cjarnesen

I guess I should be clearer. I didn't drill out just the VIN. The
mounting plate that it is mounted to was riveted to my window frame.
So I drilled out those rivets. For some reason I there were no bolts I
could undo. The three for the motor helped, but it was hanging on by
one last rivet, looked like one had rattled loose over the years. So
on the new frame I'll bolt it up, and it'll match the paint, and look
factory so i don't think it will be an issue. But I appreciate the
info. The VIN is other places on the jeep that haven't been messed
with, so I'm not too worried. Thanks

-CJ


Mike Romain wrote:
> Ummm, just so you know, you just turned your Jeep into a serious 'heat
> score' by drilling those rivets out.... They are a special shape and
> signify 'original' instead of replacements which signify 'stolen'. Most
> cops are very aware of this so you better have all the right paperwork
> with you.
>
> That VIN tag sits on a plate that sits behind the wiper motor and you
> just swap the whole plate out. I know some areas have motor vehicle
> branches that can reinstall that VIN using the proper rivets. I was
> also told that the black market price for the rivets was around $100.00
> each.
>
> That color chart is strange....
>
> I checked my CJ7 out and mine was 'apparently' charcoal metallic. I
> have had all of my jeep apart and most parts down to bare metal and the
> only black on it was the dash panel. The sucker was a 'barbie' Jeep
> according to the paint I found. Hot purple trimmed with hot pink, then
> gray, then metallic blue/green....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> cjarnesen wrote:
> >
> > I'll have to check. I have some stickers there, but they are all
> > newer. My Jeep had an engine swap done in 1995. So all the required
> > DMV emissions stuff is there on the tub under the door. I'll look to
> > see if there is an original sticker, but I don't remember seeing one.
> > I have a cover over the cab right now so I can't look. One place my
> > VIN was, was on the windshield frame riveted under the wiper motor
> > mount. Because I'm replacing my windshield, I had to drill out the
> > rivets to keep my VIN plate. I know its on the plate in the engine as
> > well.
> >
> > Just went and got my glass for the new frame. The new frame is due
> > pretty soon. Can't wait to paint it and get my jeep all fixed back up.
> >
> > Lee Ayrton wrote:
> > > Glad to help, and thanks for letting us know how you made out. My `79 CJ
> > > is in storage for the winter so I can't look but, just out of idle
> > > curiosity, did Jeep still put a VIN/nomenclature/tire pressure sticker on
> > > the dash or body tub near the driver seat by `81? I'm wondering if the
> > > paint code also appears there.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
> > >
> > > > well, success. 1E it is, good guess lee. I braved the storm, and
> > > > years of engine bay grease to fine the tag under the near MC. There it
> > > > was 1E. Thanks again!
> > > >
> > > > -CJ
> > > >
> > > > Lee Ayrton wrote:
> > > >> http://www.cjoffroad.com/writeup.asp?WU_ID=30&noAdd=1
> > > >>
> > > >> [quote]-----------------------------
> > > >> On your VIN tag under your hood on the firewall (below the brake master
> > > >> cylinder) there is a two digit number on the second row, in the middle.
> > > >> This is the Paint Code.
> > > >> [unquot]----------------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> From the way your picture appears on my monitor, I'm guessing "1E" Copper
> > > >> Brown Metallic.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, 26 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hey all. I've been on an internet journey trying to find the proper
> > > >>> paint color for my 1981 CJ7. I busted the windshield and windshield
> > > >>> frame last trip to Hollister, so now its time to paint the new
> > > >>> windshield frame as well as my hood. The paint is stock. It is a
> > > >>> burgundy orange color. My friends call it rust orange. Any idea as to
> > > >>> the color? The link below is a pic, it might help.
> > > >>> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=IMG_2073.jpg
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I've been having trouble locating the paint code via where it is
> > > >>> supposed to be. Is it in the vin?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks for the help, and any tips on where to get the paint. I have a
> > > >>> spray gun and compressor, so I should be set there. Also need to make
> > > >>> sure to get the proper primer. Thank you!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -CJ
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
> > > >> whips....r"
> > > >> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
> > > whips....r"
> > > R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.

cjarnesen

I guess I should be clearer. I didn't drill out just the VIN. The
mounting plate that it is mounted to was riveted to my window frame.
So I drilled out those rivets. For some reason I there were no bolts I
could undo. The three for the motor helped, but it was hanging on by
one last rivet, looked like one had rattled loose over the years. So
on the new frame I'll bolt it up, and it'll match the paint, and look
factory so i don't think it will be an issue. But I appreciate the
info. The VIN is other places on the jeep that haven't been messed
with, so I'm not too worried. Thanks

