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Re: The time has come (lift questions)
TW wrote:
> > Do you recommend using one of those bar pin eliminator kits? I think I > have read a writeup where the guy did use it on OME shocks. Yes, but you can probably live without it. The purpose of the BPE is to prevent lateral shock motion on the bar pin. The circlips that hold the OME shock on its bar pin are prone to pop out. Install them carefully with a few drops of Loctite or tack weld the washer to the bar pin for a cheaper alternative to the BPE. > I'll take my chances and see what happens. I can use the money, if saved, > somewhere else. With your relatively longer D44 pinion, your angle will be quite steep and it's almost a sure bet you'll get at least some vibration. Even if vibration is not an issue, dropping the rear of the tcase will keep your u-joints from failing as soon as they would otherwise. If you want to save money, go to the hardware store and get 4 longer bolts and a stack of washers for each. > I don't want extremely harsh ride. But I want it to be firm. What I > really don't want to end up with is a feeling that you get on boats. Get the heavy springs front and rear. Until you get your winch in front and all your jacks, tools, spares, supplies, etc. in the rear, your ride will be very firm but not harsh. Articulation may suffer somewhat when you're unloaded, but overall, firm is good. > Am I correct to assume that the total bumstop should be 2" front and 1.5" > rear? No. > Or is it that the extension to existing bumstops should be 2" front > and 1.5" rear. Yes, you want a net increase of 1.5" and 2". There are several designs. Some insert a spacer between the frame and existing bump stop. Some insert in the middle of the stop. You can also buy longer bump stops to completely replace the stock ones. On my XJ front I have a 2" high 'puck' that bolts on the bottom perch inside the coil. > I have been thinking about the disconnects in the front. Definitely get disconnects. I love my JKS Quickers. > Is there a front track bar relactor bracket in the market somewhere? > I'll try on the internet and see what turns up. Front track bar relocation not strictly required at 2.5" lift - your axle will be off center by only a fraction of an inch. If you do decide your stock track bar is too short, consider investing in an adjustable one instead of wasting money on a fixed bracket. Dropping the bracket keeps your axle centred, but it limits articulation. A heavy-duty adjustable with better joints is the ideal solution (front and rear) and lets you increase lift height in future with no loss of performance. Same goes for control arms - let you fine tune caster and pinion angles for any lift height Steve |
Re: The time has come (lift questions)
My Turn! My answers are inline as well. I helped a friend install an
OME 2~3" kit on his TJ recently, and have opinions both on the quality from an install standpoint, and from a ride standpoint based on what he's told me. I've been grilling him about the ride, because I'm in the middle of recommending the kit to another friend on a budget (with an offer to help him install it), and wanted to make sure I was recommending a truly good kit. "TW" <a t t w @ w a v e . c o . n z> wrote in message news:<cbbelj$rm0$1@news.wave.co.nz>... > Thanks. My comments are inline as well. > > > >1) Is OME a reliable enough maker of quality products? > > I've heard nothing but good things about OME. > > Great. > As stated, I've heard nothing but good things about it. The quality of the parts looked good to me. I was especially impressed with the care and thought put into the bar pins for the shocks as compared to the cheap bar pins used in my crappy Pro-Comp ES3000 shocks. > > > >2) Is anybody running OME? What are their experiences? > > Not personally, but again, I've never heard anyone say anything bad > > about OME. > > Good to know. > A couple good friends are currently running this kit, one with additional space for 33" tires provided by a body lift kit, the other being the one I mentioned helping install the kit. They both like the kits very much. The guy I helped install it says the ride is much better both on and off-road. > > > > > >3) Given that it would give me 2-2.5 inch lift, is transfer case drop kit > > >necessary? I don't want to do it, unless absolutely necessary. > > Does the OME kit include one (I think it does)? I'd be willing to bet > > yes, it is necessary. I ended up having to drop my transfer case about > > 1/4" when I added Tera's 2" coil spacers anyway. But it really seems > > to come down to hit or miss, and also what tranny and rear axle combo > > you have. Dana 44 with 5sp manual seems to be more prone to driveline > > vibes from what I've been able to determine. Worst case, install the > > lift and drive it. Determine for yourself if you need to drop the > > transfer case. > > I can chose not to get the kit. But if I do need it, its relatively > inexpensive and easy to install. I have a Dana 44 rear with 3-spd > automatic tranny. > You have a few choices here. One, the drop kit. Two, a Motor Mount Lift or Motor Mount spacer. Some MMLs require a body lift, which you may not want to do. I do know the friend I helped install the OME kit on did the JKS Motor Mount Spacers (essentially rectangular blocks of metal that go under the existing motor mounts to raise them) without doing a body lift, and had no clearance issues. The MML allowed him to get away without dropping the T-Case skid plate; the angle change in the driveline provided by lifting the motor mounts alleviated the rear driveline u-joint angles just enough to cure the vibes he got after installing the kit. The final choice is, if you're lucky, not needing either of these remedies. I wouldn't hold out too much hope for being that lucky though. Of course, Murphy tends to follow me around with a sledge hammer whenever I'm doing anything having to do with the Jeep ;-) My friend did try to get away without the MML at first, but got vibes. He was very happy that (a) he didn't need the body lift to install the MML, and that (b) it fully cured the vibes for him. > > > >4) Which shock and spring rate (medium or heavy) should I go with? I do > > >have a hardtop, but heavier bumpers, skid plates and winch is in the plan > > >within the next 12/18 months. > > Hmmmm again, no personal experience here, but with the hardtop plus > > the accessories you plan on adding, my inclination would be to lean > > toward the heavy. > > It would have been great to hear from somebody who is running heavy setup. > The friend I helped install the OME lift got the heavy setup. He has no winch, just a slightly heavier aftermarket rear bumper. Still stock up front. His jeep looks good, rides well, and sits pretty much level (at least eyeballing it...I haven't measured it exactly). Also, by going with the heavy, he has capacity for future mods, without them allowing as much sag as the light setup would assuredly have. He is still measuring 3" of lift off the kit; this may have something to do with him going with the heavy duty springs. > > > >5) Do I need to replace the lower control arms with something after > market > > >to gain maximum benefit? Somebody in our club was commenting that TJs > tend > > >to twist their stock LCA out of shape once lifted. > > Need? No, I don't think so. Although I do think you would possibly > > benefit if you did. That said, if it was my rig, I'd leave the > > stockers on, and if they *did* twist out of shape, *then* I'd consider > > replacements. > > Whats the worst that can happen if I do twist one of the LCA out of shape > on a trail? Would I be able to drive back? I do like your logic. > If the LCA just twists out of shape but holds it structural integrity, you'll be fine. If it tears or breaks, or somehow buckles, you'll have more trouble. The lower control arm does the heavy grunt work of keeping the axle in place front to back. The upper control arm will help, but that lower control arm really needs to be there and structurally sound to keep the axle in place. I have torn a control arm mount off my axle on the trail; the way I got home: I chained the axle to the front bumper towhook to keep the axle from traveling backwards when it hit a bump while I drove forward. I made a point of never backing up. It got me home, but I'm not sure how particularly wise it was for me to drive it on the highway with the right front part of axle being held in place largely by just a chain ;-) That said, I doubt