HarryS

Old and inexpensive is an oxymoron, old equals expensive especially if you
want reliability. I do not know about anyone else but, I would prefer
reliability and not be left out in God forsaken no where. Yes, you may pay
very little for a older vehicle but, pay me now or pay me later.

--
HarryS
"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0408171214.581ea410@posting.google.c om...
> A friend of mine wants to get an inexpensive vehicle to take on the
> trail. He wants room in it to take camping gear and friends, but wants
> it to be able to take him places his subaru wrx can't get.
>
> He knows I'm into Jeeping and off-roading, so he's asked my opinion on
> some inexpensive older vehicles to get. So, I'm going to ask here, as
> my knowledge on Jeeps is limited mostly to the years of the TJ, with
> only some sparse knowledge of older YJs or CJs. My knowledge of the
> older Cherokee/Wagoneer vehicles is limited, if not nonexistent.
>
> 1) What is a good cheap vehicle to buy? Something that will hold up
> well and not be a bear to maintain? Old Bronco? Old Wagoneer such as
> the 1997 he is looking at? Something else?
>
> 2) He has found a 1979 Wagoneer with only 10000 miles on a new engine.
> I haven't seen it, and he's not familiar with all the components to
> check, so what would come standard on this vehicle? What is good on
> it? What's bad? He says there is some rust on it...what kind of rust
> is ok and what should he run away from? How difficult is it to repair
> rust (he says there was a small rusted-through hole in the floor
> behind the drivers side seat/door)? What type of transfer case,
> transmission, axles, etc. are on this? I'm probably going to end up
> going and checking it out with him, so I want to go armed with as much
> knowledge about these particular vehicles as possible. He says the
> current owner says the "u-joints will probably need to be replaced".
> If this is so, there has probably been existing vibes in the
> driveline; any tell-tale ways to check if such vibrations have caused
> any trouble in the t-case or diffs (bearings, etc) besides the normal
> bad-seal symptom of oily diff/t-case skid?
>
> 3) Do you think a vehicle like the one mentioned here would be worth
> $900? (I understand I have little to no detail about the vehicle
> included here, I'm just telling you what he knows so far, but I'm
> hoping you can at least tell me if this year of Wagoneer could be a
> good deal in this ball park.)
>
> 4) Since the engine is new, is there anything we should check to see
> if the engine swap is good, that it was installed well and has no
> problems (hoping this isn't a case where someone had this as a project
> vehicle, futzed up the engine install, and is now trying to sell it
> off and recover a little of his money).
>
> I'll stop there, so I don't get this too terribly long. I appreciate
> any and all help and comments.
>
> Thanks,
> Bob

HarryS

Old and inexpensive is an oxymoron, old equals expensive especially if you
want reliability. I do not know about anyone else but, I would prefer
reliability and not be left out in God forsaken no where. Yes, you may pay
very little for a older vehicle but, pay me now or pay me later.

