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starting problem
Jeep in question is on my site below. 85 cj7 with a 304 from a 76.
I googled the archives and found a bunch of similar problems listed, but mine is a little different. I got the jeep running yesterday and went driving around town. After a few stops I picked up the kids at daycare. With them both buckled in the rear seat I turn the key and get a slow groan and then a click. I think, hmmm, that new optima battery is crap, not worth the money like the guys on the ng said. Then I look at the volt meter it's at 13. I get a guy to jump me and after letting the thing charge for several minutes I get the same click. Lights are strong, volts now at 14+, everything electrical works. I start looking under the jeep and found the lower starter bolt was loose and I think, hmm the starter is jammed...I tighten the starter, and try it....click. I bang on the starter with a hammer....click.. The kids are getting restless, I rock the jeep back and forth in gear to try and turn the flywheel .....click. I finally give up and get a ride home. I return with my truck and tow the jeep home. Luckily I had the tow bar already in place on the jeep. Today I remove the starter from the jeep and lay it on the front spring, turn the key and...click. I replace the relay on the inside front fender with an old one I had laying around....click. I completely remove the starter from the jeep, wiring and all and still get the same ....click. I had thought the "click" was the solenoid pushing the starter gear into place, but I guess not since the starter is now gone and the click is still there. What is the click? Oh yea, the volt meter drops to below 0 when I get the click. All battery cables are new, the battery and starter is new, connections look good and tight. I'm going to check the ground strap from motor to frame tomorrow. I don't have a strap to the firewall like some, but I'm thinking of adding one. Also, I am taking the starter to get tested and/or return it. I hope that is it, but by reading some of the archives, I kind of doubt it. Any other suggestions? -- ___________________ HomeBrewer http://85cj7.blogspot.com/ http://85cj7.webhop.net/ http://funfacts.webhop.org/ "When you decide something is impossible to do, try to stay out of the way of the man that's doing it." |
Re: starting problem
"HomeBrewer" <85cj7XXX@cox.net> wrote in message news:3ac2t5F697bjeU1@individual.net... > Jeep in question is on my site below. 85 cj7 with a 304 from a 76. > I googled the archives and found a bunch of similar problems listed, but > mine is a little different. I got the jeep running yesterday and went > driving around town. After a few stops I picked up the kids at daycare. With > them both buckled in the rear seat I turn the key and get a slow groan and > then a click. I think, hmmm, that new optima battery is crap, not worth the > money like the guys on the ng said. Then I look at the volt meter it's at > 13. I get a guy to jump me and after letting the thing charge for several > minutes I get the same click. Lights are strong, volts now at 14+, > everything electrical works. > > I start looking under the jeep and found the lower starter bolt was loose > and I think, hmm the starter is jammed...I tighten the starter, and try > it....click. I bang on the starter with a hammer....click.. The kids are > getting restless, I rock the jeep back and forth in gear to try and turn the > flywheel .....click. I finally give up and get a ride home. I return with my > truck and tow the jeep home. Luckily I had the tow bar already in place on > the jeep. > > Today I remove the starter from the jeep and lay it on the front spring, > turn the key and...click. I replace the relay on the inside front fender > with an old one I had laying around....click. I completely remove the > starter from the jeep, wiring and all and still get the same ....click. I > had thought the "click" was the solenoid pushing the starter gear into > place, but I guess not since the starter is now gone and the click is still > there. What is the click? Oh yea, the volt meter drops to below 0 when I get > the click. > There is a relatively light click that comes from the relay that is bolted to the fender. There is a very heavy click, clunk really, that comes from the starter motor itself. This is the solenoid that is throwing the starter gear into the flywheel. Normally the part on the fender fails, the contacts inside burn up. It clicks closed to pass high current to the starter, but since the contacts are burnt the juice doesn't flow. > All battery cables are new, the battery and starter is new, connections look > good and tight. I'm going to check the ground strap from motor to frame > tomorrow. I don't have a strap to the firewall like some, but I'm thinking > of adding one. Also, I am taking the starter to get tested and/or return it. > I hope that is it, but by reading some of the archives, I kind of doubt it. > Any other suggestions? > It is sounding to me like you have a shorted winding in the starter motor. I recently had one of those. My Jeep would still start if I could get it rolling and dump the clutch. When you are at the store, check the new starter thay the pull off the shelf for you, when I was there the new motor was also toast and the guy had to go back and get yet another one. |
Re: starting problem
