JGC
I have a truck but I'm itchin to trade it in for a grand cherokee... I know
nothing about them though. Well I know I want the v8 for towing and 4wd just in case my tj doesn't make it for some reason. Anything anyone can suggest I watch out for? I'm looking for a used one, not the new ones with ifs... I like the older bubbly body style I've seen, its slightly newer. Troy |
Re: JGC
There have been a few body styles but it sounds like you mean the WJ Grand
Cherokee which was in production from 1999-2004 and which is what I drive. Many changes were made from the previous generation that improve the Grands off and on road performance. One big improvement was the relocation of the spare to below the floor in the back which opened up a lot of interior room. http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/jee...enav..12.Jeep* There are several engine and drivetrain combinations available over the years. You prefer the V-8 for its increased towing capacity. The available V-8 is a new 4.7 liter design that came in 2 versions. The standard version has 235hp/295ftlbs and the H.O. version boasts 265hp/330 ftlbs torque. Drive trains offer Select Trac with full and part time 4wd in 4-Hi and part time in 4-Lo and several all wheel drive versions offered in the different trim levels and as options. These AWD do not offer the use of 2WD and the Quadra Trac-1 does not offer a 2 speed transfer case and is not recommended by some for heavy towing. (See below) Information about the available all wheel drive drivetrains can be found at the link below. It is from the 2005 model but the basic information is the same http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/gra...okee-2005.html If you can give us some more information of what options you need and/or want, what you will be towing, etc. we can probably give you more specific information. I can send you more specific information about my '02 WJ or some pix just let me know. Welcome to the group! -- Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM) 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be. .. "Troy" <troy@ .> wrote in message news:ovqdnfSB0cuNN6PeRVn-2g@comcast.com... >I have a truck but I'm itchin to trade it in for a grand cherokee... I >know nothing about them though. > Well I know I want the v8 for towing and 4wd just in case my tj doesn't > make it for some reason. Anything anyone can suggest I watch out for? > I'm looking for a used one, not the new ones with ifs... I like the older > bubbly body style I've seen, its slightly newer. > > > Troy > |
Re: JGC
There have been a few body styles but it sounds like you mean the WJ Grand
Cherokee which was in production from 1999-2004 and which is what I drive. Many changes were made from the previous generation that improve the Grands off and on road performance. One big improvement was the relocation of the spare to below the floor in the back which opened up a lot of interior room. http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/jee...enav..12.Jeep* There are several engine and drivetrain combinations available over the years. You prefer the V-8 for its increased towing capacity. The available V-8 is a new 4.7 liter design that came in 2 versions. The standard version has 235hp/295ftlbs and the H.O. version boasts 265hp/330 ftlbs torque. Drive trains offer Select Trac with full and part time 4wd in 4-Hi and part time in 4-Lo and several all wheel drive versions offered in the different trim levels and as options. These AWD do not offer the use of 2WD and the Quadra Trac-1 does not offer a 2 speed transfer case and is not recommended by some for heavy towing. (See below) Information about the available all wheel drive drivetrains can be found at the link below. It is from the 2005 model but the basic information is the same http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/gra...okee-2005.html If you can give us some more information of what options you need and/or want, what you will be towing, etc. we can probably give you more specific information. I can send you more specific information about my '02 WJ or some pix just let me know. Welcome to the group! -- Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM) 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be. .. "Troy" <troy@ .> wrote in message news:ovqdnfSB0cuNN6PeRVn-2g@comcast.com... >I have a truck but I'm itchin to trade it in for a grand cherokee... I >know nothing about them though. > Well I know I want the v8 for towing and 4wd just in case my tj doesn't > make it for some reason. Anything anyone can suggest I watch out for? > I'm looking for a used one, not the new ones with ifs... I like the older > bubbly body style I've seen, its slightly newer. > > > Troy > |
