Mustang 5.0 into a CJ7 questions
 

A friend has an 85 CJ7 with a mustang 5.0 in it and a T-5 tranny on.

The clutch setup is a pull on the clutch fork, not a push like a CJ
clutch.

The bell housing, clutch and tranny 'appear' to be the borg warner
Mustang T-5 because there is no internal pivot for the clutch fork in
the bell housing.

Someone has used a brake cable to sort of give him a cable actuated
clutch, but it doesn't work for ---- and the cable keeps snapping.

Has anyone done this type of conversion and if so how did you make the
clutch work?

Mustang pedal? Hydraulic? Cable?

Thanks,

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Re: Mustang 5.0 into a CJ7 questions
 

Convert it to hydraulic:
http://www.autoworks.cc/65-70_clutch...structions.htm I bought a
cable kit once, one of the worst decisions I've made.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> A friend has an 85 CJ7 with a mustang 5.0 in it and a T-5 tranny on.
>
> The clutch setup is a pull on the clutch fork, not a push like a CJ
> clutch.
>
> The bell housing, clutch and tranny 'appear' to be the borg warner
> Mustang T-5 because there is no internal pivot for the clutch fork in
> the bell housing.
>
> Someone has used a brake cable to sort of give him a cable actuated
> clutch, but it doesn't work for ---- and the cable keeps snapping.
>
> Has anyone done this type of conversion and if so how did you make the
> clutch work?
>
> Mustang pedal? Hydraulic? Cable?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Re: Mustang 5.0 into a CJ7 questions
 

Do you think something like that will work with the CJ manual clutch
pedal?

He would need some type of Jeep master cylinder and the pushrod for it
right?

Maybe a YJ master?

Then would a Jeep master have enough flow to make that monster slave
move far enough?

Mike

"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> Convert it to hydraulic:
> http://www.autoworks.cc/65-70_clutch...structions.htm I bought a
> cable kit once, one of the worst decisions I've made.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > A friend has an 85 CJ7 with a mustang 5.0 in it and a T-5 tranny on.
> >
> > The clutch setup is a pull on the clutch fork, not a push like a CJ
> > clutch.
> >
> > The bell housing, clutch and tranny 'appear' to be the borg warner
> > Mustang T-5 because there is no internal pivot for the clutch fork in
> > the bell housing.
> >
> > Someone has used a brake cable to sort of give him a cable actuated
> > clutch, but it doesn't work for ---- and the cable keeps snapping.
> >
> > Has anyone done this type of conversion and if so how did you make the
> > clutch work?
> >
> > Mustang pedal? Hydraulic? Cable?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Re: Mustang 5.0 into a CJ7 questions. Follow up questions..
 

I checked out prices for the hydraulic kits and WOW! Almost $500.00 US
which is way over $800.00 by the time it gets here...

The cable in it now only moves 1/2" at the clutch fork with full travel
of the pedal and 5th will start the new clutch smoking, so it isn't
releasing enough for the pressure plate to clamp down and is barley
letting him get into gear as well.

He did buy the CJ7 cheap with a smoked out clutch and broken cable...

We checked out some junkers for hydraulic parts, could make a YJ master
fit in easy then I suddenly clicked in that he now only has 1/2" of
movement, I wonder what my 'push' setup on my stock CJ mechanical
linkage has.

Well, you know, I have slightly over 1" of 'push' with 1"+ of free play
at the top of the pedal.

Hmmm.....

So I am thinking, if we put the stock linkage back in his and I cut the
bar off that holds the rod to the clutch fork and put it on top of the
arm from the firewall to the bell housing instead of it being on the
bottom, that will give me at least 1" of 'pull'.

Then a piece of threaded rod would only need a 90 deg bend at the lever
and an inch or so of downward Z shape to have a straight pull on the
clutch fork. I could gusset it easy so the Z shape holds. I have a
small wire feed 'MIG'.

Or does anyone know if a slight upward pull on the fork will harm the
throw out bearing?

Then he is back with Jeep parts and solid mechanical linkage like he
'should' be in my mind.

Sound ok?

Does anyone have a clue what the travel on the clutch fork for a Mustang
T5 'should' be?

I was told that the Mustang T5 should clutch fork have 7 lb pull on it
when the clutch pedal was released to be set up right? This means the
throw out bearing is 'pre-loaded', not floating free like the Jeep T5
clutch.

I could make a longer or shorter arm if needed.

Any opinions?

