Re: OT - 4x4 Guidebook for Montana?
 

John,

I've been driving all over the state with the wife & kids, but haven't
personally explored much yet off the main roads south of the Elkhorn
mountains (Basin, Butte area). Any place in Montana is nice and has plenty
of short hikes & sight seeing practically everywhere. Even without an
agenda, a person could just come out here and "play it by ear" and have a
great time. We live in the Helena area. If you make it up this way next
summer let me know if you want to hook up for some off-roading, camping &
hiking. There are some wonderful day/weekend hikes right around here (and
anywhere else in the state). Gates of the Mountains & the Beartooth
wilderness is just a few miles north of here. There is a medium to
medium/severe jeep trail just south of here near Jefferson City that ends at
a beautiful high mountain lake with good hiking/camping/fishing. There's
plenty to see & do over near Deer Lodge, right along I-90 on your way home.
The area all around Dillon is great. You might want to check out the Big
Hole area over near Wisdom too.

I'd consider traveling no later than late June/early July. The last couple
of summers have been extremely hot & dry by mid July & August, and we've had
problems with forest fires.

Terry.



"John Davies" <johnedavies@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:j5h2pv8ua4c6j0k0dov4ol0t2jkgur9t5n@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 02:29:13 GMT, Lon Stowell
> <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote:
>
> > Depends on whether your family wants to fish or hunt for
> > gold and old gold mines [or sapphires] and whether you
> > want dirt roads in the greener western Pioneer mountains
> > or the drier eastern slopes of same.
>
> Neither fishing or hunting - mainly short hikes, photography, and
> sight seeing. We have never stopped in the area, though we have bombed
> across on I-90 and once came up from Yellowstone through the Gallatin
> Valley and found the country to be gorgeous. I have 8 and 11 year old
> kids, and we usually take along mountain bikes, but because of the
> (hopefully) rough roads I expect to encounter, I think we will leave
> them home for this trip. (They get really shaken up on nasty roads.)
> So activities need to be relatively stress-free and kid-oriented. We
> will probably take no more that 10 days for the entire trip.
>
> Forest roads, ruts and small washouts are fine, but my trailer isn't
> set up yet for really severe off-roading: This is my rig:
> http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/Horses-01.jpg
>
> From what I have read so far, the extreme southwest sounds great. I
> don't think I want to get down too close to the Yellowstone crowds -
> we will be there in high summer (July maybe?), though I would kind of
> like to go on the Beartooth Highway... I was thinking of going
> straight down to the extreme SW corner and exploring the Big Sheep
> Creek area, then working back north toward I-90 and home. Any areas as
> far north as I-90 and as far east as I-15 are on my wish list. Maybe a
> little bit north of I-90.
>
> Rockhounding would be great - my wife is getting really interested in
> that. She has a tumbler, rock pick and other hand tools. If you can
> give me some really remote locations with great rocks she will
> tolerate _much_ more bouncing around to get there.... ;) Are there
> any placer gold areas, or is this strictly deep mining country? We
> might like to try a little gold panning.
> >
> > Staying in the foothill area has more old forest service
> > and timber trails than in the mountains themselves due
> > to terrain restricting the ability to run more than one
> > route thru...
>
> That was my idea - staying in primitive or State Park campgrounds and
> maybe making a few runs through passes, but mostly staying in the
> foothills and towns.
>
> > If you come into Missoula on 12, you can drop south down
> > thru Hamilton, then cruise down 93 until you see interesting
> > turnoffs. If you go too far, you'll be in Lost Trail Pass
> > which is georgeous but not exactly offroad material.
> >
> > There's a really nice loop eastward thru the bitterroot
> > forest that takes off east just south of Hamilton a few
> > miles, then meets another road that loops back to 93.
> > Fairly easy to navigate in a 4x4 as long as it is late
> > enough in the year to avoid the spring snows. Or cut
> > east to Philipsburg and hunt your own cornflower sapphires.
>
> How late do the passes stay snowed in? Is July safe?
>
> > Or you can go further south on 93 and cut over toward
> > Dillon, but drop off into Bannack, the old state capital
> > and ghost town. From there, you could head for Polaris,
> > Coolidge, Elkhorn old mines with good trails. Dillon
> > itself might be a good base of travel...
>
> Sounds good - I want to see Bannock and Garnet ghost towns, and maybe
> Elkhorn if we decide to get up toward Helena.
>
> > Check this and similar sites out:
> > http://www.bitterroot.net/usdafs/camp.HTML
> >
> > PS. Presumably you would have 100% bear proof gear...and
> > know the difference between a black and a grizzly.
>
> Well, that's a big concern - we are tent campers. Are bears a problem
> throughout the area, or just in primitive areas? We know about the
> "tame" bears that stroll through the Yellowstone campgrounds - does
> this happen throughout the MT mountains? Even in developed State Park
> cg's? Maybe we will have to stay in motels..... It would leave more
> room for rocks in the trailer.
> http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/LX450-02.jpg
>
> Thanks very much for the informative post and any more info..
>
> John Davies
> Spokane WA USA