-CJ


Mike Romain wrote:
> Ummm, just so you know, you just turned your Jeep into a serious 'heat
> score' by drilling those rivets out.... They are a special shape and
> signify 'original' instead of replacements which signify 'stolen'. Most
> cops are very aware of this so you better have all the right paperwork
> with you.
>
> That VIN tag sits on a plate that sits behind the wiper motor and you
> just swap the whole plate out. I know some areas have motor vehicle
> branches that can reinstall that VIN using the proper rivets. I was
> also told that the black market price for the rivets was around $100.00
> each.
>
> That color chart is strange....
>
> I checked my CJ7 out and mine was 'apparently' charcoal metallic. I
> have had all of my jeep apart and most parts down to bare metal and the
> only black on it was the dash panel. The sucker was a 'barbie' Jeep
> according to the paint I found. Hot purple trimmed with hot pink, then
> gray, then metallic blue/green....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> cjarnesen wrote:
> >
> > I'll have to check. I have some stickers there, but they are all
> > newer. My Jeep had an engine swap done in 1995. So all the required
> > DMV emissions stuff is there on the tub under the door. I'll look to
> > see if there is an original sticker, but I don't remember seeing one.
> > I have a cover over the cab right now so I can't look. One place my
> > VIN was, was on the windshield frame riveted under the wiper motor
> > mount. Because I'm replacing my windshield, I had to drill out the
> > rivets to keep my VIN plate. I know its on the plate in the engine as
> > well.
> >
> > Just went and got my glass for the new frame. The new frame is due
> > pretty soon. Can't wait to paint it and get my jeep all fixed back up.
> >
> > Lee Ayrton wrote:
> > > Glad to help, and thanks for letting us know how you made out. My `79 CJ
> > > is in storage for the winter so I can't look but, just out of idle
> > > curiosity, did Jeep still put a VIN/nomenclature/tire pressure sticker on
> > > the dash or body tub near the driver seat by `81? I'm wondering if the
> > > paint code also appears there.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
> > >
> > > > well, success. 1E it is, good guess lee. I braved the storm, and
> > > > years of engine bay grease to fine the tag under the near MC. There it
> > > > was 1E. Thanks again!
> > > >
> > > > -CJ
> > > >
> > > > Lee Ayrton wrote:
> > > >> http://www.cjoffroad.com/writeup.asp?WU_ID=30&noAdd=1
> > > >>
> > > >> [quote]-----------------------------
> > > >> On your VIN tag under your hood on the firewall (below the brake master
> > > >> cylinder) there is a two digit number on the second row, in the middle.
> > > >> This is the Paint Code.
> > > >> [unquot]----------------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> From the way your picture appears on my monitor, I'm guessing "1E" Copper
> > > >> Brown Metallic.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, 26 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hey all. I've been on an internet journey trying to find the proper
> > > >>> paint color for my 1981 CJ7. I busted the windshield and windshield
> > > >>> frame last trip to Hollister, so now its time to paint the new
> > > >>> windshield frame as well as my hood. The paint is stock. It is a
> > > >>> burgundy orange color. My friends call it rust orange. Any idea as to
> > > >>> the color? The link below is a pic, it might help.
> > > >>> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=IMG_2073.jpg
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I've been having trouble locating the paint code via where it is
> > > >>> supposed to be. Is it in the vin?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks for the help, and any tips on where to get the paint. I have a
> > > >>> spray gun and compressor, so I should be set there. Also need to make
> > > >>> sure to get the proper primer. Thank you!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -CJ
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
> > > >> whips....r"
> > > >> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
> > > whips....r"
> > > R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.

cjarnesen

I guess I should be clearer. I didn't drill out just the VIN. The
mounting plate that it is mounted to was riveted to my window frame.
So I drilled out those rivets. For some reason I there were no bolts I
could undo. The three for the motor helped, but it was hanging on by
one last rivet, looked like one had rattled loose over the years. So
on the new frame I'll bolt it up, and it'll match the paint, and look
factory so i don't think it will be an issue. But I appreciate the
info. The VIN is other places on the jeep that haven't been messed
with, so I'm not too worried. Thanks

