-end car dealers siphon oil from
>> dipsticks made me start thinking. So I did a little research, thought
>> I'd try it and got a tank that uses air from my compressorto pull the
>> oil out that way.
>>
>> Haven't actually tried it on the CJ8 yet because when the problem
>> occurred I pulled the plug and let it drain. This method did not work
>> on my TrailBlazer because I couldn't get the siphon tube far enough
>> down in the engine; seemed to work well on a1999 Mercedes and my 1990
>> Cherokee.
>>
>> I'm defining 'work well' as it appeared to get just as much oil out of
>> the engine as I got before with the draining method.
>>
>> Always trying new ways of doing old things .. any other opinions of
>> course appreciated.
>>
>> Mike
>>>
>>>Or, take the filter off and pour some oil out, then put it back on?
>>>
>>>Or, disconnect the oil pipe on the side of the filter mount, crank the
>>>motor
>>>over a couple of times, then reconnect the pipe?
>>>
>>>These are three easier ways to get oil out of a motor than trying to suck
>>>it
>>>out through the dip stick hole.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> However, he used some plastic tubing to get the sample through the
>>>> dipstick tube, got it caught somehow when pulling it out, and broke
>>>> off an unknown quantity in the pan.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Any plastic that small would get pulverized, and trapped inside the
>>>filter.
>>>I'd suggest that this is not the serious problem yo are worried about.
>>>
>>>

Re: 1982 CJ8 6cyl Oil Pan gasket/kit? Oil pump?
 

On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 19:14:30 -0800 (PST), michael.white@charter.net
wrote:

OK thanks for the update on the one piece gasket .. I got the one
piece gasket (NAPA folks including their regional manager didn't even
know they exist).

Got under .. observed that I need to pull the starter; pulled, no big
deal.

Now the "engine mount"; Need just a little more clearance and I see
it has to come off or at the very least come loose .. so I read the
Factory manual and do some Internet searching -- lots of suggestions.
One person even uses an engine lift.

The Jeep manual seems to be the easiest way .. though I don't see how
it could actually work without doing damage while the Left mount is
remains attached. That "Official" Jeep CJ8 manual says:
"(a) Place jack under transmission."
"(b) Disconnect engine right support cushion bracket from block and
raise engine to allow sufficient clearance for oil pan removal."

"Remove oil plan."

So I do all that and VERY TENTATIVELY place my good floor jack under
the transmission; lift the jack until it has slight pressure on the
tranny. Then I applied a little pressure, a little more, then just a
little more. The jack definitely has taken a load; but absolutely no
sign of movement at the right engine mount. (Should I jack up some
more??)

So I stop; leaving the jack under the transmission.

I decide I must have to actually remove the mount .. so I remove the
cross-brace and the mount to frame bolts (jack to tranny still holding
pressure). Then I say .. whoa, think this through.

I reread some of the Internet posts and see that at least a couple use
a 2/4 board under the front crank pulley for safety. (I guess they
put that there after the mount is removed?) Then I think about how
much problem it 'might' be to realign the engine/ engine mount/frame.
Didn't see a mention of doing anything with the left motor mount. One
person mentioned putting the jack under the oil pan with a 2X4 piece
of wood for a cushion .. don't see how that works because the jack
would have to come off with the motor mount removed in order to remove
the pan itself.

This cannot be this difficult, can it??

So now I return again to this group for expertise and to learn how to
do it right without damaging the CJ (or myself).

Please .. how do I do this correctly. Please, please .. do it for me
like a ** How to R&R the right front motor mount on a CJ8 in order to
R&R the oil Pan gasket".

I have pressure on me to have this CJ running by Friday and crunch
time is now here?!

Thanks ......

>On Dec 31 2007, 11:20 am, m...@murklagoon.com wrote:
>> A friend was trying to help me siphon some oil from my Scrambler to
>> get an oil analysis done. (Analysis came back fine.)
>>
>> However, he used some plastic tubing to get the sample through the
>> dipstick tube, got it caught somehow when pulling it out, and broke
>> off an unknown quantity in the pan.
>>
>> So I assume I must drop the pan and remove whatever plastic tubing
>> remains before starting the motor.
>>
>> Question #1: Since I'm already in there should I replace the oil
>> pump? As far as I know the existing (and original) pump is working
>> fine; and the engine has only 55,000 original miles.
>>
>> Question #1a: If you think I should replace the oil pump -- is there
>> a recommended replacement pump/brand/part??
>>
>> Question #2: I have not dropped the pan yet. What gasket/gasket kit
>> do you recommend I get? And what type sealer (if any) should I be
>> using??
>>
>> I apologize for asking such basic questions but I haven't been doing
>> much mechanicing for quite a while and don't know for sure how it
>> should be done with today's parts. Advice on this forum has been very
>> helpful numerous times .. so any suggestions will be most appreciated
>> ......
>>
>> Thanks ....
>>
>> Mike
>
>Mike,
>
>For #2, Napa sells a one piece gasket that works pretty good. I put
>one on when I changed engines. No sealer required, which means you
>won't need to replace it if you need to drop the oil pan again.
>
>Michael