Re: Pix are up!
 

Looks nice....

As others have commented, Oh to have a shop like that!

I do have a couple comments for you on the build. Take them for what
they are worth. ;-)

You bent the new brake lines the same as stock ones. Stock ones rely on
the leaf spring for protection. Your leafs are on top now.

The first branch that pops up and slides along the axle is going to hit
one of the u-bolts and get directed right into that brake line dip and
tear the line off. Or a rock that you might back into will crush it.

If the spring was there, the branch or rock would just slide along the
spring.

If I was mine, I would run the line up over top.

I run in bush and have even hooked the top flex line in the rear and
have seen many others get hooked on the top line and e-brake cable.

Speaking of e-brake cable...

You did this: "and custom-machined brass ends on the aircraft cable.
These were affixed using a solder pot."

Sorry to tell you but no way solder has even close to the shear strength
needed to hold a brake cable into a fitting.

The cable has to hold almost the same pressure the hydraulics put out to
make the rear brakes stop you.

Brazing 'usually' will, but I have even seen brazed on steel ends let
go. (used to ice race front wheel drive cars, the e-brake was in
constant use on corners, we used to wear the cables out fast, even oiled
up good and 'quick fixes' were the norm to get you through the next
heat.)

If it was mine, I would get the cable ready and take it and the fittings
to a machine shop and pay a couple bucks to have the fittings properly
pressed on. I think they should be steel fittings too, not brass.
Brass won't hold the crimp near well enough.

That emergency brake has saved my butt more than a couple times and
there have been more than a couple times when I sure wished the damn
thing worked, last time on the Labor Day weekend even. Lost a complete
brake pad, metal backing and all somehow at 60 mph and the pedal went to
the floor. Broke the e-brake cable a couple weeks before that.... Used
the gears ok, but had visions of turning the key off to use engine
compression if needed.

Anyway, my $0.02 for you.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Cal Wheeler wrote:
>
> Hey Gerald, and any other YJ owners...here are the pics of my current YJ
> progress to date!
>
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/calwheele...yjproject.html

Re: Pix are up!
 

Mike Romain wrote:

> Looks nice....
>
> As others have commented, Oh to have a shop like that!

Thanks, Mike. Lots of people are liking the shop!
>
> I do have a couple comments for you on the build. Take them for what
> they are worth. ;-)

;-)

>
> You bent the new brake lines the same as stock ones. Stock ones rely on
> the leaf spring for protection. Your leafs are on top now.
>
> The first branch that pops up and slides along the axle is going to hit
> one of the u-bolts and get directed right into that brake line dip and
> tear the line off. Or a rock that you might back into will crush it.

Or rolling over a boulder and having the axle drop and scrape down it...
>
> If the spring was there, the branch or rock would just slide along the
> spring.

You're absolutely right.
>
> If I was mine, I would run the line up over top.

You have a very good point. I did it because, yes, that's how the
stocker was, and also because that was the shortest distance between the
the rear wheel port and the vent plug that I used as an anchor point
for the t-fitting. It's definitely vulnerable, and I can modify it, but
I still have to deal with where the brake port is; I wish THAT would
have been on top as well.

Maybe I can fab up some armor just for that area...


>
> I run in bush and have even hooked the top flex line in the rear and
> have seen many others get hooked on the top line and e-brake cable.
>
> Speaking of e-brake cable...
>
> You did this: "and custom-machined brass ends on the aircraft cable.
> These were affixed using a solder pot."
>
> Sorry to tell you but no way solder has even close to the shear strength
> needed to hold a brake cable into a fitting.