-CJ


Mike Romain wrote:
> Ummm, just so you know, you just turned your Jeep into a serious 'heat
> score' by drilling those rivets out.... They are a special shape and
> signify 'original' instead of replacements which signify 'stolen'. Most
> cops are very aware of this so you better have all the right paperwork
> with you.
>
> That VIN tag sits on a plate that sits behind the wiper motor and you
> just swap the whole plate out. I know some areas have motor vehicle
> branches that can reinstall that VIN using the proper rivets. I was
> also told that the black market price for the rivets was around $100.00
> each.
>
> That color chart is strange....
>
> I checked my CJ7 out and mine was 'apparently' charcoal metallic. I
> have had all of my jeep apart and most parts down to bare metal and the
> only black on it was the dash panel. The sucker was a 'barbie' Jeep
> according to the paint I found. Hot purple trimmed with hot pink, then
> gray, then metallic blue/green....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> cjarnesen wrote:
> >
> > I'll have to check. I have some stickers there, but they are all
> > newer. My Jeep had an engine swap done in 1995. So all the required
> > DMV emissions stuff is there on the tub under the door. I'll look to
> > see if there is an original sticker, but I don't remember seeing one.
> > I have a cover over the cab right now so I can't look. One place my
> > VIN was, was on the windshield frame riveted under the wiper motor
> > mount. Because I'm replacing my windshield, I had to drill out the
> > rivets to keep my VIN plate. I know its on the plate in the engine as
> > well.
> >
> > Just went and got my glass for the new frame. The new frame is due
> > pretty soon. Can't wait to paint it and get my jeep all fixed back up.
> >
> > Lee Ayrton wrote:
> > > Glad to help, and thanks for letting us know how you made out. My `79 CJ
> > > is in storage for the winter so I can't look but, just out of idle
> > > curiosity, did Jeep still put a VIN/nomenclature/tire pressure sticker on
> > > the dash or body tub near the driver seat by `81? I'm wondering if the
> > > paint code also appears there.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
> > >
> > > > well, success. 1E it is, good guess lee. I braved the storm, and
> > > > years of engine bay grease to fine the tag under the near MC. There it
> > > > was 1E. Thanks again!
> > > >
> > > > -CJ
> > > >
> > > > Lee Ayrton wrote:
> > > >> http://www.cjoffroad.com/writeup.asp?WU_ID=30&noAdd=1
> > > >>
> > > >> [quote]-----------------------------
> > > >> On your VIN tag under your hood on the firewall (below the brake master
> > > >> cylinder) there is a two digit number on the second row, in the middle.
> > > >> This is the Paint Code.
> > > >> [unquot]----------------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> From the way your picture appears on my monitor, I'm guessing "1E" Copper
> > > >> Brown Metallic.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, 26 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hey all. I've been on an internet journey trying to find the proper
> > > >>> paint color for my 1981 CJ7. I busted the windshield and windshield
> > > >>> frame last trip to Hollister, so now its time to paint the new
> > > >>> windshield frame as well as my hood. The paint is stock. It is a
> > > >>> burgundy orange color. My friends call it rust orange. Any idea as to
> > > >>> the color? The link below is a pic, it might help.
> > > >>> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=IMG_2073.jpg
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I've been having trouble locating the paint code via where it is
> > > >>> supposed to be. Is it in the vin?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks for the help, and any tips on where to get the paint. I have a
> > > >>> spray gun and compressor, so I should be set there. Also need to make
> > > >>> sure to get the proper primer. Thank you!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -CJ
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
> > > >> whips....r"
> > > >> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
> > > whips....r"
> > > R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.

Mike Romain

That's cool. They just see the rivets in the VIN tag itself, they don't
care about the aftermarket frame.

There are a bunch of 'bad' stamps out there for the CJ windshield
frames. The hole for the drivers side wiper shaft is in the wrong place
by about 1/8" and it is extremely thin. This means if you lift the
wiper for washing the windshield, the frame can bend just the slightest
which makes the linkage overcenter and jam.

I would measure the new one 'very' carefully, if it is a bad one it is a
serious pain in the butt to deal with. I had a 4 hour drive in the
pissing rain with only a pair of vise grips on the inside of one wiper's
linkage to hand wipe the windshield.

I reinforced mine with custom cut stainless washers and it held for a
year or two, then gave up again. I ended up cutting a plate out of my
old frame where the hole is and moving that whole plate over to the new
frame to get a stronger piece of metal (vintage 1986) located in the
'correct' place for the linkage to work right.

It has held for several years now.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