a twisting of your stock LCA would cause a catastrophic failure like what I had; it would just weaken your control over that axle, and you would likely still be able to limp home without too much trouble. > > > >6) Do I need front bumpstops extensions as well? > > Dunno.... the bumpstops are to keep the shocks from over compressing, > > and considering OME includes the shocks, in theory they probably > > wouldn't over compress since they don't find a need to include the > > front stops in their kit. However, they may not take into account that > > you may have your front swaybar disconnected, so front bump stops may > > be a good idea. I know I like the fact that I have fronts anyway. > > Okay. > The OME kit we installed just had the rear bumpstop extensions, not the front. I don't know if this is a bad call, but I think it's likely ok. He's done ok so far. You could fully compress a front shock, measure it, then measure the approximate distance between shock mounting points that would occur with the stock front bumpstop contacting the bottom of the spring pad. I think part of the reasoning could also be that the spring, with its greater number of coils, would simply not allow itself to compress enough to exceed the compression minimum of the front shocks. > > > >7) What happens to the sway bar links (front and rear) and the front > track > > >bar, shouldn't they be extended or adjusted somehow to compensate for > the > > >lift? > > Under optimum conditions, yes. But probably not really necessary with > > a lift of this size. Kinda like the LCA's in my opinion... would be > > nice, but not a 'must have' with a lift of 2" or so. > > I am thinking about putting front disconnects for trail use. But what > about on-road driving? I personally think the lift would put some strain > on the sway bar links. > Technically the swaybar should be level. But seeing as the lift isn't that great, I'm sure you'll be fine until you put on some proper length disconnect-style links. After all, the swaybar does nothing to "support" the axle; it just provides a connection between the two ends of the axle. It will still do its job even if it's not parallel to the ground at the link attachment points. It just might not be quite as smooth a ride in the process, and will restrict articulation further than a properly positioned swaybar (which doesn't matter if you're gonna fully disconnect it off-road anyway). > > > >8) Is there anything else I should be thinking about changing at the > same > > >time? SYE and diff & t/c regearing are my next priority (another 6/12 > > >months). > > Not that I can think of. > > I am relieved. > With the t-case dropped and/or the MML (motor mount lift) installed, you should be ok drivetrain-wise until your planned SYE/CV tailshaft conversion. The diff gearing will definitely be nice, too, but you'll be able to live easily until your planned time to do this. Other than that, I would recommend some upgrades to skid plating. I can't tell you how much use I get out of my steering box skid (best $40 I've spent on my Jeep). As you get more confidence and do harder trails, it helps to protect the oil pan as well. Also, while the rear gas skid is adequate for what most people do, mine has gotten crushed pretty good to this point. Getting an aftermarket thicker one is definitely high on my priority list. Finally, that front diff cover keeps wacking stuff. I have just recently ordered a cage to protect it. People often overlook these things, or think that because they have a lift they won't hit this stuff anymore; problem is, you get a lift, find you are more capable, and end up trying harder lines, and so still smack these same vulnerable parts into the rocks or what have you. Granted, my off-roading is largely based on rock-crawling; if yours is not, these sorts of skid plating additions may not be as important. > > > >9) Am I better off with importing a kit from another manufacturer with a > > >more complete list of parts. OME can be sourced locally with a 2 year > > >warrantee. > > I'd stick with the OME, especially if your location in NZ affords you > > a better price on it than other brands. Like I mentioned before, I've > > never heard anything but raves regarding them. > > Its more a case of local support in case things don't go as planned and I > need to use my rights under the warrantee. > If you can get the OME locally, with a 2 year warranty, I see no reason not to get it. It's a very good lift for someone who wants to stay moderate, or is on a budget. It's also the best you can do without being forced into a very fast string of mods to "fix" things that the lift geometry messes up. > > > >I understand that with 32x10.50 inch equivalent tyres, I should be okay > > >with a 2-2.5 inch lift. > > Every advertisement I've seen here in the US says that OME lifts > > accommodate a maximum of 31x10.5 tire. Never understood that... I > > think you'd be fine with 32x10.5's as you mention. > > Its all so confusing. > My friend with the OME kit is running 31s. With the amount of space he has, he could probably do 32s without too much worry about rubbing. The guy with the OME kit plus 1" body lift is running 33s with no problem. The guy with the 33s is running a 11.5 width; the guy with the 31s is running 10.5 width tires. > > Thanks for all your input. > I hope that helps you in your decision. > > TW Good luck, Bob |
Re: The time has come (lift questions)
My Turn! My answers are inline as well. I helped a friend install an
OME 2~3" kit on his TJ recently, and have opinions both on the quality from an install standpoint, and from a ride standpoint based on what he's told me. I've been grilling him about the ride, because I'm in the middle of recommending the kit to another friend on a budget (with an offer to help him install it), and wanted to make sure I was recommending a truly good kit. "TW" <a t t w @ w a v e . c o . n z> wrote in message news:<cbbelj$rm0$1@news.wave.co.nz>... > Thanks. My comments are inline as well. > > > >1) Is OME a reliable enough maker of quality products? > > I've heard nothing but good things about OME. > > Great. > As stated, I've heard nothing but good things about it. The quality of the parts looked good to me. I was especially impressed with the care and thought put into the bar pins for the shocks as compared to the cheap bar pins used in my crappy Pro-Comp ES3000 shocks. > > > >2) Is anybody running OME? What are their experiences? > > Not personally, but again, I've never heard anyone say anything bad > > about OME. > > Good to know. > A couple good friends are currently running this kit, one with additional space for 33" tires provided by a body lift kit, the other being the one I mentioned helping install the kit. They both like the kits very much. The guy I helped install it says the ride is much better both on and off-road. > > > > > >3) Given that it would give me 2-2.5 inch lift, is transfer case drop kit > > >necessary? I don't want to do it, unless absolutely necessary. > > Does the OME kit include one (I think it does)? I'd be willing to bet > > yes, it is necessary. I ended up having to drop my transfer case about > > 1/4" when I added Tera's 2" coil spacers anyway. But it really seems > > to come down to hit or miss, and also what tranny and rear axle combo > > you have. Dana 44 with 5sp manual seems to be more prone to driveline > > vibes from what I've been able to determine. Worst case, install the > > lift and drive it. Determine for yourself if you need to drop the > > transfer case. > > I can chose not to get the kit. But if I do need it, its relatively > inexpensive and easy to install. I have a Dana 44 rear with 3-spd > automatic tranny. > You have a few choices here. One, the drop kit. Two, a Motor Mount Lift or Motor Mount spacer. Some MMLs require a body lift, which you may not want to do. I do know the friend I helped install the OME kit on did the JKS Motor Mount Spacers (essentially rectangular blocks of metal that go under the existing motor mounts to raise them) without doing a body lift, and had no clearance issues. The MML allowed him to get away without dropping the T-Case skid plate; the angle change in the driveline provided by lifting the motor mounts alleviated the rear driveline u-joint angles just enough to cure the vibes he got after installing the kit. The final choice is, if you're lucky, not needing either of these remedies. I wouldn't hold out too much hope for being that lucky though. Of course, Murphy tends to follow me around with a sledge