Synthetic Oils
 

There are so many mythes and scams out there. Is this one of them? Can
anyone point me to some HARD evidence that I should use sythetics, or
blends?

Alon : )

Re: Synthetic Oils
 

Alon :) wrote:

> There are so many mythes and scams out there. Is this one of them? Can
> anyone point me to some HARD evidence that I should use sythetics, or
> blends?

What would it take to convince you?

Is there a particular problem you are trying to solve by using
a synthetic or blend?

Does it bother you if some synthetics are made from cracked
petroleum products converted into a synthetic oil and others
are made from extracted petroleum products converted into a
synthetic oil?

Would you do something silly and try to extend your oil
change interval?

Are you driving a vehicle that comes standard with synthetic?

Purely anecdotally, I appear to have gained roughly 1 mile
per gallon highway by conversion to a synthetic blend. On
the other half of that, the local dealer's shop manager
still claims I am wasting my money, but is willing to admit
that I might be getting slightly higher mileage and a very
small amount of desert driving capability.

Re: Synthetic Oils
 

Alon :) wrote:

> I am thinking scientifically here, spell it out step by step. I have two
> vehicles. 96 XJ used used offroad but mostly a daily driver, and an 01
> Honda Civic so I have no synthetic 'requirements.' The primary advantage I
> see claimed by sythetics is longer engine life due less wear due to less
> friction (see how I spell it out step by step??

Somewhat. Less friction also means better mileage all else being
equal. And perhaps a wider temperature range under which both less
friction AND adequate protection is available. It is easier to
make a synth cover a wider range....


> I can reasonably assume that
> sythetics provide less friction, however; I feel it is a jump in logic to
> say that it necasarly means enough reduction in wear to make a significant
> difference in engine life (or tranny life or diff life, etc...).

Some differentials and such specify synth only. I know of NO
light duty application product that does this. This means some
things to some people, something else to others....


> I have
> seen one report of gaining 10.1 hp and 6.1 lb-ft torque as measured on a
> Dyno comparing standard oil and synthetic as reported by Hot Rod Magazine
> for Royal Purple Synthetic, which claims to be above and beyond other
> synthetics (http://www.royalpurple.com/retart0208/page1.shtml), but Royal
> Purple has vested interest in selling their product... so how much credit do
> give info from them? I'll buy your 1MPG gain... but does that, or the
> increase hp and torque, also translate to longer engine life?

I don't use Royal Purple and am unlikely to ever buy such a
hype happy product... Your Mileage May Vary.



I don't know of any vehicle that leaves
the factory with this product, but there are several that leave
with Mobil 1 and specify such or similar.

If you are asking if it will make your engine last longer, there
are too many factors involved for anything but a laboratory
test.... most of which have nothing to do with the oil and a
lot to do with hype.

Even the information that notes that synthetic oils tend to need
fewer addons for any given issue are really mooted by simply
changing dino oil within the 3K range for normal duty, more often
for severe duty [of which the worst is a daily drive of less
than a mile].

> No problem I am trying to solve with it. I would change the oil as often as
> it is "scientifically proven" to me that it should be, if that is at the
> same interval as normal oil then so be it. Of course then you have to
> figure expense into the 'is it worth it' equation.

As ONE factor, yes. If you look at the mainstream synth oil
sites [which IMNHO leaves off purple] they tell you to follow
the factory change intervals.

I have no opportunity to test, but allegedly synth is also
superior for cold start. As in really cold start. As in
you may not care. It is also claimed to be able to handle
a wider viscosity range, which does have advantages if
you regularly drive across such conditions. Again, you
may or may not care.

Re: Synthetic Oils
 

This is an interesting topic, in which I myself would like more info.

According to the FSM for my 01TJ. The only mention of synthetic is
for the rear diff if used to pull trailers or heavy loads,75w90 syn.
They do specify Mopar hypoid gear oil ONLY for the xmission. The rest
they specify 80w90 for the front/rear diffs and Dextron II(going from
memory here) for the xfer case.

The only experience of using synthetic oil is for my snowmobile.
It's a 2 stroke, oil injected Rotax motor with RAVE exhaust valves.
The only real advantage I believe, is that it runs cleaner than Dino
oil, which means it doesn't gum up the exhaust valves quite so quickly.
And also less fouling of sparkplugs.
It does stink like burning plastic though :-) Pray for snow!!!!