cjarnesen wrote:
>
> I guess I should be clearer. I didn't drill out just the VIN. The
> mounting plate that it is mounted to was riveted to my window frame.
> So I drilled out those rivets. For some reason I there were no bolts I
> could undo. The three for the motor helped, but it was hanging on by
> one last rivet, looked like one had rattled loose over the years. So
> on the new frame I'll bolt it up, and it'll match the paint, and look
> factory so i don't think it will be an issue. But I appreciate the
> info. The VIN is other places on the jeep that haven't been messed
> with, so I'm not too worried. Thanks
>
> -CJ
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > Ummm, just so you know, you just turned your Jeep into a serious 'heat
> > score' by drilling those rivets out.... They are a special shape and
> > signify 'original' instead of replacements which signify 'stolen'. Most
> > cops are very aware of this so you better have all the right paperwork
> > with you.
> >
> > That VIN tag sits on a plate that sits behind the wiper motor and you
> > just swap the whole plate out. I know some areas have motor vehicle
> > branches that can reinstall that VIN using the proper rivets. I was
> > also told that the black market price for the rivets was around $100.00
> > each.
> >
> > That color chart is strange....
> >
> > I checked my CJ7 out and mine was 'apparently' charcoal metallic. I
> > have had all of my jeep apart and most parts down to bare metal and the
> > only black on it was the dash panel. The sucker was a 'barbie' Jeep
> > according to the paint I found. Hot purple trimmed with hot pink, then
> > gray, then metallic blue/green....
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > cjarnesen wrote:
> > >
> > > I'll have to check. I have some stickers there, but they are all
> > > newer. My Jeep had an engine swap done in 1995. So all the required
> > > DMV emissions stuff is there on the tub under the door. I'll look to
> > > see if there is an original sticker, but I don't remember seeing one.
> > > I have a cover over the cab right now so I can't look. One place my
> > > VIN was, was on the windshield frame riveted under the wiper motor
> > > mount. Because I'm replacing my windshield, I had to drill out the
> > > rivets to keep my VIN plate. I know its on the plate in the engine as
> > > well.
> > >
> > > Just went and got my glass for the new frame. The new frame is due
> > > pretty soon. Can't wait to paint it and get my jeep all fixed back up.
> > >
> > > Lee Ayrton wrote:
> > > > Glad to help, and thanks for letting us know how you made out. My `79 CJ
> > > > is in storage for the winter so I can't look but, just out of idle
> > > > curiosity, did Jeep still put a VIN/nomenclature/tire pressure sticker on
> > > > the dash or body tub near the driver seat by `81? I'm wondering if the
> > > > paint code also appears there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > well, success. 1E it is, good guess lee. I braved the storm, and
> > > > > years of engine bay grease to fine the tag under the near MC. There it
> > > > > was 1E. Thanks again!
> > > > >
> > > > > -CJ
> > > > >
> > > > > Lee Ayrton wrote:
> > > > >> http://www.cjoffroad.com/writeup.asp?WU_ID=30&noAdd=1
> > > > >>
> > > > >> [quote]-----------------------------
> > > > >> On your VIN tag under your hood on the firewall (below the brake master
> > > > >> cylinder) there is a two digit number on the second row, in the middle.
> > > > >> This is the Paint Code.
> > > > >> [unquot]----------------------------
> > > > >>
> > > > >> From the way your picture appears on my monitor, I'm guessing "1E" Copper
> > > > >> Brown Metallic.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Tue, 26 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Hey all. I've been on an internet journey trying to find the proper
> > > > >>> paint color for my 1981 CJ7. I busted the windshield and windshield
> > > > >>> frame last trip to Hollister, so now its time to paint the new
> > > > >>> windshield frame as well as my hood. The paint is stock. It is a
> > > > >>> burgundy orange color. My friends call it rust orange. Any idea as to
> > > > >>> the color? The link below is a pic, it might help.
> > > > >>> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=IMG_2073.jpg
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I've been having trouble locating the paint code via where it is
> > > > >>> supposed to be. Is it in the vin?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Thanks for the help, and any tips on where to get the paint. I have a
> > > > >>> spray gun and compressor, so I should be set there. Also need to make
> > > > >>> sure to get the proper primer. Thank you!
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -CJ
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
> > > > >> whips....r"
> > > > >> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
> > > > whips....r"
> > > > R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.

Mike Romain

That's cool. They just see the rivets in the VIN tag itself, they don't
care about the aftermarket frame.

There are a bunch of 'bad' stamps out there for the CJ windshield
frames. The hole for the drivers side wiper shaft is in the wrong place
by about 1/8" and it is extremely thin. This means if you lift the
wiper for washing the windshield, the frame can bend just the slightest
which makes the linkage overcenter and jam.

I would measure the new one 'very' carefully, if it is a bad one it is a
serious pain in the butt to deal with. I had a 4 hour drive in the
pissing rain with only a pair of vise grips on the inside of one wiper's
linkage to hand wipe the windshield.

I reinforced mine with custom cut stainless washers and it held for a
year or two, then gave up again. I ended up cutting a plate out of my
old frame where the hole is and moving that whole plate over to the new
frame to get a stronger piece of metal (vintage 1986) located in the
'correct' place for the linkage to work right.

It has held for several years now.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