hammer whenever I'm doing anything having to do with the Jeep ;-) My friend did try to get away without the MML at first, but got vibes. He was very happy that (a) he didn't need the body lift to install the MML, and that (b) it fully cured the vibes for him. > > > >4) Which shock and spring rate (medium or heavy) should I go with? I do > > >have a hardtop, but heavier bumpers, skid plates and winch is in the plan > > >within the next 12/18 months. > > Hmmmm again, no personal experience here, but with the hardtop plus > > the accessories you plan on adding, my inclination would be to lean > > toward the heavy. > > It would have been great to hear from somebody who is running heavy setup. > The friend I helped install the OME lift got the heavy setup. He has no winch, just a slightly heavier aftermarket rear bumper. Still stock up front. His jeep looks good, rides well, and sits pretty much level (at least eyeballing it...I haven't measured it exactly). Also, by going with the heavy, he has capacity for future mods, without them allowing as much sag as the light setup would assuredly have. He is still measuring 3" of lift off the kit; this may have something to do with him going with the heavy duty springs. > > > >5) Do I need to replace the lower control arms with something after > market > > >to gain maximum benefit? Somebody in our club was commenting that TJs > tend > > >to twist their stock LCA out of shape once lifted. > > Need? No, I don't think so. Although I do think you would possibly > > benefit if you did. That said, if it was my rig, I'd leave the > > stockers on, and if they *did* twist out of shape, *then* I'd consider > > replacements. > > Whats the worst that can happen if I do twist one of the LCA out of shape > on a trail? Would I be able to drive back? I do like your logic. > If the LCA just twists out of shape but holds it structural integrity, you'll be fine. If it tears or breaks, or somehow buckles, you'll have more trouble. The lower control arm does the heavy grunt work of keeping the axle in place front to back. The upper control arm will help, but that lower control arm really needs to be there and structurally sound to keep the axle in place. I have torn a control arm mount off my axle on the trail; the way I got home: I chained the axle to the front bumper towhook to keep the axle from traveling backwards when it hit a bump while I drove forward. I made a point of never backing up. It got me home, but I'm not sure how particularly wise it was for me to drive it on the highway with the right front part of axle being held in place largely by just a chain ;-) That said, I doubt a twisting of your stock LCA would cause a catastrophic failure like what I had; it would just weaken your control over that axle, and you would likely still be able to limp home without too much trouble. > > > >6) Do I need front bumpstops extensions as well? > > Dunno.... the bumpstops are to keep the shocks from over compressing, > > and considering OME includes the shocks, in theory they probably > > wouldn't over compress since they don't find a need to include the > > front stops in their kit. However, they may not take into account that > > you may have your front swaybar disconnected, so front bump stops may > > be a good idea. I know I like the fact that I have fronts anyway. > > Okay. > The OME kit we installed just had the rear bumpstop extensions, not the front. I don't know if this is a bad call, but I think it's likely ok. He's done ok so far. You could fully compress a front shock, measure it, then measure the approximate distance between shock mounting points that would occur with the stock front bumpstop contacting the bottom of the spring pad. I think part of the reasoning could also be that the spring, with its greater number of coils, would simply not allow itself to compress enough to exceed the compression minimum of the front shocks. > > > >7) What happens to the sway bar links (front and rear) and the front > track > > >bar, shouldn't they be extended or adjusted somehow to compensate for > the > > >lift? > > Under optimum conditions, yes. But probably not really necessary with > > a lift of this size. Kinda like the LCA's in my opinion... would be > > nice, but not a 'must have' with a lift of 2" or so. > > I am thinking about putting front disconnects for trail use. But what > about on-road driving? I personally think the lift would put some strain > on the sway bar links. > Technically the swaybar should be level. But seeing as the lift isn't that great, I'm sure you'll be fine until you put on some proper length disconnect-style links. After all, the swaybar does nothing to "support" the axle; it just provides a connection between the two ends of the axle. It will still do its job even if it's not parallel to the ground at the link attachment points. It just might not be quite as smooth a ride in the process, and will restrict articulation further than a properly positioned swaybar (which doesn't matter if you're gonna fully disconnect it off-road anyway). > > > >8) Is there anything else I should be thinking about changing at the > same > > >time? SYE and diff & t/c regearing are my next priority (another 6/12 > > >months). > > Not that I can think of. > > I am relieved. > With the t-case dropped and/or the MML (motor mount lift) installed, you should be ok drivetrain-wise until your planned SYE/CV tailshaft conversion. The diff gearing will definitely be nice, too, but you'll be able to live easily until your planned time to do this. Other than that, I would recommend some upgrades to skid plating. I can't tell you how much use I get out of my steering box skid (best $40 I've spent on my Jeep). As you get more confidence and do harder trails, it helps to protect the oil pan as well. Also, while the rear gas skid is adequate for what most people do, mine has gotten crushed pretty good to this point. Getting an aftermarket thicker one is definitely high on my priority list. Finally, that front diff cover keeps wacking stuff. I have just recently ordered a cage to protect it. People often overlook these things, or think that because they have a lift they won't hit this stuff anymore; problem is, you get a lift, find you are more capable, and end up trying harder lines, and so still smack these same vulnerable parts into the rocks or what have you. Granted, my off-roading is largely based on rock-crawling; if yours is not, these sorts of skid plating additions may not be as important. > > > >9) Am I better off with importing a kit from another manufacturer with a > > >more complete list of parts. OME can be sourced locally with a 2 year > > >warrantee. > > I'd stick with the OME, especially if your location in NZ affords you > > a better price on it than other brands. Like I mentioned before, I've > > never heard anything but raves regarding them. > > Its more a case of local support in case things don't go as planned and I > need to use my rights under the warrantee. > If you can get the OME locally, with a 2 year warranty, I see no reason not to get it. It's a very good lift for someone who wants to stay moderate, or is on a budget. It's also the best you can do without being forced into a very fast string of mods to "fix" things that the lift geometry messes up. > > > >I understand that with 32x10.50 inch equivalent tyres, I should be okay > > >with a 2-2.5 inch lift. > > Every advertisement I've seen here in the US says that OME lifts > > accommodate a maximum of 31x10.5 tire. Never understood that... I > > think you'd be fine with 32x10.5's as you mention. > > Its all so confusing. > My friend with the OME kit is running 31s. With the amount of space he has, he could probably do 32s without too much worry about rubbing. The guy with the OME kit plus 1" body lift is running 33s with no problem. The guy with the 33s is running a 11.5 width; the guy with the 31s is running 10.5 width tires. > > Thanks for all your input. > I hope that helps you in your decision. > > TW Good luck, Bob |
Re: The time has come (lift questions)
My Turn! My answers are inline as well. I helped a friend install an