--
HarryS
"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0408171214.581ea410@posting.google.c om...
> A friend of mine wants to get an inexpensive vehicle to take on the
> trail. He wants room in it to take camping gear and friends, but wants
> it to be able to take him places his subaru wrx can't get.
>
> He knows I'm into Jeeping and off-roading, so he's asked my opinion on
> some inexpensive older vehicles to get. So, I'm going to ask here, as
> my knowledge on Jeeps is limited mostly to the years of the TJ, with
> only some sparse knowledge of older YJs or CJs. My knowledge of the
> older Cherokee/Wagoneer vehicles is limited, if not nonexistent.
>
> 1) What is a good cheap vehicle to buy? Something that will hold up
> well and not be a bear to maintain? Old Bronco? Old Wagoneer such as
> the 1997 he is looking at? Something else?
>
> 2) He has found a 1979 Wagoneer with only 10000 miles on a new engine.
> I haven't seen it, and he's not familiar with all the components to
> check, so what would come standard on this vehicle? What is good on
> it? What's bad? He says there is some rust on it...what kind of rust
> is ok and what should he run away from? How difficult is it to repair
> rust (he says there was a small rusted-through hole in the floor
> behind the drivers side seat/door)? What type of transfer case,
> transmission, axles, etc. are on this? I'm probably going to end up
> going and checking it out with him, so I want to go armed with as much
> knowledge about these particular vehicles as possible. He says the
> current owner says the "u-joints will probably need to be replaced".
> If this is so, there has probably been existing vibes in the
> driveline; any tell-tale ways to check if such vibrations have caused
> any trouble in the t-case or diffs (bearings, etc) besides the normal
> bad-seal symptom of oily diff/t-case skid?
>
> 3) Do you think a vehicle like the one mentioned here would be worth
> $900? (I understand I have little to no detail about the vehicle
> included here, I'm just telling you what he knows so far, but I'm
> hoping you can at least tell me if this year of Wagoneer could be a
> good deal in this ball park.)
>
> 4) Since the engine is new, is there anything we should check to see
> if the engine swap is good, that it was installed well and has no
> problems (hoping this isn't a case where someone had this as a project
> vehicle, futzed up the engine install, and is now trying to sell it
> off and recover a little of his money).
>
> I'll stop there, so I don't get this too terribly long. I appreciate
> any and all help and comments.
>
> Thanks,
> Bob

HarryS

Old and inexpensive is an oxymoron, old equals expensive especially if you
want reliability. I do not know about anyone else but, I would prefer
reliability and not be left out in God forsaken no where. Yes, you may pay
very little for a older vehicle but, pay me now or pay me later.

--
HarryS
"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0408171214.581ea410@posting.google.c om...
> A friend of mine wants to get an inexpensive vehicle to take on the
> trail. He wants room in it to take camping gear and friends, but wants
> it to be able to take him places his subaru wrx can't get.
>
> He knows I'm into Jeeping and off-roading, so he's asked my opinion on
> some inexpensive older vehicles to get. So, I'm going to ask here, as
> my knowledge on Jeeps is limited mostly to the years of the TJ, with
> only some sparse knowledge of older YJs or CJs. My knowledge of the
> older Cherokee/Wagoneer vehicles is limited, if not nonexistent.
>
> 1) What is a good cheap vehicle to buy? Something that will hold up
> well and not be a bear to maintain? Old Bronco? Old Wagoneer such as
> the 1997 he is looking at? Something else?
>
> 2) He has found a 1979 Wagoneer with only 10000 miles on a new engine.
> I haven't seen it, and he's not familiar with all the components to
> check, so what would come standard on this vehicle? What is good on
> it? What's bad? He says there is some rust on it...what kind of rust
> is ok and what should he run away from? How difficult is it to repair
> rust (he says there was a small rusted-through hole in the floor
> behind the drivers side seat/door)? What type of transfer case,
> transmission, axles, etc. are on this? I'm probably going to end up
> going and checking it out with him, so I want to go armed with as much
> knowledge about these particular vehicles as possible. He says the
> current owner says the "u-joints will probably need to be replaced".
> If this is so, there has probably been existing vibes in the
> driveline; any tell-tale ways to check if such vibrations have caused
> any trouble in the t-case or diffs (bearings, etc) besides the normal
> bad-seal symptom of oily diff/t-case skid?
>
> 3) Do you think a vehicle like the one mentioned here would be worth
> $900? (I understand I have little to no detail about the vehicle
> included here, I'm just telling you what he knows so far, but I'm
> hoping you can at least tell me if this year of Wagoneer could be a
> good deal in this ball park.)
>
> 4) Since the engine is new, is there anything we should check to see
> if the engine swap is good, that it was installed well and has no
> problems (hoping this isn't a case where someone had this as a project
> vehicle, futzed up the engine install, and is now trying to sell it
> off and recover a little of his money).
>
> I'll stop there, so I don't get this too terribly long. I appreciate
> any and all help and comments.
>
> Thanks,
> Bob

dave AKA vwdoc1

Well lets see......
It should have a 360 V8 engine, TH400 automatic transmission in it. It may
have manual windows like mine did.
I have owned a '79 Wagoneer and really liked it. I had rebuilt a 304 engine
for it and I got 15mpg on the highway semi-loaded. <g>
Full time 4 wheel drive made it very stable to drive in all weather, unlike
my 82 Wag or 88 Grand Wagoneer. That two wheel drive option can allow those
rear wheels to spin. :-(