Thanks,

Mike

"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> Convert it to hydraulic:
> http://www.autoworks.cc/65-70_clutch...structions.htm I bought a
> cable kit once, one of the worst decisions I've made.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > A friend has an 85 CJ7 with a mustang 5.0 in it and a T-5 tranny on.
> >
> > The clutch setup is a pull on the clutch fork, not a push like a CJ
> > clutch.
> >
> > The bell housing, clutch and tranny 'appear' to be the borg warner
> > Mustang T-5 because there is no internal pivot for the clutch fork in
> > the bell housing.
> >
> > Someone has used a brake cable to sort of give him a cable actuated
> > clutch, but it doesn't work for ---- and the cable keeps snapping.
> >
> > Has anyone done this type of conversion and if so how did you make the
> > clutch work?
> >
> > Mustang pedal? Hydraulic? Cable?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Re: Mustang 5.0 into a CJ7 questions. Follow up questions..
 

Hi Mike,
You know more about this setup than I. Might check out the bone
yards to see how a stock Mustang uses it's bell cranks, and see if you
can improvise that stuff. My Son bought a bell crank from Advance
Adapters for his Chevy conversion, maybe they have something for the
Ford. I use two Ford slaves from the fifties for my hydraulic setup.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I checked out prices for the hydraulic kits and WOW! Almost $500.00 US
> which is way over $800.00 by the time it gets here...
>
> The cable in it now only moves 1/2" at the clutch fork with full travel
> of the pedal and 5th will start the new clutch smoking, so it isn't
> releasing enough for the pressure plate to clamp down and is barley
> letting him get into gear as well.
>
> He did buy the CJ7 cheap with a smoked out clutch and broken cable...
>
> We checked out some junkers for hydraulic parts, could make a YJ master
> fit in easy then I suddenly clicked in that he now only has 1/2" of
> movement, I wonder what my 'push' setup on my stock CJ mechanical
> linkage has.
>
> Well, you know, I have slightly over 1" of 'push' with 1"+ of free play
> at the top of the pedal.
>
> Hmmm.....
>
> So I am thinking, if we put the stock linkage back in his and I cut the
> bar off that holds the rod to the clutch fork and put it on top of the
> arm from the firewall to the bell housing instead of it being on the
> bottom, that will give me at least 1" of 'pull'.
>
> Then a piece of threaded rod would only need a 90 deg bend at the lever
> and an inch or so of downward Z shape to have a straight pull on the
> clutch fork. I could gusset it easy so the Z shape holds. I have a
> small wire feed 'MIG'.
>
> Or does anyone know if a slight upward pull on the fork will harm the
> throw out bearing?
>
> Then he is back with Jeep parts and solid mechanical linkage like he
> 'should' be in my mind.
>
> Sound ok?
>
> Does anyone have a clue what the travel on the clutch fork for a Mustang
> T5 'should' be?
>
> I was told that the Mustang T5 should clutch fork have 7 lb pull on it
> when the clutch pedal was released to be set up right? This means the
> throw out bearing is 'pre-loaded', not floating free like the Jeep T5
> clutch.
>
> I could make a longer or shorter arm if needed.
>
> Any opinions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike

Re: Mustang 5.0 into a CJ7 questions. Follow up questions..
 

Guys I worked with at a Mack garage in Hagerstown, MD swore up and down that
a Mack clutch cable was good enough for any vehicle. I don't like clutch
cables myself, but the truly annoying thing about these guys was that they
had been putting Mack clutch cables in everything for so long that they had
actually gotten good at it.

Another idea that I think I saw in an Advance Adapters catalog is to use a
bicycle chain and a sprocket to convert a push type linkage to pull type.

I like hydraulics myself, but you have to get the lever arm right no matter
what you do.

Earle

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3F2082AE.9ABBE800@cox.net...
> Hi Mike,
> You know more about this setup than I. Might check out the bone
> yards to see how a stock Mustang uses it's bell cranks, and see if you
> can improvise that stuff. My Son bought a bell crank from Advance
> Adapters for his Chevy conversion, maybe they have something for the
> Ford. I use two Ford slaves from the fifties for my hydraulic setup.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > I checked out prices for the hydraulic kits and WOW! Almost $500.00 US
> > which is way over $800.00 by the time it gets here...
> >
> > The cable in it now only moves 1/2" at the clutch fork with full travel
> > of the pedal and 5th will start the new clutch smoking, so it isn't
> > releasing enough for the pressure plate to clamp down and is barley
> > letting him get into gear as well.
> >
> > He did buy the CJ7 cheap with a smoked out clutch and broken cable...
> >
> > We checked out some junkers for hydraulic parts, could make a YJ master
> > fit in easy then I suddenly clicked in that he now only has 1/2" of
> > movement, I wonder what my 'push' setup on my stock CJ mechanical
> > linkage has.
> >
> > Well, you know, I have slightly over 1" of 'push' with 1"+ of free play
> > at the top of the pedal.
> >
> > Hmmm.....
> >
> > So I am thinking, if we put the stock linkage back in his and I cut the
> > bar off that holds the rod to the clutch fork and put it on top of the
> > arm from the firewall to the bell housing instead of it being on the
> > bottom, that will give me at least 1" of 'pull'.
> >
> > Then a piece of threaded rod would only need a 90 deg bend at the lever
> > and an inch or so of downward Z shape to have a straight pull on the
> > clutch fork. I could gusset it easy so the Z shape holds. I have a
> > small wire feed 'MIG'.
> >
> > Or does anyone know if a slight upward pull on the fork will harm the
> > throw out bearing?
> >
> > Then he is back with Jeep parts and solid mechanical linkage like he
> > 'should' be in my mind.
> >
> > Sound ok?
> >
> > Does anyone have a clue what the travel on the clutch fork for a Mustang
> > T5 'should' be?
> >
> > I was told that the Mustang T5 should clutch fork have 7 lb pull on it
> > when the clutch pedal was released to be set up right? This means the
> > throw out bearing is 'pre-loaded', not floating free like the Jeep T5
> > clutch.
> >
> > I could make a longer or shorter arm if needed.
> >
> > Any opinions?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mike

