Re: Manual Transmission Problem
 

Heh, that's why we have "education", "writing" and "numbers" now. To help
people find the correct transmission fluid. From the description it sounds
like a bad second gear synchro clutch, or possibly incorrect mainshaft
bearing adjustment. When you said that the dealer "tried a number of
things, including rebuilding the transmission, clutch, throwout bearing,
etc." do you know that they actually replaced any transmission parts at that
time? Because if they didn't, then they didn't really "rebuild" anything.
"Rebuild" implies take it apart, identify all worn parts, and put it back
together so it works. Do you think this "one man transmission shop" guy you
mentioned is any good? If so, bring it back to him and see what he thinks.

Earle

"Masnor" <Masnor@cox.net> wrote in message
news:HYfph.98425$Pv5.8653@newsfe17.lga...
> When the Dealer was trying to fix it, the parts list had the correct fluid
> id, according to the manual. However, when the one-man transmission shop
> worked on it, he thought the fluid was too thick to be correct. I'm not
> positive what's in it now, but it feels exactly the same and when the
Dealer
> was working on it.
>
> I'm just afraid that if I replace the transmmission, that the symptoms
will
> still be there and that the problem will have been something else. But, I
> can't really imagine what else could cause it.
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:DbydnaDXb-Ij-wfYnZ2dnUVZ_riknZ2d@comcast.com...
> > That transmission calls for a specific fluid, Pennzoil Syncromesh Manual
> > Transmission Fluid. It does not use standard gear oil.
> >
> > "Masnor" <Masnor@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:Lzimh.8268$2U4.826@newsfe16.lga...
> >> Thanks for the response.
> >>
> >> It's not been submerged, not before or after any of the rebuilds.
> >>
> >> I'm going to try different fluids and maybe some additives before
looking
> >> for a used replacement. But I may drop by some of the junk yards and
see
> >> what they are selling for.
> >>
> >> Masnor
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:45981656.7462D9D0@sympatico.ca...
> >>>I would figure any more spent on that tranny would be just throwing
good
> >>> money after bad. It is toast in my mind. Bad cast maybe.
> >>>
> >>> I would be looking around at the wreckers for one.
> >>>
> >>> Unless you have had your Jeep out to play in the water in the last
1000
> >>> miles? The tranny doesn't have a high water vent and they fill up if
> >>> submerged. They then usually shift bad....
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>>
> >>> Masnor wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a 2000 Wrangler with a 4 liter and manual five speed. I'm the
> >>>> second
> >>>> owner and the first owner was a nurse that used the jeep as a highway
> >>>> commuter car. The jeep has not been wrecked, rolled, or ever stuck.
> >>>>
> >>>> Over a year ago the reverse lockout pin was found (broken) while
> >>>> changing
> >>>> the transmission fluid. I took it to the dealer under warranty and
> >>>> they
> >>>> rebuilt the transmission. However, as soon as I picked up the Jeep
> >>>> there
> >>>> was a shift problem. That's when upshifting into 2ndfelt like a tooth
> >>>> or two
> >>>> was grinding past. It would shift and stay in 2nd gear, but it was
> >>>> like the
> >>>> clutch was only partially depressed while upshifting - like a lazy
> >>>> upshift
> >>>> micro-grind. Shifting up to 3rd had a similar feel, but was less
> >>>> noticeable. Downshifting was as it should be. No grind, but smooth
> >>>> shifting.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, I took it back of course. They tried a number of things,
including
> >>>> rebuilding the transmission, clutch, throwout bearing, etc. Nothing
> >>>> helped.
> >>>> And after five overnight trips to the dealer (30 miles away) they
told
> >>>> me
> >>>> there was nothing they could do. When they test drove it, it was
like
> >>>> they
> >>>> were driving the Pope-mobile and they would always take about three
> >>>> seconds
> >>>> to shift from one gear to the next - and with that time lag, the
> >>>> problem is
> >>>> less noticeable - but I could still hear it from the passenger seat.
> >>>> However, that kind of shift is not normal or comfortable. I didn't
> >>>> throw a
> >>>> big enough fit and the warranty eventually expired.
> >>>>
> >>>> The problem stayed and eventually got to the point of occasional full
> >>>> fledged grinds when shifting into second. Before having a lift put
in
> >>>> the
> >>>> Wrangler I wanted to be sure the transmission was going to be good
for
> >>>> the
> >>>> next 50,000 miles or so, so I took it to a one man transmission shop
> >>>> that
> >>>> was recommended by a long time general automotive mechanic I have
known
> >>>> for
> >>>> years.
> >>>>
> >>>> He couldn't find anything really wrong with the transmission except a
> >>>> little
> >>>> abrasion on the shaft - and he replaced the shaft. He thought the
> >>>> dealer
> >>>> had been using the wrong fluid and initially the transmission shifted
> >>>> better
> >>>> with the fluid he used. However, after only about 1,000 miles, the
> >>>> shifting
> >>>> problem (not the all out grind) is back.
> >>>>
> >>>> Unfortunately, while it was shifting better, I had a lot of work done
> >>>> on the
> >>>> Jeep. Now I have a 4 inch lift, new tires, new differentials, and
new
> >>>> drive
> >>>> shaft, but the transmission is annoying as hell. I can shift REAL
> >>>> slow, or
> >>>> double clutch when going up to 2nd, but that's not a cure, there is
> >>>> still
> >>>> something not meshing like it should.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, finally, any suggestions? I've even starting thinking of a new
> >>>> transmission, but the wife is going to kill me if it comes to that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Masnor@cox.net
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Manual Transmission Problem
 