Rust happens to all FSJs in areas that are condusive to making vehicles
rust.
Special fluid for the transfer case along with the chain make things a
little expensive if there are leaks or looseness.
I have a good spare transfer case for the 79s, so parts are not that hard to
find. <g>

Very sturdy and strong vehicles and I recommend them. I do not do trails,
but I have towed vehicles/trailers with my FSJs and load the cargo area to
the hilt. My main purpose for them is to get me where I have to go with my
tools in any type of weather esp. snow.

If it is in good mechanical condition, I think your friend will be pleased!
Look for running and starting well, both cold and hot.
Look for leaks, you might be very luckly and not find any! lol
Make sure that the transmission shifts well, downshifts well and that the 4
wheel drive is functioning. Try it on a gravel/dirt road.
My 79 did not have power windows, but the seats and possibly tailgate window
were power.
Vacuum hoses are a nightmare, and the wiring going to the tailgate breaks at
the hinges.
Leaves clog up the fresh air system drains and water might get to the
floors. More rust!!
Leaf springs usually start to sag.
Those are things I remember off the top of my head!

Try not to pay too much for it though even with a 'new' engine in it.
The common phrase used a FSJ is that it is a J.ust E.mpty E.very P.ocket!
lol
BTW I have not found this phase to be entirely true, but I don't modify them
to the max either! ;-)
--
later,
dave AKA vwdoc1
82 Wag Ltd. 360 auto (parts truck)
88 FSJ-GW 360 auto (GRAND 88)
88 XJ 4.0 auto
Chicago

dave AKA vwdoc1

Well lets see......
It should have a 360 V8 engine, TH400 automatic transmission in it. It may
have manual windows like mine did.
I have owned a '79 Wagoneer and really liked it. I had rebuilt a 304 engine
for it and I got 15mpg on the highway semi-loaded. <g>
Full time 4 wheel drive made it very stable to drive in all weather, unlike
my 82 Wag or 88 Grand Wagoneer. That two wheel drive option can allow those
rear wheels to spin. :-(

Rust happens to all FSJs in areas that are condusive to making vehicles
rust.
Special fluid for the transfer case along with the chain make things a
little expensive if there are leaks or looseness.
I have a good spare transfer case for the 79s, so parts are not that hard to
find. <g>

Very sturdy and strong vehicles and I recommend them. I do not do trails,
but I have towed vehicles/trailers with my FSJs and load the cargo area to
the hilt. My main purpose for them is to get me where I have to go with my
tools in any type of weather esp. snow.

If it is in good mechanical condition, I think your friend will be pleased!
Look for running and starting well, both cold and hot.
Look for leaks, you might be very luckly and not find any! lol
Make sure that the transmission shifts well, downshifts well and that the 4
wheel drive is functioning. Try it on a gravel/dirt road.
My 79 did not have power windows, but the seats and possibly tailgate window
were power.
Vacuum hoses are a nightmare, and the wiring going to the tailgate breaks at
the hinges.
Leaves clog up the fresh air system drains and water might get to the
floors. More rust!!
Leaf springs usually start to sag.
Those are things I remember off the top of my head!

