Re: tech questions: 93 wrangler, 93 gr cher
 

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:50:19 GMT, "MudPuppy76
<\"<moc.rr.pacyn\"@\"pupralop\">" <--SDRAWKCAB> wrote:

>yeah, i'm gonna have to go with the fuel pump.
>sadly though, i have to get a fuel pump for my 93
>yj too (leaking out the top if i fill it up too
>much) crap, i'm not made out of money, just carbon
>and water!

Ditto. That is why you get the parts from somewhere and do the job
yourself.

>Phil Rynn wrote:
>
>> If it is the fuel pump check valve, you would probably only have problems
>> starting when the engine is warm. (same symptoms as a bad fuel pressure
>> regulator). If you put a pressure gauge on the fuel test port you should
>> hold pressure after shutdown. If not it is either the fuel pressure
>> regulator or the aformentioned check valve.
>> If it is the valve, I agree with above post, you should replace the pump.
>> I just did this on my '94, not a bad job, but the pump is expensive. I got
>> one for 235 from autozone.

not OEM? here is an article about autozone fuel pumps you might want
to read first, I have it archived so don't have the message number:
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Your fuel pump is more than likely on it's way out, and it would be
wise to replace it now than to wait and be stranded (don't ask me how
I know this). I remember reading somewhere that these fuel pumps would
get contaminated with the left over solder from when the fuel tanks
were put together and get louder and fail. The same thing happened to
me, and mine went all of a sudden. How I missed that noise that
night...
Also, spend the extra money and get a >OEM< fuel pump. As a tech, I
have replaced many pumps 2 and 3 times because the aftermarket ones
failed after a couple of months. I too bought a Master fuel pump from
Autozone, and after 2 months the noise was back, so I returned it and
got a Ford one, and haven't had trouble since. Since this is a very
aggravating job and the pumps seem to always go right AFTER you fill
up, do yourself a favor and get a good one the first time.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
EDITED: >OEM< was originally "Ford" in original message.

Now do you _still_ want to go through all that HELL of replacing a
fuel pump with autozone part, only to have to do it again in 2 months?

Lg



>>>Comboverfish wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>93 grand cherokee 4.0 (buying for my wife) has a
>>>>>hard time starting after it's sat for a while,
>>>>>overnight not so bad, but a couple days and she
>>>>>cranks for a while. i want to say fuel pump check
>>>>>valve is draining back. sound about right? if this
>>>>>is it, i might build a timer circuit to bump the
>>>>>pressure before cranking.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Put a gauge on it and monitor bleeddown pressure overnight. If it is
>>>>your pump checkball, then I would think you would want to replace the
>>>>pump - esp. if it is a high mileage unit, rather than insert a homemade
>>>>timer into the FP circuit. The pump should run Key On anyway. Its the
>>>>operation of the injectors during cranking that bleed the fuel line of
>>>>air when you have a fuel drainback problem, not fuel pressure alone.
>>>>
>>>>And incase this is just coincidence that the engine only has trouble on
>>>>extended sits --- the 4.0 of that era had problems with its crank
>>>>sensor. Not sure if it was still a problem part by 1993 though. Their
>>>>output level would weaken at cranking speeds and cause either a no
>>>>start or a long crank. Just something to think about,
>>>>
>>>>Toyota MDT in MO
>>>>
>>>
>>>will check the fuel pressure when i get back to the shop on monday. maybe
>>>put a scope on the crank sensor just to see.

Re: tech questions: 93 wrangler, 93 gr cher
 

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:50:19 GMT, "MudPuppy76
<\"<moc.rr.pacyn\"@\"pupralop\">" <--SDRAWKCAB> wrote:

>yeah, i'm gonna have to go with the fuel pump.
>sadly though, i have to get a fuel pump for my 93
>yj too (leaking out the top if i fill it up too
>much) crap, i'm not made out of money, just carbon
>and water!

Ditto. That is why you get the parts from somewhere and do the job
yourself.