Sh*t. All that work for nuthin'! :(
>
> The cable has to hold almost the same pressure the hydraulics put out to
> make the rear brakes stop you.
>
> Brazing 'usually' will, but I have even seen brazed on steel ends let
> go. (used to ice race front wheel drive cars, the e-brake was in
> constant use on corners, we used to wear the cables out fast, even oiled
> up good and 'quick fixes' were the norm to get you through the next
> heat.)
>
> If it was mine, I would get the cable ready and take it and the fittings
> to a machine shop and pay a couple bucks to have the fittings properly
> pressed on. I think they should be steel fittings too, not brass.
> Brass won't hold the crimp near well enough.
>
> That emergency brake has saved my butt more than a couple times and
> there have been more than a couple times when I sure wished the damn
> thing worked, last time on the Labor Day weekend even. Lost a complete
> brake pad, metal backing and all somehow at 60 mph and the pedal went to
> the floor. Broke the e-brake cable a couple weeks before that.... Used
> the gears ok, but had visions of turning the key off to use engine
> compression if needed.
>
> Anyway, my $0.02 for you.

Good points all. I thought I was being clever. But I'd hate to set the
e-brake only to watch it roll away and tumble down some rock pile I'd
just struggled to the top of because the solder broke loose. Thank you
very much for the heads up. I mean it sincerely.

Re: Pix are up!
 

Mike Romain wrote:

> Looks nice....
>
> As others have commented, Oh to have a shop like that!

Thanks, Mike. Lots of people are liking the shop!
>
> I do have a couple comments for you on the build. Take them for what
> they are worth. ;-)

;-)

>
> You bent the new brake lines the same as stock ones. Stock ones rely on
> the leaf spring for protection. Your leafs are on top now.
>
> The first branch that pops up and slides along the axle is going to hit
> one of the u-bolts and get directed right into that brake line dip and
> tear the line off. Or a rock that you might back into will crush it.

Or rolling over a boulder and having the axle drop and scrape down it...
>
> If the spring was there, the branch or rock would just slide along the
> spring.

You're absolutely right.
>
> If I was mine, I would run the line up over top.

You have a very good point. I did it because, yes, that's how the
stocker was, and also because that was the shortest distance between the
the rear wheel port and the vent plug that I used as an anchor point
for the t-fitting. It's definitely vulnerable, and I can modify it, but
I still have to deal with where the brake port is; I wish THAT would
have been on top as well.

Maybe I can fab up some armor just for that area...


>
> I run in bush and have even hooked the top flex line in the rear and
> have seen many others get hooked on the top line and e-brake cable.
>
> Speaking of e-brake cable...
>
> You did this: "and custom-machined brass ends on the aircraft cable.
> These were affixed using a solder pot."
>
> Sorry to tell you but no way solder has even close to the shear strength
> needed to hold a brake cable into a fitting.

Sh*t. All that work for nuthin'! :(
>
> The cable has to hold almost the same pressure the hydraulics put out to
> make the rear brakes stop you.
>
> Brazing 'usually' will, but I have even seen brazed on steel ends let
> go. (used to ice race front wheel drive cars, the e-brake was in
> constant use on corners, we used to wear the cables out fast, even oiled
> up good and 'quick fixes' were the norm to get you through the next
> heat.)
>
> If it was mine, I would get the cable ready and take it and the fittings
> to a machine shop and pay a couple bucks to have the fittings properly
> pressed on. I think they should be steel fittings too, not brass.
> Brass won't hold the crimp near well enough.
>
> That emergency brake has saved my butt more than a couple times and
> there have been more than a couple times when I sure wished the damn
> thing worked, last time on the Labor Day weekend even. Lost a complete
> brake pad, metal backing and all somehow at 60 mph and the pedal went to
> the floor. Broke the e-brake cable a couple weeks before that.... Used
> the gears ok, but had visions of turning the key off to use engine
> compression if needed.
>
> Anyway, my $0.02 for you.

Good points all. I thought I was being clever. But I'd hate to set the
e-brake only to watch it roll away and tumble down some rock pile I'd
just struggled to the top of because the solder broke loose. Thank you
very much for the heads up. I mean it sincerely.

Re: Pix are up!
 