Heh, that's why we have "education", "writing" and "numbers" now. To help
people find the correct transmission fluid. From the description it sounds
like a bad second gear synchro clutch, or possibly incorrect mainshaft
bearing adjustment. When you said that the dealer "tried a number of
things, including rebuilding the transmission, clutch, throwout bearing,
etc." do you know that they actually replaced any transmission parts at that
time? Because if they didn't, then they didn't really "rebuild" anything.
"Rebuild" implies take it apart, identify all worn parts, and put it back
together so it works. Do you think this "one man transmission shop" guy you
mentioned is any good? If so, bring it back to him and see what he thinks.

Earle

"Masnor" <Masnor@cox.net> wrote in message
news:HYfph.98425$Pv5.8653@newsfe17.lga...
> When the Dealer was trying to fix it, the parts list had the correct fluid
> id, according to the manual. However, when the one-man transmission shop
> worked on it, he thought the fluid was too thick to be correct. I'm not
> positive what's in it now, but it feels exactly the same and when the
Dealer
> was working on it.
>
> I'm just afraid that if I replace the transmmission, that the symptoms
will
> still be there and that the problem will have been something else. But, I
> can't really imagine what else could cause it.
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:DbydnaDXb-Ij-wfYnZ2dnUVZ_riknZ2d@comcast.com...
> > That transmission calls for a specific fluid, Pennzoil Syncromesh Manual
> > Transmission Fluid. It does not use standard gear oil.
> >
> > "Masnor" <Masnor@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:Lzimh.8268$2U4.826@newsfe16.lga...
> >> Thanks for the response.
> >>
> >> It's not been submerged, not before or after any of the rebuilds.
> >>
> >> I'm going to try different fluids and maybe some additives before
looking
> >> for a used replacement. But I may drop by some of the junk yards and
see
> >> what they are selling for.
> >>
> >> Masnor
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:45981656.7462D9D0@sympatico.ca...
> >>>I would figure any more spent on that tranny would be just throwing
good
> >>> money after bad. It is toast in my mind. Bad cast maybe.
> >>>
> >>> I would be looking around at the wreckers for one.
> >>>
> >>> Unless you have had your Jeep out to play in the water in the last
1000
> >>> miles? The tranny doesn't have a high water vent and they fill up if
> >>> submerged. They then usually shift bad....
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>>
> >>> Masnor wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a 2000 Wrangler with a 4 liter and manual five speed. I'm the
> >>>> second
> >>>> owner and the first owner was a nurse that used the jeep as a highway
> >>>> commuter car. The jeep has not been wrecked, rolled, or ever stuck.
> >>>>
> >>>> Over a year ago the reverse lockout pin was found (broken) while
> >>>> changing
> >>>> the transmission fluid. I took it to the dealer under warranty and
> >>>> they
> >>>> rebuilt the transmission. However, as soon as I picked up the Jeep
> >>>> there
> >>>> was a shift problem. That's when upshifting into 2ndfelt like a tooth
> >>>> or two
> >>>> was grinding past. It would shift and stay in 2nd gear, but it was
> >>>> like the
> >>>> clutch was only partially depressed while upshifting - like a lazy
> >>>> upshift
> >>>> micro-grind. Shifting up to 3rd had a similar feel, but was less
> >>>> noticeable. Downshifting was as it should be. No grind, but smooth
> >>>> shifting.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, I took it back of course. They tried a number of things,
including
> >>>> rebuilding the transmission, clutch, throwout bearing, etc. Nothing
> >>>> helped.
> >>>> And after five overnight trips to the dealer (30 miles away) they
told
> >>>> me
> >>>> there was nothing they could do. When they test drove it, it was
like
> >>>> they
> >>>> were driving the Pope-mobile and they would always take about three
> >>>> seconds
> >>>> to shift from one gear to the next - and with that time lag, the
> >>>> problem is
> >>>> less noticeable - but I could still hear it from the passenger seat.
> >>>> However, that kind of shift is not normal or comfortable. I didn't
> >>>> throw a
> >>>> big enough fit and the warranty eventually expired.
> >>>>
> >>>> The problem stayed and eventually got to the point of occasional full
> >>>> fledged grinds when shifting into second. Before having a lift put
in
> >>>> the
> >>>> Wrangler I wanted to be sure the transmission was going to be good
for
> >>>> the
> >>>> next 50,000 miles or so, so I took it to a one man transmission shop
> >>>> that
> >>>> was recommended by a long time general automotive mechanic I have
known
> >>>> for
> >>>> years.
> >>>>
> >>>> He couldn't find anything really wrong with the transmission except a
> >>>> little
> >>>> abrasion on the shaft - and he replaced the shaft. He thought the
> >>>> dealer
> >>>> had been using the wrong fluid and initially the transmission shifted
> >>>> better
> >>>> with the fluid he used. However, after only about 1,000 miles, the
> >>>> shifting
> >>>> problem (not the all out grind) is back.
> >>>>
> >>>> Unfortunately, while it was shifting better, I had a lot of work done
> >>>> on the
> >>>> Jeep. Now I have a 4 inch lift, new tires, new differentials, and
new
> >>>> drive
> >>>> shaft, but the transmission is annoying as hell. I can shift REAL
> >>>> slow, or
> >>>> double clutch when going up to 2nd, but that's not a cure, there is
> >>>> still
> >>>> something not meshing like it should.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, finally, any suggestions? I've even starting thinking of a new
> >>>> transmission, but the wife is going to kill me if it comes to that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Masnor@cox.net
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Manual Transmission Problem
 