cjarnesen wrote:
>
> I guess I should be clearer. I didn't drill out just the VIN. The
> mounting plate that it is mounted to was riveted to my window frame.
> So I drilled out those rivets. For some reason I there were no bolts I
> could undo. The three for the motor helped, but it was hanging on by
> one last rivet, looked like one had rattled loose over the years. So
> on the new frame I'll bolt it up, and it'll match the paint, and look
> factory so i don't think it will be an issue. But I appreciate the
> info. The VIN is other places on the jeep that haven't been messed
> with, so I'm not too worried. Thanks
>
> -CJ
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > Ummm, just so you know, you just turned your Jeep into a serious 'heat
> > score' by drilling those rivets out.... They are a special shape and
> > signify 'original' instead of replacements which signify 'stolen'. Most
> > cops are very aware of this so you better have all the right paperwork
> > with you.
> >
> > That VIN tag sits on a plate that sits behind the wiper motor and you
> > just swap the whole plate out. I know some areas have motor vehicle
> > branches that can reinstall that VIN using the proper rivets. I was
> > also told that the black market price for the rivets was around $100.00
> > each.
> >
> > That color chart is strange....
> >
> > I checked my CJ7 out and mine was 'apparently' charcoal metallic. I
> > have had all of my jeep apart and most parts down to bare metal and the
> > only black on it was the dash panel. The sucker was a 'barbie' Jeep
> > according to the paint I found. Hot purple trimmed with hot pink, then
> > gray, then metallic blue/green....
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > cjarnesen wrote:
> > >
> > > I'll have to check. I have some stickers there, but they are all
> > > newer. My Jeep had an engine swap done in 1995. So all the required
> > > DMV emissions stuff is there on the tub under the door. I'll look to
> > > see if there is an original sticker, but I don't remember seeing one.
> > > I have a cover over the cab right now so I can't look. One place my
> > > VIN was, was on the windshield frame riveted under the wiper motor
> > > mount. Because I'm replacing my windshield, I had to drill out the
> > > rivets to keep my VIN plate. I know its on the plate in the engine as
> > > well.
> > >
> > > Just went and got my glass for the new frame. The new frame is due
> > > pretty soon. Can't wait to paint it and get my jeep all fixed back up.
> > >
> > > Lee Ayrton wrote:
> > > > Glad to help, and thanks for letting us know how you made out. My `79 CJ
> > > > is in storage for the winter so I can't look but, just out of idle
> > > > curiosity, did Jeep still put a VIN/nomenclature/tire pressure sticker on
> > > > the dash or body tub near the driver seat by `81? I'm wondering if the
> > > > paint code also appears there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > well, success. 1E it is, good guess lee. I braved the storm, and
> > > > > years of engine bay grease to fine the tag under the near MC. There it
> > > > > was 1E. Thanks again!
> > > > >
> > > > > -CJ
> > > > >
> > > > > Lee Ayrton wrote:
> > > > >> http://www.cjoffroad.com/writeup.asp?WU_ID=30&noAdd=1
> > > > >>
> > > > >> [quote]-----------------------------
> > > > >> On your VIN tag under your hood on the firewall (below the brake master
> > > > >> cylinder) there is a two digit number on the second row, in the middle.
> > > > >> This is the Paint Code.
> > > > >> [unquot]----------------------------
> > > > >>
> > > > >> From the way your picture appears on my monitor, I'm guessing "1E" Copper
> > > > >> Brown Metallic.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Tue, 26 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Hey all. I've been on an internet journey trying to find the proper
> > > > >>> paint color for my 1981 CJ7. I busted the windshield and windshield
> > > > >>> frame last trip to Hollister, so now its time to paint the new
> > > > >>> windshield frame as well as my hood. The paint is stock. It is a
> > > > >>> burgundy orange color. My friends call it rust orange. Any idea as to
> > > > >>> the color? The link below is a pic, it might help.
> > > > >>> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=IMG_2073.jpg
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I've been having trouble locating the paint code via where it is
> > > > >>> supposed to be. Is it in the vin?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Thanks for the help, and any tips on where to get the paint. I have a
> > > > >>> spray gun and compressor, so I should be set there. Also need to make
> > > > >>> sure to get the proper primer. Thank you!
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -CJ
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
> > > > >> whips....r"
> > > > >> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
> > > > whips....r"
> > > > R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.

Mike Romain

That's cool. They just see the rivets in the VIN tag itself, they don't
care about the aftermarket frame.

There are a bunch of 'bad' stamps out there for the CJ windshield
frames. The hole for the drivers side wiper shaft is in the wrong place
by about 1/8" and it is extremely thin. This means if you lift the
wiper for washing the windshield, the frame can bend just the slightest
which makes the linkage overcenter and jam.

I would measure the new one 'very' carefully, if it is a bad one it is a
serious pain in the butt to deal with. I had a 4 hour drive in the
pissing rain with only a pair of vise grips on the inside of one wiper's
linkage to hand wipe the windshield.

I reinforced mine with custom cut stainless washers and it held for a
year or two, then gave up again. I ended up cutting a plate out of my
old frame where the hole is and moving that whole plate over to the new
frame to get a stronger piece of metal (vintage 1986) located in the
'correct' place for the linkage to work right.

It has held for several years now.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