"HomeBrewer" <85cj7XXX@cox.net> wrote in message news:3ac2t5F697bjeU1@individual.net... > Jeep in question is on my site below. 85 cj7 with a 304 from a 76. > I googled the archives and found a bunch of similar problems listed, but > mine is a little different. I got the jeep running yesterday and went > driving around town. After a few stops I picked up the kids at daycare. With > them both buckled in the rear seat I turn the key and get a slow groan and > then a click. I think, hmmm, that new optima battery is crap, not worth the > money like the guys on the ng said. Then I look at the volt meter it's at > 13. I get a guy to jump me and after letting the thing charge for several > minutes I get the same click. Lights are strong, volts now at 14+, > everything electrical works. > > I start looking under the jeep and found the lower starter bolt was loose > and I think, hmm the starter is jammed...I tighten the starter, and try > it....click. I bang on the starter with a hammer....click.. The kids are > getting restless, I rock the jeep back and forth in gear to try and turn the > flywheel .....click. I finally give up and get a ride home. I return with my > truck and tow the jeep home. Luckily I had the tow bar already in place on > the jeep. > > Today I remove the starter from the jeep and lay it on the front spring, > turn the key and...click. I replace the relay on the inside front fender > with an old one I had laying around....click. I completely remove the > starter from the jeep, wiring and all and still get the same ....click. I > had thought the "click" was the solenoid pushing the starter gear into > place, but I guess not since the starter is now gone and the click is still > there. What is the click? Oh yea, the volt meter drops to below 0 when I get > the click. > There is a relatively light click that comes from the relay that is bolted to the fender. There is a very heavy click, clunk really, that comes from the starter motor itself. This is the solenoid that is throwing the starter gear into the flywheel. Normally the part on the fender fails, the contacts inside burn up. It clicks closed to pass high current to the starter, but since the contacts are burnt the juice doesn't flow. > All battery cables are new, the battery and starter is new, connections look > good and tight. I'm going to check the ground strap from motor to frame > tomorrow. I don't have a strap to the firewall like some, but I'm thinking > of adding one. Also, I am taking the starter to get tested and/or return it. > I hope that is it, but by reading some of the archives, I kind of doubt it. > Any other suggestions? > It is sounding to me like you have a shorted winding in the starter motor. I recently had one of those. My Jeep would still start if I could get it rolling and dump the clutch. When you are at the store, check the new starter thay the pull off the shelf for you, when I was there the new motor was also toast and the guy had to go back and get yet another one. |
Re: starting problem
"HomeBrewer" <85cj7XXX@cox.net> wrote in message news:3ac2t5F697bjeU1@individual.net... > Jeep in question is on my site below. 85 cj7 with a 304 from a 76. > I googled the archives and found a bunch of similar problems listed, but > mine is a little different. I got the jeep running yesterday and went > driving around town. After a few stops I picked up the kids at daycare. With > them both buckled in the rear seat I turn the key and get a slow groan and > then a click. I think, hmmm, that new optima battery is crap, not worth the > money like the guys on the ng said. Then I look at the volt meter it's at > 13. I get a guy to jump me and after letting the thing charge for several > minutes I get the same click. Lights are strong, volts now at 14+, > everything electrical works. > > I start looking under the jeep and found the lower starter bolt was loose > and I think, hmm the starter is jammed...I tighten the starter, and try > it....click. I bang on the starter with a hammer....click.. The kids are > getting restless, I rock the jeep back and forth in gear to try and turn the > flywheel .....click. I finally give up and get a ride home. I return with my > truck and tow the jeep home. Luckily I had the tow bar already in place on > the jeep. > > Today I remove the starter from the jeep and lay it on the front spring, > turn the key and...click. I replace the relay on the inside front fender > with an old one I had laying around....click. I completely remove the > starter from the jeep, wiring and all and still get the same ....click. I > had thought the "click" was the solenoid pushing the starter gear into > place, but I guess not since the starter is now gone and the click is still > there. What is the click? Oh yea, the volt meter drops to below 0 when I get > the click. > There is a relatively light click that comes from the relay that is bolted to the fender. There is a very heavy click, clunk really, that comes from the starter motor itself. This is the solenoid that is throwing the starter gear into the flywheel. Normally the part on the fender fails, the contacts inside burn up. It clicks closed to pass high current to the starter, but since the contacts are burnt the juice doesn't flow. > All battery cables are new, the battery and starter is new, connections look > good and tight. I'm going to check the ground strap from motor to frame > tomorrow. I don't have a strap to the firewall like some, but I'm thinking > of adding one. Also, I am taking the starter to get tested and/or return it. > I hope that is it, but by reading some of the archives, I kind of doubt it. > Any other suggestions? > It is sounding to me like you have a shorted winding in the starter motor. I recently had one of those. My Jeep would still start if I could get it rolling and dump the clutch. When you are at the store, check the new starter thay the pull off the shelf for you, when I was there the new motor was also toast and the guy had to go back and get yet another one. |
