Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
 

On the soft top issue, I am thinking of getting the hard top for the winter
months just because the Constant Ice and snow,slush,salt etc seems like it
would detiorate the top prematurely and generally be real hard on it. Am I
wrong?

I live in VT where it gets real cold and snowy!

--
Tim

[____]
(OIIIIIIO)


"Matt" <mhammer8@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3a3f4978.0407300816.41b641ea@posting.google.c om...
> Every year, my wife and I take my '99 TJ Sport from DC area to
> Michigan, then across Ontario to my folks' house in Cortland. I've got
> 31's on it (muds) and never had a problem. We rented a small Japanese
> car of some sort a few years back and got stuck in western NY, so now
> we use the TJ. It's unstoppable, even in good-size drifts. Loud on
> road trips, though :)
> I'd definitely go with the TJ. Honestly, I wouldn't bother with the
> hard top, either. Even in the winter there it stays warm enough
> inside. The new soft tops after '95 rule.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> psychonomic@hotmail.com (DJ) wrote in message
news:<51eaac29.0407291248.4c57673b@posting.google. com>...
> > Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> > feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> > area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> > be much appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Background:
> >
> > I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> > amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> > of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> > foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> > significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> > minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> > a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> > Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids ? can ya tell?).
> >
> > The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> > alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> > minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> > and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> > to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> > and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
> >
> > There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> > the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> > rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> > different from each other?
> >
> > My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> > the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> > the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> > trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> > on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> > frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> > admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> > does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> > clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> > blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> > there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> > as anything in the summer.
> >
> > Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> > the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> > the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> > explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> > to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> > "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> > hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> > that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> > before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
> >
> > How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> > to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> > chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> > from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> > the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> > snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> > clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> > but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> > this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
> >
> > How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> > systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> > before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> > drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> > until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> > under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> > get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> > I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> > scary way?
> >
> > Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> > heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> > could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> > things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> > electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> > However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> > shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> > 10 years.
> >
> > I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> > on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> > 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> > "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> > into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> > practical needs I have.
> >
> > Thank you in advance for any help!
> >
> > DJ
> >
> > (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow ? No more drifting
> > issues? I just don't want that much truck)

Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
 

On the soft top issue, I am thinking of getting the hard top for the winter
months just because the Constant Ice and snow,slush,salt etc seems like it
would detiorate the top prematurely and generally be real hard on it. Am I
wrong?

I live in VT where it gets real cold and snowy!

--
Tim

[____]
(OIIIIIIO)


"Matt" <mhammer8@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3a3f4978.0407300816.41b641ea@posting.google.c om...
> Every year, my wife and I take my '99 TJ Sport from DC area to
> Michigan, then across Ontario to my folks' house in Cortland. I've got
> 31's on it (muds) and never had a problem. We rented a small Japanese
> car of some sort a few years back and got stuck in western NY, so now
> we use the TJ. It's unstoppable, even in good-size drifts. Loud on
> road trips, though :)
> I'd definitely go with the TJ. Honestly, I wouldn't bother with the
> hard top, either. Even in the winter there it stays warm enough
> inside. The new soft tops after '95 rule.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> psychonomic@hotmail.com (DJ) wrote in message
news:<51eaac29.0407291248.4c57673b@posting.google. com>...
> > Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> > feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> > area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> > be much appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Background:
> >
> > I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> > amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> > of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> > foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> > significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> > minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> > a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> > Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids ? can ya tell?).
> >
> > The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> > alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> > minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> > and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> > to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> > and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
> >
> > There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> > the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> > rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> > different from each other?
> >
> > My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> > the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> > the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> > trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> > on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> > frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> > admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> > does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> > clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> > blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> > there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> > as anything in the summer.
> >
> > Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> > the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> > the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> > explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> > to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> > "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> > hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> > that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> > before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
> >
> > How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> > to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> > chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> > from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> > the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> > snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> > clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> > but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> > this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
> >
> > How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> > systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> > before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> > drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> > until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> > under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> > get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> > I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> > scary way?
> >
> > Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> > heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> > could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> > things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> > electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> > However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> > shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> > 10 years.
> >
> > I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> > on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> > 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> > "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> > into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> > practical needs I have.
> >
> > Thank you in advance for any help!
> >
> > DJ
> >
> > (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow ? No more drifting
> > issues? I just don't want that much truck)

Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
 

On the soft top issue, I am thinking of getting the hard top for the winter
months just because the Constant Ice and snow,slush,salt etc seems like it
would detiorate the top prematurely and generally be real hard on it. Am I
wrong?

I live in VT where it gets real cold and snowy!

--
Tim

[____]
(OIIIIIIO)


"Matt" <mhammer8@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3a3f4978.0407300816.41b641ea@posting.google.c om...
> Every year, my wife and I take my '99 TJ Sport from DC area to
> Michigan, then across Ontario to my folks' house in Cortland. I've got
> 31's on it (muds) and never had a problem. We rented a small Japanese
> car of some sort a few years back and got stuck in western NY, so now
> we use the TJ. It's unstoppable, even in good-size drifts. Loud on
> road trips, though :)
> I'd definitely go with the TJ. Honestly, I wouldn't bother with the
> hard top, either. Even in the winter there it stays warm enough
> inside. The new soft tops after '95 rule.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> psychonomic@hotmail.com (DJ) wrote in message
news:<51eaac29.0407291248.4c57673b@posting.google. com>...
> > Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> > feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> > area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> > be much appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Background:
> >
> > I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> > amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> > of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> > foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> > significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> > minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> > a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> > Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids ? can ya tell?).
> >
> > The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> > alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> > minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> > and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> > to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> > and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
> >
> > There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> > the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> > rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> > different from each other?
> >
> > My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> > the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> > the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> > trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> > on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> > frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> > admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> > does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> > clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> > blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> > there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> > as anything in the summer.
> >
> > Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> > the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> > the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> > explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> > to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> > "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> > hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> > that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> > before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
> >
> > How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> > to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> > chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> > from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> > the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> > snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> > clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> > but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> > this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
> >
> > How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> > systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> > before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> > drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> > until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> > under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> > get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> > I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> > scary way?
> >
> > Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> > heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> > could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> > things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> > electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> > However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> > shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> > 10 years.
> >
> > I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> > on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> > 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> > "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> > into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> > practical needs I have.
> >
> > Thank you in advance for any help!
> >
> > DJ
> >
> > (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow ? No more drifting
> > issues? I just don't want that much truck)

Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
 

Tim,

I lived near Burlington for 30 years (born and raised)and although I
didn't own my Jeep then, I'll give you my $0.02 worth. (I seriously
doubt there are many in this forum that know what a VT winter is
really like.)

ABSOLUTELY get the hard top for winter.

The salt is (as you know) murder up there and when you have those
stretches in late Dec-Jan when the temp doesn't go above zero (F) for
12 or more days (I remember all too well waking up to -20F mean Temp)
you're begging for broken plastic. Never mind the snow. If you're
like me, it won't get deep enough on the roof before you're out
playing in it, and Ice? Well, noone can do anything about that unless
you have indoor parking. The only thing that would make me think
otherwise is if you had absolutely no way of storing the HT in summer-
you know summer, the 3 nice weeks just after mud season!

John



"Intergate" <roadrnnr99@REMOVE.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10gtrcn7p3mr595@corp.supernews.com>...
> On the soft top issue, I am thinking of getting the hard top for the winter
> months just because the Constant Ice and snow,slush,salt etc seems like it
> would detiorate the top prematurely and generally be real hard on it. Am I
> wrong?
>
> I live in VT where it gets real cold and snowy!
>
> --
> Tim
>
> [____]
> (OIIIIIIO)
>
(Snip)

Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
 

Tim,

I lived near Burlington for 30 years (born and raised)and although I
didn't own my Jeep then, I'll give you my $0.02 worth. (I seriously
doubt there are many in this forum that know what a VT winter is
really like.)