Re: JGC
There have been a few body styles but it sounds like you mean the WJ Grand
Cherokee which was in production from 1999-2004 and which is what I drive. Many changes were made from the previous generation that improve the Grands off and on road performance. One big improvement was the relocation of the spare to below the floor in the back which opened up a lot of interior room. http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/jee...enav..12.Jeep* There are several engine and drivetrain combinations available over the years. You prefer the V-8 for its increased towing capacity. The available V-8 is a new 4.7 liter design that came in 2 versions. The standard version has 235hp/295ftlbs and the H.O. version boasts 265hp/330 ftlbs torque. Drive trains offer Select Trac with full and part time 4wd in 4-Hi and part time in 4-Lo and several all wheel drive versions offered in the different trim levels and as options. These AWD do not offer the use of 2WD and the Quadra Trac-1 does not offer a 2 speed transfer case and is not recommended by some for heavy towing. (See below) Information about the available all wheel drive drivetrains can be found at the link below. It is from the 2005 model but the basic information is the same http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/gra...okee-2005.html If you can give us some more information of what options you need and/or want, what you will be towing, etc. we can probably give you more specific information. I can send you more specific information about my '02 WJ or some pix just let me know. Welcome to the group! -- Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM) 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be. .. "Troy" <troy@ .> wrote in message news:ovqdnfSB0cuNN6PeRVn-2g@comcast.com... >I have a truck but I'm itchin to trade it in for a grand cherokee... I >know nothing about them though. > Well I know I want the v8 for towing and 4wd just in case my tj doesn't > make it for some reason. Anything anyone can suggest I watch out for? > I'm looking for a used one, not the new ones with ifs... I like the older > bubbly body style I've seen, its slightly newer. > > > Troy > |
Re: JGC
Wow thanks for the info, just what I was lookin for
Troy "Billy Ray" <Billy_Ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message news:c48c1$433ecc7b$d8449845$10935@FUSE.NET... > There have been a few body styles but it sounds like you mean the WJ Grand > Cherokee which was in production from 1999-2004 and which is what I drive. > Many changes were made from the previous generation that improve the > Grands off and on road performance. One big improvement was the > relocation of the spare to below the floor in the back which opened up a > lot of interior room. > http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/jee...enav..12.Jeep* > > There are several engine and drivetrain combinations available over the > years. You prefer the V-8 for its increased towing capacity. The > available V-8 is a new 4.7 liter design that came in 2 versions. The > standard version has 235hp/295ftlbs and the H.O. version boasts 265hp/330 > ftlbs torque. > > Drive trains offer Select Trac with full and part time 4wd in 4-Hi and > part time in 4-Lo and several all wheel drive versions offered in the > different trim levels and as options. These AWD do not offer the use of > 2WD and the Quadra Trac-1 does not offer a 2 speed transfer case and is > not recommended by some for heavy towing. (See below) > > Information about the available all wheel drive drivetrains can be found > at the link below. It is from the 2005 model but the basic information is > the same > http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/gra...okee-2005.html > > If you can give us some more information of what options you need and/or > want, what you will be towing, etc. we can probably give you more > specific information. > > I can send you more specific information about my '02 WJ or some pix just > let me know. > > Welcome to the group! > > -- > Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM) > 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic > Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be. > . > "Troy" <troy@ .> wrote in message > news:ovqdnfSB0cuNN6PeRVn-2g@comcast.com... >>I have a truck but I'm itchin to trade it in for a grand cherokee... I >>know nothing about them though. >> Well I know I want the v8 for towing and 4wd just in case my tj doesn't >> make it for some reason. Anything anyone can suggest I watch out for? >> I'm looking for a used one, not the new ones with ifs... I like the older >> bubbly body style I've seen, its slightly newer. >> >> >> Troy >> > > |