Re: starting problem
Jeff Strickland did pass the time by typing:
> It is sounding to me like you have a shorted winding in the starter motor. I > recently had one of those. My Jeep would still start if I could get it > rolling and dump the clutch. When you are at the store, check the new > starter thay the pull off the shelf for you, when I was there the new motor > was also toast and the guy had to go back and get yet another one. Don't discount alignment. At least with the Chevy 305 if you had the starter too close to the flywheel it would burn up trying to engage or get in there and be spun to death because it couldn't back out. -- DougW |
Re: starting problem
Jeff Strickland did pass the time by typing:
> It is sounding to me like you have a shorted winding in the starter motor. I > recently had one of those. My Jeep would still start if I could get it > rolling and dump the clutch. When you are at the store, check the new > starter thay the pull off the shelf for you, when I was there the new motor > was also toast and the guy had to go back and get yet another one. Don't discount alignment. At least with the Chevy 305 if you had the starter too close to the flywheel it would burn up trying to engage or get in there and be spun to death because it couldn't back out. -- DougW |
Re: starting problem
Jeff Strickland did pass the time by typing:
> It is sounding to me like you have a shorted winding in the starter motor. I > recently had one of those. My Jeep would still start if I could get it > rolling and dump the clutch. When you are at the store, check the new > starter thay the pull off the shelf for you, when I was there the new motor > was also toast and the guy had to go back and get yet another one. Don't discount alignment. At least with the Chevy 305 if you had the starter too close to the flywheel it would burn up trying to engage or get in there and be spun to death because it couldn't back out. -- DougW |
Re: starting problem
If your starter only clicks on a bench test, it is dead. The click is
the internal solenoid trying to fire likely. It likely was jammed because of the loose bolt which can cause the brush connections to melt out or a winding to smoke out or a brush to weld to the contact surface. Not having a body ground will usually cause the charging circuit to only put about a half charge into the battery and it forces things like the ignition module to scavenge a ground, usually through the distributor which sometimes works and sometimes won't. That can also affect the starter solenoid or relay on the fender. It needs a good ground to complete the 'fire' circuit. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's HomeBrewer wrote: > > Jeep in question is on my site below. 85 cj7 with a 304 from a 76. > I googled the archives and found a bunch of similar problems listed, but > mine is a little different. I got the jeep running yesterday and went > driving around town. After a few stops I picked up the kids at daycare. With > them both buckled in the rear seat I turn the key and get a slow groan and > then a click. I think, hmmm, that new optima battery is crap, not worth the > money like the guys on the ng said. Then I look at the volt meter it's at > 13. I get a guy to jump me and after letting the thing charge for several > minutes I get the same click. Lights are strong, volts now at 14+, > everything electrical works. > > I start looking under the jeep and found the lower starter bolt was loose > and I think, hmm the starter is jammed...I tighten the starter, and try > it....click. I bang on the starter with a hammer....click.. The kids are > getting restless, I rock the jeep back and forth in gear to try and turn the > flywheel .....click. I finally give up and get a ride home. I return with my > truck and tow the jeep home. Luckily I had the tow bar already in place on > the jeep. > > Today I remove the starter from the jeep and lay it on the front spring, > turn the key and...click. I replace the relay on the inside front fender > with an old one I had laying around....click. I completely remove the > starter from the jeep, wiring and all and still get the same ....click. I > had thought the "click" was the solenoid pushing the starter gear into > place, but I guess not since the starter is now gone and the click is still > there. What is the click? Oh yea, the volt meter drops to below 0 when I get > the click. > > All battery cables are new, the battery and starter is new, connections look > good and tight. I'm going to check the ground strap from motor to frame > tomorrow. I don't have a strap to the firewall like some, but I'm thinking > of adding one. Also, I am taking the starter to get tested and/or return it. > I hope that is it, but by reading some of the archives, I kind of doubt it. > Any other suggestions? > > -- > ___________________ > HomeBrewer > http://85cj7.blogspot.com/ > http://85cj7.webhop.net/ > http://funfacts.webhop.org/ > "When you decide something is impossible to do, try to stay out of the way > of the man that's doing it." |
Re: starting problem
If your starter only clicks on a bench test, it is dead. The click is