Lon Stowell wrote:
> Alon :) wrote:
>
>
>>I am thinking scientifically here, spell it out step by step. I have two
>>vehicles. 96 XJ used used offroad but mostly a daily driver, and an 01
>>Honda Civic so I have no synthetic 'requirements.' The primary advantage I
>>see claimed by sythetics is longer engine life due less wear due to less
>>friction (see how I spell it out step by step??
>
>
> Somewhat. Less friction also means better mileage all else being
> equal. And perhaps a wider temperature range under which both less
> friction AND adequate protection is available. It is easier to
> make a synth cover a wider range....
>
>
>
>>I can reasonably assume that
>>sythetics provide less friction, however; I feel it is a jump in logic to
>>say that it necasarly means enough reduction in wear to make a significant
>>difference in engine life (or tranny life or diff life, etc...).
>
>
> Some differentials and such specify synth only. I know of NO
> light duty application product that does this. This means some
> things to some people, something else to others....
>
>
>
>>I have
>>seen one report of gaining 10.1 hp and 6.1 lb-ft torque as measured on a
>>Dyno comparing standard oil and synthetic as reported by Hot Rod Magazine
>>for Royal Purple Synthetic, which claims to be above and beyond other
>>synthetics (http://www.royalpurple.com/retart0208/page1.shtml), but Royal
>>Purple has vested interest in selling their product... so how much credit do
>>give info from them? I'll buy your 1MPG gain... but does that, or the
>>increase hp and torque, also translate to longer engine life?
>
>
> I don't use Royal Purple and am unlikely to ever buy such a
> hype happy product... Your Mileage May Vary.
>
>
>
> I don't know of any vehicle that leaves
> the factory with this product, but there are several that leave
> with Mobil 1 and specify such or similar.
>
> If you are asking if it will make your engine last longer, there
> are too many factors involved for anything but a laboratory
> test.... most of which have nothing to do with the oil and a
> lot to do with hype.
>
> Even the information that notes that synthetic oils tend to need
> fewer addons for any given issue are really mooted by simply
> changing dino oil within the 3K range for normal duty, more often
> for severe duty [of which the worst is a daily drive of less
> than a mile].
>
>
>>No problem I am trying to solve with it. I would change the oil as often as
>>it is "scientifically proven" to me that it should be, if that is at the
>>same interval as normal oil then so be it. Of course then you have to
>>figure expense into the 'is it worth it' equation.
>
>
> As ONE factor, yes. If you look at the mainstream synth oil
> sites [which IMNHO leaves off purple] they tell you to follow
> the factory change intervals.
>
> I have no opportunity to test, but allegedly synth is also
> superior for cold start. As in really cold start. As in
> you may not care. It is also claimed to be able to handle
> a wider viscosity range, which does have advantages if
> you regularly drive across such conditions. Again, you
> may or may not care.
>
>
>
>

Re: Synthetic Oils
 

I have a 88 XJ with 200K miles on it and a Mercedes with 224K on it. Both
made it this far on dinosaur oil.
Having said that, my newer Expedition specifies 5w20 synth blend and the
rear diff is full synth from the factory.
I run synth in my Jeeps diffs now that I have expensive parts (ARB, low
gears, lockers, etc) in there because I can afford it and figure it cant
hurt. The old stock gears looked perfect when I pulled them out at 185K
miles on dinosaur oil. I still change all fluids at the recommended
intervals regardless of the lubricants claims.
KH