Re: OT - 4x4 Guidebook for Montana?
 

John,

I've been driving all over the state with the wife & kids, but haven't
personally explored much yet off the main roads south of the Elkhorn
mountains (Basin, Butte area). Any place in Montana is nice and has plenty
of short hikes & sight seeing practically everywhere. Even without an
agenda, a person could just come out here and "play it by ear" and have a
great time. We live in the Helena area. If you make it up this way next
summer let me know if you want to hook up for some off-roading, camping &
hiking. There are some wonderful day/weekend hikes right around here (and
anywhere else in the state). Gates of the Mountains & the Beartooth
wilderness is just a few miles north of here. There is a medium to
medium/severe jeep trail just south of here near Jefferson City that ends at
a beautiful high mountain lake with good hiking/camping/fishing. There's
plenty to see & do over near Deer Lodge, right along I-90 on your way home.
The area all around Dillon is great. You might want to check out the Big
Hole area over near Wisdom too.

I'd consider traveling no later than late June/early July. The last couple
of summers have been extremely hot & dry by mid July & August, and we've had
problems with forest fires.

Terry.



"John Davies" <johnedavies@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:j5h2pv8ua4c6j0k0dov4ol0t2jkgur9t5n@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 02:29:13 GMT, Lon Stowell
> <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote:
>
> > Depends on whether your family wants to fish or hunt for
> > gold and old gold mines [or sapphires] and whether you
> > want dirt roads in the greener western Pioneer mountains
> > or the drier eastern slopes of same.
>
> Neither fishing or hunting - mainly short hikes, photography, and
> sight seeing. We have never stopped in the area, though we have bombed
> across on I-90 and once came up from Yellowstone through the Gallatin
> Valley and found the country to be gorgeous. I have 8 and 11 year old
> kids, and we usually take along mountain bikes, but because of the
> (hopefully) rough roads I expect to encounter, I think we will leave
> them home for this trip. (They get really shaken up on nasty roads.)
> So activities need to be relatively stress-free and kid-oriented. We
> will probably take no more that 10 days for the entire trip.
>
> Forest roads, ruts and small washouts are fine, but my trailer isn't
> set up yet for really severe off-roading: This is my rig:
> http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/Horses-01.jpg
>
> From what I have read so far, the extreme southwest sounds great. I
> don't think I want to get down too close to the Yellowstone crowds -
> we will be there in high summer (July maybe?), though I would kind of
> like to go on the Beartooth Highway... I was thinking of going
> straight down to the extreme SW corner and exploring the Big Sheep
> Creek area, then working back north toward I-90 and home. Any areas as
> far north as I-90 and as far east as I-15 are on my wish list. Maybe a
> little bit north of I-90.
>
> Rockhounding would be great - my wife is getting really interested in
> that. She has a tumbler, rock pick and other hand tools. If you can
> give me some really remote locations with great rocks she will
> tolerate _much_ more bouncing around to get there.... ;) Are there
> any placer gold areas, or is this strictly deep mining country? We
> might like to try a little gold panning.
