Re: M.Romain -- High Speed Misfire(?)
 

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:406B55E4.51645D31@sympatico.ca...
> LOL and Yes, the check valve should only have vapors.
>
> The gas tank wants to be at atmospheric pressure.
>
> So the vent line is plugged with gas and the vent was disconnected for
> some reason.
>
That's easy. It rotted and fell off.



> Going swimming with an open suction when active vent line makes for a
> plugged with mud line in my mind....
>
It didn't swim that deep. That is deep enough to allow water to flow in
through the door openings. And, we all know that Real Jeeps don't have doors
;-).



> You should be able to blow through the line from the engine back.
>
> 'Usually' when I see the canister disconnected it is because it's system
> quit and the vehicle started acting like you describe. Running with the
> gas cap off is the test though.
>
> Could you have a pinhole leak on the suction side of the fuel pump?
>
> You have an electric pump now right?
>
Yeah. An external electric pump.

Are you suggesting that it could be sucking air through a hole in the line
from the pick up to the pump itself? I hadn't considered that. It fits the
profile though. As I was replacing the missing vac line to appease the Smog
Nazis, I noticed the high pressure fuel lines appeared to have cracks
developing. Now, I have to replace them too or risk an impromptu shut down
and possible fire. I pray the fire starts slowly so I can get away ...



> Meanwhile wires and coil can wear out. One fast test for wires is to
> get a spray bottle with water and mist the wires at night in the dark
> with the engine fully heated up. If you get a light show, you need new
> wires. If not, no problems there.
>
> To check the coil, pull over when it acts up and feel the thing. If it
> is more than comfortably hot in your hand suspect failure. Caution!
> Touch it easy first, it can be 'red' hot if failing.
>
Is it hot electrically? I know you were talking temps, but can it light my
ass with a shock that will throw me across the road, or slam my head into
the underside of the hood? It is 25kV, after all. Even at a miliamp, that
can be quite a hit.




>
> CRWLR wrote:
> >
> > I KNEW you were gonna say that!
> >
> > I took the cap off the other day, and still had the trouble. I can't say
> > that the trouble was better or worse, but it was still present. The
one-way
> > on the cap itself seems to be OK, I can suck air in through it, but I
can
> > not blow air out. One of the tests they do at the Smog Station is to
make
> > sure that fumes don't escape, and it passed that test. (that would be
the
> > blowing test that I performed.)
> >
> > The canister is a whole new arena for me. It does go swimming from time
to
> > time, and mud could have clogged any filter that lives inside. Having
said
> > that, I did not have the hose from the canister to the tank until I went
to
> > the Smog Station last week. The Smog Cop noticed that the hose was not
> > there, but the same Smog Cop has tested it twice before and the hose was
> > missing then too. At any rate, he made me put the hose on. While
attaching
> > the hose, I noticed that the Roll Over Check Valve and the check valve
that
> > is on the vapor hose going to the canister both look pretty cruddy. The
Roll
> > Over Check Valve has hoses on it that go directly to the gas tank, and
the
> > actually have gas in them, not vapors. I don't know how they are plumbed
> > relative to where the fuel pump is, or the fuel pick up. If the Roll
Over
> > Check Valve was stuck half open, or half closed, would it give me the
grief
> > that I am having?
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:406B3533.FEB197C2@sympatico.ca...
> > > You could be giving the textbook symptoms for a plugged up air filter
on
> > > the gas tank vent.
> > >
> > > It is a two dollar filter and lives on the bottom of the charcoal
> > > canister.
> > >
> > > I would check that first, just drive with the gas cap loose or off for
a
> > > while and see if the problem goes away.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > CRWLR wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have been suffering for quite some time with a high speed mis that
> > seems
> > > > to be heat related. That is, the mis seems to develop and grow more
> > severe
> > > > over time. The motor runs well at street speeds, and it continues to
run
> > > > well when I enter the freeway. After driving on the freeway for a
few
> > > > minutes, it starts to mis. If I pull over to investigate, I can't
find
> > any
> > > > fault, and when I reenter the freeway it runs fine again for a few
> > minutes
> > > > and begins to mis again. As I continue on my trip, the mis becomes
more
> > > > severe, and I think it even results in driveline lash and noise that
is
> > > > caused by the motor slowing or stopping, and the gears catching up,
then
> > the
> > > > motor begins running again and takes the slop in the gears back.
> > > >
> > > > I pulled the plugs a few months ago and the #3 or #4 was crusted
with a
> > > > white build up. I don't seem to have trouble keeping coolant in the
> > motor,
> > > > but the white crust is commonly thought to be coolant. I installed
the
> > Mopar
> > > > MPFI back in '99, and just smogged again for the third time since
> > > > installation. The Smog Nazis gave CRWLR a clean bill of health, they
at
> > > > least allow me to keep driving it so I assume the health is OK. I
have
> > not
> > > > pulled the plugs again, but that seems like something I should do.
> > > >
> > > > I have never replaced the plug wires, and I wonder if they can break
> > down
> > > > because of heat. I also wonder if the coil can be having trouble
keeping
> > up.
> > > >
> > > > I tend to discount the idea that the motor istelf is the problem,
but I
> > have
> > > > also been thinking that my compression is starting to be an issue -
my
> > Jeep
> > > > will roll down the driveway if parked in 3rd gear, and I have
> > experienced it
> > > > rolling backwards in 1st or 2nd if I manage to stall it on a very
steep
> > > > incline.
> > > >
> > > > I have never experienced the affects of floating valves, but if
valves
> > can
> > > > float, I think it would feel alot like what I am feeling now. Do
valve
> > > > springs grow weak and allow the valves to remain open? If I had a
burnt
> > > > valve, wouldn't I feel it all of the time? My thinking is that a bad
> > valve
> > > > would be apparent even at street and trail speeds, not just highway
> > speeds,
> > > > and the burnt valve would present a consistant symptom and I think
my
> > > > symptoms are variable.
> > > >
> > > > My symptoms seem to be consistant with a fuel delivery problem, but
I
> > > > replaced the fuel pump and the problems did not go away. Now that I
have
> > > > been using the new pump for about a year, the problem seems to be
> > growing
> > > > worse. I can't get my mind off of the fuel system, but I have a
> > relatively
> > > > new pump (not a rebuild) and filter. The only thing I haven't gotten
to
> > is
> > > > the fuel pick up inside the tank. My tank is so battered and bent
that
> > it
> > > > scares me to think of taking it down because it may not go back up.
(I
> > think
> > > > the holes only line up today because the bolts are there, when the
bolts
> > > > come out, the holes won't line up anymore.) Then, there is that
whole
> > issue
> > > > with getting dirt in my eyes from the sand that is going to fall
off. I
> > am
> > > > quite the sissy, you know.
> > > >
> > > > So, my main questions are,
> > > > Is there anything inside the tank that can give me grief that I MUST
be
> > > > looking at but choose to ignore?
> > > >
> > > > Do the plug wires present a risk of break down that can cause my
> > symptoms?
> > > >
> > > > Can the coil itself suffer from old age after 5 years and fail to
charge
> > > > fast enough?
> > > >
> > > > Is there something pounding on my forehead so hard that I can't see
the
> > > > hammer?