cjarnesen wrote:
>
> I guess I should be clearer. I didn't drill out just the VIN. The
> mounting plate that it is mounted to was riveted to my window frame.
> So I drilled out those rivets. For some reason I there were no bolts I
> could undo. The three for the motor helped, but it was hanging on by
> one last rivet, looked like one had rattled loose over the years. So
> on the new frame I'll bolt it up, and it'll match the paint, and look
> factory so i don't think it will be an issue. But I appreciate the
> info. The VIN is other places on the jeep that haven't been messed
> with, so I'm not too worried. Thanks
>
> -CJ
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > Ummm, just so you know, you just turned your Jeep into a serious 'heat
> > score' by drilling those rivets out.... They are a special shape and
> > signify 'original' instead of replacements which signify 'stolen'. Most
> > cops are very aware of this so you better have all the right paperwork
> > with you.
> >
> > That VIN tag sits on a plate that sits behind the wiper motor and you
> > just swap the whole plate out. I know some areas have motor vehicle
> > branches that can reinstall that VIN using the proper rivets. I was
> > also told that the black market price for the rivets was around $100.00
> > each.
> >
> > That color chart is strange....
> >
> > I checked my CJ7 out and mine was 'apparently' charcoal metallic. I
> > have had all of my jeep apart and most parts down to bare metal and the
> > only black on it was the dash panel. The sucker was a 'barbie' Jeep
> > according to the paint I found. Hot purple trimmed with hot pink, then
> > gray, then metallic blue/green....
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > cjarnesen wrote:
> > >
> > > I'll have to check. I have some stickers there, but they are all
> > > newer. My Jeep had an engine swap done in 1995. So all the required
> > > DMV emissions stuff is there on the tub under the door. I'll look to
> > > see if there is an original sticker, but I don't remember seeing one.
> > > I have a cover over the cab right now so I can't look. One place my
> > > VIN was, was on the windshield frame riveted under the wiper motor
> > > mount. Because I'm replacing my windshield, I had to drill out the
> > > rivets to keep my VIN plate. I know its on the plate in the engine as
> > > well.
> > >
> > > Just went and got my glass for the new frame. The new frame is due
> > > pretty soon. Can't wait to paint it and get my jeep all fixed back up.
> > >
> > > Lee Ayrton wrote:
> > > > Glad to help, and thanks for letting us know how you made out. My `79 CJ
> > > > is in storage for the winter so I can't look but, just out of idle
> > > > curiosity, did Jeep still put a VIN/nomenclature/tire pressure sticker on
> > > > the dash or body tub near the driver seat by `81? I'm wondering if the
> > > > paint code also appears there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > well, success. 1E it is, good guess lee. I braved the storm, and
> > > > > years of engine bay grease to fine the tag under the near MC. There it
> > > > > was 1E. Thanks again!
> > > > >
> > > > > -CJ
> > > > >
> > > > > Lee Ayrton wrote:
> > > > >> http://www.cjoffroad.com/writeup.asp?WU_ID=30&noAdd=1
> > > > >>
> > > > >> [quote]-----------------------------
> > > > >> On your VIN tag under your hood on the firewall (below the brake master
> > > > >> cylinder) there is a two digit number on the second row, in the middle.
> > > > >> This is the Paint Code.
> > > > >> [unquot]----------------------------
> > > > >>
> > > > >> From the way your picture appears on my monitor, I'm guessing "1E" Copper
> > > > >> Brown Metallic.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Tue, 26 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Hey all. I've been on an internet journey trying to find the proper
> > > > >>> paint color for my 1981 CJ7. I busted the windshield and windshield
> > > > >>> frame last trip to Hollister, so now its time to paint the new
> > > > >>> windshield frame as well as my hood. The paint is stock. It is a
> > > > >>> burgundy orange color. My friends call it rust orange. Any idea as to
> > > > >>> the color? The link below is a pic, it might help.
> > > > >>> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=IMG_2073.jpg
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I've been having trouble locating the paint code via where it is
> > > > >>> supposed to be. Is it in the vin?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Thanks for the help, and any tips on where to get the paint. I have a
> > > > >>> spray gun and compressor, so I should be set there. Also need to make
> > > > >>> sure to get the proper primer. Thank you!
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -CJ
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
> > > > >> whips....r"
> > > > >> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
> > > > whips....r"
> > > > R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.

Lee Ayrton

On the other hand, only a Jeepin' cop would know where to find the VIN
plates on a CJ that's a quarter century old. My `79 never had a VIN tag
on the wiper mounting plate, it appears only on the firewall tag and the
nomenclature sticker on the dash.


On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Mike Romain wrote:

> Ummm, just so you know, you just turned your Jeep into a serious 'heat
> score' by drilling those rivets out.... They are a special shape and
> signify 'original' instead of replacements which signify 'stolen'. Most
> cops are very aware of this so you better have all the right paperwork
> with you.
>
> That VIN tag sits on a plate that sits behind the wiper motor and you
> just swap the whole plate out. I know some areas have motor vehicle
> branches that can reinstall that VIN using the proper rivets. I was
> also told that the black market price for the rivets was around $100.00
> each.
>
> That color chart is strange....
>
> I checked my CJ7 out and mine was 'apparently' charcoal metallic. I
> have had all of my jeep apart and most parts down to bare metal and the
> only black on it was the dash panel. The sucker was a 'barbie' Jeep
> according to the paint I found. Hot purple trimmed with hot pink, then
> gray, then metallic blue/green....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> cjarnesen wrote:
>>
>> I'll have to check. I have some stickers there, but they are all
>> newer. My Jeep had an engine swap done in 1995. So all the required
>> DMV emissions stuff is there on the tub under the door. I'll look to
>> see if there is an original sticker, but I don't remember seeing one.
>> I have a cover over the cab right now so I can't look. One place my
>> VIN was, was on the windshield frame riveted under the wiper motor
>> mount. Because I'm replacing my windshield, I had to drill out the
>> rivets to keep my VIN plate. I know its on the plate in the engine as
>> well.
>>
>> Just went and got my glass for the new frame. The new frame is due
>> pretty soon. Can't wait to paint it and get my jeep all fixed back up.
>>
>> Lee Ayrton wrote:
>>> Glad to help, and thanks for letting us know how you made out. My `79 CJ
>>> is in storage for the winter so I can't look but, just out of idle
>>> curiosity, did Jeep still put a VIN/nomenclature/tire pressure sticker on
>>> the dash or body tub near the driver seat by `81? I'm wondering if the
>>> paint code also appears there.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
>>>
>>>> well, success. 1E it is, good guess lee. I braved the storm, and
>>>> years of engine bay grease to fine the tag under the near MC. There it
>>>> was 1E. Thanks again!
>>>>
>>>> -CJ
>>>>
>>>> Lee Ayrton wrote:
>>>>> http://www.cjoffroad.com/writeup.asp?WU_ID=30&noAdd=1
>>>>>
>>>>> [quote]-----------------------------
>>>>> On your VIN tag under your hood on the firewall (below the brake master
>>>>> cylinder) there is a two digit number on the second row, in the middle.
>>>>> This is the Paint Code.
>>>>> [unquot]----------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> From the way your picture appears on my monitor, I'm guessing "1E" Copper
>>>>> Brown Metallic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 26 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey all. I've been on an internet journey trying to find the proper
>>>>>> paint color for my 1981 CJ7. I busted the windshield and windshield
>>>>>> frame last trip to Hollister, so now its time to paint the new
>>>>>> windshield frame as well as my hood. The paint is stock. It is a
>>>>>> burgundy orange color. My friends call it rust orange. Any idea as to
>>>>>> the color? The link below is a pic, it might help.
>>>>>> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=IMG_2073.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been having trouble locating the paint code via where it is
>>>>>> supposed to be. Is it in the vin?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the help, and any tips on where to get the paint. I have a
>>>>>> spray gun and compressor, so I should be set there. Also need to make
>>>>>> sure to get the proper primer. Thank you!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -CJ
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
>>>>> whips....r"
>>>>> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
>>> whips....r"
>>> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.
>

--
"I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
whips....r"
R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.

Lee Ayrton

On the other hand, only a Jeepin' cop would know where to find the VIN
plates on a CJ that's a quarter century old. My `79 never had a VIN tag
on the wiper mounting plate, it appears only on the firewall tag and the
nomenclature sticker on the dash.


On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Mike Romain wrote:

> Ummm, just so you know, you just turned your Jeep into a serious 'heat
> score' by drilling those rivets out.... They are a special shape and
> signify 'original' instead of replacements which signify 'stolen'. Most
> cops are very aware of this so you better have all the right paperwork
> with you.
>
> That VIN tag sits on a plate that sits behind the wiper motor and you
> just swap the whole plate out. I know some areas have motor vehicle
> branches that can reinstall that VIN using the proper rivets. I was
> also told that the black market price for the rivets was around $100.00
> each.
>
> That color chart is strange....
>
> I checked my CJ7 out and mine was 'apparently' charcoal metallic. I
> have had all of my jeep apart and most parts down to bare metal and the
> only black on it was the dash panel. The sucker was a 'barbie' Jeep
> according to the paint I found. Hot purple trimmed with hot pink, then
> gray, then metallic blue/green....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> cjarnesen wrote:
>>
>> I'll have to check. I have some stickers there, but they are all
>> newer. My Jeep had an engine swap done in 1995. So all the required
>> DMV emissions stuff is there on the tub under the door. I'll look to
>> see if there is an original sticker, but I don't remember seeing one.
>> I have a cover over the cab right now so I can't look. One place my
>> VIN was, was on the windshield frame riveted under the wiper motor
>> mount. Because I'm replacing my windshield, I had to drill out the
>> rivets to keep my VIN plate. I know its on the plate in the engine as
>> well.
>>
>> Just went and got my glass for the new frame. The new frame is due
>> pretty soon. Can't wait to paint it and get my jeep all fixed back up.
>>
>> Lee Ayrton wrote:
>>> Glad to help, and thanks for letting us know how you made out. My `79 CJ
>>> is in storage for the winter so I can't look but, just out of idle
>>> curiosity, did Jeep still put a VIN/nomenclature/tire pressure sticker on
>>> the dash or body tub near the driver seat by `81? I'm wondering if the
>>> paint code also appears there.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
>>>
>>>> well, success. 1E it is, good guess lee. I braved the storm, and
>>>> years of engine bay grease to fine the tag under the near MC. There it
>>>> was 1E. Thanks again!
>>>>
>>>> -CJ
>>>>
>>>> Lee Ayrton wrote:
>>>>> http://www.cjoffroad.com/writeup.asp?WU_ID=30&noAdd=1
>>>>>
>>>>> [quote]-----------------------------
>>>>> On your VIN tag under your hood on the firewall (below the brake master
>>>>> cylinder) there is a two digit number on the second row, in the middle.
>>>>> This is the Paint Code.
>>>>> [unquot]----------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> From the way your picture appears on my monitor, I'm guessing "1E" Copper
>>>>> Brown Metallic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 26 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey all. I've been on an internet journey trying to find the proper
>>>>>> paint color for my 1981 CJ7. I busted the windshield and windshield
>>>>>> frame last trip to Hollister, so now its time to paint the new
>>>>>> windshield frame as well as my hood. The paint is stock. It is a
>>>>>> burgundy orange color. My friends call it rust orange. Any idea as to
>>>>>> the color? The link below is a pic, it might help.
>>>>>> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=IMG_2073.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been having trouble locating the paint code via where it is
>>>>>> supposed to be. Is it in the vin?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the help, and any tips on where to get the paint. I have a
>>>>>> spray gun and compressor, so I should be set there. Also need to make
>>>>>> sure to get the proper primer. Thank you!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -CJ
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
>>>>> whips....r"
>>>>> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
>>> whips....r"
>>> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.
>