Re: JGC
Wow thanks for the info, just what I was lookin for
Troy "Billy Ray" <Billy_Ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message news:c48c1$433ecc7b$d8449845$10935@FUSE.NET... > There have been a few body styles but it sounds like you mean the WJ Grand > Cherokee which was in production from 1999-2004 and which is what I drive. > Many changes were made from the previous generation that improve the > Grands off and on road performance. One big improvement was the > relocation of the spare to below the floor in the back which opened up a > lot of interior room. > http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/jee...enav..12.Jeep* > > There are several engine and drivetrain combinations available over the > years. You prefer the V-8 for its increased towing capacity. The > available V-8 is a new 4.7 liter design that came in 2 versions. The > standard version has 235hp/295ftlbs and the H.O. version boasts 265hp/330 > ftlbs torque. > > Drive trains offer Select Trac with full and part time 4wd in 4-Hi and > part time in 4-Lo and several all wheel drive versions offered in the > different trim levels and as options. These AWD do not offer the use of > 2WD and the Quadra Trac-1 does not offer a 2 speed transfer case and is > not recommended by some for heavy towing. (See below) > > Information about the available all wheel drive drivetrains can be found > at the link below. It is from the 2005 model but the basic information is > the same > http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/gra...okee-2005.html > > If you can give us some more information of what options you need and/or > want, what you will be towing, etc. we can probably give you more > specific information. > > I can send you more specific information about my '02 WJ or some pix just > let me know. > > Welcome to the group! > > -- > Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM) > 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic > Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be. > . > "Troy" <troy@ .> wrote in message > news:ovqdnfSB0cuNN6PeRVn-2g@comcast.com... >>I have a truck but I'm itchin to trade it in for a grand cherokee... I >>know nothing about them though. >> Well I know I want the v8 for towing and 4wd just in case my tj doesn't >> make it for some reason. Anything anyone can suggest I watch out for? >> I'm looking for a used one, not the new ones with ifs... I like the older >> bubbly body style I've seen, its slightly newer. >> >> >> Troy >> > > |
Re: JGC
Wow thanks for the info, just what I was lookin for
Troy "Billy Ray" <Billy_Ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message news:c48c1$433ecc7b$d8449845$10935@FUSE.NET... > There have been a few body styles but it sounds like you mean the WJ Grand > Cherokee which was in production from 1999-2004 and which is what I drive. > Many changes were made from the previous generation that improve the > Grands off and on road performance. One big improvement was the > relocation of the spare to below the floor in the back which opened up a > lot of interior room. > http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/jee...enav..12.Jeep* > > There are several engine and drivetrain combinations available over the > years. You prefer the V-8 for its increased towing capacity. The > available V-8 is a new 4.7 liter design that came in 2 versions. The > standard version has 235hp/295ftlbs and the H.O. version boasts 265hp/330 > ftlbs torque. > > Drive trains offer Select Trac with full and part time 4wd in 4-Hi and > part time in 4-Lo and several all wheel drive versions offered in the > different trim levels and as options. These AWD do not offer the use of > 2WD and the Quadra Trac-1 does not offer a 2 speed transfer case and is > not recommended by some for heavy towing. (See below) > > Information about the available all wheel drive drivetrains can be found > at the link below. It is from the 2005 model but the basic information is > the same > http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/gra...okee-2005.html > > If you can give us some more information of what options you need and/or > want, what you will be towing, etc. we can probably give you more > specific information. > > I can send you more specific information about my '02 WJ or some pix just > let me know. > > Welcome to the group! > > -- > Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM) > 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic > Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be. > . > "Troy" <troy@ .> wrote in message > news:ovqdnfSB0cuNN6PeRVn-2g@comcast.com... >>I have a truck but I'm itchin to trade it in for a grand cherokee... I >>know nothing about them though. >> Well I know I want the v8 for towing and 4wd just in case my tj doesn't >> make it for some reason. Anything anyone can suggest I watch out for? >> I'm looking for a used one, not the new ones with ifs... I like the older >> bubbly body style I've seen, its slightly newer. >> >> >> Troy >> > > |