>Phil Rynn wrote:
>
>> If it is the fuel pump check valve, you would probably only have problems
>> starting when the engine is warm. (same symptoms as a bad fuel pressure
>> regulator). If you put a pressure gauge on the fuel test port you should
>> hold pressure after shutdown. If not it is either the fuel pressure
>> regulator or the aformentioned check valve.
>> If it is the valve, I agree with above post, you should replace the pump.
>> I just did this on my '94, not a bad job, but the pump is expensive. I got
>> one for 235 from autozone.

not OEM? here is an article about autozone fuel pumps you might want
to read first, I have it archived so don't have the message number:
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Your fuel pump is more than likely on it's way out, and it would be
wise to replace it now than to wait and be stranded (don't ask me how
I know this). I remember reading somewhere that these fuel pumps would
get contaminated with the left over solder from when the fuel tanks
were put together and get louder and fail. The same thing happened to
me, and mine went all of a sudden. How I missed that noise that
night...
Also, spend the extra money and get a >OEM< fuel pump. As a tech, I
have replaced many pumps 2 and 3 times because the aftermarket ones
failed after a couple of months. I too bought a Master fuel pump from
Autozone, and after 2 months the noise was back, so I returned it and
got a Ford one, and haven't had trouble since. Since this is a very
aggravating job and the pumps seem to always go right AFTER you fill
up, do yourself a favor and get a good one the first time.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
EDITED: >OEM< was originally "Ford" in original message.

Now do you _still_ want to go through all that HELL of replacing a
fuel pump with autozone part, only to have to do it again in 2 months?

Lg



>>>Comboverfish wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>93 grand cherokee 4.0 (buying for my wife) has a
>>>>>hard time starting after it's sat for a while,
>>>>>overnight not so bad, but a couple days and she
>>>>>cranks for a while. i want to say fuel pump check
>>>>>valve is draining back. sound about right? if this
>>>>>is it, i might build a timer circuit to bump the
>>>>>pressure before cranking.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Put a gauge on it and monitor bleeddown pressure overnight. If it is
>>>>your pump checkball, then I would think you would want to replace the
>>>>pump - esp. if it is a high mileage unit, rather than insert a homemade
>>>>timer into the FP circuit. The pump should run Key On anyway. Its the
>>>>operation of the injectors during cranking that bleed the fuel line of
>>>>air when you have a fuel drainback problem, not fuel pressure alone.
>>>>
>>>>And incase this is just coincidence that the engine only has trouble on
>>>>extended sits --- the 4.0 of that era had problems with its crank
>>>>sensor. Not sure if it was still a problem part by 1993 though. Their
>>>>output level would weaken at cranking speeds and cause either a no
>>>>start or a long crank. Just something to think about,
>>>>
>>>>Toyota MDT in MO
>>>>
>>>
>>>will check the fuel pressure when i get back to the shop on monday. maybe
>>>put a scope on the crank sensor just to see.

Re: tech questions: 93 wrangler, 93 gr cher
 

What a pile of crap that post is!

'Solder' from making the tank contaminating the fuel pumps. ROTFLMAO!