Cal Wheeler wrote:
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
>
> > Looks nice....
> >
> > As others have commented, Oh to have a shop like that!
>
> Thanks, Mike. Lots of people are liking the shop!
> >
> > I do have a couple comments for you on the build. Take them for what
> > they are worth. ;-)
>
> ;-)
>
> >
> > You bent the new brake lines the same as stock ones. Stock ones rely on
> > the leaf spring for protection. Your leafs are on top now.
> >
> > The first branch that pops up and slides along the axle is going to hit
> > one of the u-bolts and get directed right into that brake line dip and
> > tear the line off. Or a rock that you might back into will crush it.
>
> Or rolling over a boulder and having the axle drop and scrape down it...
> >
> > If the spring was there, the branch or rock would just slide along the
> > spring.
>
> You're absolutely right.
> >
> > If I was mine, I would run the line up over top.
>
> You have a very good point. I did it because, yes, that's how the
> stocker was, and also because that was the shortest distance between the
> the rear wheel port and the vent plug that I used as an anchor point
> for the t-fitting. It's definitely vulnerable, and I can modify it, but
> I still have to deal with where the brake port is; I wish THAT would
> have been on top as well.
>
> Maybe I can fab up some armor just for that area...

Those brake lines are set up strange... Any particular reason for the
big brass junction at the back of the drum? I 'really' don't like that
myself.

This puts the line 'way' out in the open just waiting to hook on
something in my mind, but then I am a bushwhacker, so I think trees and
stumps. I have even had a tree branch jump up and take out my fan
belt... First time off road in my 'new' CJ7 at midnight with only a bic
lighter and one pair of vise grips along... That was fun... I learned
'real' fast to always have a tool kit with me...

When I did my frame up build on my CJ7 I put all new lines in and tucked
them in close to the backing plate and to the top back of the axle
tube. There was no big brass junction on my setup.

I also didn't put the coil armor on mine. The ones I replaced were all
rotted where the coil was on, the bare places were still fine. Way too
much salt on our roads and the coil holds it and wet mud in.

Do you really need that brass junction on the backing plate? If not,
then a line right from the wheel cylinder, down tight on the backing
plate to the top back of the axle tube and across and up over the spring
to the splitter is what I would do. My t-fitting splitter is on top of
my Dana 44, but the back side should still be ok, that is where my lines
are. Then you only need a 'skid plate' for the splitter.... A couple
muffler u-bolts with a bent out plate or 2" angle iron welded between
them would work easy. Or a plate welded across the flat clamp part with
the u-bolts pointing to the back and down a bit might clear it and
protect it.

Oh, by the by, where are you running the vent line from on the axle?
Didn't see it in the photos.

And if you are figuring on any water crossings, just be aware that a
Jeep doesn't have a high water vent for the transmission, they just have
a stupid button vent on the top side of the shifter tower. I pulled out
my button vent and glued a piece of 5/16 gas line in the hole with JB
weld to make a nipple for a tranny vent. I had to hammer it in, it was
a tight fit, but used the glue anyway. I then ran the line up above the
battery on the firewall where the t-case vent goes. I also ran my rear
diff vent line inside the frame all the way up to the front and
terminated it in the same place above the battery, same for my front
diff vent, but it just ran along my engine to the firewall. I used
transmission cooler line, bought a 25' roll.

I also opened every plug and socket I could get my mitts on and put
dielectric grease on all the seals/seats.

I can run in standing water 42" deep (bottom of my headlights) with a
bow wave over the hood and one very wet butt and have all my fluids
check out clear after for water contamination. Just changed my rear
diff fluid for the first time in 5 years and it came out clean gear
oil. Well, too many metal shavings from a blown pinion bearing, but no
water....

Just a couple more thoughts for you....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Re: Pix are up!
 

Cal Wheeler wrote:
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
>
> > Looks nice....
> >
> > As others have commented, Oh to have a shop like that!
>
> Thanks, Mike. Lots of people are liking the shop!
> >
> > I do have a couple comments for you on the build. Take them for what
> > they are worth. ;-)
>
> ;-)
>
> >
> > You bent the new brake lines the same as stock ones. Stock ones rely on
> > the leaf spring for protection. Your leafs are on top now.
> >
> > The first branch that pops up and slides along the axle is going to hit
> > one of the u-bolts and get directed right into that brake line dip and
> > tear the line off. Or a rock that you might back into will crush it.
>
> Or rolling over a boulder and having the axle drop and scrape down it...
> >
> > If the spring was there, the branch or rock would just slide along the
> > spring.
>
> You're absolutely right.
> >
> > If I was mine, I would run the line up over top.
>
> You have a very good point. I did it because, yes, that's how the
> stocker was, and also because that was the shortest distance between the
> the rear wheel port and the vent plug that I used as an anchor point
> for the t-fitting. It's definitely vulnerable, and I can modify it, but
> I still have to deal with where the brake port is; I wish THAT would
> have been on top as well.
>
> Maybe I can fab up some armor just for that area...