Try not to pay too much for it though even with a 'new' engine in it.
The common phrase used a FSJ is that it is a J.ust E.mpty E.very P.ocket!
lol
BTW I have not found this phase to be entirely true, but I don't modify them
to the max either! ;-)
--
later,
dave AKA vwdoc1
82 Wag Ltd. 360 auto (parts truck)
88 FSJ-GW 360 auto (GRAND 88)
88 XJ 4.0 auto
Chicago

dave AKA vwdoc1

Well lets see......
It should have a 360 V8 engine, TH400 automatic transmission in it. It may
have manual windows like mine did.
I have owned a '79 Wagoneer and really liked it. I had rebuilt a 304 engine
for it and I got 15mpg on the highway semi-loaded. <g>
Full time 4 wheel drive made it very stable to drive in all weather, unlike
my 82 Wag or 88 Grand Wagoneer. That two wheel drive option can allow those
rear wheels to spin. :-(

Rust happens to all FSJs in areas that are condusive to making vehicles
rust.
Special fluid for the transfer case along with the chain make things a
little expensive if there are leaks or looseness.
I have a good spare transfer case for the 79s, so parts are not that hard to
find. <g>

Very sturdy and strong vehicles and I recommend them. I do not do trails,
but I have towed vehicles/trailers with my FSJs and load the cargo area to
the hilt. My main purpose for them is to get me where I have to go with my
tools in any type of weather esp. snow.

If it is in good mechanical condition, I think your friend will be pleased!
Look for running and starting well, both cold and hot.
Look for leaks, you might be very luckly and not find any! lol
Make sure that the transmission shifts well, downshifts well and that the 4
wheel drive is functioning. Try it on a gravel/dirt road.
My 79 did not have power windows, but the seats and possibly tailgate window
were power.
Vacuum hoses are a nightmare, and the wiring going to the tailgate breaks at
the hinges.
Leaves clog up the fresh air system drains and water might get to the
floors. More rust!!
Leaf springs usually start to sag.
Those are things I remember off the top of my head!

Try not to pay too much for it though even with a 'new' engine in it.
The common phrase used a FSJ is that it is a J.ust E.mpty E.very P.ocket!
lol
BTW I have not found this phase to be entirely true, but I don't modify them
to the max either! ;-)
--
later,
dave AKA vwdoc1
82 Wag Ltd. 360 auto (parts truck)
88 FSJ-GW 360 auto (GRAND 88)
88 XJ 4.0 auto
Chicago

dave AKA vwdoc1

Well lets see......
It should have a 360 V8 engine, TH400 automatic transmission in it. It may
have manual windows like mine did.
I have owned a '79 Wagoneer and really liked it. I had rebuilt a 304 engine
for it and I got 15mpg on the highway semi-loaded. <g>
Full time 4 wheel drive made it very stable to drive in all weather, unlike
my 82 Wag or 88 Grand Wagoneer. That two wheel drive option can allow those
rear wheels to spin. :-(

Rust happens to all FSJs in areas that are condusive to making vehicles
rust.
Special fluid for the transfer case along with the chain make things a
little expensive if there are leaks or looseness.
I have a good spare transfer case for the 79s, so parts are not that hard to
find. <g>

Very sturdy and strong vehicles and I recommend them. I do not do trails,
but I have towed vehicles/trailers with my FSJs and load the cargo area to
the hilt. My main purpose for them is to get me where I have to go with my
tools in any type of weather esp. snow.

If it is in good mechanical condition, I think your friend will be pleased!
Look for running and starting well, both cold and hot.
Look for leaks, you might be very luckly and not find any! lol
Make sure that the transmission shifts well, downshifts well and that the 4
wheel drive is functioning. Try it on a gravel/dirt road.
My 79 did not have power windows, but the seats and possibly tailgate window
were power.
Vacuum hoses are a nightmare, and the wiring going to the tailgate breaks at
the hinges.
Leaves clog up the fresh air system drains and water might get to the
floors. More rust!!
Leaf springs usually start to sag.
Those are things I remember off the top of my head!