Re: M.Romain -- High Speed Misfire(?)
 

CRWLR wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:406B55E4.51645D31@sympatico.ca...
> > LOL and Yes, the check valve should only have vapors.
> >
> > The gas tank wants to be at atmospheric pressure.
> >
> > So the vent line is plugged with gas and the vent was disconnected for
> > some reason.
> >
> That's easy. It rotted and fell off.

Bad sign for the rest of them...


>
> > Going swimming with an open suction when active vent line makes for a
> > plugged with mud line in my mind....
> >
> It didn't swim that deep. That is deep enough to allow water to flow in
> through the door openings. And, we all know that Real Jeeps don't have doors
> ;-).

Splash factor...


>
> > You should be able to blow through the line from the engine back.
> >
> > 'Usually' when I see the canister disconnected it is because it's system
> > quit and the vehicle started acting like you describe. Running with the
> > gas cap off is the test though.
> >
> > Could you have a pinhole leak on the suction side of the fuel pump?
> >
> > You have an electric pump now right?
> >
> Yeah. An external electric pump.
>
> Are you suggesting that it could be sucking air through a hole in the line
> from the pick up to the pump itself? I hadn't considered that. It fits the
> profile though. As I was replacing the missing vac line to appease the Smog
> Nazis, I noticed the high pressure fuel lines appeared to have cracks
> developing. Now, I have to replace them too or risk an impromptu shut down
> and possible fire. I pray the fire starts slowly so I can get away ...

Yes, I am implying that for sure. Suction leaks are sneaky, they just
make a slight stain on the line, they don't piss out like pressure
lines. Usually they are right where the rusty line hits the rotted
'rubber' hose.

>
> > Meanwhile wires and coil can wear out. One fast test for wires is to
> > get a spray bottle with water and mist the wires at night in the dark
> > with the engine fully heated up. If you get a light show, you need new
> > wires. If not, no problems there.
> >
> > To check the coil, pull over when it acts up and feel the thing. If it
> > is more than comfortably hot in your hand suspect failure. Caution!
> > Touch it easy first, it can be 'red' hot if failing.
> >
> Is it hot electrically? I know you were talking temps, but can it light my
> ass with a shock that will throw me across the road, or slam my head into
> the underside of the hood? It is 25kV, after all. Even at a miliamp, that
> can be quite a hit.

If the coil wire is bad and leaking to ground on the coil case, touching
the coil can give you a lift, that's unusual but does happen, but I was
talking physically burning hot.

The water spray test in the dark will tell you if the coil wire leaks.