> >
> > Staying in the foothill area has more old forest service
> > and timber trails than in the mountains themselves due
> > to terrain restricting the ability to run more than one
> > route thru...
>
> That was my idea - staying in primitive or State Park campgrounds and
> maybe making a few runs through passes, but mostly staying in the
> foothills and towns.
>
> > If you come into Missoula on 12, you can drop south down
> > thru Hamilton, then cruise down 93 until you see interesting
> > turnoffs. If you go too far, you'll be in Lost Trail Pass
> > which is georgeous but not exactly offroad material.
> >
> > There's a really nice loop eastward thru the bitterroot
> > forest that takes off east just south of Hamilton a few
> > miles, then meets another road that loops back to 93.
> > Fairly easy to navigate in a 4x4 as long as it is late
> > enough in the year to avoid the spring snows. Or cut
> > east to Philipsburg and hunt your own cornflower sapphires.
>
> How late do the passes stay snowed in? Is July safe?
>
> > Or you can go further south on 93 and cut over toward
> > Dillon, but drop off into Bannack, the old state capital
> > and ghost town. From there, you could head for Polaris,
> > Coolidge, Elkhorn old mines with good trails. Dillon
> > itself might be a good base of travel...
>
> Sounds good - I want to see Bannock and Garnet ghost towns, and maybe
> Elkhorn if we decide to get up toward Helena.
>
> > Check this and similar sites out:
> > http://www.bitterroot.net/usdafs/camp.HTML
> >
> > PS. Presumably you would have 100% bear proof gear...and
> > know the difference between a black and a grizzly.
>
> Well, that's a big concern - we are tent campers. Are bears a problem
> throughout the area, or just in primitive areas? We know about the
> "tame" bears that stroll through the Yellowstone campgrounds - does
> this happen throughout the MT mountains? Even in developed State Park
> cg's? Maybe we will have to stay in motels..... It would leave more
> room for rocks in the trailer.
> http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/LX450-02.jpg
>
> Thanks very much for the informative post and any more info..
>
> John Davies
> Spokane WA USA

Re: OT - 4x4 Guidebook for Montana?
 

John,

I've been driving all over the state with the wife & kids, but haven't
personally explored much yet off the main roads south of the Elkhorn
mountains (Basin, Butte area). Any place in Montana is nice and has plenty
of short hikes & sight seeing practically everywhere. Even without an
agenda, a person could just come out here and "play it by ear" and have a
great time. We live in the Helena area. If you make it up this way next
summer let me know if you want to hook up for some off-roading, camping &
hiking. There are some wonderful day/weekend hikes right around here (and
anywhere else in the state). Gates of the Mountains & the Beartooth
wilderness is just a few miles north of here. There is a medium to
medium/severe jeep trail just south of here near Jefferson City that ends at
a beautiful high mountain lake with good hiking/camping/fishing. There's
plenty to see & do over near Deer Lodge, right along I-90 on your way home.
The area all around Dillon is great. You might want to check out the Big
Hole area over near Wisdom too.

I'd consider traveling no later than late June/early July. The last couple
of summers have been extremely hot & dry by mid July & August, and we've had
problems with forest fires.

Terry.