Try not to pay too much for it though even with a 'new' engine in it.
The common phrase used a FSJ is that it is a J.ust E.mpty E.very P.ocket!
lol
BTW I have not found this phase to be entirely true, but I don't modify them
to the max either! ;-)
--
later,
dave AKA vwdoc1
82 Wag Ltd. 360 auto (parts truck)
88 FSJ-GW 360 auto (GRAND 88)
88 XJ 4.0 auto
Chicago

Dave Milne

worn front brakes, worn front u joints especially, rust, especially rear
quarter and tail gate (also electric tailgate),
oil leaks (from anywhere you could conceivably put oil !).

--
Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"dave AKA vwdoc1" <NO_vwdoc1_SPAM_@hotmail.com_PLEASE> wrote in message
news:_zdVc.3471$ZC7.1356@newssvr19.news.prodigy.co m...
> Well lets see......
> It should have a 360 V8 engine, TH400 automatic transmission in it. It
may
> have manual windows like mine did.
> I have owned a '79 Wagoneer and really liked it. I had rebuilt a 304
engine
> for it and I got 15mpg on the highway semi-loaded. <g>
> Full time 4 wheel drive made it very stable to drive in all weather,
unlike
> my 82 Wag or 88 Grand Wagoneer. That two wheel drive option can allow
those
> rear wheels to spin. :-(
>
> Rust happens to all FSJs in areas that are condusive to making vehicles
> rust.
> Special fluid for the transfer case along with the chain make things a
> little expensive if there are leaks or looseness.
> I have a good spare transfer case for the 79s, so parts are not that hard
to
> find. <g>
>
> Very sturdy and strong vehicles and I recommend them. I do not do trails,
> but I have towed vehicles/trailers with my FSJs and load the cargo area to
> the hilt. My main purpose for them is to get me where I have to go with
my
> tools in any type of weather esp. snow.
>
> If it is in good mechanical condition, I think your friend will be
pleased!
> Look for running and starting well, both cold and hot.
> Look for leaks, you might be very luckly and not find any! lol
> Make sure that the transmission shifts well, downshifts well and that the
4
> wheel drive is functioning. Try it on a gravel/dirt road.
> My 79 did not have power windows, but the seats and possibly tailgate
window
> were power.
> Vacuum hoses are a nightmare, and the wiring going to the tailgate breaks
at
> the hinges.
> Leaves clog up the fresh air system drains and water might get to the
> floors. More rust!!
> Leaf springs usually start to sag.
> Those are things I remember off the top of my head!
>
> Try not to pay too much for it though even with a 'new' engine in it.
> The common phrase used a FSJ is that it is a J.ust E.mpty E.very P.ocket!
> lol
> BTW I have not found this phase to be entirely true, but I don't modify
them
> to the max either! ;-)
> --
> later,
> dave AKA vwdoc1
> 82 Wag Ltd. 360 auto (parts truck)
> 88 FSJ-GW 360 auto (GRAND 88)
> 88 XJ 4.0 auto
> Chicago
>
>

Dave Milne

worn front brakes, worn front u joints especially, rust, especially rear
quarter and tail gate (also electric tailgate),
oil leaks (from anywhere you could conceivably put oil !).