Heh, that's why we have "education", "writing" and "numbers" now. To help
people find the correct transmission fluid. From the description it sounds
like a bad second gear synchro clutch, or possibly incorrect mainshaft
bearing adjustment. When you said that the dealer "tried a number of
things, including rebuilding the transmission, clutch, throwout bearing,
etc." do you know that they actually replaced any transmission parts at that
time? Because if they didn't, then they didn't really "rebuild" anything.
"Rebuild" implies take it apart, identify all worn parts, and put it back
together so it works. Do you think this "one man transmission shop" guy you
mentioned is any good? If so, bring it back to him and see what he thinks.

Earle

"Masnor" <Masnor@cox.net> wrote in message
news:HYfph.98425$Pv5.8653@newsfe17.lga...
> When the Dealer was trying to fix it, the parts list had the correct fluid
> id, according to the manual. However, when the one-man transmission shop
> worked on it, he thought the fluid was too thick to be correct. I'm not
> positive what's in it now, but it feels exactly the same and when the
Dealer
> was working on it.
>
> I'm just afraid that if I replace the transmmission, that the symptoms
will
> still be there and that the problem will have been something else. But, I
> can't really imagine what else could cause it.
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:DbydnaDXb-Ij-wfYnZ2dnUVZ_riknZ2d@comcast.com...
> > That transmission calls for a specific fluid, Pennzoil Syncromesh Manual
> > Transmission Fluid. It does not use standard gear oil.
> >
> > "Masnor" <Masnor@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:Lzimh.8268$2U4.826@newsfe16.lga...
> >> Thanks for the response.
> >>
> >> It's not been submerged, not before or after any of the rebuilds.
> >>
> >> I'm going to try different fluids and maybe some additives before
looking
> >> for a used replacement. But I may drop by some of the junk yards and
see
> >> what they are selling for.
> >>
> >> Masnor
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:45981656.7462D9D0@sympatico.ca...
> >>>I would figure any more spent on that tranny would be just throwing
good
> >>> money after bad. It is toast in my mind. Bad cast maybe.
> >>>
> >>> I would be looking around at the wreckers for one.
> >>>
> >>> Unless you have had your Jeep out to play in the water in the last
1000
> >>> miles? The tranny doesn't have a high water vent and they fill up if
> >>> submerged. They then usually shift bad....
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>>
> >>> Masnor wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a 2000 Wrangler with a 4 liter and manual five speed. I'm the
> >>>> second
> >>>> owner and the first owner was a nurse that used the jeep as a highway
> >>>> commuter car. The jeep has not been wrecked, rolled, or ever stuck.
> >>>>
> >>>> Over a year ago the reverse lockout pin was found (broken) while
> >>>> changing
> >>>> the transmission fluid. I took it to the dealer under warranty and
> >>>> they
> >>>> rebuilt the transmission. However, as soon as I picked up the Jeep
> >>>> there
> >>>> was a shift problem. That's when upshifting into 2ndfelt like a tooth
> >>>> or two
> >>>> was grinding past. It would shift and stay in 2nd gear, but it was
> >>>> like the