"John Davies" <johnedavies@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:j5h2pv8ua4c6j0k0dov4ol0t2jkgur9t5n@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 02:29:13 GMT, Lon Stowell
> <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote:
>
> > Depends on whether your family wants to fish or hunt for
> > gold and old gold mines [or sapphires] and whether you
> > want dirt roads in the greener western Pioneer mountains
> > or the drier eastern slopes of same.
>
> Neither fishing or hunting - mainly short hikes, photography, and
> sight seeing. We have never stopped in the area, though we have bombed
> across on I-90 and once came up from Yellowstone through the Gallatin
> Valley and found the country to be gorgeous. I have 8 and 11 year old
> kids, and we usually take along mountain bikes, but because of the
> (hopefully) rough roads I expect to encounter, I think we will leave
> them home for this trip. (They get really shaken up on nasty roads.)
> So activities need to be relatively stress-free and kid-oriented. We
> will probably take no more that 10 days for the entire trip.
>
> Forest roads, ruts and small washouts are fine, but my trailer isn't
> set up yet for really severe off-roading: This is my rig:
> http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/Horses-01.jpg
>
> From what I have read so far, the extreme southwest sounds great. I
> don't think I want to get down too close to the Yellowstone crowds -
> we will be there in high summer (July maybe?), though I would kind of
> like to go on the Beartooth Highway... I was thinking of going
> straight down to the extreme SW corner and exploring the Big Sheep
> Creek area, then working back north toward I-90 and home. Any areas as
> far north as I-90 and as far east as I-15 are on my wish list. Maybe a
> little bit north of I-90.
>
> Rockhounding would be great - my wife is getting really interested in
> that. She has a tumbler, rock pick and other hand tools. If you can
> give me some really remote locations with great rocks she will
> tolerate _much_ more bouncing around to get there.... ;) Are there
> any placer gold areas, or is this strictly deep mining country? We
> might like to try a little gold panning.
> >
> > Staying in the foothill area has more old forest service
> > and timber trails than in the mountains themselves due
> > to terrain restricting the ability to run more than one
> > route thru...
>
> That was my idea - staying in primitive or State Park campgrounds and
> maybe making a few runs through passes, but mostly staying in the
> foothills and towns.
>
> > If you come into Missoula on 12, you can drop south down
> > thru Hamilton, then cruise down 93 until you see interesting
> > turnoffs. If you go too far, you'll be in Lost Trail Pass
> > which is georgeous but not exactly offroad material.
> >
> > There's a really nice loop eastward thru the bitterroot
> > forest that takes off east just south of Hamilton a few
> > miles, then meets another road that loops back to 93.
> > Fairly easy to navigate in a 4x4 as long as it is late
> > enough in the year to avoid the spring snows. Or cut
> > east to Philipsburg and hunt your own cornflower sapphires.
>
> How late do the passes stay snowed in? Is July safe?
>
> > Or you can go further south on 93 and cut over toward
> > Dillon, but drop off into Bannack, the old state capital
> > and ghost town. From there, you could head for Polaris,
> > Coolidge, Elkhorn old mines with good trails. Dillon
> > itself might be a good base of travel...
>
> Sounds good - I want to see Bannock and Garnet ghost towns, and maybe
> Elkhorn if we decide to get up toward Helena.
>
> > Check this and similar sites out:
> > http://www.bitterroot.net/usdafs/camp.HTML
> >
> > PS. Presumably you would have 100% bear proof gear...and
> > know the difference between a black and a grizzly.
>
> Well, that's a big concern - we are tent campers. Are bears a problem
> throughout the area, or just in primitive areas? We know about the
> "tame" bears that stroll through the Yellowstone campgrounds - does
> this happen throughout the MT mountains? Even in developed State Park
> cg's? Maybe we will have to stay in motels..... It would leave more
> room for rocks in the trailer.
> http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/LX450-02.jpg
>
> Thanks very much for the informative post and any more info..
>
> John Davies
> Spokane WA USA

Re: OT - 4x4 Guidebook for Montana?
 

Approximately 10/18/03 07:28, John Davies uttered for posterity:

>
>
> Rockhounding would be great - my wife is getting really interested in
> that. She has a tumbler, rock pick and other hand tools. If you can
> give me some really remote locations with great rocks she will
> tolerate _much_ more bouncing around to get there.... ;) Are there
> any placer gold areas, or is this strictly deep mining country? We
> might like to try a little gold panning.

Do a few googles on Montana cornflower sapphires. There are
several locations with "dig your own" type access around
Judith Gap and such. These are all commercial mines...