--
"I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
whips....r"
R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.

Lee Ayrton

On the other hand, only a Jeepin' cop would know where to find the VIN
plates on a CJ that's a quarter century old. My `79 never had a VIN tag
on the wiper mounting plate, it appears only on the firewall tag and the
nomenclature sticker on the dash.


On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Mike Romain wrote:

> Ummm, just so you know, you just turned your Jeep into a serious 'heat
> score' by drilling those rivets out.... They are a special shape and
> signify 'original' instead of replacements which signify 'stolen'. Most
> cops are very aware of this so you better have all the right paperwork
> with you.
>
> That VIN tag sits on a plate that sits behind the wiper motor and you
> just swap the whole plate out. I know some areas have motor vehicle
> branches that can reinstall that VIN using the proper rivets. I was
> also told that the black market price for the rivets was around $100.00
> each.
>
> That color chart is strange....
>
> I checked my CJ7 out and mine was 'apparently' charcoal metallic. I
> have had all of my jeep apart and most parts down to bare metal and the
> only black on it was the dash panel. The sucker was a 'barbie' Jeep
> according to the paint I found. Hot purple trimmed with hot pink, then
> gray, then metallic blue/green....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> cjarnesen wrote:
>>
>> I'll have to check. I have some stickers there, but they are all
>> newer. My Jeep had an engine swap done in 1995. So all the required
>> DMV emissions stuff is there on the tub under the door. I'll look to
>> see if there is an original sticker, but I don't remember seeing one.
>> I have a cover over the cab right now so I can't look. One place my
>> VIN was, was on the windshield frame riveted under the wiper motor
>> mount. Because I'm replacing my windshield, I had to drill out the
>> rivets to keep my VIN plate. I know its on the plate in the engine as
>> well.
>>
>> Just went and got my glass for the new frame. The new frame is due
>> pretty soon. Can't wait to paint it and get my jeep all fixed back up.
>>
>> Lee Ayrton wrote:
>>> Glad to help, and thanks for letting us know how you made out. My `79 CJ
>>> is in storage for the winter so I can't look but, just out of idle
>>> curiosity, did Jeep still put a VIN/nomenclature/tire pressure sticker on
>>> the dash or body tub near the driver seat by `81? I'm wondering if the
>>> paint code also appears there.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
>>>
>>>> well, success. 1E it is, good guess lee. I braved the storm, and
>>>> years of engine bay grease to fine the tag under the near MC. There it
>>>> was 1E. Thanks again!
>>>>
>>>> -CJ
>>>>
>>>> Lee Ayrton wrote:
>>>>> http://www.cjoffroad.com/writeup.asp?WU_ID=30&noAdd=1
>>>>>
>>>>> [quote]-----------------------------
>>>>> On your VIN tag under your hood on the firewall (below the brake master
>>>>> cylinder) there is a two digit number on the second row, in the middle.
>>>>> This is the Paint Code.
>>>>> [unquot]----------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> From the way your picture appears on my monitor, I'm guessing "1E" Copper
>>>>> Brown Metallic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 26 Dec 2006, cjarnesen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey all. I've been on an internet journey trying to find the proper
>>>>>> paint color for my 1981 CJ7. I busted the windshield and windshield
>>>>>> frame last trip to Hollister, so now its time to paint the new
>>>>>> windshield frame as well as my hood. The paint is stock. It is a
>>>>>> burgundy orange color. My friends call it rust orange. Any idea as to
>>>>>> the color? The link below is a pic, it might help.
>>>>>> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=IMG_2073.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been having trouble locating the paint code via where it is
>>>>>> supposed to be. Is it in the vin?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the help, and any tips on where to get the paint. I have a
>>>>>> spray gun and compressor, so I should be set there. Also need to make
>>>>>> sure to get the proper primer. Thank you!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -CJ
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
>>>>> whips....r"
>>>>> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
>>> whips....r"
>>> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.
>

--
"I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with
whips....r"
R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days.