OME 2~3" kit on his TJ recently, and have opinions both on the quality from an install standpoint, and from a ride standpoint based on what he's told me. I've been grilling him about the ride, because I'm in the middle of recommending the kit to another friend on a budget (with an offer to help him install it), and wanted to make sure I was recommending a truly good kit. "TW" <a t t w @ w a v e . c o . n z> wrote in message news:<cbbelj$rm0$1@news.wave.co.nz>... > Thanks. My comments are inline as well. > > > >1) Is OME a reliable enough maker of quality products? > > I've heard nothing but good things about OME. > > Great. > As stated, I've heard nothing but good things about it. The quality of the parts looked good to me. I was especially impressed with the care and thought put into the bar pins for the shocks as compared to the cheap bar pins used in my crappy Pro-Comp ES3000 shocks. > > > >2) Is anybody running OME? What are their experiences? > > Not personally, but again, I've never heard anyone say anything bad > > about OME. > > Good to know. > A couple good friends are currently running this kit, one with additional space for 33" tires provided by a body lift kit, the other being the one I mentioned helping install the kit. They both like the kits very much. The guy I helped install it says the ride is much better both on and off-road. > > > > > >3) Given that it would give me 2-2.5 inch lift, is transfer case drop kit > > >necessary? I don't want to do it, unless absolutely necessary. > > Does the OME kit include one (I think it does)? I'd be willing to bet > > yes, it is necessary. I ended up having to drop my transfer case about > > 1/4" when I added Tera's 2" coil spacers anyway. But it really seems > > to come down to hit or miss, and also what tranny and rear axle combo > > you have. Dana 44 with 5sp manual seems to be more prone to driveline > > vibes from what I've been able to determine. Worst case, install the > > lift and drive it. Determine for yourself if you need to drop the > > transfer case. > > I can chose not to get the kit. But if I do need it, its relatively > inexpensive and easy to install. I have a Dana 44 rear with 3-spd > automatic tranny. > You have a few choices here. One, the drop kit. Two, a Motor Mount Lift or Motor Mount spacer. Some MMLs require a body lift, which you may not want to do. I do know the friend I helped install the OME kit on did the JKS Motor Mount Spacers (essentially rectangular blocks of metal that go under the existing motor mounts to raise them) without doing a body lift, and had no clearance issues. The MML allowed him to get away without dropping the T-Case skid plate; the angle change in the driveline provided by lifting the motor mounts alleviated the rear driveline u-joint angles just enough to cure the vibes he got after installing the kit. The final choice is, if you're lucky, not needing either of these remedies. I wouldn't hold out too much hope for being that lucky though. Of course, Murphy tends to follow me around with a sledge hammer whenever I'm doing anything having to do with the Jeep ;-) My friend did try to get away without the MML at first, but got vibes. He was very happy that (a) he didn't need the body lift to install the MML, and that (b) it fully cured the vibes for him. > > > >4) Which shock and spring rate (medium or heavy) should I go with? I do > > >have a hardtop, but heavier bumpers, skid plates and winch is in the plan > > >within the next 12/18 months. > > Hmmmm again, no personal experience here, but with the hardtop plus > > the accessories you plan on adding, my inclination would be to lean > > toward the heavy. > > It would have been great to hear from somebody who is running heavy setup. > The friend I helped install the OME lift got the heavy setup. He has no winch, just a slightly heavier aftermarket rear bumper. Still stock up front. His jeep looks good, rides well, and sits pretty much level (at least eyeballing it...I haven't measured it exactly). Also, by going with the heavy, he has capacity for future mods, without them allowing as much sag as the light setup would assuredly have. He is still measuring 3" of lift off the kit; this may have something to do with him going with the heavy duty springs. > > > >5) Do I need to replace the lower control arms with something after > market > > >to gain maximum benefit? Somebody in our club was commenting that TJs > tend > > >to twist their stock LCA out of shape once lifted. > > Need? No, I don't think so. Although I do think you would possibly > > benefit if you did. That said, if it was my rig, I'd leave the > > stockers on, and if they *did* twist out of shape, *then* I'd consider > > replacements. > > Whats the worst that can happen if I do twist one of the LCA out of shape > on a trail? Would I be able to drive back? I do like your logic. > If the LCA just twists out of shape but holds it structural integrity, you'll be fine. If it tears or breaks, or somehow buckles, you'll have more trouble. The lower control arm does the heavy grunt work of keeping the axle in place front to back. The upper control arm will help, but that lower control arm really needs to be there and structurally sound to keep the axle in place. I have torn a control arm mount off my axle on the trail; the way I got home: I chained the axle to the front bumper towhook to keep the axle from traveling backwards when it hit a bump while I drove forward. I made a point of never backing up. It got me home, but I'm not sure how particularly wise it was for me to drive it on the highway with the right front part of axle being held in place largely by just a chain ;-) That said, I doubt a twisting of your stock LCA would cause a catastrophic failure like what I had; it would just weaken your control over that axle, and you would likely still be able to limp home without too much trouble. > > > >6) Do I need front bumpstops extensions as well? > > Dunno.... the bumpstops are to keep the shocks from over compressing, > > and considering OME includes the shocks, in theory they probably > > wouldn't over compress since they don't find a need to include the > > front stops in their kit. However, they may not take into account that > > you may have your front swaybar disconnected, so front bump stops may > > be a good idea. I know I like the fact that I have fronts anyway. > > Okay. > The OME kit we installed just had the rear bumpstop extensions, not the front. I don't know if this is a bad call, but I think it's likely ok. He's done ok so far. You could fully compress a front shock, measure it, then measure the approximate distance between shock mounting points that would occur with the stock front bumpstop contacting the bottom of the spring pad. I think part of the reasoning could also be that the spring, with its greater number of coils, would simply not allow itself to compress enough to exceed the compression minimum of the front shocks. > > > >7) What happens to the sway bar links (front and rear) and the front > track > > >bar, shouldn't they be extended or adjusted somehow to compensate for > the > > >lift? > > Under optimum conditions, yes. But probably not really necessary with > > a lift of this size. Kinda like the LCA's in my opinion... would be > > nice, but not a 'must have' with a lift of 2" or so. > > I am thinking about putting front disconnects for trail use. But what > about on-road driving? I personally think the lift would put some strain > on the sway bar links. > Technically the swaybar should be level. But seeing as the lift isn't that great, I'm sure you'll be fine until you put on some proper length disconnect-style links. After all, the swaybar does nothing to "support" the axle; it just provides a connection between the two ends of the axle. It will still do its job even if it's not parallel to the ground at the link attachment points. It just might not be quite as smooth a ride in the process, and will restrict articulation further than a properly positioned swaybar (which doesn't matter if you're gonna fully disconnect it off-road anyway). > > > >8) Is there anything else I should be thinking about changing at the > same > > >time? SYE and diff & t/c regearing are my next priority (another 6/12 > > >months). > > Not that I can think of. > > I am relieved. > With the t-case dropped and/or the MML (motor mount lift) installed, you should be ok drivetrain-wise until your planned SYE/CV tailshaft conversion. The diff gearing will definitely be nice, too, but you'll be able to live easily until your planned time to do this. Other than that, I would recommend some upgrades to skid plating. I can't tell you how much use I get out of my steering box skid (best $40 I've spent on my Jeep). As you get more confidence and do harder trails, it helps to protect the oil pan as well. Also, while the rear gas skid is adequate for what most people do, mine has gotten crushed pretty good