Re: RFI - CO2 systems
 

The only problem is in charging the SCUBA tanks. No dive shop will charge a
SCUBA tank without the holder having a dive certification like PADI leagally
anyway. Also a good tank will cost considerably more than a CO2 bottle.
Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure than
air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.

I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to put
it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears by
it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever. He does have a special
regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it depressurizes.
Nathan as a welder can vouch for that.

The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale. Weigh
the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail. This
method works. It's how fire departments and the military (well the Navy
anyway) know whether a CO2 firefighting bottle is not full. Oh when buying
the CO2 bottle 20lb refers to the weight of the CO2 that can be held in the
tank not the weight of the bottle. Hmmm....

Look for fire fighting equiment on the net that might be a good source for
parts.

Hope this helps.
Rich Harris

Re: RFI - CO2 systems
 

The only problem is in charging the SCUBA tanks. No dive shop will charge a
SCUBA tank without the holder having a dive certification like PADI leagally
anyway. Also a good tank will cost considerably more than a CO2 bottle.
Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure than
air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.

I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to put
it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears by
it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever. He does have a special
regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it depressurizes.
Nathan as a welder can vouch for that.

The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale. Weigh
the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail. This
method works. It's how fire departments and the military (well the Navy
anyway) know whether a CO2 firefighting bottle is not full. Oh when buying
the CO2 bottle 20lb refers to the weight of the CO2 that can be held in the
tank not the weight of the bottle. Hmmm....

Look for fire fighting equiment on the net that might be a good source for
parts.

Hope this helps.
Rich Harris

Re: RFI - CO2 systems
 

The only problem is in charging the SCUBA tanks. No dive shop will charge a
SCUBA tank without the holder having a dive certification like PADI leagally
anyway. Also a good tank will cost considerably more than a CO2 bottle.
Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure than
air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.

I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to put
it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears by
it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever. He does have a special
regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it depressurizes.
Nathan as a welder can vouch for that.

The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale. Weigh
the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail. This
method works. It's how fire departments and the military (well the Navy
anyway) know whether a CO2 firefighting bottle is not full. Oh when buying
the CO2 bottle 20lb refers to the weight of the CO2 that can be held in the
tank not the weight of the bottle. Hmmm....

Look for fire fighting equiment on the net that might be a good source for
parts.

Hope this helps.
Rich Harris

Re: RFI - CO2 systems OT - welding
 

OK....I'm looking at doing some projects for the jeep that may require
welding.
I don't have a welder and haven't really stood behind the stick more than a
few times ( and was just trying it out then!).

So my question is, what's a good all purpose type of welder that is somewhat
cheap!
I know you probably want to know what I'd be welding, but I'll withhold that
unless it's reallyu needed!

I'm thinking of those arc welders that most people had in the back of their
garages. I figure picking one up at a garage sale shouldn't be too painful!



"Richard Harris" <SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:KYfkc.9878$IO6.2658@twister.socal.rr.com...
> The only problem is in charging the SCUBA tanks. No dive shop will charge
a
> SCUBA tank without the holder having a dive certification like PADI
leagally
> anyway. Also a good tank will cost considerably more than a CO2 bottle.
> Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure
than
> air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.
>
> I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to put
> it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears by
> it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
> seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever. He does have a
special
> regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it
depressurizes.
> Nathan as a welder can vouch for that.
>
> The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
> trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale.
Weigh
> the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
> somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
> bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
> Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail.
This
> method works. It's how fire departments and the military (well the Navy
> anyway) know whether a CO2 firefighting bottle is not full. Oh when buying
> the CO2 bottle 20lb refers to the weight of the CO2 that can be held in
the
> tank not the weight of the bottle. Hmmm....
>
> Look for fire fighting equiment on the net that might be a good source for
> parts.
>
> Hope this helps.
> Rich Harris
>
>

Re: RFI - CO2 systems OT - welding
 

OK....I'm looking at doing some projects for the jeep that may require
welding.
I don't have a welder and haven't really stood behind the stick more than a
few times ( and was just trying it out then!).

So my question is, what's a good all purpose type of welder that is somewhat
cheap!
I know you probably want to know what I'd be welding, but I'll withhold that
unless it's reallyu needed!

I'm thinking of those arc welders that most people had in the back of their
garages. I figure picking one up at a garage sale shouldn't be too painful!



"Richard Harris" <SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:KYfkc.9878$IO6.2658@twister.socal.rr.com...
> The only problem is in charging the SCUBA tanks. No dive shop will charge
a
> SCUBA tank without the holder having a dive certification like PADI
leagally
> anyway. Also a good tank will cost considerably more than a CO2 bottle.
> Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure
than
> air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.
>
> I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to put
> it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears by
> it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
> seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever. He does have a
special
> regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it
depressurizes.
> Nathan as a welder can vouch for that.
>
> The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
> trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale.
Weigh
> the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
> somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
> bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
> Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail.
This
> method works. It's how fire departments and the military (well the Navy
> anyway) know whether a CO2 firefighting bottle is not full. Oh when buying
> the CO2 bottle 20lb refers to the weight of the CO2 that can be held in
the
> tank not the weight of the bottle. Hmmm....
>
> Look for fire fighting equiment on the net that might be a good source for
> parts.
>
> Hope this helps.
> Rich Harris
>
>

Re: RFI - CO2 systems OT - welding
 

OK....I'm looking at doing some projects for the jeep that may require
welding.
I don't have a welder and haven't really stood behind the stick more than a
few times ( and was just trying it out then!).