Mike


>
> >
> > CRWLR wrote:
> > >
> > > I KNEW you were gonna say that!
> > >
> > > I took the cap off the other day, and still had the trouble. I can't say
> > > that the trouble was better or worse, but it was still present. The
> one-way
> > > on the cap itself seems to be OK, I can suck air in through it, but I
> can
> > > not blow air out. One of the tests they do at the Smog Station is to
> make
> > > sure that fumes don't escape, and it passed that test. (that would be
> the
> > > blowing test that I performed.)
> > >
> > > The canister is a whole new arena for me. It does go swimming from time
> to
> > > time, and mud could have clogged any filter that lives inside. Having
> said
> > > that, I did not have the hose from the canister to the tank until I went
> to
> > > the Smog Station last week. The Smog Cop noticed that the hose was not
> > > there, but the same Smog Cop has tested it twice before and the hose was
> > > missing then too. At any rate, he made me put the hose on. While
> attaching
> > > the hose, I noticed that the Roll Over Check Valve and the check valve
> that
> > > is on the vapor hose going to the canister both look pretty cruddy. The
> Roll
> > > Over Check Valve has hoses on it that go directly to the gas tank, and
> the
> > > actually have gas in them, not vapors. I don't know how they are plumbed
> > > relative to where the fuel pump is, or the fuel pick up. If the Roll
> Over
> > > Check Valve was stuck half open, or half closed, would it give me the
> grief
> > > that I am having?
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:406B3533.FEB197C2@sympatico.ca...
> > > > You could be giving the textbook symptoms for a plugged up air filter
> on
> > > > the gas tank vent.
> > > >
> > > > It is a two dollar filter and lives on the bottom of the charcoal
> > > > canister.
> > > >
> > > > I would check that first, just drive with the gas cap loose or off for
> a
> > > > while and see if the problem goes away.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > CRWLR wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been suffering for quite some time with a high speed mis that
> > > seems
> > > > > to be heat related. That is, the mis seems to develop and grow more
> > > severe
> > > > > over time. The motor runs well at street speeds, and it continues to
> run
> > > > > well when I enter the freeway. After driving on the freeway for a
> few
> > > > > minutes, it starts to mis. If I pull over to investigate, I can't
> find
> > > any
> > > > > fault, and when I reenter the freeway it runs fine again for a few
> > > minutes
> > > > > and begins to mis again. As I continue on my trip, the mis becomes
> more
> > > > > severe, and I think it even results in driveline lash and noise that
> is
> > > > > caused by the motor slowing or stopping, and the gears catching up,
> then
> > > the
> > > > > motor begins running again and takes the slop in the gears back.
> > > > >
> > > > > I pulled the plugs a few months ago and the #3 or #4 was crusted
> with a
> > > > > white build up. I don't seem to have trouble keeping coolant in the
> > > motor,
> > > > > but the white crust is commonly thought to be coolant. I installed
> the
> > > Mopar
> > > > > MPFI back in '99, and just smogged again for the third time since
> > > > > installation. The Smog Nazis gave CRWLR a clean bill of health, they
> at
> > > > > least allow me to keep driving it so I assume the health is OK. I
> have
> > > not
> > > > > pulled the plugs again, but that seems like something I should do.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have never replaced the plug wires, and I wonder if they can break
> > > down
> > > > > because of heat. I also wonder if the coil can be having trouble
> keeping
> > > up.
> > > > >
> > > > > I tend to discount the idea that the motor istelf is the problem,
> but I
> > > have
> > > > > also been thinking that my compression is starting to be an issue -
> my
> > > Jeep
> > > > > will roll down the driveway if parked in 3rd gear, and I have
> > > experienced it
> > > > > rolling backwards in 1st or 2nd if I manage to stall it on a very
> steep
> > > > > incline.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have never experienced the affects of floating valves, but if
> valves
> > > can
> > > > > float, I think it would feel alot like what I am feeling now. Do
> valve
> > > > > springs grow weak and allow the valves to remain open? If I had a
> burnt
> > > > > valve, wouldn't I feel it all of the time? My thinking is that a bad
> > > valve
> > > > > would be apparent even at street and trail speeds, not just highway
> > > speeds,
> > > > > and the burnt valve would present a consistant symptom and I think
> my
> > > > > symptoms are variable.
> > > > >
> > > > > My symptoms seem to be consistant with a fuel delivery problem, but
> I
> > > > > replaced the fuel pump and the problems did not go away. Now that I
> have
> > > > > been using the new pump for about a year, the problem seems to be
> > > growing
> > > > > worse. I can't get my mind off of the fuel system, but I have a
> > > relatively
> > > > > new pump (not a rebuild) and filter. The only thing I haven't gotten
> to
> > > is
> > > > > the fuel pick up inside the tank. My tank is so battered and bent
> that
> > > it
> > > > > scares me to think of taking it down because it may not go back up.
> (I
> > > think
> > > > > the holes only line up today because the bolts are there, when the
> bolts
> > > > > come out, the holes won't line up anymore.) Then, there is that
> whole
> > > issue
> > > > > with getting dirt in my eyes from the sand that is going to fall
> off. I
> > > am
> > > > > quite the sissy, you know.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, my main questions are,
> > > > > Is there anything inside the tank that can give me grief that I MUST
> be
> > > > > looking at but choose to ignore?
> > > > >
> > > > > Do the plug wires present a risk of break down that can cause my
> > > symptoms?
> > > > >
> > > > > Can the coil itself suffer from old age after 5 years and fail to
> charge
> > > > > fast enough?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there something pounding on my forehead so hard that I can't see
> the
> > > > > hammer?