to this point. Getting an aftermarket thicker one is definitely high on my priority list. Finally, that front diff cover keeps wacking stuff. I have just recently ordered a cage to protect it. People often overlook these things, or think that because they have a lift they won't hit this stuff anymore; problem is, you get a lift, find you are more capable, and end up trying harder lines, and so still smack these same vulnerable parts into the rocks or what have you. Granted, my off-roading is largely based on rock-crawling; if yours is not, these sorts of skid plating additions may not be as important. > > > >9) Am I better off with importing a kit from another manufacturer with a > > >more complete list of parts. OME can be sourced locally with a 2 year > > >warrantee. > > I'd stick with the OME, especially if your location in NZ affords you > > a better price on it than other brands. Like I mentioned before, I've > > never heard anything but raves regarding them. > > Its more a case of local support in case things don't go as planned and I > need to use my rights under the warrantee. > If you can get the OME locally, with a 2 year warranty, I see no reason not to get it. It's a very good lift for someone who wants to stay moderate, or is on a budget. It's also the best you can do without being forced into a very fast string of mods to "fix" things that the lift geometry messes up. > > > >I understand that with 32x10.50 inch equivalent tyres, I should be okay > > >with a 2-2.5 inch lift. > > Every advertisement I've seen here in the US says that OME lifts > > accommodate a maximum of 31x10.5 tire. Never understood that... I > > think you'd be fine with 32x10.5's as you mention. > > Its all so confusing. > My friend with the OME kit is running 31s. With the amount of space he has, he could probably do 32s without too much worry about rubbing. The guy with the OME kit plus 1" body lift is running 33s with no problem. The guy with the 33s is running a 11.5 width; the guy with the 31s is running 10.5 width tires. > > Thanks for all your input. > I hope that helps you in your decision. > > TW Good luck, Bob |
Re: The time has come (lift questions)
My Turn! My answers are inline as well. I helped a friend install an
OME 2~3" kit on his TJ recently, and have opinions both on the quality from an install standpoint, and from a ride standpoint based on what he's told me. I've been grilling him about the ride, because I'm in the middle of recommending the kit to another friend on a budget (with an offer to help him install it), and wanted to make sure I was recommending a truly good kit. "TW" <a t t w @ w a v e . c o . n z> wrote in message news:<cbbelj$rm0$1@news.wave.co.nz>... > Thanks. My comments are inline as well. > > > >1) Is OME a reliable enough maker of quality products? > > I've heard nothing but good things about OME. > > Great. > As stated, I've heard nothing but good things about it. The quality of the parts looked good to me. I was especially impressed with the care and thought put into the bar pins for the shocks as compared to the cheap bar pins used in my crappy Pro-Comp ES3000 shocks. > > > >2) Is anybody running OME? What are their experiences? > > Not personally, but again, I've never heard anyone say anything bad > > about OME. > > Good to know. > A couple good friends are currently running this kit, one with additional space for 33" tires provided by a body lift kit, the other being the one I mentioned helping install the kit. They both like the kits very much. The guy I helped install it says the ride is much better both on and off-road. > > > > > >3) Given that it would give me 2-2.5 inch lift, is transfer case drop kit > > >necessary? I don't want to do it, unless absolutely necessary. > > Does the OME kit include one (I think it does)? I'd be willing to bet > > yes, it is necessary. I ended up having to drop my transfer case about > > 1/4" when I added Tera's 2" coil spacers anyway. But it really seems > > to come down to hit or miss, and also what tranny and rear axle combo > > you have. Dana 44 with 5sp manual seems to be more prone to driveline > > vibes from what I've been able to determine. Worst case, install the > > lift and drive it. Determine for yourself if you need to drop the > > transfer case. > > I can chose not to get the kit. But if I do need it, its relatively > inexpensive and easy to install. I have a Dana 44 rear with 3-spd > automatic tranny. > You have a few choices here. One, the drop kit. Two, a Motor Mount Lift or Motor Mount spacer. Some MMLs require a body lift, which you may not want to do. I do know the friend I helped install the OME kit on did the JKS Motor Mount Spacers (essentially rectangular blocks of metal that go under the existing motor mounts to raise them) without doing a body lift, and had no clearance issues. The MML allowed him to get away without dropping the T-Case skid plate; the angle change in the driveline provided by lifting the motor mounts alleviated the rear driveline u-joint angles just enough to cure the vibes he got after installing the kit. The final choice is, if you're lucky, not needing either of these remedies. I wouldn't hold out too much hope for being that lucky though. Of course, Murphy tends to follow me around with a sledge hammer whenever I'm doing anything having to do with the Jeep ;-) My friend did try to get away without the MML at first, but got vibes. He was very happy that (a) he didn't need the body lift to install the MML, and that (b) it fully cured the vibes for him. > > > >4) Which shock and spring rate (medium or heavy) should I go with? I do > > >have a hardtop, but heavier bumpers, skid plates and winch is in the plan > > >within the next 12/18 months. > > Hmmmm again, no personal experience here, but with the hardtop plus > > the accessories you plan on adding, my inclination would be to lean > > toward the heavy. > > It would have been great to hear from somebody who is running heavy setup. > The friend I helped install the OME lift got the heavy setup. He has no winch, just a slightly heavier aftermarket rear bumper. Still stock up front. His jeep looks good, rides well, and sits pretty much level (at least eyeballing it...I haven't measured it exactly). Also, by going with the heavy, he has capacity for future mods, without them allowing as much sag as the light setup would assuredly have. He is still measuring 3" of lift off the kit; this may have something to do with him going with the heavy duty springs. > > > >5) Do I need to replace the lower control arms with something after > market > > >to gain maximum benefit? Somebody in our club was commenting that TJs > tend > > >to twist their stock LCA out of shape once lifted. > > Need? No, I don't think so. Although I do think you would possibly > > benefit if you did. That said, if it was my rig, I'd leave the > > stockers on, and if they *did* twist out of shape, *then* I'd consider > > replacements. > > Whats the worst that can happen if I do twist one of the LCA out of shape > on a trail? Would I be able to drive back? I do like your logic. > If the LCA just twists out of shape but holds it structural integrity, you'll be fine. If it tears or breaks, or somehow buckles, you'll have more trouble. The lower control arm does the heavy grunt work of keeping the axle in place front to back. The upper control arm will help, but that lower control arm really needs to be there and structurally sound to keep the axle in place. I have torn a control arm mount off my axle on the trail; the way I got home: I chained the axle to the front bumper towhook to keep the axle from traveling backwards when it hit a bump while I drove forward. I made a point of never backing up. It got me home, but I'm not sure how particularly wise it was for me to drive it on the highway with the right front part of axle being held in place largely by just a chain ;-) That said, I doubt a twisting of your stock LCA would cause a catastrophic failure like what I had; it would just weaken your control over that axle, and you would likely still be able to limp home without too much trouble. > > > >6) Do I need front bumpstops extensions as well? > > Dunno.... the bumpstops are to keep the shocks from over compressing, > > and considering OME includes the shocks, in theory they probably > > wouldn't over compress since they don't find a need to include the > > front stops in their kit. However, they may not take into account that > > you may have your front swaybar disconnected, so front bump stops