> >>>> clutch was only partially depressed while upshifting - like a lazy
> >>>> upshift
> >>>> micro-grind. Shifting up to 3rd had a similar feel, but was less
> >>>> noticeable. Downshifting was as it should be. No grind, but smooth
> >>>> shifting.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, I took it back of course. They tried a number of things,
including
> >>>> rebuilding the transmission, clutch, throwout bearing, etc. Nothing
> >>>> helped.
> >>>> And after five overnight trips to the dealer (30 miles away) they
told
> >>>> me
> >>>> there was nothing they could do. When they test drove it, it was
like
> >>>> they
> >>>> were driving the Pope-mobile and they would always take about three
> >>>> seconds
> >>>> to shift from one gear to the next - and with that time lag, the
> >>>> problem is
> >>>> less noticeable - but I could still hear it from the passenger seat.
> >>>> However, that kind of shift is not normal or comfortable. I didn't
> >>>> throw a
> >>>> big enough fit and the warranty eventually expired.
> >>>>
> >>>> The problem stayed and eventually got to the point of occasional full
> >>>> fledged grinds when shifting into second. Before having a lift put
in
> >>>> the
> >>>> Wrangler I wanted to be sure the transmission was going to be good
for
> >>>> the
> >>>> next 50,000 miles or so, so I took it to a one man transmission shop
> >>>> that
> >>>> was recommended by a long time general automotive mechanic I have
known
> >>>> for
> >>>> years.
> >>>>
> >>>> He couldn't find anything really wrong with the transmission except a
> >>>> little
> >>>> abrasion on the shaft - and he replaced the shaft. He thought the
> >>>> dealer
> >>>> had been using the wrong fluid and initially the transmission shifted
> >>>> better
> >>>> with the fluid he used. However, after only about 1,000 miles, the
> >>>> shifting
> >>>> problem (not the all out grind) is back.
> >>>>
> >>>> Unfortunately, while it was shifting better, I had a lot of work done
> >>>> on the
> >>>> Jeep. Now I have a 4 inch lift, new tires, new differentials, and
new
> >>>> drive
> >>>> shaft, but the transmission is annoying as hell. I can shift REAL
> >>>> slow, or
> >>>> double clutch when going up to 2nd, but that's not a cure, there is
> >>>> still
> >>>> something not meshing like it should.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, finally, any suggestions? I've even starting thinking of a new
> >>>> transmission, but the wife is going to kill me if it comes to that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Masnor@cox.net
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Manual Transmission Problem
 

Heh, that's why we have "education", "writing" and "numbers" now. To help
people find the correct transmission fluid. From the description it sounds
like a bad second gear synchro clutch, or possibly incorrect mainshaft
bearing adjustment. When you said that the dealer "tried a number of
things, including rebuilding the transmission, clutch, throwout bearing,
etc." do you know that they actually replaced any transmission parts at that
time? Because if they didn't, then they didn't really "rebuild" anything.
"Rebuild" implies take it apart, identify all worn parts, and put it back
together so it works. Do you think this "one man transmission shop" guy you
mentioned is any good? If so, bring it back to him and see what he thinks.