Re: M.Romain -- High Speed Misfire(?)
 

CRWLR wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:406B55E4.51645D31@sympatico.ca...
> > LOL and Yes, the check valve should only have vapors.
> >
> > The gas tank wants to be at atmospheric pressure.
> >
> > So the vent line is plugged with gas and the vent was disconnected for
> > some reason.
> >
> That's easy. It rotted and fell off.

Bad sign for the rest of them...


>
> > Going swimming with an open suction when active vent line makes for a
> > plugged with mud line in my mind....
> >
> It didn't swim that deep. That is deep enough to allow water to flow in
> through the door openings. And, we all know that Real Jeeps don't have doors
> ;-).

Splash factor...


>
> > You should be able to blow through the line from the engine back.
> >
> > 'Usually' when I see the canister disconnected it is because it's system
> > quit and the vehicle started acting like you describe. Running with the
> > gas cap off is the test though.
> >
> > Could you have a pinhole leak on the suction side of the fuel pump?
> >
> > You have an electric pump now right?
> >
> Yeah. An external electric pump.
>
> Are you suggesting that it could be sucking air through a hole in the line
> from the pick up to the pump itself? I hadn't considered that. It fits the
> profile though. As I was replacing the missing vac line to appease the Smog
> Nazis, I noticed the high pressure fuel lines appeared to have cracks
> developing. Now, I have to replace them too or risk an impromptu shut down
> and possible fire. I pray the fire starts slowly so I can get away ...

Yes, I am implying that for sure. Suction leaks are sneaky, they just
make a slight stain on the line, they don't piss out like pressure
lines. Usually they are right where the rusty line hits the rotted
'rubber' hose.

>
> > Meanwhile wires and coil can wear out. One fast test for wires is to
> > get a spray bottle with water and mist the wires at night in the dark
> > with the engine fully heated up. If you get a light show, you need new
> > wires. If not, no problems there.
> >
> > To check the coil, pull over when it acts up and feel the thing. If it
> > is more than comfortably hot in your hand suspect failure. Caution!
> > Touch it easy first, it can be 'red' hot if failing.
> >
> Is it hot electrically? I know you were talking temps, but can it light my
> ass with a shock that will throw me across the road, or slam my head into
> the underside of the hood? It is 25kV, after all. Even at a miliamp, that
> can be quite a hit.

If the coil wire is bad and leaking to ground on the coil case, touching
the coil can give you a lift, that's unusual but does happen, but I was
talking physically burning hot.

The water spray test in the dark will tell you if the coil wire leaks.