the internal solenoid trying to fire likely. It likely was jammed because of the loose bolt which can cause the brush connections to melt out or a winding to smoke out or a brush to weld to the contact surface. Not having a body ground will usually cause the charging circuit to only put about a half charge into the battery and it forces things like the ignition module to scavenge a ground, usually through the distributor which sometimes works and sometimes won't. That can also affect the starter solenoid or relay on the fender. It needs a good ground to complete the 'fire' circuit. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's HomeBrewer wrote: > > Jeep in question is on my site below. 85 cj7 with a 304 from a 76. > I googled the archives and found a bunch of similar problems listed, but > mine is a little different. I got the jeep running yesterday and went > driving around town. After a few stops I picked up the kids at daycare. With > them both buckled in the rear seat I turn the key and get a slow groan and > then a click. I think, hmmm, that new optima battery is crap, not worth the > money like the guys on the ng said. Then I look at the volt meter it's at > 13. I get a guy to jump me and after letting the thing charge for several > minutes I get the same click. Lights are strong, volts now at 14+, > everything electrical works. > > I start looking under the jeep and found the lower starter bolt was loose > and I think, hmm the starter is jammed...I tighten the starter, and try > it....click. I bang on the starter with a hammer....click.. The kids are > getting restless, I rock the jeep back and forth in gear to try and turn the > flywheel .....click. I finally give up and get a ride home. I return with my > truck and tow the jeep home. Luckily I had the tow bar already in place on > the jeep. > > Today I remove the starter from the jeep and lay it on the front spring, > turn the key and...click. I replace the relay on the inside front fender > with an old one I had laying around....click. I completely remove the > starter from the jeep, wiring and all and still get the same ....click. I > had thought the "click" was the solenoid pushing the starter gear into > place, but I guess not since the starter is now gone and the click is still > there. What is the click? Oh yea, the volt meter drops to below 0 when I get > the click. > > All battery cables are new, the battery and starter is new, connections look > good and tight. I'm going to check the ground strap from motor to frame > tomorrow. I don't have a strap to the firewall like some, but I'm thinking > of adding one. Also, I am taking the starter to get tested and/or return it. > I hope that is it, but by reading some of the archives, I kind of doubt it. > Any other suggestions? > > -- > ___________________ > HomeBrewer > http://85cj7.blogspot.com/ > http://85cj7.webhop.net/ > http://funfacts.webhop.org/ > "When you decide something is impossible to do, try to stay out of the way > of the man that's doing it." |
Re: starting problem
If your starter only clicks on a bench test, it is dead. The click is
the internal solenoid trying to fire likely. It likely was jammed because of the loose bolt which can cause the brush connections to melt out or a winding to smoke out or a brush to weld to the contact surface. Not having a body ground will usually cause the charging circuit to only put about a half charge into the battery and it forces things like the ignition module to scavenge a ground, usually through the distributor which sometimes works and sometimes won't. That can also affect the starter solenoid or relay on the fender. It needs a good ground to complete the 'fire' circuit. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's HomeBrewer wrote: > > Jeep in question is on my site below. 85 cj7 with a 304 from a 76. > I googled the archives and found a bunch of similar problems listed, but > mine is a little different. I got the jeep running yesterday and went > driving around town. After a few stops I picked up the kids at daycare. With > them both buckled in the rear seat I turn the key and get a slow groan and > then a click. I think, hmmm, that new optima battery is crap, not worth the > money like the guys on the ng said. Then I look at the volt meter it's at > 13. I get a guy to jump me and after letting the thing charge for several > minutes I get the same click. Lights are strong, volts now at 14+, > everything electrical works. > > I start looking under the jeep and found the lower starter bolt was loose > and I think, hmm the starter is jammed...I tighten the starter, and try > it....click. I bang on the starter with a hammer....click.. The kids are > getting restless, I rock the jeep back and forth in gear to try and turn the > flywheel .....click. I finally give up and get a ride home. I return with my > truck and tow the jeep home. Luckily I had the tow bar already in place on > the jeep. > > Today I remove the starter from the jeep and lay it on the front spring, > turn the key and...click. I replace the relay on the inside front fender > with an old one I had laying around....click. I completely remove the > starter from the jeep, wiring and all and still get the same ....click. I > had thought the "click" was the solenoid pushing the starter gear into > place, but I guess not since the starter is now gone and the click is still > there. What is the click? Oh yea, the volt meter drops to below 0 when I get > the click. > > All battery cables are new, the battery and starter is new, connections look > good and tight. I'm going to check the ground strap from motor to frame > tomorrow. I don't have a strap to the firewall like some, but I'm thinking > of adding one. Also, I am taking the starter to get tested and/or return it. > I hope that is it, but by reading some of the archives, I kind of doubt it. > Any other suggestions? > > -- > ___________________ > HomeBrewer > http://85cj7.blogspot.com/ > http://85cj7.webhop.net/ > http://funfacts.webhop.org/ > "When you decide something is impossible to do, try to stay out of the way > of the man that's doing it." |
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