Those brake lines are set up strange... Any particular reason for the
big brass junction at the back of the drum? I 'really' don't like that
myself.

This puts the line 'way' out in the open just waiting to hook on
something in my mind, but then I am a bushwhacker, so I think trees and
stumps. I have even had a tree branch jump up and take out my fan
belt... First time off road in my 'new' CJ7 at midnight with only a bic
lighter and one pair of vise grips along... That was fun... I learned
'real' fast to always have a tool kit with me...

When I did my frame up build on my CJ7 I put all new lines in and tucked
them in close to the backing plate and to the top back of the axle
tube. There was no big brass junction on my setup.

I also didn't put the coil armor on mine. The ones I replaced were all
rotted where the coil was on, the bare places were still fine. Way too
much salt on our roads and the coil holds it and wet mud in.

Do you really need that brass junction on the backing plate? If not,
then a line right from the wheel cylinder, down tight on the backing
plate to the top back of the axle tube and across and up over the spring
to the splitter is what I would do. My t-fitting splitter is on top of
my Dana 44, but the back side should still be ok, that is where my lines
are. Then you only need a 'skid plate' for the splitter.... A couple
muffler u-bolts with a bent out plate or 2" angle iron welded between
them would work easy. Or a plate welded across the flat clamp part with
the u-bolts pointing to the back and down a bit might clear it and
protect it.

Oh, by the by, where are you running the vent line from on the axle?
Didn't see it in the photos.

And if you are figuring on any water crossings, just be aware that a
Jeep doesn't have a high water vent for the transmission, they just have
a stupid button vent on the top side of the shifter tower. I pulled out
my button vent and glued a piece of 5/16 gas line in the hole with JB
weld to make a nipple for a tranny vent. I had to hammer it in, it was
a tight fit, but used the glue anyway. I then ran the line up above the
battery on the firewall where the t-case vent goes. I also ran my rear
diff vent line inside the frame all the way up to the front and
terminated it in the same place above the battery, same for my front
diff vent, but it just ran along my engine to the firewall. I used
transmission cooler line, bought a 25' roll.

I also opened every plug and socket I could get my mitts on and put
dielectric grease on all the seals/seats.

I can run in standing water 42" deep (bottom of my headlights) with a
bow wave over the hood and one very wet butt and have all my fluids
check out clear after for water contamination. Just changed my rear
diff fluid for the first time in 5 years and it came out clean gear
oil. Well, too many metal shavings from a blown pinion bearing, but no
water....

Just a couple more thoughts for you....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Re: Pix are up!
 

Mike Romain wrote:

> Cal Wheeler wrote:
>
>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Looks nice....
>>>
>>>As others have commented, Oh to have a shop like that!
>>
>>Thanks, Mike. Lots of people are liking the shop!
>>
>>>I do have a couple comments for you on the build. Take them for what
>>>they are worth. ;-)
>>
>>;-)
>>
>>
>>>You bent the new brake lines the same as stock ones. Stock ones rely on
>>>the leaf spring for protection. Your leafs are on top now.
>>>
>>>The first branch that pops up and slides along the axle is going to hit
>>>one of the u-bolts and get directed right into that brake line dip and
>>>tear the line off. Or a rock that you might back into will crush it.
>>
>>Or rolling over a boulder and having the axle drop and scrape down it...
>>
>>>If the spring was there, the branch or rock would just slide along the
>>>spring.
>>
>>You're absolutely right.
>>
>>>If I was mine, I would run the line up over top.
>>
>>You have a very good point. I did it because, yes, that's how the
>>stocker was, and also because that was the shortest distance between the
>> the rear wheel port and the vent plug that I used as an anchor point
>>for the t-fitting. It's definitely vulnerable, and I can modify it, but
>>I still have to deal with where the brake port is; I wish THAT would
>>have been on top as well.
>>
>>Maybe I can fab up some armor just for that area...
>
>
> Those brake lines are set up strange... Any particular reason for the
> big brass junction at the back of the drum? I 'really' don't like that
> myself.
>
> This puts the line 'way' out in the open just waiting to hook on
> something in my mind, but then I am a bushwhacker, so I think trees and
> stumps. I have even had a tree branch jump up and take out my fan
> belt... First time off road in my 'new' CJ7 at midnight with only a bic
> lighter and one pair of vise grips along... That was fun... I learned
> 'real' fast to always have a tool kit with me...