Mike


>
> >
> > CRWLR wrote:
> > >
> > > I KNEW you were gonna say that!
> > >
> > > I took the cap off the other day, and still had the trouble. I can't say
> > > that the trouble was better or worse, but it was still present. The
> one-way
> > > on the cap itself seems to be OK, I can suck air in through it, but I
> can
> > > not blow air out. One of the tests they do at the Smog Station is to
> make
> > > sure that fumes don't escape, and it passed that test. (that would be
> the
> > > blowing test that I performed.)
> > >
> > > The canister is a whole new arena for me. It does go swimming from time
> to
> > > time, and mud could have clogged any filter that lives inside. Having
> said
> > > that, I did not have the hose from the canister to the tank until I went
> to
> > > the Smog Station last week. The Smog Cop noticed that the hose was not
> > > there, but the same Smog Cop has tested it twice before and the hose was
> > > missing then too. At any rate, he made me put the hose on. While
> attaching
> > > the hose, I noticed that the Roll Over Check Valve and the check valve
> that
> > > is on the vapor hose going to the canister both look pretty cruddy. The
> Roll
> > > Over Check Valve has hoses on it that go directly to the gas tank, and
> the
> > > actually have gas in them, not vapors. I don't know how they are plumbed
> > > relative to where the fuel pump is, or the fuel pick up. If the Roll
> Over
> > > Check Valve was stuck half open, or half closed, would it give me the
> grief
> > > that I am having?
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:406B3533.FEB197C2@sympatico.ca...
> > > > You could be giving the textbook symptoms for a plugged up air filter
> on
> > > > the gas tank vent.
> > > >
> > > > It is a two dollar filter and lives on the bottom of the charcoal
> > > > canister.
> > > >
> > > > I would check that first, just drive with the gas cap loose or off for
> a
> > > > while and see if the problem goes away.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > CRWLR wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been suffering for quite some time with a high speed mis that
> > > seems
> > > > > to be heat related. That is, the mis seems to develop and grow more
> > > severe
> > > > > over time. The motor runs well at street speeds, and it continues to
> run
> > > > > well when I enter the freeway. After driving on the freeway for a
> few
> > > > > minutes, it starts to mis. If I pull over to investigate, I can't
> find
> > > any
> > > > > fault, and when I reenter the freeway it runs fine again for a few
> > > minutes
> > > > > and begins to mis again. As I continue on my trip, the mis becomes
> more
> > > > > severe, and I think it even results in driveline lash and noise that
> is
> > > > > caused by the motor slowing or stopping, and the gears catching up,
> then
> > > the
> > > > > motor begins running again and takes the slop in the gears back.
> > > > >
> > > > > I pulled the plugs a few months ago and the #3 or #4 was crusted
> with a
> > > > > white build up. I don't seem to have trouble keeping coolant in the
> > > motor,
> > > > > but the white crust is commonly thought to be coolant. I installed
> the
> > > Mopar
> > > > > MPFI back in '99, and just smogged again for the third time since
> > > > > installation. The Smog Nazis gave CRWLR a clean bill of health, they
> at
> > > > > least allow me to keep driving it so I assume the health is OK. I
> have
> > > not
> > > > > pulled the plugs again, but that seems like something I should do.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have never replaced the plug wires, and I wonder if they can break
> > > down
> > > > > because of heat. I also wonder if the coil can be having trouble
> keeping
> > > up.
> > > > >
> > > > > I tend to discount the idea that the motor istelf is the problem,
> but I
> > > have
> > > > > also been thinking that my compression is starting to be an issue -
> my
> > > Jeep
> > > > > will roll down the driveway if parked in 3rd gear, and I have
> > > experienced it
> > > > > rolling backwards in 1st or 2nd if I manage to stall it on a very
> steep
> > > > > incline.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have never experienced the affects of floating valves, but if
> valves
> > > can
> > > > > float, I think it would feel alot like what I am feeling now. Do
> valve
> > > > > springs grow weak and allow the valves to remain open? If I had a
> burnt
> > > > > valve, wouldn't I feel it all of the time? My thinking is that a bad
> > > valve
> > > > > would be apparent even at street and trail speeds, not just highway
> > > speeds,
> > > > > and the burnt valve would present a consistant symptom and I think
> my
> > > > > symptoms are variable.
> > > > >
> > > > > My symptoms seem to be consistant with a fuel delivery problem, but
> I
> > > > > replaced the fuel pump and the problems did not go away. Now that I
> have
> > > > > been using the new pump for about a year, the problem seems to be
> > > growing
> > > > > worse. I can't get my mind off of the fuel system, but I have a
> > > relatively
> > > > > new pump (not a rebuild) and filter. The only thing I haven't gotten
> to
> > > is
> > > > > the fuel pick up inside the tank. My tank is so battered and bent
> that
> > > it
> > > > > scares me to think of taking it down because it may not go back up.
> (I
> > > think
> > > > > the holes only line up today because the bolts are there, when the
> bolts
> > > > > come out, the holes won't line up anymore.) Then, there is that
> whole
> > > issue
> > > > > with getting dirt in my eyes from the sand that is going to fall
> off. I
> > > am
> > > > > quite the sissy, you know.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, my main questions are,
> > > > > Is there anything inside the tank that can give me grief that I MUST
> be
> > > > > looking at but choose to ignore?
> > > > >
> > > > > Do the plug wires present a risk of break down that can cause my
> > > symptoms?
> > > > >
> > > > > Can the coil itself suffer from old age after 5 years and fail to
> charge
> > > > > fast enough?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there something pounding on my forehead so hard that I can't see
> the
> > > > > hammer?

Re: M.Romain -- High Speed Misfire(?)
 

CRWLR wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:406B55E4.51645D31@sympatico.ca...
> > LOL and Yes, the check valve should only have vapors.
> >
> > The gas tank wants to be at atmospheric pressure.
> >
> > So the vent line is plugged with gas and the vent was disconnected for
> > some reason.
> >
> That's easy. It rotted and fell off.

Bad sign for the rest of them...


>
> > Going swimming with an open suction when active vent line makes for a
> > plugged with mud line in my mind....
> >
> It didn't swim that deep. That is deep enough to allow water to flow in
> through the door openings. And, we all know that Real Jeeps don't have doors
> ;-).

Splash factor...


>
> > You should be able to blow through the line from the engine back.
> >
> > 'Usually' when I see the canister disconnected it is because it's system
> > quit and the vehicle started acting like you describe. Running with the
> > gas cap off is the test though.
> >
> > Could you have a pinhole leak on the suction side of the fuel pump?
> >
> > You have an electric pump now right?
> >
> Yeah. An external electric pump.
>
> Are you suggesting that it could be sucking air through a hole in the line
> from the pick up to the pump itself? I hadn't considered that. It fits the
> profile though. As I was replacing the missing vac line to appease the Smog
> Nazis, I noticed the high pressure fuel lines appeared to have cracks
> developing. Now, I have to replace them too or risk an impromptu shut down
> and possible fire. I pray the fire starts slowly so I can get away ...