may > > be a good idea. I know I like the fact that I have fronts anyway. > > Okay. > The OME kit we installed just had the rear bumpstop extensions, not the front. I don't know if this is a bad call, but I think it's likely ok. He's done ok so far. You could fully compress a front shock, measure it, then measure the approximate distance between shock mounting points that would occur with the stock front bumpstop contacting the bottom of the spring pad. I think part of the reasoning could also be that the spring, with its greater number of coils, would simply not allow itself to compress enough to exceed the compression minimum of the front shocks. > > > >7) What happens to the sway bar links (front and rear) and the front > track > > >bar, shouldn't they be extended or adjusted somehow to compensate for > the > > >lift? > > Under optimum conditions, yes. But probably not really necessary with > > a lift of this size. Kinda like the LCA's in my opinion... would be > > nice, but not a 'must have' with a lift of 2" or so. > > I am thinking about putting front disconnects for trail use. But what > about on-road driving? I personally think the lift would put some strain > on the sway bar links. > Technically the swaybar should be level. But seeing as the lift isn't that great, I'm sure you'll be fine until you put on some proper length disconnect-style links. After all, the swaybar does nothing to "support" the axle; it just provides a connection between the two ends of the axle. It will still do its job even if it's not parallel to the ground at the link attachment points. It just might not be quite as smooth a ride in the process, and will restrict articulation further than a properly positioned swaybar (which doesn't matter if you're gonna fully disconnect it off-road anyway). > > > >8) Is there anything else I should be thinking about changing at the > same > > >time? SYE and diff & t/c regearing are my next priority (another 6/12 > > >months). > > Not that I can think of. > > I am relieved. > With the t-case dropped and/or the MML (motor mount lift) installed, you should be ok drivetrain-wise until your planned SYE/CV tailshaft conversion. The diff gearing will definitely be nice, too, but you'll be able to live easily until your planned time to do this. Other than that, I would recommend some upgrades to skid plating. I can't tell you how much use I get out of my steering box skid (best $40 I've spent on my Jeep). As you get more confidence and do harder trails, it helps to protect the oil pan as well. Also, while the rear gas skid is adequate for what most people do, mine has gotten crushed pretty good to this point. Getting an aftermarket thicker one is definitely high on my priority list. Finally, that front diff cover keeps wacking stuff. I have just recently ordered a cage to protect it. People often overlook these things, or think that because they have a lift they won't hit this stuff anymore; problem is, you get a lift, find you are more capable, and end up trying harder lines, and so still smack these same vulnerable parts into the rocks or what have you. Granted, my off-roading is largely based on rock-crawling; if yours is not, these sorts of skid plating additions may not be as important. > > > >9) Am I better off with importing a kit from another manufacturer with a > > >more complete list of parts. OME can be sourced locally with a 2 year > > >warrantee. > > I'd stick with the OME, especially if your location in NZ affords you > > a better price on it than other brands. Like I mentioned before, I've > > never heard anything but raves regarding them. > > Its more a case of local support in case things don't go as planned and I > need to use my rights under the warrantee. > If you can get the OME locally, with a 2 year warranty, I see no reason not to get it. It's a very good lift for someone who wants to stay moderate, or is on a budget. It's also the best you can do without being forced into a very fast string of mods to "fix" things that the lift geometry messes up. > > > >I understand that with 32x10.50 inch equivalent tyres, I should be okay > > >with a 2-2.5 inch lift. > > Every advertisement I've seen here in the US says that OME lifts > > accommodate a maximum of 31x10.5 tire. Never understood that... I > > think you'd be fine with 32x10.5's as you mention. > > Its all so confusing. > My friend with the OME kit is running 31s. With the amount of space he has, he could probably do 32s without too much worry about rubbing. The guy with the OME kit plus 1" body lift is running 33s with no problem. The guy with the 33s is running a 11.5 width; the guy with the 31s is running 10.5 width tires. > > Thanks for all your input. > I hope that helps you in your decision. > > TW Good luck, Bob |
Re: The time has come (lift questions)
"Steve" <xjlifter@bogus.com> wrote in message
news:jnhCc.62864$Np3.2911984@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca... > > Yes, but you can probably live without it. The purpose of the BPE is to > prevent lateral shock motion on the bar pin. The circlips that hold the > OME shock on its bar pin are prone to pop out. Install them carefully > with a few drops of Loctite or tack weld the washer to the bar pin for a > cheaper alternative to the BPE. Great, that means if the bar pins give me trouble later, I can do BPE later. > With your relatively longer D44 pinion, your angle will be quite steep > and it's almost a sure bet you'll get at least some vibration. Even if > vibration is not an issue, dropping the rear of the tcase will keep your > u-joints from failing as soon as they would otherwise. If you want to > save money, go to the hardware store and get 4 longer bolts and a stack > of washers for each. I can use the BPE budget for this and then take it off once I go with SYE in future. I know I'll be sacrificing some clearance, but I can't have everything and stick to my budget. > Get the heavy springs front and rear. Until you get your winch in front > and all your jacks, tools, spares, supplies, etc. in the rear, your ride > will be very firm but not harsh. Articulation may suffer somewhat when > you're unloaded, but overall, firm is good. I don't mind firmer ride (than stock, anyway) but I don't want my fillings falling out as well. I think I'll go with the heavy springs and take my chances. I know at some stage I will be getting ARB front and rear bumpers (also available locally) and winch and proper spare tyre carrier. > Yes, you want a net increase of 1.5" and 2". There are several designs. > Some insert a spacer between the frame and existing bump stop. Some > insert in the middle of the stop. You can also buy longer bump stops to > completely replace the stock ones. On my XJ front I have a 2" high > 'puck' that bolts on the bottom perch inside the coil. OME kit comes with rear bumpstops. I was just wondering about the front ones. I think I'll go with them as I am running 32 inch tyres. > Definitely get disconnects. I love my JKS Quickers. With the OME lift, should I go with the 0-2 inch variety or the 2.5-4 inch variety for the JKS? > Front track bar relocation not strictly required at 2.5" lift - your > axle will be off center by only a fraction of an inch. If you do decide > your stock track bar is too short, consider investing in an adjustable > one instead of wasting money on a fixed bracket. Dropping the bracket > keeps your axle centred, but it limits articulation. A heavy-duty > adjustable with better joints is the ideal solution (front and rear) and > lets you increase lift height in future with no loss of performance. > Same goes for control arms - let you fine tune caster and pinion angles > for any lift height > I have been looking at the prices and the BDS front and back adjustable track bars would be around USD 250 total. I just need to find a local supplier. I think I'll stick it out with LCAs and stock track bars and then move to adjustable one as budget allows. Thanks Steve for all your great input. TW |
Re: The time has come (lift questions)
"Steve" <xjlifter@bogus.com> wrote in message