"FrankW" <fworm@norpak.ca> wrote in message
news:3F2031F0.8000108@norpak.ca...
> This is an interesting topic, in which I myself would like more info.
>
> According to the FSM for my 01TJ. The only mention of synthetic is
> for the rear diff if used to pull trailers or heavy loads,75w90 syn.
> They do specify Mopar hypoid gear oil ONLY for the xmission. The rest
> they specify 80w90 for the front/rear diffs and Dextron II(going from
> memory here) for the xfer case.
>
> The only experience of using synthetic oil is for my snowmobile.
> It's a 2 stroke, oil injected Rotax motor with RAVE exhaust valves.
> The only real advantage I believe, is that it runs cleaner than Dino
> oil, which means it doesn't gum up the exhaust valves quite so quickly.
> And also less fouling of sparkplugs.
> It does stink like burning plastic though :-) Pray for snow!!!!
>
> Lon Stowell wrote:
> > Alon :) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I am thinking scientifically here, spell it out step by step. I have
two
> >>vehicles. 96 XJ used used offroad but mostly a daily driver, and an 01
> >>Honda Civic so I have no synthetic 'requirements.' The primary
advantage I
> >>see claimed by sythetics is longer engine life due less wear due to less
> >>friction (see how I spell it out step by step??
> >
> >
> > Somewhat. Less friction also means better mileage all else being
> > equal. And perhaps a wider temperature range under which both less
> > friction AND adequate protection is available. It is easier to
> > make a synth cover a wider range....
> >
> >
> >
> >>I can reasonably assume that
> >>sythetics provide less friction, however; I feel it is a jump in logic
to
> >>say that it necasarly means enough reduction in wear to make a
significant
> >>difference in engine life (or tranny life or diff life, etc...).
> >
> >
> > Some differentials and such specify synth only. I know of NO
> > light duty application product that does this. This means some
> > things to some people, something else to others....
> >
> >
> >
> >>I have
> >>seen one report of gaining 10.1 hp and 6.1 lb-ft torque as measured on
a
> >>Dyno comparing standard oil and synthetic as reported by Hot Rod
Magazine
> >>for Royal Purple Synthetic, which claims to be above and beyond other
> >>synthetics (http://www.royalpurple.com/retart0208/page1.shtml), but
Royal
> >>Purple has vested interest in selling their product... so how much
credit do
> >>give info from them? I'll buy your 1MPG gain... but does that, or the
> >>increase hp and torque, also translate to longer engine life?
> >
> >
> > I don't use Royal Purple and am unlikely to ever buy such a
> > hype happy product... Your Mileage May Vary.
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't know of any vehicle that leaves
> > the factory with this product, but there are several that leave
> > with Mobil 1 and specify such or similar.
> >
> > If you are asking if it will make your engine last longer, there
> > are too many factors involved for anything but a laboratory
> > test.... most of which have nothing to do with the oil and a
> > lot to do with hype.
> >
> > Even the information that notes that synthetic oils tend to need
> > fewer addons for any given issue are really mooted by simply
> > changing dino oil within the 3K range for normal duty, more often
> > for severe duty [of which the worst is a daily drive of less
> > than a mile].
> >
> >
> >>No problem I am trying to solve with it. I would change the oil as
often as
> >>it is "scientifically proven" to me that it should be, if that is at the
> >>same interval as normal oil then so be it. Of course then you have to
> >>figure expense into the 'is it worth it' equation.
> >
> >
> > As ONE factor, yes. If you look at the mainstream synth oil
> > sites [which IMNHO leaves off purple] they tell you to follow
> > the factory change intervals.
> >
> > I have no opportunity to test, but allegedly synth is also
> > superior for cold start. As in really cold start. As in
> > you may not care. It is also claimed to be able to handle
> > a wider viscosity range, which does have advantages if
> > you regularly drive across such conditions. Again, you
> > may or may not care.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: Synthetic Oils
 

I am a synthetic user.I do still change at 3000 miles and use good quality
filters.The advantage to me is far better cold start circulation,(watch the
oil pressure gauge with dino oil when its 10 below outside---YIKES!!!) it is
proven to be "slicker" than regular oil, higher thermal breakdown
temperature, it has less hydrocarbons that combine with combustion
by-products to form acids ( one of the main reason the engineers set 3000
miles for a change) and it leaves almost no gunk behind and can keep gunk it
picks up suspended better.My experience has been great with synthetics as I
have taken many vehicles over the 200,000 mile mark .However the single most
important thing is to regularly change the fluids and use a good quality
replacement synthetic or not.I just prefer to get every advantage possible.
As for the cost,I can do a change with Mobil-1 for between $25 to $30. Some
people pay that for a junk filter and low end oil at the quick change
places.