Yes, I am implying that for sure. Suction leaks are sneaky, they just
make a slight stain on the line, they don't piss out like pressure
lines. Usually they are right where the rusty line hits the rotted
'rubber' hose.

>
> > Meanwhile wires and coil can wear out. One fast test for wires is to
> > get a spray bottle with water and mist the wires at night in the dark
> > with the engine fully heated up. If you get a light show, you need new
> > wires. If not, no problems there.
> >
> > To check the coil, pull over when it acts up and feel the thing. If it
> > is more than comfortably hot in your hand suspect failure. Caution!
> > Touch it easy first, it can be 'red' hot if failing.
> >
> Is it hot electrically? I know you were talking temps, but can it light my
> ass with a shock that will throw me across the road, or slam my head into
> the underside of the hood? It is 25kV, after all. Even at a miliamp, that
> can be quite a hit.

If the coil wire is bad and leaking to ground on the coil case, touching
the coil can give you a lift, that's unusual but does happen, but I was
talking physically burning hot.

The water spray test in the dark will tell you if the coil wire leaks.

Mike


>
> >
> > CRWLR wrote:
> > >
> > > I KNEW you were gonna say that!
> > >
> > > I took the cap off the other day, and still had the trouble. I can't say
> > > that the trouble was better or worse, but it was still present. The
> one-way
> > > on the cap itself seems to be OK, I can suck air in through it, but I
> can
> > > not blow air out. One of the tests they do at the Smog Station is to
> make
> > > sure that fumes don't escape, and it passed that test. (that would be
> the
> > > blowing test that I performed.)
> > >
> > > The canister is a whole new arena for me. It does go swimming from time
> to
> > > time, and mud could have clogged any filter that lives inside. Having
> said
> > > that, I did not have the hose from the canister to the tank until I went
> to
> > > the Smog Station last week. The Smog Cop noticed that the hose was not
> > > there, but the same Smog Cop has tested it twice before and the hose was
> > > missing then too. At any rate, he made me put the hose on. While
> attaching
> > > the hose, I noticed that the Roll Over Check Valve and the check valve
> that
> > > is on the vapor hose going to the canister both look pretty cruddy. The
> Roll
> > > Over Check Valve has hoses on it that go directly to the gas tank, and
> the
> > > actually have gas in them, not vapors. I don't know how they are plumbed
> > > relative to where the fuel pump is, or the fuel pick up. If the Roll
> Over
> > > Check Valve was stuck half open, or half closed, would it give me the
> grief
> > > that I am having?
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:406B3533.FEB197C2@sympatico.ca...
> > > > You could be giving the textbook symptoms for a plugged up air filter
> on
> > > > the gas tank vent.
> > > >
> > > > It is a two dollar filter and lives on the bottom of the charcoal
> > > > canister.
> > > >
> > > > I would check that first, just drive with the gas cap loose or off for
> a
> > > > while and see if the problem goes away.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > CRWLR wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been suffering for quite some time with a high speed mis that
> > > seems
> > > > > to be heat related. That is, the mis seems to develop and grow more
> > > severe
> > > > > over time. The motor runs well at street speeds, and it continues to
> run
> > > > > well when I enter the freeway. After driving on the freeway for a
> few
> > > > > minutes, it starts to mis. If I pull over to investigate, I can't
> find
> > > any
> > > > > fault, and when I reenter the freeway it runs fine again for a few
> > > minutes
> > > > > and begins to mis again. As I continue on my trip, the mis becomes
> more
> > > > > severe, and I think it even results in driveline lash and noise that
> is
> > > > > caused by the motor slowing or stopping, and the gears catching up,
> then
> > > the
> > > > > motor begins running again and takes the slop in the gears back.
> > > > >
> > > > > I pulled the plugs a few months ago and the #3 or #4 was crusted
> with a
> > > > > white build up. I don't seem to have trouble keeping coolant in the
> > > motor,
> > > > > but the white crust is commonly thought to be coolant. I installed
> the
> > > Mopar
> > > > > MPFI back in '99, and just smogged again for the third time since
> > > > > installation. The Smog Nazis gave CRWLR a clean bill of health, they
> at
> > > > > least allow me to keep driving it so I assume the health is OK. I
> have
> > > not
> > > > > pulled the plugs again, but that seems like something I should do.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have never replaced the plug wires, and I wonder if they can break
> > > down
> > > > > because of heat. I also wonder if the coil can be having trouble
> keeping
> > > up.
> > > > >
> > > > > I tend to discount the idea that the motor istelf is the problem,
> but I
> > > have
> > > > > also been thinking that my compression is starting to be an issue -
> my
> > > Jeep
> > > > > will roll down the driveway if parked in 3rd gear, and I have
> > > experienced it
> > > > > rolling backwards in 1st or 2nd if I manage to stall it on a very
> steep
> > > > > incline.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have never experienced the affects of floating valves, but if
> valves
> > > can
> > > > > float, I think it would feel alot like what I am feeling now. Do
> valve
> > > > > springs grow weak and allow the valves to remain open? If I had a
> burnt
> > > > > valve, wouldn't I feel it all of the time? My thinking is that a bad
> > > valve
> > > > > would be apparent even at street and trail speeds, not just highway
> > > speeds,
> > > > > and the burnt valve would present a consistant symptom and I think
> my
> > > > > symptoms are variable.
> > > > >
> > > > > My symptoms seem to be consistant with a fuel delivery problem, but
> I
> > > > > replaced the fuel pump and the problems did not go away. Now that I
> have
> > > > > been using the new pump for about a year, the problem seems to be
> > > growing
> > > > > worse. I can't get my mind off of the fuel system, but I have a
> > > relatively
> > > > > new pump (not a rebuild) and filter. The only thing I haven't gotten
> to
> > > is
> > > > > the fuel pick up inside the tank. My tank is so battered and bent
> that
> > > it
> > > > > scares me to think of taking it down because it may not go back up.
> (I
> > > think
> > > > > the holes only line up today because the bolts are there, when the
> bolts
> > > > > come out, the holes won't line up anymore.) Then, there is that
> whole
> > > issue
> > > > > with getting dirt in my eyes from the sand that is going to fall
> off. I
> > > am
> > > > > quite the sissy, you know.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, my main questions are,
> > > > > Is there anything inside the tank that can give me grief that I MUST
> be
> > > > > looking at but choose to ignore?
> > > > >
> > > > > Do the plug wires present a risk of break down that can cause my
> > > symptoms?
> > > > >
> > > > > Can the coil itself suffer from old age after 5 years and fail to
> charge
> > > > > fast enough?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there something pounding on my forehead so hard that I can't see
> the
> > > > > hammer?