I have never heard anything so foolish.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:50:19 GMT, "MudPuppy76
> <\"<moc.rr.pacyn\"@\"pupralop\">" <--SDRAWKCAB> wrote:
>
> >yeah, i'm gonna have to go with the fuel pump.
> >sadly though, i have to get a fuel pump for my 93
> >yj too (leaking out the top if i fill it up too
> >much) crap, i'm not made out of money, just carbon
> >and water!
>
> Ditto. That is why you get the parts from somewhere and do the job
> yourself.
>
> >Phil Rynn wrote:
> >
> >> If it is the fuel pump check valve, you would probably only have problems
> >> starting when the engine is warm. (same symptoms as a bad fuel pressure
> >> regulator). If you put a pressure gauge on the fuel test port you should
> >> hold pressure after shutdown. If not it is either the fuel pressure
> >> regulator or the aformentioned check valve.
> >> If it is the valve, I agree with above post, you should replace the pump.
> >> I just did this on my '94, not a bad job, but the pump is expensive. I got
> >> one for 235 from autozone.
>
> not OEM? here is an article about autozone fuel pumps you might want
> to read first, I have it archived so don't have the message number:
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> Your fuel pump is more than likely on it's way out, and it would be
> wise to replace it now than to wait and be stranded (don't ask me how
> I know this). I remember reading somewhere that these fuel pumps would
> get contaminated with the left over solder from when the fuel tanks
> were put together and get louder and fail. The same thing happened to
> me, and mine went all of a sudden. How I missed that noise that
> night...
> Also, spend the extra money and get a >OEM< fuel pump. As a tech, I
> have replaced many pumps 2 and 3 times because the aftermarket ones
> failed after a couple of months. I too bought a Master fuel pump from
> Autozone, and after 2 months the noise was back, so I returned it and
> got a Ford one, and haven't had trouble since. Since this is a very
> aggravating job and the pumps seem to always go right AFTER you fill
> up, do yourself a favor and get a good one the first time.
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> EDITED: >OEM< was originally "Ford" in original message.
>
> Now do you _still_ want to go through all that HELL of replacing a
> fuel pump with autozone part, only to have to do it again in 2 months?
>
> Lg
>
> >>>Comboverfish wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>93 grand cherokee 4.0 (buying for my wife) has a
> >>>>>hard time starting after it's sat for a while,
> >>>>>overnight not so bad, but a couple days and she
> >>>>>cranks for a while. i want to say fuel pump check
> >>>>>valve is draining back. sound about right? if this
> >>>>>is it, i might build a timer circuit to bump the
> >>>>>pressure before cranking.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Put a gauge on it and monitor bleeddown pressure overnight. If it is
> >>>>your pump checkball, then I would think you would want to replace the
> >>>>pump - esp. if it is a high mileage unit, rather than insert a homemade
> >>>>timer into the FP circuit. The pump should run Key On anyway. Its the
> >>>>operation of the injectors during cranking that bleed the fuel line of
> >>>>air when you have a fuel drainback problem, not fuel pressure alone.
> >>>>
> >>>>And incase this is just coincidence that the engine only has trouble on
> >>>>extended sits --- the 4.0 of that era had problems with its crank
> >>>>sensor. Not sure if it was still a problem part by 1993 though. Their
> >>>>output level would weaken at cranking speeds and cause either a no
> >>>>start or a long crank. Just something to think about,
> >>>>
> >>>>Toyota MDT in MO
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>will check the fuel pressure when i get back to the shop on monday. maybe
> >>>put a scope on the crank sensor just to see.

Re: tech questions: 93 wrangler, 93 gr cher
 

What a pile of crap that post is!

'Solder' from making the tank contaminating the fuel pumps. ROTFLMAO!