Re: JGC
My model preference would be for a 2002 WJ Laredo or Sport with Select Trac
(and posi-traction if you can find it), the factory class III towing package (as opposed to an add-on hitch) which includes the 3.73 axle and tranny cooler. The class IV hitch, if you need it, also includes a power steering fluid cooler. My V-8 engine preference would be for the standard 4.7L V-8. You will find that most of your driving is done at 2000 rpm or less. (At 2000 rpm my WJ runs at 71 mph on the highway) The hp and torque figures at 2000 rpm are as follows: standard 4.7L 107/207 and 4.7L HO 115/192. As you can see there is not much difference at normal engine speeds. There are a lot of options available for these 2 models (see differences below) and if you want/need a Hoo Ha or Bling Bling much of it is standard equipment one the Limited or Overland versions. If you plan to pull your camper off-road there is the 'Up Country' option that gives you taller springs for about a inch extra ground clearance or aftermarket coil spacers can also be used, lifts up to 2 inches do not require new shock absorbers Probably all the information you are wondering about can be found at WJJeeps.com. Let me know if something more comes to mind. http://www.wjjeeps.com/differences.htm Allpar.com WJ Review http://www.allpar.com/reviews/2000/j...-cherokee.html www.WJJeeps.com Overview http://www.wjjeeps.com/dimensions.htm 4WD Systems http://www.wjjeeps.com/tcases.htm Engines http://www.wjjeeps.com/engine.htm WJ Towing Data http://www.wjjeeps.com/engine.htm Skid Plates http://www.wjjeeps.com/upcountry.htm#FRSKID -- Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM) 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be. .. "Troy" <troy@ .> wrote in message news:2qedndkjeJYSRKPeRVn-hQ@comcast.com... > Wow thanks for the info, just what I was lookin for > > Troy > > "Billy Ray" <Billy_Ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message > news:c48c1$433ecc7b$d8449845$10935@FUSE.NET... >> There have been a few body styles but it sounds like you mean the WJ >> Grand Cherokee which was in production from 1999-2004 and which is what I >> drive. Many changes were made from the previous generation that improve >> the Grands off and on road performance. One big improvement was the >> relocation of the spare to below the floor in the back which opened up a >> lot of interior room. >> http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/jee...enav..12.Jeep* >> >> There are several engine and drivetrain combinations available over the >> years. You prefer the V-8 for its increased towing capacity. The >> available V-8 is a new 4.7 liter design that came in 2 versions. The >> standard version has 235hp/295ftlbs and the H.O. version boasts 265hp/330 >> ftlbs torque. >> >> Drive trains offer Select Trac with full and part time 4wd in 4-Hi and >> part time in 4-Lo and several all wheel drive versions offered in the >> different trim levels and as options. These AWD do not offer the use of >> 2WD and the Quadra Trac-1 does not offer a 2 speed transfer case and is >> not recommended by some for heavy towing. (See below) >> >> Information about the available all wheel drive drivetrains can be found >> at the link below. It is from the 2005 model but the basic information >> is the same >> http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/gra...okee-2005.html >> >> If you can give us some more information of what options you need and/or >> want, what you will be towing, etc. we can probably give you more >> specific information. >> >> I can send you more specific information about my '02 WJ or some pix just >> let me know. >> >> Welcome to the group! >> >> -- >> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM) >> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic >> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be. >> . >> "Troy" <troy@ .> wrote in message >> news:ovqdnfSB0cuNN6PeRVn-2g@comcast.com... >>>I have a truck but I'm itchin to trade it in for a grand cherokee... I >>>know nothing about them though. >>> Well I know I want the v8 for towing and 4wd just in case my tj doesn't >>> make it for some reason. Anything anyone can suggest I watch out for? >>> I'm looking for a used one, not the new ones with ifs... I like the >>> older bubbly body style I've seen, its slightly newer. >>> >>> >>> Troy >>> >> >> > > |