Re: M.Romain -- High Speed Misfire(?)
 

CRWLR wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:406B55E4.51645D31@sympatico.ca...
> > LOL and Yes, the check valve should only have vapors.
> >
> > The gas tank wants to be at atmospheric pressure.
> >
> > So the vent line is plugged with gas and the vent was disconnected for
> > some reason.
> >
> That's easy. It rotted and fell off.

Bad sign for the rest of them...


>
> > Going swimming with an open suction when active vent line makes for a
> > plugged with mud line in my mind....
> >
> It didn't swim that deep. That is deep enough to allow water to flow in
> through the door openings. And, we all know that Real Jeeps don't have doors
> ;-).

Splash factor...


>
> > You should be able to blow through the line from the engine back.
> >
> > 'Usually' when I see the canister disconnected it is because it's system
> > quit and the vehicle started acting like you describe. Running with the
> > gas cap off is the test though.
> >
> > Could you have a pinhole leak on the suction side of the fuel pump?
> >
> > You have an electric pump now right?
> >
> Yeah. An external electric pump.
>
> Are you suggesting that it could be sucking air through a hole in the line
> from the pick up to the pump itself? I hadn't considered that. It fits the
> profile though. As I was replacing the missing vac line to appease the Smog
> Nazis, I noticed the high pressure fuel lines appeared to have cracks
> developing. Now, I have to replace them too or risk an impromptu shut down
> and possible fire. I pray the fire starts slowly so I can get away ...

Yes, I am implying that for sure. Suction leaks are sneaky, they just
make a slight stain on the line, they don't piss out like pressure
lines. Usually they are right where the rusty line hits the rotted
'rubber' hose.

>
> > Meanwhile wires and coil can wear out. One fast test for wires is to
> > get a spray bottle with water and mist the wires at night in the dark
> > with the engine fully heated up. If you get a light show, you need new
> > wires. If not, no problems there.
> >
> > To check the coil, pull over when it acts up and feel the thing. If it
> > is more than comfortably hot in your hand suspect failure. Caution!
> > Touch it easy first, it can be 'red' hot if failing.
> >
> Is it hot electrically? I know you were talking temps, but can it light my
> ass with a shock that will throw me across the road, or slam my head into
> the underside of the hood? It is 25kV, after all. Even at a miliamp, that
> can be quite a hit.

If the coil wire is bad and leaking to ground on the coil case, touching
the coil can give you a lift, that's unusual but does happen, but I was
talking physically burning hot.

The water spray test in the dark will tell you if the coil wire leaks.