I have never heard anything so foolish.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:50:19 GMT, "MudPuppy76
> <\"<moc.rr.pacyn\"@\"pupralop\">" <--SDRAWKCAB> wrote:
>
> >yeah, i'm gonna have to go with the fuel pump.
> >sadly though, i have to get a fuel pump for my 93
> >yj too (leaking out the top if i fill it up too
> >much) crap, i'm not made out of money, just carbon
> >and water!
>
> Ditto. That is why you get the parts from somewhere and do the job
> yourself.
>
> >Phil Rynn wrote:
> >
> >> If it is the fuel pump check valve, you would probably only have problems
> >> starting when the engine is warm. (same symptoms as a bad fuel pressure
> >> regulator). If you put a pressure gauge on the fuel test port you should
> >> hold pressure after shutdown. If not it is either the fuel pressure
> >> regulator or the aformentioned check valve.
> >> If it is the valve, I agree with above post, you should replace the pump.
> >> I just did this on my '94, not a bad job, but the pump is expensive. I got
> >> one for 235 from autozone.
>
> not OEM? here is an article about autozone fuel pumps you might want
> to read first, I have it archived so don't have the message number:
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> Your fuel pump is more than likely on it's way out, and it would be
> wise to replace it now than to wait and be stranded (don't ask me how
> I know this). I remember reading somewhere that these fuel pumps would
> get contaminated with the left over solder from when the fuel tanks
> were put together and get louder and fail. The same thing happened to
> me, and mine went all of a sudden. How I missed that noise that
> night...
> Also, spend the extra money and get a >OEM< fuel pump. As a tech, I
> have replaced many pumps 2 and 3 times because the aftermarket ones
> failed after a couple of months. I too bought a Master fuel pump from
> Autozone, and after 2 months the noise was back, so I returned it and
> got a Ford one, and haven't had trouble since. Since this is a very
> aggravating job and the pumps seem to always go right AFTER you fill
> up, do yourself a favor and get a good one the first time.
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> EDITED: >OEM< was originally "Ford" in original message.
>
> Now do you _still_ want to go through all that HELL of replacing a
> fuel pump with autozone part, only to have to do it again in 2 months?
>
> Lg
>
> >>>Comboverfish wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>93 grand cherokee 4.0 (buying for my wife) has a
> >>>>>hard time starting after it's sat for a while,
> >>>>>overnight not so bad, but a couple days and she
> >>>>>cranks for a while. i want to say fuel pump check
> >>>>>valve is draining back. sound about right? if this
> >>>>>is it, i might build a timer circuit to bump the
> >>>>>pressure before cranking.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Put a gauge on it and monitor bleeddown pressure overnight. If it is
> >>>>your pump checkball, then I would think you would want to replace the
> >>>>pump - esp. if it is a high mileage unit, rather than insert a homemade
> >>>>timer into the FP circuit. The pump should run Key On anyway. Its the
> >>>>operation of the injectors during cranking that bleed the fuel line of
> >>>>air when you have a fuel drainback problem, not fuel pressure alone.
> >>>>
> >>>>And incase this is just coincidence that the engine only has trouble on
> >>>>extended sits --- the 4.0 of that era had problems with its crank
> >>>>sensor. Not sure if it was still a problem part by 1993 though. Their
> >>>>output level would weaken at cranking speeds and cause either a no
> >>>>start or a long crank. Just something to think about,
> >>>>
> >>>>Toyota MDT in MO
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>will check the fuel pressure when i get back to the shop on monday. maybe
> >>>put a scope on the crank sensor just to see.

Re: tech questions: 93 wrangler, 93 gr cher
 

What a pile of crap that post is!

'Solder' from making the tank contaminating the fuel pumps. ROTFLMAO!