ABSOLUTELY get the hard top for winter.

The salt is (as you know) murder up there and when you have those
stretches in late Dec-Jan when the temp doesn't go above zero (F) for
12 or more days (I remember all too well waking up to -20F mean Temp)
you're begging for broken plastic. Never mind the snow. If you're
like me, it won't get deep enough on the roof before you're out
playing in it, and Ice? Well, noone can do anything about that unless
you have indoor parking. The only thing that would make me think
otherwise is if you had absolutely no way of storing the HT in summer-
you know summer, the 3 nice weeks just after mud season!

John



"Intergate" <roadrnnr99@REMOVE.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10gtrcn7p3mr595@corp.supernews.com>...
> On the soft top issue, I am thinking of getting the hard top for the winter
> months just because the Constant Ice and snow,slush,salt etc seems like it
> would detiorate the top prematurely and generally be real hard on it. Am I
> wrong?
>
> I live in VT where it gets real cold and snowy!
>
> --
> Tim
>
> [____]
> (OIIIIIIO)
>
(Snip)

Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
 

Tim,

I lived near Burlington for 30 years (born and raised)and although I
didn't own my Jeep then, I'll give you my $0.02 worth. (I seriously
doubt there are many in this forum that know what a VT winter is
really like.)

ABSOLUTELY get the hard top for winter.

The salt is (as you know) murder up there and when you have those
stretches in late Dec-Jan when the temp doesn't go above zero (F) for
12 or more days (I remember all too well waking up to -20F mean Temp)
you're begging for broken plastic. Never mind the snow. If you're
like me, it won't get deep enough on the roof before you're out
playing in it, and Ice? Well, noone can do anything about that unless
you have indoor parking. The only thing that would make me think
otherwise is if you had absolutely no way of storing the HT in summer-
you know summer, the 3 nice weeks just after mud season!

John



"Intergate" <roadrnnr99@REMOVE.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10gtrcn7p3mr595@corp.supernews.com>...
> On the soft top issue, I am thinking of getting the hard top for the winter
> months just because the Constant Ice and snow,slush,salt etc seems like it
> would detiorate the top prematurely and generally be real hard on it. Am I
> wrong?
>
> I live in VT where it gets real cold and snowy!
>
> --
> Tim
>
> [____]
> (OIIIIIIO)
>
(Snip)

Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
 

Tim,

I lived near Burlington for 30 years (born and raised)and although I
didn't own my Jeep then, I'll give you my $0.02 worth. (I seriously
doubt there are many in this forum that know what a VT winter is
really like.)

ABSOLUTELY get the hard top for winter.

The salt is (as you know) murder up there and when you have those
stretches in late Dec-Jan when the temp doesn't go above zero (F) for
12 or more days (I remember all too well waking up to -20F mean Temp)
you're begging for broken plastic. Never mind the snow. If you're
like me, it won't get deep enough on the roof before you're out
playing in it, and Ice? Well, noone can do anything about that unless
you have indoor parking. The only thing that would make me think
otherwise is if you had absolutely no way of storing the HT in summer-
you know summer, the 3 nice weeks just after mud season!

John



"Intergate" <roadrnnr99@REMOVE.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10gtrcn7p3mr595@corp.supernews.com>...
> On the soft top issue, I am thinking of getting the hard top for the winter
> months just because the Constant Ice and snow,slush,salt etc seems like it
> would detiorate the top prematurely and generally be real hard on it. Am I
> wrong?
>
> I live in VT where it gets real cold and snowy!
>
> --
> Tim
>
> [____]
> (OIIIIIIO)
>
(Snip)

Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
 

The hard top is nice in the winter. So is going to look at xmas lights
with the top down and those sunny spring days with lots of snow still on
the trails....