So my question is, what's a good all purpose type of welder that is somewhat
cheap!
I know you probably want to know what I'd be welding, but I'll withhold that
unless it's reallyu needed!

I'm thinking of those arc welders that most people had in the back of their
garages. I figure picking one up at a garage sale shouldn't be too painful!



"Richard Harris" <SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:KYfkc.9878$IO6.2658@twister.socal.rr.com...
> The only problem is in charging the SCUBA tanks. No dive shop will charge
a
> SCUBA tank without the holder having a dive certification like PADI
leagally
> anyway. Also a good tank will cost considerably more than a CO2 bottle.
> Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure
than
> air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.
>
> I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to put
> it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears by
> it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
> seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever. He does have a
special
> regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it
depressurizes.
> Nathan as a welder can vouch for that.
>
> The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
> trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale.
Weigh
> the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
> somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
> bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
> Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail.
This
> method works. It's how fire departments and the military (well the Navy
> anyway) know whether a CO2 firefighting bottle is not full. Oh when buying
> the CO2 bottle 20lb refers to the weight of the CO2 that can be held in
the
> tank not the weight of the bottle. Hmmm....
>
> Look for fire fighting equiment on the net that might be a good source for
> parts.
>
> Hope this helps.
> Rich Harris
>
>

Re: RFI - CO2 systems OT - welding
 

OK....I'm looking at doing some projects for the jeep that may require
welding.
I don't have a welder and haven't really stood behind the stick more than a
few times ( and was just trying it out then!).

So my question is, what's a good all purpose type of welder that is somewhat
cheap!
I know you probably want to know what I'd be welding, but I'll withhold that
unless it's reallyu needed!

I'm thinking of those arc welders that most people had in the back of their
garages. I figure picking one up at a garage sale shouldn't be too painful!



"Richard Harris" <SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:KYfkc.9878$IO6.2658@twister.socal.rr.com...
> The only problem is in charging the SCUBA tanks. No dive shop will charge
a
> SCUBA tank without the holder having a dive certification like PADI
leagally
> anyway. Also a good tank will cost considerably more than a CO2 bottle.
> Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure
than
> air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.
>
> I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to put
> it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears by
> it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
> seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever. He does have a
special
> regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it
depressurizes.
> Nathan as a welder can vouch for that.
>
> The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
> trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale.
Weigh
> the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
> somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
> bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
> Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail.
This
> method works. It's how fire departments and the military (well the Navy
> anyway) know whether a CO2 firefighting bottle is not full. Oh when buying
> the CO2 bottle 20lb refers to the weight of the CO2 that can be held in
the
> tank not the weight of the bottle. Hmmm....
>
> Look for fire fighting equiment on the net that might be a good source for
> parts.
>
> Hope this helps.
> Rich Harris
>
>

Re: RFI - CO2 systems
 

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:11:38 GMT, "Richard Harris" <SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com>
wrote:

<snip>

>Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure than
>air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.

The safety margin for CO2 vs a scuba tank isn't so much in the strength margin
of the bottle but in how the energy is released if there is an accident. A
3,000 psi scuba tank is going to release its energy all at once, think shrapnel,
think bomb. :-( If a CO2 bottle is punctured in an accident the liquid CO2 will
change immediately to a solid (dry ice) and gradually evaporate. That said I
wouldn't want to be anywhere near either bottle in an accident.

>I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to put
>it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears by
>it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
>seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever.

CO2 will run air tools just fine. In fact I can't tell a bit of difference
between the CO2 and my shop compressor, except cost. A full 5 lb CO2 bottle
will fill about 20 33x12.5 tires.

>He does have a special
>regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it depressurizes.

All compressed gas cools as it expands, so all regulators that I know of are
designed with that in mind. When I fill my tires the regulator and first 6
inches of the hose will get covered in frost. I live in a place that considers
20% humidity to be muggy so I don't know how it would behave in a place with
real humidity. <g>

>The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
>trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale. Weigh
>the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
>somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
>bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
>Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail. This
>method works.

You are absolutely correct. The problem is that the places that fill CO2 don't
charge by the pound, but by the fill. So it costs the same to fill an empty
bottle as one that is only partially empty. I can be a cheap SOB and I hate not
getting everything I paid for. <g>

One other problem that isn't talked about much is where do you get the bottle
refilled? If it is close to home it is no big deal, but if you live in a small
town they might have to send it out to be filled. I found this out the hard way
when after a couple of day of wheeling in Moab my bottle went dry. No, biggie I
thought. There is a welding supply right on the main street of town. Well,
they couldn't fill it for me because they send everything to a bigger town to be
filled, and it would take a couple of days.