Mike, I looked again, and there's absolutley no damn good reason they
put that junction block there for a SOA.

I took it off, took off the brake lines, drilled through the spring
perches, and bent up new lines that ride right on top of the axle.
>
> When I did my frame up build on my CJ7 I put all new lines in and tucked
> them in close to the backing plate and to the top back of the axle
> tube. There was no big brass junction on my setup.
>
> I also didn't put the coil armor on mine. The ones I replaced were all
> rotted where the coil was on, the bare places were still fine. Way too
> much salt on our roads and the coil holds it and wet mud in.

I only kept on about 2 feet on the re-do, the part on top of the diff.
>
> Do you really need that brass junction on the backing plate? If not,
> then a line right from the wheel cylinder, down tight on the backing
> plate to the top back of the axle tube and across and up over the spring
> to the splitter is what I would do. My t-fitting splitter is on top of
> my Dana 44, but the back side should still be ok, that is where my lines
> are. Then you only need a 'skid plate' for the splitter.... A couple
> muffler u-bolts with a bent out plate or 2" angle iron welded between
> them would work easy. Or a plate welded across the flat clamp part with
> the u-bolts pointing to the back and down a bit might clear it and
> protect it.

See above, it's well-protected now, Thanks for the heads up!
>
> Oh, by the by, where are you running the vent line from on the axle?
> Didn't see it in the photos.

It just was an extension to the old vent line.
>
> And if you are figuring on any water crossings, just be aware that a
> Jeep doesn't have a high water vent for the transmission, they just have
> a stupid button vent on the top side of the shifter tower. I pulled out
> my button vent and glued a piece of 5/16 gas line in the hole with JB
> weld to make a nipple for a tranny vent. I had to hammer it in, it was
> a tight fit, but used the glue anyway. I then ran the line up above the
> battery on the firewall where the t-case vent goes. I also ran my rear
> diff vent line inside the frame all the way up to the front and
> terminated it in the same place above the battery, same for my front
> diff vent, but it just ran along my engine to the firewall. I used
> transmission cooler line, bought a 25' roll.

>
> I also opened every plug and socket I could get my mitts on and put
> dielectric grease on all the seals/seats.
>
> I can run in standing water 42" deep (bottom of my headlights) with a
> bow wave over the hood and one very wet butt and have all my fluids
> check out clear after for water contamination. Just changed my rear
> diff fluid for the first time in 5 years and it came out clean gear
> oil. Well, too many metal shavings from a blown pinion bearing, but no
> water....

Seeing as how I like launching Sea-Doos at Pismo, I went out and got
some dielectric grease, and some liquid electrical tape. Also some vent
tubing. I'm ready to waterproof!
>
> Just a couple more thoughts for you....

Thanks!

Re: Pix are up!
 