--
Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"dave AKA vwdoc1" <NO_vwdoc1_SPAM_@hotmail.com_PLEASE> wrote in message
news:_zdVc.3471$ZC7.1356@newssvr19.news.prodigy.co m...
> Well lets see......
> It should have a 360 V8 engine, TH400 automatic transmission in it. It
may
> have manual windows like mine did.
> I have owned a '79 Wagoneer and really liked it. I had rebuilt a 304
engine
> for it and I got 15mpg on the highway semi-loaded. <g>
> Full time 4 wheel drive made it very stable to drive in all weather,
unlike
> my 82 Wag or 88 Grand Wagoneer. That two wheel drive option can allow
those
> rear wheels to spin. :-(
>
> Rust happens to all FSJs in areas that are condusive to making vehicles
> rust.
> Special fluid for the transfer case along with the chain make things a
> little expensive if there are leaks or looseness.
> I have a good spare transfer case for the 79s, so parts are not that hard
to
> find. <g>
>
> Very sturdy and strong vehicles and I recommend them. I do not do trails,
> but I have towed vehicles/trailers with my FSJs and load the cargo area to
> the hilt. My main purpose for them is to get me where I have to go with
my
> tools in any type of weather esp. snow.
>
> If it is in good mechanical condition, I think your friend will be
pleased!
> Look for running and starting well, both cold and hot.
> Look for leaks, you might be very luckly and not find any! lol
> Make sure that the transmission shifts well, downshifts well and that the
4
> wheel drive is functioning. Try it on a gravel/dirt road.
> My 79 did not have power windows, but the seats and possibly tailgate
window
> were power.
> Vacuum hoses are a nightmare, and the wiring going to the tailgate breaks
at
> the hinges.
> Leaves clog up the fresh air system drains and water might get to the
> floors. More rust!!
> Leaf springs usually start to sag.
> Those are things I remember off the top of my head!
>
> Try not to pay too much for it though even with a 'new' engine in it.
> The common phrase used a FSJ is that it is a J.ust E.mpty E.very P.ocket!
> lol
> BTW I have not found this phase to be entirely true, but I don't modify
them
> to the max either! ;-)
> --
> later,
> dave AKA vwdoc1
> 82 Wag Ltd. 360 auto (parts truck)
> 88 FSJ-GW 360 auto (GRAND 88)
> 88 XJ 4.0 auto
> Chicago
>
>

Dave Milne

worn front brakes, worn front u joints especially, rust, especially rear
quarter and tail gate (also electric tailgate),
oil leaks (from anywhere you could conceivably put oil !).

--
Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"dave AKA vwdoc1" <NO_vwdoc1_SPAM_@hotmail.com_PLEASE> wrote in message
news:_zdVc.3471$ZC7.1356@newssvr19.news.prodigy.co m...
> Well lets see......
> It should have a 360 V8 engine, TH400 automatic transmission in it. It
may
> have manual windows like mine did.
> I have owned a '79 Wagoneer and really liked it. I had rebuilt a 304
engine
> for it and I got 15mpg on the highway semi-loaded. <g>
> Full time 4 wheel drive made it very stable to drive in all weather,
unlike
> my 82 Wag or 88 Grand Wagoneer. That two wheel drive option can allow
those
> rear wheels to spin. :-(
>
> Rust happens to all FSJs in areas that are condusive to making vehicles
> rust.
> Special fluid for the transfer case along with the chain make things a
> little expensive if there are leaks or looseness.
> I have a good spare transfer case for the 79s, so parts are not that hard
to
> find. <g>
>
> Very sturdy and strong vehicles and I recommend them. I do not do trails,
> but I have towed vehicles/trailers with my FSJs and load the cargo area to
> the hilt. My main purpose for them is to get me where I have to go with
my
> tools in any type of weather esp. snow.
>
> If it is in good mechanical condition, I think your friend will be
pleased!
> Look for running and starting well, both cold and hot.
> Look for leaks, you might be very luckly and not find any! lol
> Make sure that the transmission shifts well, downshifts well and that the
4
> wheel drive is functioning. Try it on a gravel/dirt road.
> My 79 did not have power windows, but the seats and possibly tailgate
window
> were power.
> Vacuum hoses are a nightmare, and the wiring going to the tailgate breaks
at
> the hinges.
> Leaves clog up the fresh air system drains and water might get to the
> floors. More rust!!
> Leaf springs usually start to sag.
> Those are things I remember off the top of my head!
>
> Try not to pay too much for it though even with a 'new' engine in it.
> The common phrase used a FSJ is that it is a J.ust E.mpty E.very P.ocket!
> lol
> BTW I have not found this phase to be entirely true, but I don't modify
them
> to the max either! ;-)
> --
> later,
> dave AKA vwdoc1
> 82 Wag Ltd. 360 auto (parts truck)
> 88 FSJ-GW 360 auto (GRAND 88)
> 88 XJ 4.0 auto
> Chicago
>
>