Re: Mustang 5.0 into a CJ7 questions. Follow up questions..
 

I think I can just convert a stock CJ7 mechanical linkage to a puller
for really cheap and then no cables to break or wear or stretch, etc...

You know, the 'KISS' principal...

Got a young rookie owner scared half silly of this aborted Mustang 5.0
project he bought....

He has good potential and likes it enough to either make the clutch work
or sell it off like the last guy did and look for another CJ. Actually
he wants to look first, then sell if we can't make it behave.

I am off work from a car accident and helping him out with moral support
and a bit of know how to point him at what bolt to turn or what part he
needs is a 'great' way to pass the time. :-))

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> Guys I worked with at a Mack garage in Hagerstown, MD swore up and down that
> a Mack clutch cable was good enough for any vehicle. I don't like clutch
> cables myself, but the truly annoying thing about these guys was that they
> had been putting Mack clutch cables in everything for so long that they had
> actually gotten good at it.
>
> Another idea that I think I saw in an Advance Adapters catalog is to use a
> bicycle chain and a sprocket to convert a push type linkage to pull type.
>
> I like hydraulics myself, but you have to get the lever arm right no matter
> what you do.
>
> Earle
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:3F2082AE.9ABBE800@cox.net...
> > Hi Mike,
> > You know more about this setup than I. Might check out the bone
> > yards to see how a stock Mustang uses it's bell cranks, and see if you
> > can improvise that stuff. My Son bought a bell crank from Advance
> > Adapters for his Chevy conversion, maybe they have something for the
> > Ford. I use two Ford slaves from the fifties for my hydraulic setup.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > I checked out prices for the hydraulic kits and WOW! Almost $500.00 US
> > > which is way over $800.00 by the time it gets here...
> > >
> > > The cable in it now only moves 1/2" at the clutch fork with full travel
> > > of the pedal and 5th will start the new clutch smoking, so it isn't
> > > releasing enough for the pressure plate to clamp down and is barley
> > > letting him get into gear as well.
> > >
> > > He did buy the CJ7 cheap with a smoked out clutch and broken cable...
> > >
> > > We checked out some junkers for hydraulic parts, could make a YJ master
> > > fit in easy then I suddenly clicked in that he now only has 1/2" of
> > > movement, I wonder what my 'push' setup on my stock CJ mechanical
> > > linkage has.
> > >
> > > Well, you know, I have slightly over 1" of 'push' with 1"+ of free play
> > > at the top of the pedal.
> > >
> > > Hmmm.....
> > >
> > > So I am thinking, if we put the stock linkage back in his and I cut the
> > > bar off that holds the rod to the clutch fork and put it on top of the
> > > arm from the firewall to the bell housing instead of it being on the
> > > bottom, that will give me at least 1" of 'pull'.
> > >
> > > Then a piece of threaded rod would only need a 90 deg bend at the lever
> > > and an inch or so of downward Z shape to have a straight pull on the
> > > clutch fork. I could gusset it easy so the Z shape holds. I have a
> > > small wire feed 'MIG'.
> > >
> > > Or does anyone know if a slight upward pull on the fork will harm the
> > > throw out bearing?
> > >
> > > Then he is back with Jeep parts and solid mechanical linkage like he
> > > 'should' be in my mind.
> > >
> > > Sound ok?
> > >
> > > Does anyone have a clue what the travel on the clutch fork for a Mustang
> > > T5 'should' be?
> > >
> > > I was told that the Mustang T5 should clutch fork have 7 lb pull on it
> > > when the clutch pedal was released to be set up right? This means the
> > > throw out bearing is 'pre-loaded', not floating free like the Jeep T5
> > > clutch.
> > >
> > > I could make a longer or shorter arm if needed.
> > >
> > > Any opinions?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mike