As for gold panning, yes there are surface deposits. Oddly
enough downtown Helena used to have some of the best ones
in a creek there. The area around Bannack still has
gold in it, but then so does pretty much that whole area,
kinda like just west of Denver. Don't expect to get rich.

The best times for panning are after the spring melt floods,
as they have the velocity to pick up the small flecks of
heavy gold and move it to the collection areas...which are
cracks, eddies, etc. Pretty much anyplace you see the
telltale black sand collecting in low spots.

Another thing to watch for in Montana is rose quartz which
is ok in itself but also frequently found near gold.

Some of the best rockhounding is in the streams and rivers
where the stuff gets pretty jumbled and tumbled as it comes
out of the old glacial deposits.

A bit further east you run into the montana moss agates,
so be sure to take a rock pick or hammer so you can chip
any rock you find that has a somewhat translucent look.

>
> How late do the passes stay snowed in? Is July safe?

Bwaaaahaaaaahaaaahaaahaaaa. Dude, this is MONTANA.
I've had my rear end snowed in on I-90 after the
4th of July. Seriously, the best way to check is
just keep an eye on the web based weather sites for
Dillon, Hamilton, Bannack [a ghost town] etc.
And check with the locals before taking any of those
passes between Hwy 93 and Dillon.

>
> Sounds good - I want to see Bannock and Garnet ghost towns, and maybe
> Elkhorn if we decide to get up toward Helena.

Best gold nugget I've ever found was just outside of
Helena, at the old Nasty Guard artillery range.


> Well, that's a big concern - we are tent campers. Are bears a problem
> throughout the area, or just in primitive areas? We know about the
> "tame" bears that stroll through the Yellowstone campgrounds - does
> this happen throughout the MT mountains? Even in developed State Park
> cg's? Maybe we will have to stay in motels..... It would leave more
> room for rocks in the trailer.

Bears tend to be more of a problem around well populated camp
sites, simply because the bears are quite intelligent and are
excellent at figuring out potential food sources.

The actual odds of being a bear victim though are extremely
small, I'd guess not over 2-3 folks per year in the entire
state, and most of them are grizzly fatalities due to
getting between a grizzly and cubs or simply startling
one. Making lotsa noise in bear country is a really
really good thing at all times.

If you are not familiar with bear safety practices, stay
in town or learn them. Some good ones are available at
the Glacier Park site. Mainly keeping your food secure
and avoid strong odored foods when cooking. If you are
not near your car and a bear sees or smells food, it can
and will, simply rip the car apart to get it. Solitary
bear well away from humans are not as likely to be a
problem as those habituated by nearby towns and camper sites.





> http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/LX450-02.jpg
>
> Thanks very much for the informative post and any more info..
>
> John Davies
> Spokane WA USA


--
My governor can kick your governor's ass

Re: OT - 4x4 Guidebook for Montana?
 

Approximately 10/18/03 07:28, John Davies uttered for posterity:

>
>
> Rockhounding would be great - my wife is getting really interested in
> that. She has a tumbler, rock pick and other hand tools. If you can
> give me some really remote locations with great rocks she will
> tolerate _much_ more bouncing around to get there.... ;) Are there
> any placer gold areas, or is this strictly deep mining country? We
> might like to try a little gold panning.

Do a few googles on Montana cornflower sapphires. There are
several locations with "dig your own" type access around
Judith Gap and such. These are all commercial mines...

As for gold panning, yes there are surface deposits. Oddly
enough downtown Helena used to have some of the best ones
in a creek there. The area around Bannack still has
gold in it, but then so does pretty much that whole area,
kinda like just west of Denver. Don't expect to get rich.

The best times for panning are after the spring melt floods,
as they have the velocity to pick up the small flecks of
heavy gold and move it to the collection areas...which are
cracks, eddies, etc. Pretty much anyplace you see the
telltale black sand collecting in low spots.

Another thing to watch for in Montana is rose quartz which
is ok in itself but also frequently found near gold.