John


"FrankW" <fworm@norpak.ca> wrote in message
news:3F2031F0.8000108@norpak.ca...
> This is an interesting topic, in which I myself would like more info.
>
> According to the FSM for my 01TJ. The only mention of synthetic is
> for the rear diff if used to pull trailers or heavy loads,75w90 syn.
> They do specify Mopar hypoid gear oil ONLY for the xmission. The rest
> they specify 80w90 for the front/rear diffs and Dextron II(going from
> memory here) for the xfer case.
>
> The only experience of using synthetic oil is for my snowmobile.
> It's a 2 stroke, oil injected Rotax motor with RAVE exhaust valves.
> The only real advantage I believe, is that it runs cleaner than Dino
> oil, which means it doesn't gum up the exhaust valves quite so quickly.
> And also less fouling of sparkplugs.
> It does stink like burning plastic though :-) Pray for snow!!!!
>
> Lon Stowell wrote:
> > Alon :) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I am thinking scientifically here, spell it out step by step. I have
two
> >>vehicles. 96 XJ used used offroad but mostly a daily driver, and an 01
> >>Honda Civic so I have no synthetic 'requirements.' The primary
advantage I
> >>see claimed by sythetics is longer engine life due less wear due to less
> >>friction (see how I spell it out step by step??
> >
> >
> > Somewhat. Less friction also means better mileage all else being
> > equal. And perhaps a wider temperature range under which both less
> > friction AND adequate protection is available. It is easier to
> > make a synth cover a wider range....
> >
> >
> >
> >>I can reasonably assume that
> >>sythetics provide less friction, however; I feel it is a jump in logic
to
> >>say that it necasarly means enough reduction in wear to make a
significant
> >>difference in engine life (or tranny life or diff life, etc...).
> >
> >
> > Some differentials and such specify synth only. I know of NO
> > light duty application product that does this. This means some
> > things to some people, something else to others....
> >
> >
> >
> >>I have
> >>seen one report of gaining 10.1 hp and 6.1 lb-ft torque as measured on
a
> >>Dyno comparing standard oil and synthetic as reported by Hot Rod
Magazine
> >>for Royal Purple Synthetic, which claims to be above and beyond other
> >>synthetics (http://www.royalpurple.com/retart0208/page1.shtml), but
Royal
> >>Purple has vested interest in selling their product... so how much
credit do
> >>give info from them? I'll buy your 1MPG gain... but does that, or the
> >>increase hp and torque, also translate to longer engine life?
> >
> >
> > I don't use Royal Purple and am unlikely to ever buy such a
> > hype happy product... Your Mileage May Vary.
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't know of any vehicle that leaves
> > the factory with this product, but there are several that leave
> > with Mobil 1 and specify such or similar.
> >
> > If you are asking if it will make your engine last longer, there
> > are too many factors involved for anything but a laboratory
> > test.... most of which have nothing to do with the oil and a
> > lot to do with hype.
> >
> > Even the information that notes that synthetic oils tend to need
> > fewer addons for any given issue are really mooted by simply
> > changing dino oil within the 3K range for normal duty, more often
> > for severe duty [of which the worst is a daily drive of less
> > than a mile].
> >
> >
> >>No problem I am trying to solve with it. I would change the oil as
often as
> >>it is "scientifically proven" to me that it should be, if that is at the
> >>same interval as normal oil then so be it. Of course then you have to
> >>figure expense into the 'is it worth it' equation.
> >
> >
> > As ONE factor, yes. If you look at the mainstream synth oil
> > sites [which IMNHO leaves off purple] they tell you to follow
> > the factory change intervals.
> >
> > I have no opportunity to test, but allegedly synth is also
> > superior for cold start. As in really cold start. As in
> > you may not care. It is also claimed to be able to handle
> > a wider viscosity range, which does have advantages if
> > you regularly drive across such conditions. Again, you
> > may or may not care.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: Synthetic Oils
 

In article <0z1Ua.140033$Ph3.17058@sccrnsc04>, Kevin <kevin@el.net> wrote:
>I run pure synthetics in my TJ. Everything I have seen indicates they
>are far better than dino oil. It cost me about $6. per quart, but that
>is cheep insurance for an engine. If synthetic oil can keep jet engines
>lubricated with the extremely high rpm's they turn , and high operating
>temps, thats enough to sell me.

I'm new here. I just purchased a used Jeep at wholesale and I normally
use synthetics in my VW. Mobil 1 for engine oil and Redline for MTF.

The Jeep will be a second car since my VW has 178K miles on it but still
runs great. I am currently fixing up the Jeep since it also has 189400 miles
on it but runs very good. I would really like to use synthetics in the
Jeep but at those miles I am afraid the Mobil 1 would loosen up the seals
and start leaking out. How about synthetic in the transmission? I would
like to hear if someone has switched to synthetic with a high mileage
Jeep out there.