I have never heard anything so foolish.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:50:19 GMT, "MudPuppy76
> <\"<moc.rr.pacyn\"@\"pupralop\">" <--SDRAWKCAB> wrote:
>
> >yeah, i'm gonna have to go with the fuel pump.
> >sadly though, i have to get a fuel pump for my 93
> >yj too (leaking out the top if i fill it up too
> >much) crap, i'm not made out of money, just carbon
> >and water!
>
> Ditto. That is why you get the parts from somewhere and do the job
> yourself.
>
> >Phil Rynn wrote:
> >
> >> If it is the fuel pump check valve, you would probably only have problems
> >> starting when the engine is warm. (same symptoms as a bad fuel pressure
> >> regulator). If you put a pressure gauge on the fuel test port you should
> >> hold pressure after shutdown. If not it is either the fuel pressure
> >> regulator or the aformentioned check valve.
> >> If it is the valve, I agree with above post, you should replace the pump.
> >> I just did this on my '94, not a bad job, but the pump is expensive. I got
> >> one for 235 from autozone.
>
> not OEM? here is an article about autozone fuel pumps you might want
> to read first, I have it archived so don't have the message number:
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> Your fuel pump is more than likely on it's way out, and it would be
> wise to replace it now than to wait and be stranded (don't ask me how
> I know this). I remember reading somewhere that these fuel pumps would
> get contaminated with the left over solder from when the fuel tanks
> were put together and get louder and fail. The same thing happened to
> me, and mine went all of a sudden. How I missed that noise that
> night...
> Also, spend the extra money and get a >OEM< fuel pump. As a tech, I
> have replaced many pumps 2 and 3 times because the aftermarket ones
> failed after a couple of months. I too bought a Master fuel pump from
> Autozone, and after 2 months the noise was back, so I returned it and
> got a Ford one, and haven't had trouble since. Since this is a very
> aggravating job and the pumps seem to always go right AFTER you fill
> up, do yourself a favor and get a good one the first time.
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> EDITED: >OEM< was originally "Ford" in original message.
>
> Now do you _still_ want to go through all that HELL of replacing a
> fuel pump with autozone part, only to have to do it again in 2 months?
>
> Lg
>
> >>>Comboverfish wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>93 grand cherokee 4.0 (buying for my wife) has a
> >>>>>hard time starting after it's sat for a while,
> >>>>>overnight not so bad, but a couple days and she
> >>>>>cranks for a while. i want to say fuel pump check
> >>>>>valve is draining back. sound about right? if this
> >>>>>is it, i might build a timer circuit to bump the
> >>>>>pressure before cranking.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Put a gauge on it and monitor bleeddown pressure overnight. If it is
> >>>>your pump checkball, then I would think you would want to replace the
> >>>>pump - esp. if it is a high mileage unit, rather than insert a homemade
> >>>>timer into the FP circuit. The pump should run Key On anyway. Its the
> >>>>operation of the injectors during cranking that bleed the fuel line of
> >>>>air when you have a fuel drainback problem, not fuel pressure alone.
> >>>>
> >>>>And incase this is just coincidence that the engine only has trouble on
> >>>>extended sits --- the 4.0 of that era had problems with its crank
> >>>>sensor. Not sure if it was still a problem part by 1993 though. Their
> >>>>output level would weaken at cranking speeds and cause either a no
> >>>>start or a long crank. Just something to think about,
> >>>>
> >>>>Toyota MDT in MO
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>will check the fuel pressure when i get back to the shop on monday. maybe
> >>>put a scope on the crank sensor just to see.

Re: tech questions: 93 wrangler, 93 gr cher
 

Leaking up top can just mean a worn rubber seal or a loose hose clamp on
one of the 3 lines hooked to the pump/sender unit or a cracked line or a
rusted/leaky filter if external on the frame rail or just a leaky fill
tube.
It is very unlikely you need a pump to fix a leak and it is 'very'
likely the leak is causing it to air lock when it sits causing slow
starts when cold.