Re: JGC
My model preference would be for a 2002 WJ Laredo or Sport with Select Trac
(and posi-traction if you can find it), the factory class III towing package (as opposed to an add-on hitch) which includes the 3.73 axle and tranny cooler. The class IV hitch, if you need it, also includes a power steering fluid cooler. My V-8 engine preference would be for the standard 4.7L V-8. You will find that most of your driving is done at 2000 rpm or less. (At 2000 rpm my WJ runs at 71 mph on the highway) The hp and torque figures at 2000 rpm are as follows: standard 4.7L 107/207 and 4.7L HO 115/192. As you can see there is not much difference at normal engine speeds. There are a lot of options available for these 2 models (see differences below) and if you want/need a Hoo Ha or Bling Bling much of it is standard equipment one the Limited or Overland versions. If you plan to pull your camper off-road there is the 'Up Country' option that gives you taller springs for about a inch extra ground clearance or aftermarket coil spacers can also be used, lifts up to 2 inches do not require new shock absorbers Probably all the information you are wondering about can be found at WJJeeps.com. Let me know if something more comes to mind. http://www.wjjeeps.com/differences.htm Allpar.com WJ Review http://www.allpar.com/reviews/2000/j...-cherokee.html www.WJJeeps.com Overview http://www.wjjeeps.com/dimensions.htm 4WD Systems http://www.wjjeeps.com/tcases.htm Engines http://www.wjjeeps.com/engine.htm WJ Towing Data http://www.wjjeeps.com/engine.htm Skid Plates http://www.wjjeeps.com/upcountry.htm#FRSKID -- Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM) 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be. .. "Troy" <troy@ .> wrote in message news:2qedndkjeJYSRKPeRVn-hQ@comcast.com... > Wow thanks for the info, just what I was lookin for > > Troy > > "Billy Ray" <Billy_Ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message > news:c48c1$433ecc7b$d8449845$10935@FUSE.NET... >> There have been a few body styles but it sounds like you mean the WJ >> Grand Cherokee which was in production from 1999-2004 and which is what I >> drive. Many changes were made from the previous generation that improve >> the Grands off and on road performance. One big improvement was the >> relocation of the spare to below the floor in the back which opened up a >> lot of interior room. >> http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/jee...enav..12.Jeep* >> >> There are several engine and drivetrain combinations available over the >> years. You prefer the V-8 for its increased towing capacity. The >> available V-8 is a new 4.7 liter design that came in 2 versions. The >> standard version has 235hp/295ftlbs and the H.O. version boasts 265hp/330 >> ftlbs torque. >> >> Drive trains offer Select Trac with full and part time 4wd in 4-Hi and >> part time in 4-Lo and several all wheel drive versions offered in the >> different trim levels and as options. These AWD do not offer the use of >> 2WD and the Quadra Trac-1 does not offer a 2 speed transfer case and is >> not recommended by some for heavy towing. (See below) >> >> Information about the available all wheel drive drivetrains can be found >> at the link below. It is from the 2005 model but the basic information >> is the same >> http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/gra...okee-2005.html >> >> If you can give us some more information of what options you need and/or >> want, what you will be towing, etc. we can probably give you more >> specific information. >> >> I can send you more specific information about my '02 WJ or some pix just >> let me know. >> >> Welcome to the group! >> >> -- >> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM) >> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic >> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be. >> . >> "Troy" <troy@ .> wrote in message >> news:ovqdnfSB0cuNN6PeRVn-2g@comcast.com... >>>I have a truck but I'm itchin to trade it in for a grand cherokee... I >>>know nothing about them though. >>> Well I know I want the v8 for towing and 4wd just in case my tj doesn't >>> make it for some reason. Anything anyone can suggest I watch out for? >>> I'm looking for a used one, not the new ones with ifs... I like the >>> older bubbly body style I've seen, its slightly newer. >>> >>> >>> Troy >>> >> >> > > |