news:jnhCc.62864$Np3.2911984@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca... > > Yes, but you can probably live without it. The purpose of the BPE is to > prevent lateral shock motion on the bar pin. The circlips that hold the > OME shock on its bar pin are prone to pop out. Install them carefully > with a few drops of Loctite or tack weld the washer to the bar pin for a > cheaper alternative to the BPE. Great, that means if the bar pins give me trouble later, I can do BPE later. > With your relatively longer D44 pinion, your angle will be quite steep > and it's almost a sure bet you'll get at least some vibration. Even if > vibration is not an issue, dropping the rear of the tcase will keep your > u-joints from failing as soon as they would otherwise. If you want to > save money, go to the hardware store and get 4 longer bolts and a stack > of washers for each. I can use the BPE budget for this and then take it off once I go with SYE in future. I know I'll be sacrificing some clearance, but I can't have everything and stick to my budget. > Get the heavy springs front and rear. Until you get your winch in front > and all your jacks, tools, spares, supplies, etc. in the rear, your ride > will be very firm but not harsh. Articulation may suffer somewhat when > you're unloaded, but overall, firm is good. I don't mind firmer ride (than stock, anyway) but I don't want my fillings falling out as well. I think I'll go with the heavy springs and take my chances. I know at some stage I will be getting ARB front and rear bumpers (also available locally) and winch and proper spare tyre carrier. > Yes, you want a net increase of 1.5" and 2". There are several designs. > Some insert a spacer between the frame and existing bump stop. Some > insert in the middle of the stop. You can also buy longer bump stops to > completely replace the stock ones. On my XJ front I have a 2" high > 'puck' that bolts on the bottom perch inside the coil. OME kit comes with rear bumpstops. I was just wondering about the front ones. I think I'll go with them as I am running 32 inch tyres. > Definitely get disconnects. I love my JKS Quickers. With the OME lift, should I go with the 0-2 inch variety or the 2.5-4 inch variety for the JKS? > Front track bar relocation not strictly required at 2.5" lift - your > axle will be off center by only a fraction of an inch. If you do decide > your stock track bar is too short, consider investing in an adjustable > one instead of wasting money on a fixed bracket. Dropping the bracket > keeps your axle centred, but it limits articulation. A heavy-duty > adjustable with better joints is the ideal solution (front and rear) and > lets you increase lift height in future with no loss of performance. > Same goes for control arms - let you fine tune caster and pinion angles > for any lift height > I have been looking at the prices and the BDS front and back adjustable track bars would be around USD 250 total. I just need to find a local supplier. I think I'll stick it out with LCAs and stock track bars and then move to adjustable one as budget allows. Thanks Steve for all your great input. TW |
Re: The time has come (lift questions)
"Steve" <xjlifter@bogus.com> wrote in message
news:jnhCc.62864$Np3.2911984@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca... > > Yes, but you can probably live without it. The purpose of the BPE is to > prevent lateral shock motion on the bar pin. The circlips that hold the > OME shock on its bar pin are prone to pop out. Install them carefully > with a few drops of Loctite or tack weld the washer to the bar pin for a > cheaper alternative to the BPE. Great, that means if the bar pins give me trouble later, I can do BPE later. > With your relatively longer D44 pinion, your angle will be quite steep > and it's almost a sure bet you'll get at least some vibration. Even if > vibration is not an issue, dropping the rear of the tcase will keep your > u-joints from failing as soon as they would otherwise. If you want to > save money, go to the hardware store and get 4 longer bolts and a stack > of washers for each. I can use the BPE budget for this and then take it off once I go with SYE in future. I know I'll be sacrificing some clearance, but I can't have everything and stick to my budget. > Get the heavy springs front and rear. Until you get your winch in front > and all your jacks, tools, spares, supplies, etc. in the rear, your ride > will be very firm but not harsh. Articulation may suffer somewhat when > you're unloaded, but overall, firm is good. I don't mind firmer ride (than stock, anyway) but I don't want my fillings falling out as well. I think I'll go with the heavy springs and take my chances. I know at some stage I will be getting ARB front and rear bumpers (also available locally) and winch and proper spare tyre carrier. > Yes, you want a net increase of 1.5" and 2". There are several designs. > Some insert a spacer between the frame and existing bump stop. Some > insert in the middle of the stop. You can also buy longer bump stops to > completely replace the stock ones. On my XJ front I have a 2" high > 'puck' that bolts on the bottom perch inside the coil. OME kit comes with rear bumpstops. I was just wondering about the front ones. I think I'll go with them as I am running 32 inch tyres. > Definitely get disconnects. I love my JKS Quickers. With the OME lift, should I go with the 0-2 inch variety or the 2.5-4 inch variety for the JKS? > Front track bar relocation not strictly required at 2.5" lift - your > axle will be off center by only a fraction of an inch. If you do decide > your stock track bar is too short, consider investing in an adjustable > one instead of wasting money on a fixed bracket. Dropping the bracket > keeps your axle centred, but it limits articulation. A heavy-duty > adjustable with better joints is the ideal solution (front and rear) and > lets you increase lift height in future with no loss of performance. > Same goes for control arms - let you fine tune caster and pinion angles > for any lift height > I have been looking at the prices and the BDS front and back adjustable track bars would be around USD 250 total. I just need to find a local supplier. I think I'll stick it out with LCAs and stock track bars and then move to adjustable one as budget allows. Thanks Steve for all your great input. TW |
Re: The time has come (lift questions)
"Steve" <xjlifter@bogus.com> wrote in message
news:jnhCc.62864$Np3.2911984@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca... > > Yes, but you can probably live without it. The purpose of the BPE is to > prevent lateral shock motion on the bar pin. The circlips that hold the > OME shock on its bar pin are prone to pop out. Install them carefully > with a few drops of Loctite or tack weld the washer to the bar pin for a > cheaper alternative to the BPE. Great, that means if the bar pins give me trouble later, I can do BPE later. > With your relatively longer D44 pinion, your angle will be quite steep > and it's almost a sure bet you'll get at least some vibration. Even if > vibration is not an issue, dropping the rear of the tcase will keep your > u-joints from failing as soon as they would otherwise. If you want to > save money, go to the hardware store and get 4 longer bolts and a stack > of washers for each. I can use the BPE budget for this and then take it off once I go with SYE in future. I know I'll be sacrificing some clearance, but I can't have everything and stick to my budget. > Get the heavy springs front and rear. Until you get your winch in front > and all your jacks, tools, spares, supplies, etc. in the rear, your ride > will be very firm but not harsh. Articulation may suffer somewhat when > you're unloaded, but overall, firm is good. I don't mind firmer ride (than stock, anyway) but I don't want my fillings falling out as well. I think I'll go with the heavy springs and take my chances. I know at some stage I will be getting ARB front and rear bumpers (also available locally) and winch and proper spare tyre carrier. > Yes, you want a net increase of 1.5" and 2". There are several designs. > Some insert a spacer between the frame and existing bump stop. Some > insert in the middle of the stop. You can also buy longer bump stops to > completely replace the stock ones. On my XJ front I have a 2" high > 'puck' that bolts on the bottom perch inside the coil. OME kit comes with rear bumpstops. I was just wondering about the front ones. I think I'll go with them as I am running 32 inch tyres. > Definitely get disconnects. I love my JKS Quickers. With the OME lift, should I go with the 0-2 inch variety or the 2.5-4 inch variety for the JKS? > Front track bar relocation not strictly required at 2.5" lift - your > axle will be off center by only a fraction of an inch. If you do decide > your stock track bar is too short, consider investing in an adjustable > one instead of wasting money on a fixed bracket. Dropping the bracket > keeps your axle centred, but it limits articulation. A heavy-duty > adjustable with better joints is the ideal solution (front and rear) and > lets you increase lift height in future with no loss of performance. > Same goes for control arms - let you fine tune caster and pinion angles > for any lift height > I have been looking at the prices and the BDS front and back adjustable track bars would be around USD 250 total. I just need to find a local supplier. I think I'll stick it out with LCAs and stock track bars and then move to adjustable one as budget allows. Thanks Steve for all your great input. TW |