Some of the best rockhounding is in the streams and rivers
where the stuff gets pretty jumbled and tumbled as it comes
out of the old glacial deposits.

A bit further east you run into the montana moss agates,
so be sure to take a rock pick or hammer so you can chip
any rock you find that has a somewhat translucent look.

>
> How late do the passes stay snowed in? Is July safe?

Bwaaaahaaaaahaaaahaaahaaaa. Dude, this is MONTANA.
I've had my rear end snowed in on I-90 after the
4th of July. Seriously, the best way to check is
just keep an eye on the web based weather sites for
Dillon, Hamilton, Bannack [a ghost town] etc.
And check with the locals before taking any of those
passes between Hwy 93 and Dillon.

>
> Sounds good - I want to see Bannock and Garnet ghost towns, and maybe
> Elkhorn if we decide to get up toward Helena.

Best gold nugget I've ever found was just outside of
Helena, at the old Nasty Guard artillery range.


> Well, that's a big concern - we are tent campers. Are bears a problem
> throughout the area, or just in primitive areas? We know about the
> "tame" bears that stroll through the Yellowstone campgrounds - does
> this happen throughout the MT mountains? Even in developed State Park
> cg's? Maybe we will have to stay in motels..... It would leave more
> room for rocks in the trailer.

Bears tend to be more of a problem around well populated camp
sites, simply because the bears are quite intelligent and are
excellent at figuring out potential food sources.

The actual odds of being a bear victim though are extremely
small, I'd guess not over 2-3 folks per year in the entire
state, and most of them are grizzly fatalities due to
getting between a grizzly and cubs or simply startling
one. Making lotsa noise in bear country is a really
really good thing at all times.

If you are not familiar with bear safety practices, stay
in town or learn them. Some good ones are available at
the Glacier Park site. Mainly keeping your food secure
and avoid strong odored foods when cooking. If you are
not near your car and a bear sees or smells food, it can
and will, simply rip the car apart to get it. Solitary
bear well away from humans are not as likely to be a
problem as those habituated by nearby towns and camper sites.





> http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/LX450-02.jpg
>
> Thanks very much for the informative post and any more info..
>
> John Davies
> Spokane WA USA


--
My governor can kick your governor's ass

Re: OT - 4x4 Guidebook for Montana?
 

Approximately 10/18/03 07:28, John Davies uttered for posterity:

>
>
> Rockhounding would be great - my wife is getting really interested in
> that. She has a tumbler, rock pick and other hand tools. If you can
> give me some really remote locations with great rocks she will
> tolerate _much_ more bouncing around to get there.... ;) Are there
> any placer gold areas, or is this strictly deep mining country? We
> might like to try a little gold panning.

Do a few googles on Montana cornflower sapphires. There are
several locations with "dig your own" type access around
Judith Gap and such. These are all commercial mines...

As for gold panning, yes there are surface deposits. Oddly
enough downtown Helena used to have some of the best ones
in a creek there. The area around Bannack still has
gold in it, but then so does pretty much that whole area,
kinda like just west of Denver. Don't expect to get rich.

The best times for panning are after the spring melt floods,
as they have the velocity to pick up the small flecks of
heavy gold and move it to the collection areas...which are
cracks, eddies, etc. Pretty much anyplace you see the
telltale black sand collecting in low spots.

Another thing to watch for in Montana is rose quartz which
is ok in itself but also frequently found near gold.

Some of the best rockhounding is in the streams and rivers
where the stuff gets pretty jumbled and tumbled as it comes
out of the old glacial deposits.

A bit further east you run into the montana moss agates,
so be sure to take a rock pick or hammer so you can chip
any rock you find that has a somewhat translucent look.

>
> How late do the passes stay snowed in? Is July safe?

Bwaaaahaaaaahaaaahaaahaaaa. Dude, this is MONTANA.
I've had my rear end snowed in on I-90 after the
4th of July. Seriously, the best way to check is
just keep an eye on the web based weather sites for
Dillon, Hamilton, Bannack [a ghost town] etc.
And check with the locals before taking any of those
passes between Hwy 93 and Dillon.