I like it both ways.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Intergate wrote:
>
> On the soft top issue, I am thinking of getting the hard top for the winter
> months just because the Constant Ice and snow,slush,salt etc seems like it
> would detiorate the top prematurely and generally be real hard on it. Am I
> wrong?
>
> I live in VT where it gets real cold and snowy!
>
> --
> Tim
>
> [____]
> (OIIIIIIO)
>
> "Matt" <mhammer8@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3a3f4978.0407300816.41b641ea@posting.google.c om...
> > Every year, my wife and I take my '99 TJ Sport from DC area to
> > Michigan, then across Ontario to my folks' house in Cortland. I've got
> > 31's on it (muds) and never had a problem. We rented a small Japanese
> > car of some sort a few years back and got stuck in western NY, so now
> > we use the TJ. It's unstoppable, even in good-size drifts. Loud on
> > road trips, though :)
> > I'd definitely go with the TJ. Honestly, I wouldn't bother with the
> > hard top, either. Even in the winter there it stays warm enough
> > inside. The new soft tops after '95 rule.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
> > psychonomic@hotmail.com (DJ) wrote in message
> news:<51eaac29.0407291248.4c57673b@posting.google. com>...
> > > Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> > > feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> > > area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> > > be much appreciated.
> > >
> > >
> > > Background:
> > >
> > > I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> > > amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> > > of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> > > foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> > > significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> > > minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> > > a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> > > Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids ? can ya tell?).
> > >
> > > The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> > > alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> > > minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> > > and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> > > to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> > > and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
> > >
> > > There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> > > the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> > > rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> > > different from each other?
> > >
> > > My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> > > the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> > > the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> > > trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> > > on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> > > frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> > > admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> > > does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> > > clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> > > blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> > > there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> > > as anything in the summer.
> > >
> > > Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> > > the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> > > the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> > > explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> > > to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> > > "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> > > hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> > > that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> > > before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
> > >
> > > How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> > > to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> > > chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> > > from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> > > the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> > > snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> > > clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> > > but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> > > this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
> > >
> > > How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> > > systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> > > before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> > > drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> > > until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> > > under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> > > get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> > > I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> > > scary way?
> > >
> > > Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> > > heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> > > could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> > > things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> > > electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> > > However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> > > shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> > > 10 years.
> > >
> > > I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> > > on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> > > 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> > > "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> > > into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> > > practical needs I have.
> > >
> > > Thank you in advance for any help!
> > >
> > > DJ
> > >
> > > (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow ? No more drifting
> > > issues? I just don't want that much truck)

Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
 

The hard top is nice in the winter. So is going to look at xmas lights
with the top down and those sunny spring days with lots of snow still on
the trails....

I like it both ways.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Intergate wrote:
>
> On the soft top issue, I am thinking of getting the hard top for the winter
> months just because the Constant Ice and snow,slush,salt etc seems like it
> would detiorate the top prematurely and generally be real hard on it. Am I
> wrong?
>
> I live in VT where it gets real cold and snowy!
>
> --
> Tim
>
> [____]
> (OIIIIIIO)
>
> "Matt" <mhammer8@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3a3f4978.0407300816.41b641ea@posting.google.c om...
> > Every year, my wife and I take my '99 TJ Sport from DC area to
> > Michigan, then across Ontario to my folks' house in Cortland. I've got
> > 31's on it (muds) and never had a problem. We rented a small Japanese
> > car of some sort a few years back and got stuck in western NY, so now
> > we use the TJ. It's unstoppable, even in good-size drifts. Loud on
> > road trips, though :)
> > I'd definitely go with the TJ. Honestly, I wouldn't bother with the
> > hard top, either. Even in the winter there it stays warm enough
> > inside. The new soft tops after '95 rule.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
> > psychonomic@hotmail.com (DJ) wrote in message
> news:<51eaac29.0407291248.4c57673b@posting.google. com>...
> > > Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> > > feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> > > area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> > > be much appreciated.
> > >
> > >
> > > Background:
> > >
> > > I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> > > amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> > > of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> > > foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> > > significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> > > minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> > > a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> > > Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids ? can ya tell?).
> > >
> > > The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> > > alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> > > minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> > > and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> > > to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> > > and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
> > >
> > > There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> > > the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> > > rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> > > different from each other?
> > >
> > > My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> > > the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> > > the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> > > trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> > > on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> > > frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> > > admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> > > does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> > > clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> > > blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> > > there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> > > as anything in the summer.
> > >
> > > Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> > > the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> > > the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> > > explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> > > to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> > > "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> > > hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> > > that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> > > before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
> > >
> > > How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> > > to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> > > chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> > > from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> > > the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> > > snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> > > clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> > > but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> > > this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
> > >
> > > How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> > > systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> > > before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> > > drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> > > until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> > > under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> > > get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> > > I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> > > scary way?
> > >
> > > Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> > > heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> > > could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> > > things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> > > electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> > > However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> > > shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> > > 10 years.
> > >
> > > I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> > > on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> > > 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> > > "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> > > into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> > > practical needs I have.
> > >
> > > Thank you in advance for any help!
> > >
> > > DJ
> > >
> > > (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow ? No more drifting
> > > issues? I just don't want that much truck)

Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
 

The hard top is nice in the winter. So is going to look at xmas lights
with the top down and those sunny spring days with lots of snow still on
the trails....

I like it both ways.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Intergate wrote:
>
> On the soft top issue, I am thinking of getting the hard top for the winter
> months just because the Constant Ice and snow,slush,salt etc seems like it
> would detiorate the top prematurely and generally be real hard on it. Am I
> wrong?
>
> I live in VT where it gets real cold and snowy!
>
> --
> Tim
>
> [____]
> (OIIIIIIO)
>
> "Matt" <mhammer8@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3a3f4978.0407300816.41b641ea@posting.google.c om...
> > Every year, my wife and I take my '99 TJ Sport from DC area to
> > Michigan, then across Ontario to my folks' house in Cortland. I've got
> > 31's on it (muds) and never had a problem. We rented a small Japanese
> > car of some sort a few years back and got stuck in western NY, so now
> > we use the TJ. It's unstoppable, even in good-size drifts. Loud on
> > road trips, though :)
> > I'd definitely go with the TJ. Honestly, I wouldn't bother with the
> > hard top, either. Even in the winter there it stays warm enough
> > inside. The new soft tops after '95 rule.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
> > psychonomic@hotmail.com (DJ) wrote in message
> news:<51eaac29.0407291248.4c57673b@posting.google. com>...
> > > Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> > > feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> > > area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> > > be much appreciated.
> > >
> > >
> > > Background:
> > >
> > > I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> > > amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> > > of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> > > foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> > > significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> > > minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> > > a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> > > Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids ? can ya tell?).
> > >
> > > The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> > > alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> > > minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> > > and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> > > to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> > > and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
> > >
> > > There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> > > the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> > > rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> > > different from each other?
> > >
> > > My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> > > the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> > > the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> > > trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> > > on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> > > frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> > > admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> > > does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> > > clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> > > blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> > > there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> > > as anything in the summer.
> > >
> > > Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> > > the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> > > the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> > > explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> > > to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> > > "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> > > hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> > > that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> > > before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
> > >
> > > How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> > > to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> > > chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> > > from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> > > the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> > > snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> > > clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> > > but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> > > this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
> > >
> > > How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> > > systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> > > before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> > > drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> > > until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> > > under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> > > get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> > > I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> > > scary way?
> > >
> > > Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> > > heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> > > could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> > > things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> > > electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> > > However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> > > shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> > > 10 years.
> > >
> > > I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> > > on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> > > 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> > > "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> > > into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> > > practical needs I have.
> > >
> > > Thank you in advance for any help!
> > >
> > > DJ
> > >
> > > (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow ? No more drifting
> > > issues? I just don't want that much truck)