Earle

"Masnor" <Masnor@cox.net> wrote in message
news:HYfph.98425$Pv5.8653@newsfe17.lga...
> When the Dealer was trying to fix it, the parts list had the correct fluid
> id, according to the manual. However, when the one-man transmission shop
> worked on it, he thought the fluid was too thick to be correct. I'm not
> positive what's in it now, but it feels exactly the same and when the
Dealer
> was working on it.
>
> I'm just afraid that if I replace the transmmission, that the symptoms
will
> still be there and that the problem will have been something else. But, I
> can't really imagine what else could cause it.
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:DbydnaDXb-Ij-wfYnZ2dnUVZ_riknZ2d@comcast.com...
> > That transmission calls for a specific fluid, Pennzoil Syncromesh Manual
> > Transmission Fluid. It does not use standard gear oil.
> >
> > "Masnor" <Masnor@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:Lzimh.8268$2U4.826@newsfe16.lga...
> >> Thanks for the response.
> >>
> >> It's not been submerged, not before or after any of the rebuilds.
> >>
> >> I'm going to try different fluids and maybe some additives before
looking
> >> for a used replacement. But I may drop by some of the junk yards and
see
> >> what they are selling for.
> >>
> >> Masnor
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:45981656.7462D9D0@sympatico.ca...
> >>>I would figure any more spent on that tranny would be just throwing
good
> >>> money after bad. It is toast in my mind. Bad cast maybe.
> >>>
> >>> I would be looking around at the wreckers for one.
> >>>
> >>> Unless you have had your Jeep out to play in the water in the last
1000
> >>> miles? The tranny doesn't have a high water vent and they fill up if
> >>> submerged. They then usually shift bad....
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>>
> >>> Masnor wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a 2000 Wrangler with a 4 liter and manual five speed. I'm the
> >>>> second
> >>>> owner and the first owner was a nurse that used the jeep as a highway
> >>>> commuter car. The jeep has not been wrecked, rolled, or ever stuck.
> >>>>
> >>>> Over a year ago the reverse lockout pin was found (broken) while
> >>>> changing
> >>>> the transmission fluid. I took it to the dealer under warranty and
> >>>> they
> >>>> rebuilt the transmission. However, as soon as I picked up the Jeep
> >>>> there
> >>>> was a shift problem. That's when upshifting into 2ndfelt like a tooth
> >>>> or two
> >>>> was grinding past. It would shift and stay in 2nd gear, but it was
> >>>> like the
> >>>> clutch was only partially depressed while upshifting - like a lazy
> >>>> upshift
> >>>> micro-grind. Shifting up to 3rd had a similar feel, but was less
> >>>> noticeable. Downshifting was as it should be. No grind, but smooth
> >>>> shifting.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, I took it back of course. They tried a number of things,
including
> >>>> rebuilding the transmission, clutch, throwout bearing, etc. Nothing
> >>>> helped.
> >>>> And after five overnight trips to the dealer (30 miles away) they
told
> >>>> me
> >>>> there was nothing they could do. When they test drove it, it was
like
> >>>> they
> >>>> were driving the Pope-mobile and they would always take about three
> >>>> seconds
> >>>> to shift from one gear to the next - and with that time lag, the
> >>>> problem is
> >>>> less noticeable - but I could still hear it from the passenger seat.
> >>>> However, that kind of shift is not normal or comfortable. I didn't
> >>>> throw a
> >>>> big enough fit and the warranty eventually expired.
> >>>>
> >>>> The problem stayed and eventually got to the point of occasional full
> >>>> fledged grinds when shifting into second. Before having a lift put
in
> >>>> the
> >>>> Wrangler I wanted to be sure the transmission was going to be good
for
> >>>> the
> >>>> next 50,000 miles or so, so I took it to a one man transmission shop
> >>>> that
> >>>> was recommended by a long time general automotive mechanic I have
known
> >>>> for
> >>>> years.
> >>>>
> >>>> He couldn't find anything really wrong with the transmission except a
> >>>> little
> >>>> abrasion on the shaft - and he replaced the shaft. He thought the
> >>>> dealer
> >>>> had been using the wrong fluid and initially the transmission shifted
> >>>> better
> >>>> with the fluid he used. However, after only about 1,000 miles, the
> >>>> shifting
> >>>> problem (not the all out grind) is back.
> >>>>
> >>>> Unfortunately, while it was shifting better, I had a lot of work done
> >>>> on the
> >>>> Jeep. Now I have a 4 inch lift, new tires, new differentials, and
new
> >>>> drive
> >>>> shaft, but the transmission is annoying as hell. I can shift REAL
> >>>> slow, or
> >>>> double clutch when going up to 2nd, but that's not a cure, there is
> >>>> still
> >>>> something not meshing like it should.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, finally, any suggestions? I've even starting thinking of a new
> >>>> transmission, but the wife is going to kill me if it comes to that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Masnor@cox.net
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>