>
> Sounds good - I want to see Bannock and Garnet ghost towns, and maybe
> Elkhorn if we decide to get up toward Helena.

Best gold nugget I've ever found was just outside of
Helena, at the old Nasty Guard artillery range.


> Well, that's a big concern - we are tent campers. Are bears a problem
> throughout the area, or just in primitive areas? We know about the
> "tame" bears that stroll through the Yellowstone campgrounds - does
> this happen throughout the MT mountains? Even in developed State Park
> cg's? Maybe we will have to stay in motels..... It would leave more
> room for rocks in the trailer.

Bears tend to be more of a problem around well populated camp
sites, simply because the bears are quite intelligent and are
excellent at figuring out potential food sources.

The actual odds of being a bear victim though are extremely
small, I'd guess not over 2-3 folks per year in the entire
state, and most of them are grizzly fatalities due to
getting between a grizzly and cubs or simply startling
one. Making lotsa noise in bear country is a really
really good thing at all times.

If you are not familiar with bear safety practices, stay
in town or learn them. Some good ones are available at
the Glacier Park site. Mainly keeping your food secure
and avoid strong odored foods when cooking. If you are
not near your car and a bear sees or smells food, it can
and will, simply rip the car apart to get it. Solitary
bear well away from humans are not as likely to be a
problem as those habituated by nearby towns and camper sites.





> http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/LX450-02.jpg
>
> Thanks very much for the informative post and any more info..
>
> John Davies
> Spokane WA USA


--
My governor can kick your governor's ass

Re: OT - 4x4 Guidebook for Montana?
 

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:38:15 UTC "Nathan Collier"
<JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote:

> "John Davies" <johnedavies@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:02h2pvk7al9vp1j0tmt30q30m9en3rid2m@4ax.com...
> > What was so cool about a rest stop? Did you post the correct pic?
>
> youve obviously never seen north carolina rest stops along I95 where you
> step over crack heads to get into the can only to have to work your way
> through male prostitutes in drag that wanna blow you for $5.
>
> so yeah.....i thought montana rest stops were GREAT. :-)

I have to agree with you there, Nate. The one on I-90 between
Billings and Sheridan was great - large open area, clean, even had a
small display area with some pretty decent historical info. They even
had a couple acres of brush designated as a pet exercise area.

I grew up in Texas where the typical "roadside park" of 50 years ago
was a couple of picnic tables with an occasional shelter and a stile
so you could get over the fence to find a convenient bush. A lot of
them even had a water well and pump. Back then, they were spaced about
every 20 miles or so. Today, these have pretty well disappeared to be
replaced by much larger (and father apart) facilities boasting running
water, electricity, and lights - lots of lights - similar to the ones
you saw in Montana. That seems to be the trend in all the western
states I've driven in lately (Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorado,
Wyoming and Montana). The key seems to have been economy - the new
rest areas are "sponsored" by someone like the local garden club or
tourist bureau so the state expense basically ends with initial
construction. Wyoming seems to have located theirs right next to
highway patrol facilities and sport prominent signs offering $500
rewards for reporting vandalism. The location and reasonable reward
value makes me think they mean it...

I sure got a different impression of NC last time I was there - but
that was in Craven county (New Bern, a little north of Cherry Point)
so maybe saw just a skewed sample.

BTW, we drove through about 20 miles of a snow storm coming back from
Billings last weekend...

--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Re: OT - 4x4 Guidebook for Montana?
 