If any air can seep into the system when it sits, the gas will all go
back to the tank or on the ground depending on the orientation of the
leak.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"MudPuppy76 <\"" wrote:
>
> yeah, i'm gonna have to go with the fuel pump.
> sadly though, i have to get a fuel pump for my 93
> yj too (leaking out the top if i fill it up too
> much) crap, i'm not made out of money, just carbon
> and water!
>
> Phil Rynn wrote:
>
> > If it is the fuel pump check valve, you would probably only have problems
> > starting when the engine is warm. (same symptoms as a bad fuel pressure
> > regulator). If you put a pressure gauge on the fuel test port you should
> > hold pressure after shutdown. If not it is either the fuel pressure
> > regulator or the aformentioned check valve.
> > If it is the valve, I agree with above post, you should replace the pump.
> > I just did this on my '94, not a bad job, but the pump is expensive. I got
> > one for 235 from autozone.
>
> >>Comboverfish wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>93 grand cherokee 4.0 (buying for my wife) has a
> >>>>hard time starting after it's sat for a while,
> >>>>overnight not so bad, but a couple days and she
> >>>>cranks for a while. i want to say fuel pump check
> >>>>valve is draining back. sound about right? if this
> >>>>is it, i might build a timer circuit to bump the
> >>>>pressure before cranking.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Put a gauge on it and monitor bleeddown pressure overnight. If it is
> >>>your pump checkball, then I would think you would want to replace the
> >>>pump - esp. if it is a high mileage unit, rather than insert a homemade
> >>>timer into the FP circuit. The pump should run Key On anyway. Its the
> >>>operation of the injectors during cranking that bleed the fuel line of
> >>>air when you have a fuel drainback problem, not fuel pressure alone.
> >>>
> >>>And incase this is just coincidence that the engine only has trouble on
> >>>extended sits --- the 4.0 of that era had problems with its crank
> >>>sensor. Not sure if it was still a problem part by 1993 though. Their
> >>>output level would weaken at cranking speeds and cause either a no
> >>>start or a long crank. Just something to think about,
> >>>
> >>>Toyota MDT in MO
> >>>
> >>
> >>will check the fuel pressure when i get back to the shop on monday. maybe
> >>put a scope on the crank sensor just to see.
>
> --
> Ben Jerew AKA PolarPuppy
> ASE Certified Master Technician
> New Country Lexus of Latham, NY, USA
> Amateur Off-Roader 93 YJ 4.0l 3spd

Re: tech questions: 93 wrangler, 93 gr cher
 

Leaking up top can just mean a worn rubber seal or a loose hose clamp on
one of the 3 lines hooked to the pump/sender unit or a cracked line or a
rusted/leaky filter if external on the frame rail or just a leaky fill
tube.
It is very unlikely you need a pump to fix a leak and it is 'very'
likely the leak is causing it to air lock when it sits causing slow
starts when cold.

If any air can seep into the system when it sits, the gas will all go
back to the tank or on the ground depending on the orientation of the
leak.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"MudPuppy76 <\"" wrote:
>
> yeah, i'm gonna have to go with the fuel pump.
> sadly though, i have to get a fuel pump for my 93
> yj too (leaking out the top if i fill it up too
> much) crap, i'm not made out of money, just carbon
> and water!
>
> Phil Rynn wrote:
>
> > If it is the fuel pump check valve, you would probably only have problems
> > starting when the engine is warm. (same symptoms as a bad fuel pressure
> > regulator). If you put a pressure gauge on the fuel test port you should
> > hold pressure after shutdown. If not it is either the fuel pressure
> > regulator or the aformentioned check valve.
> > If it is the valve, I agree with above post, you should replace the pump.
> > I just did this on my '94, not a bad job, but the pump is expensive. I got
> > one for 235 from autozone.
>
> >>Comboverfish wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>93 grand cherokee 4.0 (buying for my wife) has a
> >>>>hard time starting after it's sat for a while,
> >>>>overnight not so bad, but a couple days and she
> >>>>cranks for a while. i want to say fuel pump check
> >>>>valve is draining back. sound about right? if this
> >>>>is it, i might build a timer circuit to bump the
> >>>>pressure before cranking.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Put a gauge on it and monitor bleeddown pressure overnight. If it is
> >>>your pump checkball, then I would think you would want to replace the
> >>>pump - esp. if it is a high mileage unit, rather than insert a homemade
> >>>timer into the FP circuit. The pump should run Key On anyway. Its the
> >>>operation of the injectors during cranking that bleed the fuel line of
> >>>air when you have a fuel drainback problem, not fuel pressure alone.
> >>>
> >>>And incase this is just coincidence that the engine only has trouble on
> >>>extended sits --- the 4.0 of that era had problems with its crank
> >>>sensor. Not sure if it was still a problem part by 1993 though. Their
> >>>output level would weaken at cranking speeds and cause either a no
> >>>start or a long crank. Just something to think about,
> >>>
> >>>Toyota MDT in MO
> >>>
> >>
> >>will check the fuel pressure when i get back to the shop on monday. maybe
> >>put a scope on the crank sensor just to see.
>
> --
> Ben Jerew AKA PolarPuppy
> ASE Certified Master Technician
> New Country Lexus of Latham, NY, USA
> Amateur Off-Roader 93 YJ 4.0l 3spd