Mike Romain wrote:

> Cal Wheeler wrote:
>
>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Looks nice....
>>>
>>>As others have commented, Oh to have a shop like that!
>>
>>Thanks, Mike. Lots of people are liking the shop!
>>
>>>I do have a couple comments for you on the build. Take them for what
>>>they are worth. ;-)
>>
>>;-)
>>
>>
>>>You bent the new brake lines the same as stock ones. Stock ones rely on
>>>the leaf spring for protection. Your leafs are on top now.
>>>
>>>The first branch that pops up and slides along the axle is going to hit
>>>one of the u-bolts and get directed right into that brake line dip and
>>>tear the line off. Or a rock that you might back into will crush it.
>>
>>Or rolling over a boulder and having the axle drop and scrape down it...
>>
>>>If the spring was there, the branch or rock would just slide along the
>>>spring.
>>
>>You're absolutely right.
>>
>>>If I was mine, I would run the line up over top.
>>
>>You have a very good point. I did it because, yes, that's how the
>>stocker was, and also because that was the shortest distance between the
>> the rear wheel port and the vent plug that I used as an anchor point
>>for the t-fitting. It's definitely vulnerable, and I can modify it, but
>>I still have to deal with where the brake port is; I wish THAT would
>>have been on top as well.
>>
>>Maybe I can fab up some armor just for that area...
>
>
> Those brake lines are set up strange... Any particular reason for the
> big brass junction at the back of the drum? I 'really' don't like that
> myself.
>
> This puts the line 'way' out in the open just waiting to hook on
> something in my mind, but then I am a bushwhacker, so I think trees and
> stumps. I have even had a tree branch jump up and take out my fan
> belt... First time off road in my 'new' CJ7 at midnight with only a bic
> lighter and one pair of vise grips along... That was fun... I learned
> 'real' fast to always have a tool kit with me...

Mike, I looked again, and there's absolutley no damn good reason they
put that junction block there for a SOA.

I took it off, took off the brake lines, drilled through the spring
perches, and bent up new lines that ride right on top of the axle.
>
> When I did my frame up build on my CJ7 I put all new lines in and tucked
> them in close to the backing plate and to the top back of the axle
> tube. There was no big brass junction on my setup.
>
> I also didn't put the coil armor on mine. The ones I replaced were all
> rotted where the coil was on, the bare places were still fine. Way too
> much salt on our roads and the coil holds it and wet mud in.

I only kept on about 2 feet on the re-do, the part on top of the diff.
>
> Do you really need that brass junction on the backing plate? If not,
> then a line right from the wheel cylinder, down tight on the backing
> plate to the top back of the axle tube and across and up over the spring
> to the splitter is what I would do. My t-fitting splitter is on top of
> my Dana 44, but the back side should still be ok, that is where my lines
> are. Then you only need a 'skid plate' for the splitter.... A couple
> muffler u-bolts with a bent out plate or 2" angle iron welded between
> them would work easy. Or a plate welded across the flat clamp part with
> the u-bolts pointing to the back and down a bit might clear it and
> protect it.

See above, it's well-protected now, Thanks for the heads up!
>
> Oh, by the by, where are you running the vent line from on the axle?
> Didn't see it in the photos.

It just was an extension to the old vent line.
>
> And if you are figuring on any water crossings, just be aware that a
> Jeep doesn't have a high water vent for the transmission, they just have
> a stupid button vent on the top side of the shifter tower. I pulled out
> my button vent and glued a piece of 5/16 gas line in the hole with JB
> weld to make a nipple for a tranny vent. I had to hammer it in, it was
> a tight fit, but used the glue anyway. I then ran the line up above the
> battery on the firewall where the t-case vent goes. I also ran my rear
> diff vent line inside the frame all the way up to the front and
> terminated it in the same place above the battery, same for my front
> diff vent, but it just ran along my engine to the firewall. I used
> transmission cooler line, bought a 25' roll.

>
> I also opened every plug and socket I could get my mitts on and put
> dielectric grease on all the seals/seats.
>
> I can run in standing water 42" deep (bottom of my headlights) with a
> bow wave over the hood and one very wet butt and have all my fluids
> check out clear after for water contamination. Just changed my rear
> diff fluid for the first time in 5 years and it came out clean gear
> oil. Well, too many metal shavings from a blown pinion bearing, but no
> water....

Seeing as how I like launching Sea-Doos at Pismo, I went out and got
some dielectric grease, and some liquid electrical tape. Also some vent
tubing. I'm ready to waterproof!
>
> Just a couple more thoughts for you....

Thanks!