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:38:15 UTC "Nathan Collier"
<JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote:

> "John Davies" <johnedavies@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:02h2pvk7al9vp1j0tmt30q30m9en3rid2m@4ax.com...
> > What was so cool about a rest stop? Did you post the correct pic?
>
> youve obviously never seen north carolina rest stops along I95 where you
> step over crack heads to get into the can only to have to work your way
> through male prostitutes in drag that wanna blow you for $5.
>
> so yeah.....i thought montana rest stops were GREAT. :-)

I have to agree with you there, Nate. The one on I-90 between
Billings and Sheridan was great - large open area, clean, even had a
small display area with some pretty decent historical info. They even
had a couple acres of brush designated as a pet exercise area.

I grew up in Texas where the typical "roadside park" of 50 years ago
was a couple of picnic tables with an occasional shelter and a stile
so you could get over the fence to find a convenient bush. A lot of
them even had a water well and pump. Back then, they were spaced about
every 20 miles or so. Today, these have pretty well disappeared to be
replaced by much larger (and father apart) facilities boasting running
water, electricity, and lights - lots of lights - similar to the ones
you saw in Montana. That seems to be the trend in all the western
states I've driven in lately (Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorado,
Wyoming and Montana). The key seems to have been economy - the new
rest areas are "sponsored" by someone like the local garden club or
tourist bureau so the state expense basically ends with initial
construction. Wyoming seems to have located theirs right next to
highway patrol facilities and sport prominent signs offering $500
rewards for reporting vandalism. The location and reasonable reward
value makes me think they mean it...

I sure got a different impression of NC last time I was there - but
that was in Craven county (New Bern, a little north of Cherry Point)
so maybe saw just a skewed sample.

BTW, we drove through about 20 miles of a snow storm coming back from
Billings last weekend...

--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Re: OT - 4x4 Guidebook for Montana?
 

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:38:15 UTC "Nathan Collier"
<JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote:

> "John Davies" <johnedavies@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:02h2pvk7al9vp1j0tmt30q30m9en3rid2m@4ax.com...
> > What was so cool about a rest stop? Did you post the correct pic?
>
> youve obviously never seen north carolina rest stops along I95 where you
> step over crack heads to get into the can only to have to work your way
> through male prostitutes in drag that wanna blow you for $5.
>
> so yeah.....i thought montana rest stops were GREAT. :-)

I have to agree with you there, Nate. The one on I-90 between
Billings and Sheridan was great - large open area, clean, even had a
small display area with some pretty decent historical info. They even
had a couple acres of brush designated as a pet exercise area.

I grew up in Texas where the typical "roadside park" of 50 years ago
was a couple of picnic tables with an occasional shelter and a stile
so you could get over the fence to find a convenient bush. A lot of
them even had a water well and pump. Back then, they were spaced about
every 20 miles or so. Today, these have pretty well disappeared to be
replaced by much larger (and father apart) facilities boasting running
water, electricity, and lights - lots of lights - similar to the ones
you saw in Montana. That seems to be the trend in all the western
states I've driven in lately (Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorado,
Wyoming and Montana). The key seems to have been economy - the new
rest areas are "sponsored" by someone like the local garden club or
tourist bureau so the state expense basically ends with initial
construction. Wyoming seems to have located theirs right next to
highway patrol facilities and sport prominent signs offering $500
rewards for reporting vandalism. The location and reasonable reward
value makes me think they mean it...

I sure got a different impression of NC last time I was there - but
that was in Craven county (New Bern, a little north of Cherry Point)
so maybe saw just a skewed sample.

BTW, we drove through about 20 miles of a snow storm coming back from
Billings last weekend...

--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Re: OT - 4x4 Guidebook for Montana?
 

"Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-443WXbmdNf0i@anon.none.net...
> Today, these have pretty well disappeared to be
> replaced by much larger (and father apart) facilities boasting running
> water, electricity, and lights - lots of lights - similar to the ones
> you saw in Montana.

the ones in north dakota were the coolest. theyre equipped with kiosk
stations that offer you free dial up internet service or pay broadband
access. was cool to stop at the rest stops to browse a few message boards.
every time we'd come up on a rest stop the wifey would say over the cb
"lemme guess, you gotta go AGAIN?". if she only knew i was stopping to talk
about jeeps. ha ha


--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com