Re: tech questions: 93 wrangler, 93 gr cher
 

Leaking up top can just mean a worn rubber seal or a loose hose clamp on
one of the 3 lines hooked to the pump/sender unit or a cracked line or a
rusted/leaky filter if external on the frame rail or just a leaky fill
tube.
It is very unlikely you need a pump to fix a leak and it is 'very'
likely the leak is causing it to air lock when it sits causing slow
starts when cold.

If any air can seep into the system when it sits, the gas will all go
back to the tank or on the ground depending on the orientation of the
leak.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"MudPuppy76 <\"" wrote:
>
> yeah, i'm gonna have to go with the fuel pump.
> sadly though, i have to get a fuel pump for my 93
> yj too (leaking out the top if i fill it up too
> much) crap, i'm not made out of money, just carbon
> and water!
>
> Phil Rynn wrote:
>
> > If it is the fuel pump check valve, you would probably only have problems
> > starting when the engine is warm. (same symptoms as a bad fuel pressure
> > regulator). If you put a pressure gauge on the fuel test port you should
> > hold pressure after shutdown. If not it is either the fuel pressure
> > regulator or the aformentioned check valve.
> > If it is the valve, I agree with above post, you should replace the pump.
> > I just did this on my '94, not a bad job, but the pump is expensive. I got
> > one for 235 from autozone.
>
> >>Comboverfish wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>93 grand cherokee 4.0 (buying for my wife) has a
> >>>>hard time starting after it's sat for a while,
> >>>>overnight not so bad, but a couple days and she
> >>>>cranks for a while. i want to say fuel pump check
> >>>>valve is draining back. sound about right? if this
> >>>>is it, i might build a timer circuit to bump the
> >>>>pressure before cranking.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Put a gauge on it and monitor bleeddown pressure overnight. If it is
> >>>your pump checkball, then I would think you would want to replace the
> >>>pump - esp. if it is a high mileage unit, rather than insert a homemade
> >>>timer into the FP circuit. The pump should run Key On anyway. Its the
> >>>operation of the injectors during cranking that bleed the fuel line of
> >>>air when you have a fuel drainback problem, not fuel pressure alone.
> >>>
> >>>And incase this is just coincidence that the engine only has trouble on
> >>>extended sits --- the 4.0 of that era had problems with its crank
> >>>sensor. Not sure if it was still a problem part by 1993 though. Their
> >>>output level would weaken at cranking speeds and cause either a no
> >>>start or a long crank. Just something to think about,
> >>>
> >>>Toyota MDT in MO
> >>>
> >>
> >>will check the fuel pressure when i get back to the shop on monday. maybe
> >>put a scope on the crank sensor just to see.
>
> --
> Ben Jerew AKA PolarPuppy
> ASE Certified Master Technician
> New Country Lexus of Latham, NY, USA
> Amateur Off-Roader 93 YJ 4.0l 3spd

Re: tech questions: 93 wrangler, 93 gr cher
 

In article <42120533.28A962E2@sympatico.ca>,
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> What a pile of crap that post is!
>
> 'Solder' from making the tank contaminating the fuel pumps. ROTFLMAO!
>
> I have never heard anything so foolish.

The only thing close would be that Methanol will dissolve the
Tern coating inside a steel tank, contaminating the entire fuel
system.

Re: tech questions: 93 wrangler, 93 gr cher
 

In article <42120533.28A962E2@sympatico.ca>,
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> What a pile of crap that post is!
>
> 'Solder' from making the tank contaminating the fuel pumps. ROTFLMAO!
>
> I have never heard anything so foolish.

The only thing close would be that Methanol will dissolve the
Tern coating inside a steel tank, contaminating the entire fuel
system.