Re: The time has come (lift questions)
"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0406230749.6b17ae4f@posting.google.c om... > > As stated, I've heard nothing but good things about it. The quality of > the parts looked good to me. I was especially impressed with the care > and thought put into the bar pins for the shocks as compared to the > cheap bar pins used in my crappy Pro-Comp ES3000 shocks. I'll go with OME bar pins and hope they don't give me trouble. > A couple good friends are currently running this kit, one with > additional space for 33" tires provided by a body lift kit, the other > being the one I mentioned helping install the kit. They both like the > kits very much. > The guy I helped install it says the ride is much better both on and > off-road. I just got new tyres a month ago, so I'll just wait for them to wear out and restart the whole process (I am not telling my wife though). > You have a few choices here. One, the drop kit. Two, a Motor Mount > Lift or Motor Mount spacer. Some MMLs require a body lift, which you > may not want to do. I do know the friend I helped install the OME kit > on did the JKS Motor Mount Spacers (essentially rectangular blocks of > metal that go under the existing motor mounts to raise them) without > doing a body lift, and had no clearance issues. The MML allowed him to > get away without dropping the T-Case skid plate; the angle change in > the driveline provided by lifting the motor mounts alleviated the rear > driveline u-joint angles just enough to cure the vibes he got after > installing the kit. The final choice is, if you're lucky, not needing > either of these remedies. I wouldn't hold out too much hope for being > that lucky though. Of course, Murphy tends to follow me around with a > sledge hammer whenever I'm doing anything having to do with the Jeep > ;-) > My friend did try to get away without the MML at first, but got vibes. > He was very happy that (a) he didn't need the body lift to install the > MML, and that (b) it fully cured the vibes for him. Wouldn't the MML ever so slightly increase my centre of gravity even higher? The t/c drop kit comes with the OME kit. So I guess I can use it till I go to SYE. > The friend I helped install the OME lift got the heavy setup. He has > no winch, just a slightly heavier aftermarket rear bumper. Still stock > up front. His jeep looks good, rides well, and sits pretty much level > (at least eyeballing it...I haven't measured it exactly). Also, by > going with the heavy, he has capacity for future mods, without them > allowing as much sag as the light setup would assuredly have. He is > still measuring 3" of lift off the kit; this may have something to do > with him going with the heavy duty springs. I am now inclining towards heavy springs as well. > If the LCA just twists out of shape but holds it structural integrity, > you'll be fine. If it tears or breaks, or somehow buckles, you'll have > more trouble. The lower control arm does the heavy grunt work of > keeping the axle in place front to back. The upper control arm will > help, but that lower control arm really needs to be there and > structurally sound to keep the axle in place. I have torn a control > arm mount off my axle on the trail; the way I got home: I chained the > axle to the front bumper towhook to keep the axle from traveling > backwards when it hit a bump while I drove forward. I made a point of > never backing up. It got me home, but I'm not sure how particularly > wise it was for me to drive it on the highway with the right front > part of axle being held in place largely by just a chain ;-) > That said, I doubt a twisting of your stock LCA would cause a > catastrophic failure like what I had; it would just weaken your > control over that axle, and you would likely still be able to limp > home without too much trouble. I really hope I don't get to use this trick, but I'll leave the stock ones on for now. > The OME kit we installed just had the rear bumpstop extensions, not > the front. I don't know if this is a bad call, but I think it's likely > ok. He's done ok so far. You could fully compress a front shock, > measure it, then measure the approximate distance between shock > mounting points that would occur with the stock front bumpstop > contacting the bottom of the spring pad. > I think part of the reasoning could also be that the spring, with its > greater number of coils, would simply not allow itself to compress > enough to exceed the compression minimum of the front shocks. I have 32 inch tyres. I think doing the front ones as well will be safer for my fenders and tyres. > Technically the swaybar should be level. But seeing as the lift isn't > that great, I'm sure you'll be fine until you put on some proper > length disconnect-style links. After all, the swaybar does nothing to > "support" the axle; it just provides a connection between the two ends > of the axle. It will still do its job even if it's not parallel to the > ground at the link attachment points. It just might not be quite as > smooth a ride in the process, and will restrict articulation further > than a properly positioned swaybar (which doesn't matter if you're > gonna fully disconnect it off-road anyway). I'll change to longer disconnects to compensate for the increase in height. > With the t-case dropped and/or the MML (motor mount lift) installed, > you should be ok drivetrain-wise until your planned SYE/CV tailshaft > conversion. The diff gearing will definitely be nice, too, but you'll > be able to live easily until your planned time to do this. Other than > that, I would recommend some upgrades to skid plating. I can't tell > you how much use I get out of my steering box skid (best $40 I've > spent on my Jeep). As you get more confidence and do harder trails, it > helps to protect the oil pan as well. Also, while the rear gas skid is > adequate for what most people do, mine has gotten crushed pretty good > to this point. Getting an aftermarket thicker one is definitely high > on my priority list. Finally, that front diff cover keeps wacking > stuff. I have just recently ordered a cage to protect it. People often > overlook these things, or think that because they have a lift they > won't hit this stuff anymore; problem is, you get a lift, find you are > more capable, and end up trying harder lines, and so still smack these > same vulnerable parts into the rocks or what have you. Granted, my > off-roading is largely based on rock-crawling; if yours is not, these > sorts of skid plating additions may not be as important. The trouble with buying skid plates for me is that I am in New Zealand and we have RHD TJs. Off the shelf US made steeting box skid plates don't fit. I know some manufacturers are now doing RHD versions as well. But then we don't have many hard rock trails (just a few). Mostly its mud (normal and clay variety) and grassy slopes (which are extremely slippery). > If you can get the OME locally, with a 2 year warranty, I see no > reason not to get it. It's a very good lift for someone who wants to > stay moderate, or is on a budget. It's also the best you can do > without being forced into a very fast string of mods to "fix" things > that the lift geometry messes up. Thanks. > My friend with the OME kit is running 31s. With the amount of space he > has, he could probably do 32s without too much worry about rubbing. > The guy with the OME kit plus 1" body lift is running 33s with no > problem. The guy with the 33s is running a 11.5 width; the guy with > the 31s is running 10.5 width tires. Thanks Bob. Its a question of negotiating a price with the local supplier now. I can do it because he imports it from Australia and I can play forex parity changes with him for a better price. I have next week off work so I'll go and see what happens. TW -- 01 TJ Renegade 4.0L Auto D30/44, 265/75R16 BFG Muds |
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