Mike


>
> >
> > CRWLR wrote:
> > >
> > > I KNEW you were gonna say that!
> > >
> > > I took the cap off the other day, and still had the trouble. I can't say
> > > that the trouble was better or worse, but it was still present. The
> one-way
> > > on the cap itself seems to be OK, I can suck air in through it, but I
> can
> > > not blow air out. One of the tests they do at the Smog Station is to
> make
> > > sure that fumes don't escape, and it passed that test. (that would be
> the
> > > blowing test that I performed.)
> > >
> > > The canister is a whole new arena for me. It does go swimming from time
> to
> > > time, and mud could have clogged any filter that lives inside. Having
> said
> > > that, I did not have the hose from the canister to the tank until I went
> to
> > > the Smog Station last week. The Smog Cop noticed that the hose was not
> > > there, but the same Smog Cop has tested it twice before and the hose was
> > > missing then too. At any rate, he made me put the hose on. While
> attaching
> > > the hose, I noticed that the Roll Over Check Valve and the check valve
> that
> > > is on the vapor hose going to the canister both look pretty cruddy. The
> Roll
> > > Over Check Valve has hoses on it that go directly to the gas tank, and
> the
> > > actually have gas in them, not vapors. I don't know how they are plumbed
> > > relative to where the fuel pump is, or the fuel pick up. If the Roll
> Over
> > > Check Valve was stuck half open, or half closed, would it give me the
> grief
> > > that I am having?
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:406B3533.FEB197C2@sympatico.ca...
> > > > You could be giving the textbook symptoms for a plugged up air filter
> on
> > > > the gas tank vent.
> > > >
> > > > It is a two dollar filter and lives on the bottom of the charcoal
> > > > canister.
> > > >
> > > > I would check that first, just drive with the gas cap loose or off for
> a
> > > > while and see if the problem goes away.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > CRWLR wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been suffering for quite some time with a high speed mis that
> > > seems
> > > > > to be heat related. That is, the mis seems to develop and grow more
> > > severe
> > > > > over time. The motor runs well at street speeds, and it continues to
> run
> > > > > well when I enter the freeway. After driving on the freeway for a
> few
> > > > > minutes, it starts to mis. If I pull over to investigate, I can't
> find
> > > any
> > > > > fault, and when I reenter the freeway it runs fine again for a few
> > > minutes
> > > > > and begins to mis again. As I continue on my trip, the mis becomes
> more
> > > > > severe, and I think it even results in driveline lash and noise that
> is
> > > > > caused by the motor slowing or stopping, and the gears catching up,
> then
> > > the
> > > > > motor begins running again and takes the slop in the gears back.
> > > > >
> > > > > I pulled the plugs a few months ago and the #3 or #4 was crusted
> with a
> > > > > white build up. I don't seem to have trouble keeping coolant in the
> > > motor,
> > > > > but the white crust is commonly thought to be coolant. I installed
> the
> > > Mopar
> > > > > MPFI back in '99, and just smogged again for the third time since
> > > > > installation. The Smog Nazis gave CRWLR a clean bill of health, they
> at
> > > > > least allow me to keep driving it so I assume the health is OK. I
> have
> > > not
> > > > > pulled the plugs again, but that seems like something I should do.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have never replaced the plug wires, and I wonder if they can break
> > > down
> > > > > because of heat. I also wonder if the coil can be having trouble
> keeping
> > > up.
> > > > >
> > > > > I tend to discount the idea that the motor istelf is the problem,
> but I
> > > have
> > > > > also been thinking that my compression is starting to be an issue -
> my
> > > Jeep
> > > > > will roll down the driveway if parked in 3rd gear, and I have
> > > experienced it
> > > > > rolling backwards in 1st or 2nd if I manage to stall it on a very
> steep
> > > > > incline.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have never experienced the affects of floating valves, but if
> valves
> > > can
> > > > > float, I think it would feel alot like what I am feeling now. Do
> valve
> > > > > springs grow weak and allow the valves to remain open? If I had a
> burnt
> > > > > valve, wouldn't I feel it all of the time? My thinking is that a bad
> > > valve
> > > > > would be apparent even at street and trail speeds, not just highway
> > > speeds,
> > > > > and the burnt valve would present a consistant symptom and I think
> my
> > > > > symptoms are variable.
> > > > >
> > > > > My symptoms seem to be consistant with a fuel delivery problem, but
> I
> > > > > replaced the fuel pump and the problems did not go away. Now that I
> have
> > > > > been using the new pump for about a year, the problem seems to be
> > > growing
> > > > > worse. I can't get my mind off of the fuel system, but I have a
> > > relatively
> > > > > new pump (not a rebuild) and filter. The only thing I haven't gotten
> to
> > > is
> > > > > the fuel pick up inside the tank. My tank is so battered and bent
> that
> > > it
> > > > > scares me to think of taking it down because it may not go back up.
> (I
> > > think
> > > > > the holes only line up today because the bolts are there, when the
> bolts
> > > > > come out, the holes won't line up anymore.) Then, there is that
> whole
> > > issue
> > > > > with getting dirt in my eyes from the sand that is going to fall
> off. I
> > > am
> > > > > quite the sissy, you know.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, my main questions are,
> > > > > Is there anything inside the tank that can give me grief that I MUST
> be
> > > > > looking at but choose to ignore?
> > > > >
> > > > > Do the plug wires present a risk of break down that can cause my
> > > symptoms?
> > > > >
> > > > > Can the coil itself suffer from old age after 5 years and fail to
> charge
> > > > > fast enough?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there something pounding on my forehead so hard that I can't see
> the
> > > > > hammer?