--
<html><form><input type crash></form></html>
nospam@zero.com Replace nospam with jetta to reply via e-mail

Re: Synthetic Oils
 

Peter Parker wrote:
> In article <0z1Ua.140033$Ph3.17058@sccrnsc04>, Kevin <kevin@el.net> wrote:
>
>>I run pure synthetics in my TJ. Everything I have seen indicates they
>>are far better than dino oil. It cost me about $6. per quart, but that
>>is cheep insurance for an engine. If synthetic oil can keep jet engines
>>lubricated with the extremely high rpm's they turn , and high operating
>>temps, thats enough to sell me.
>
>
> I'm new here. I just purchased a used Jeep at wholesale and I normally
> use synthetics in my VW. Mobil 1 for engine oil and Redline for MTF.
>
> The Jeep will be a second car since my VW has 178K miles on it but still
> runs great. I am currently fixing up the Jeep since it also has 189400 miles
> on it but runs very good. I would really like to use synthetics in the
> Jeep but at those miles I am afraid the Mobil 1 would loosen up the seals
> and start leaking out. How about synthetic in the transmission? I would
> like to hear if someone has switched to synthetic with a high mileage
> Jeep out there.
>
>
I run full synthetic in my transmission which I changer to synth at
55,000 miles. No problems at all, but thats no where near the mileage
your dealing with. Maybe others can help.

Re: Synthetic Oils
 

Whenever I think of any synthetic, I think of Mobil's AV-1, any other pilots
out there may recall the FAA pulling it (about '93-95) because of a problem
breaking down under heat, and turning to a rather unique gooey mess, and
plugging the crankshaft, and governor screen, along with causing excessive
wear in the top end. It was the greatest thing going until then....

fool me once, shame on me........


"Peter Parker" <nospam@zero.com> wrote in message
news:3f2111a9$1_2@nntp2.nac.net...
> In article <0z1Ua.140033$Ph3.17058@sccrnsc04>, Kevin <kevin@el.net>
wrote:
> >I run pure synthetics in my TJ. Everything I have seen indicates they
> >are far better than dino oil. It cost me about $6. per quart, but that
> >is cheep insurance for an engine. If synthetic oil can keep jet engines
> >lubricated with the extremely high rpm's they turn , and high operating
> >temps, thats enough to sell me.
>
> I'm new here. I just purchased a used Jeep at wholesale and I normally
> use synthetics in my VW. Mobil 1 for engine oil and Redline for MTF.
>
> The Jeep will be a second car since my VW has 178K miles on it but still
> runs great. I am currently fixing up the Jeep since it also has 189400
miles
> on it but runs very good. I would really like to use synthetics in the
> Jeep but at those miles I am afraid the Mobil 1 would loosen up the seals
> and start leaking out. How about synthetic in the transmission? I would
> like to hear if someone has switched to synthetic with a high mileage
> Jeep out there.
>
>
> --
> <html><form><input type crash></form></html>
> nospam@zero.com Replace nospam with jetta to reply via e-mail

Re: Synthetic Oils
 

Yep, that was a real stinker situation... Mobil paid for many aircraft
engine rebuilds and I never forgot that. That's one reason I'm not totally
on the synthetic oil bandwagon since it's not quite the miracle lube some
think it is.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

"A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:fQlUa.23449$vx3.6244616@kent.svc.tds.net...
> Whenever I think of any synthetic, I think of Mobil's AV-1, any other
pilots
> out there may recall the FAA pulling it (about '93-95) because of a
problem
> breaking down under heat, and turning to a rather unique gooey mess, and
> plugging the crankshaft, and governor screen, along with causing excessive
> wear in the top end. It was the greatest thing going until then....
>
> fool me once, shame on me........
>
>
> "Peter Parker" <nospam@zero.com> wrote in message
> news:3f2111a9$1_2@nntp2.nac.net...
> > In article <0z1Ua.140033$Ph3.17058@sccrnsc04>, Kevin <kevin@el.net>
> wrote:
> > >I run pure synthetics in my TJ. Everything I have seen indicates they
> > >are far better than dino oil. It cost me about $6. per quart, but that
> > >is cheep insurance for an engine. If synthetic oil can keep jet engines
> > >lubricated with the extremely high rpm's they turn , and high operating
> > >temps, thats enough to sell me.
> >
> > I'm new here. I just purchased a used Jeep at wholesale and I normally
> > use synthetics in my VW. Mobil 1 for engine oil and Redline for MTF.
> >
> > The Jeep will be a second car since my VW has 178K miles on it but still
> > runs great. I am currently fixing up the Jeep since it also has 189400
> miles
> > on it but runs very good. I would really like to use synthetics in the
> > Jeep but at those miles I am afraid the Mobil 1 would loosen up the
seals
> > and start leaking out. How about synthetic in the transmission? I would
> > like to hear if someone has switched to synthetic with a high mileage
> > Jeep out there.
> >
> >
> > --
> > <html><form><input type crash></form></html>
> > nospam@zero.com Replace nospam with jetta to reply via e-mail
>
>