Like I said before CO2 is the best gas for this application. You can build one
yourself for around $150 - $180 in an afternoon. They are simple and basically
fool proof. They can easily be moved from vehicle to vehicle. BUT if you plan
to keep your Jeep for a long time the belt driven compressor will pay for itself
over the long haul.

Regards,
Dean

Re: RFI - CO2 systems
 

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:11:38 GMT, "Richard Harris" <SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com>
wrote:

<snip>

>Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure than
>air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.

The safety margin for CO2 vs a scuba tank isn't so much in the strength margin
of the bottle but in how the energy is released if there is an accident. A
3,000 psi scuba tank is going to release its energy all at once, think shrapnel,
think bomb. :-( If a CO2 bottle is punctured in an accident the liquid CO2 will
change immediately to a solid (dry ice) and gradually evaporate. That said I
wouldn't want to be anywhere near either bottle in an accident.

>I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to put
>it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears by
>it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
>seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever.

CO2 will run air tools just fine. In fact I can't tell a bit of difference
between the CO2 and my shop compressor, except cost. A full 5 lb CO2 bottle
will fill about 20 33x12.5 tires.

>He does have a special
>regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it depressurizes.

All compressed gas cools as it expands, so all regulators that I know of are
designed with that in mind. When I fill my tires the regulator and first 6
inches of the hose will get covered in frost. I live in a place that considers
20% humidity to be muggy so I don't know how it would behave in a place with
real humidity. <g>

>The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
>trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale. Weigh
>the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
>somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
>bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
>Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail. This
>method works.

You are absolutely correct. The problem is that the places that fill CO2 don't
charge by the pound, but by the fill. So it costs the same to fill an empty
bottle as one that is only partially empty. I can be a cheap SOB and I hate not
getting everything I paid for. <g>

One other problem that isn't talked about much is where do you get the bottle
refilled? If it is close to home it is no big deal, but if you live in a small
town they might have to send it out to be filled. I found this out the hard way
when after a couple of day of wheeling in Moab my bottle went dry. No, biggie I
thought. There is a welding supply right on the main street of town. Well,
they couldn't fill it for me because they send everything to a bigger town to be
filled, and it would take a couple of days.

Like I said before CO2 is the best gas for this application. You can build one
yourself for around $150 - $180 in an afternoon. They are simple and basically
fool proof. They can easily be moved from vehicle to vehicle. BUT if you plan
to keep your Jeep for a long time the belt driven compressor will pay for itself
over the long haul.

Regards,
Dean

Re: RFI - CO2 systems
 

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:11:38 GMT, "Richard Harris" <SHARRIS11nospam@san.rr.com>
wrote:

<snip>

>Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure than
>air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle.

The safety margin for CO2 vs a scuba tank isn't so much in the strength margin
of the bottle but in how the energy is released if there is an accident. A
3,000 psi scuba tank is going to release its energy all at once, think shrapnel,
think bomb. :-( If a CO2 bottle is punctured in an accident the liquid CO2 will
change immediately to a solid (dry ice) and gradually evaporate. That said I
wouldn't want to be anywhere near either bottle in an accident.

>I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to put
>it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears by
>it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've
>seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever.

CO2 will run air tools just fine. In fact I can't tell a bit of difference
between the CO2 and my shop compressor, except cost. A full 5 lb CO2 bottle
will fill about 20 33x12.5 tires.

>He does have a special
>regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it depressurizes.

All compressed gas cools as it expands, so all regulators that I know of are
designed with that in mind. When I fill my tires the regulator and first 6
inches of the hose will get covered in frost. I live in a place that considers
20% humidity to be muggy so I don't know how it would behave in a place with
real humidity. <g>

>The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the
>trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale. Weigh
>the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it
>somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the
>bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle.
>Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail. This
>method works.

You are absolutely correct. The problem is that the places that fill CO2 don't
charge by the pound, but by the fill. So it costs the same to fill an empty
bottle as one that is only partially empty. I can be a cheap SOB and I hate not
getting everything I paid for. <g>

One other problem that isn't talked about much is where do you get the bottle
refilled? If it is close to home it is no big deal, but if you live in a small
town they might have to send it out to be filled. I found this out the hard way
when after a couple of day of wheeling in Moab my bottle went dry. No, biggie I
thought. There is a welding supply right on the main street of town. Well,
they couldn't fill it for me because they send everything to a bigger town to be
filled, and it would take a couple of days.

Like I said before CO2 is the best gas for this application. You can build one
yourself for around $150 - $180 in an afternoon. They are simple and basically
fool proof. They can easily be moved from vehicle to vehicle. BUT if you plan
to keep your Jeep for a long time the belt driven compressor will pay for itself
over the long haul.

Regards,
Dean