Re: JGC
My model preference would be for a 2002 WJ Laredo or Sport with Select Trac
(and posi-traction if you can find it), the factory class III towing package (as opposed to an add-on hitch) which includes the 3.73 axle and tranny cooler. The class IV hitch, if you need it, also includes a power steering fluid cooler. My V-8 engine preference would be for the standard 4.7L V-8. You will find that most of your driving is done at 2000 rpm or less. (At 2000 rpm my WJ runs at 71 mph on the highway) The hp and torque figures at 2000 rpm are as follows: standard 4.7L 107/207 and 4.7L HO 115/192. As you can see there is not much difference at normal engine speeds. There are a lot of options available for these 2 models (see differences below) and if you want/need a Hoo Ha or Bling Bling much of it is standard equipment one the Limited or Overland versions. If you plan to pull your camper off-road there is the 'Up Country' option that gives you taller springs for about a inch extra ground clearance or aftermarket coil spacers can also be used, lifts up to 2 inches do not require new shock absorbers Probably all the information you are wondering about can be found at WJJeeps.com. Let me know if something more comes to mind. http://www.wjjeeps.com/differences.htm Allpar.com WJ Review http://www.allpar.com/reviews/2000/j...-cherokee.html www.WJJeeps.com Overview http://www.wjjeeps.com/dimensions.htm 4WD Systems http://www.wjjeeps.com/tcases.htm Engines http://www.wjjeeps.com/engine.htm WJ Towing Data http://www.wjjeeps.com/engine.htm Skid Plates http://www.wjjeeps.com/upcountry.htm#FRSKID -- Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM) 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be. .. "Troy" <troy@ .> wrote in message news:2qedndkjeJYSRKPeRVn-hQ@comcast.com... > Wow thanks for the info, just what I was lookin for > > Troy > > "Billy Ray" <Billy_Ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message > news:c48c1$433ecc7b$d8449845$10935@FUSE.NET... >> There have been a few body styles but it sounds like you mean the WJ >> Grand Cherokee which was in production from 1999-2004 and which is what I >> drive. Many changes were made from the previous generation that improve >> the Grands off and on road performance. One big improvement was the >> relocation of the spare to below the floor in the back which opened up a >> lot of interior room. >> http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/jee...enav..12.Jeep* >> >> There are several engine and drivetrain combinations available over the >> years. You prefer the V-8 for its increased towing capacity. The >> available V-8 is a new 4.7 liter design that came in 2 versions. The >> standard version has 235hp/295ftlbs and the H.O. version boasts 265hp/330 >> ftlbs torque. >> >> Drive trains offer Select Trac with full and part time 4wd in 4-Hi and >> part time in 4-Lo and several all wheel drive versions offered in the >> different trim levels and as options. These AWD do not offer the use of >> 2WD and the Quadra Trac-1 does not offer a 2 speed transfer case and is >> not recommended by some for heavy towing. (See below) >> >> Information about the available all wheel drive drivetrains can be found >> at the link below. It is from the 2005 model but the basic information >> is the same >> http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/gra...okee-2005.html >> >> If you can give us some more information of what options you need and/or >> want, what you will be towing, etc. we can probably give you more >> specific information. >> >> I can send you more specific information about my '02 WJ or some pix just >> let me know. >> >> Welcome to the group! >> >> -- >> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM) >> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic >> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be. >> . >> "Troy" <troy@ .> wrote in message >> news:ovqdnfSB0cuNN6PeRVn-2g@comcast.com... >>>I have a truck but I'm itchin to trade it in for a grand cherokee... I >>>know nothing about them though. >>> Well I know I want the v8 for towing and 4wd just in case my tj doesn't >>> make it for some reason. Anything anyone can suggest I watch out for? >>> I'm looking for a used one, not the new ones with ifs... I like the >>> older bubbly body style I've seen, its slightly newer. >>> >>> >>> Troy >>> >> >> > > |
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