Re: idle idle idle sputter idle
 

Well, I would never say never, but it's not really likely. :-)


In message <40CA3A9E.3C90A9A6@sympatico.ca>, "Mike Romain" wrote:

>That happens on my mechanical pump system sometimes just before all heck
>breaks loose. When my rpm come up, so does the pump flow and it will
>push by the blockages.
>
>I suppose the power could drop to the electric pump at low rpm causing
>the same effect maybe?
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
>bllsht wrote:
>>
>> I guess anything's possible, but it sure doesn't make much sense that a plugged
>> filter would be more evident at idle than on acceleration...
>>
>> I'm bettin' they haven't found it yet. Sorry. :-)
>>
>> In message <q1kyc.31566$%T.10067@okepread05>, "DougW" wrote:
>>
>> >Yep. My st00pid idle problem got the better of me so off
>> >went the ZJ to a local wrencher (Sooner Auto). Nice people
>> >with a lot of experience. They checked the injectors, compression,
>> >fremble valves, and all were within spec. Biggest problem was my
>> >fuel filter was clogged .....mumble.... I could have checked that
>> >myself but since acceleration was fine it just didn't cross the
>> >ol brainpan. Heck, I even have a spare in the garage. Must have
>> >gotten a tank of crapoline or something is growing in the fuel tank.
>> >
>> >(not sure, but does a gas tank grow algae like a diesel tank does?)
>> >
>> >Anyhow, they will run solvent through the rail. The stuff you
>> >can't put in a tank cause it will dissolve certain types of plastic.
>> >Hope that fixes the problem cause I'm running out of things to do.
>> >
>> >
>> >.... and being _super smart_ today I decided to ride my 10speed
>> >back home. Got here and it felt like I had a horse sitting on
>> >my chest. :( .getting older sucketh. I seriously need to get
>> >more aerobic exercise, lifting weights alone isn't cutting it.
>> >Strange thing is I can hike for miles with no problem but the
>> >old bike beat the snot out of me.

Re: idle idle idle sputter idle
 

In message <Reryc.35509$%T.6369@okepread05>, "DougW" wrote:

>bllsht did pass the time by typing:
>> I guess anything's possible, but it sure doesn't make much sense that a
>> plugged filter would be more evident at idle than on acceleration...
>>
>> I'm bettin' they haven't found it yet. Sorry. :-)
>
>That was my thought as well, but it is running a lot better now.
>They also ran heavy duty decarbonizing/cleaning stuff down the injectors
>to clean out carbon buildup. That may well be the cause of my rough idle.

That sounds more like it. Dirty injectors would be much more likely to cause
idle problems than a plugged filter. If you couldn't get enough fuel through a
filter for proper idle, it's not likely you'll be able to do it on acceleration.

It would be interesting to see what the fuel trim is doing. Why don't you go
buy a scanner and let us know what it looks like? :-)

Actually, I don't know if the aftermarket OBD I scanners will show you this.
The OBD II ones will.

>The ZJ was running way rich due to a cracked exhaust header and weak O2
>sensor. Oddly though when I had the exhaust header off the valves looked
>real clean, only the intake rail had some oil/crud buildup which is your
>usual CCV caused buildup.
>
>Even if it didn't fix the stumble it sure brought back some noticeable
>power. For right now it idles quite a bit smoother. Not perfect, still
>has some vibrations, but no where near what it was doing.
>
>On the bright side they did fix a few buzzes under the hood, a hose
>that was rubbing, and spotted an interference between the ABS pump
>and my supercharger. That last one I'm afraid is due to a busted
>motormount isolator. Jeep only sells the damn things as a whole part
>and there are no aftermarket parts. :( Oh well, it's a Jeep thing
>and "they" understand.
>
>Gonna have to let the motor cool down and put a prybar on the mounts.
>Should be easy to tell and fairly easy to fix. Wonder if I could mill
>a new mount out of poly? Or more precisely have the local plastics
>shop do it for me. Its only a glorified rubber donut.
>
>> "DougW" wrote:
>>
>>> Yep. My st00pid idle problem got the better of me so off
>>> went the ZJ to a local wrencher (Sooner Auto). Nice people
>>> with a lot of experience. They checked the injectors, compression,
>>> fremble valves, and all were within spec. Biggest problem was my
>>> fuel filter was clogged .....mumble.... I could have checked that
>>> myself but since acceleration was fine it just didn't cross the
>>> ol brainpan. Heck, I even have a spare in the garage. Must have
>>> gotten a tank of crapoline or something is growing in the fuel tank.
>>>
>>> (not sure, but does a gas tank grow algae like a diesel tank does?)
>>>
>>> Anyhow, they will run solvent through the rail. The stuff you
>>> can't put in a tank cause it will dissolve certain types of plastic.
>>> Hope that fixes the problem cause I'm running out of things to do.
>>>
>>>
>>> .... and being _super smart_ today I decided to ride my 10speed
>>> back home. Got here and it felt like I had a horse sitting on
>>> my chest. :( .getting older sucketh. I seriously need to get
>>> more aerobic exercise, lifting weights alone isn't cutting it.
>>> Strange thing is I can hike for miles with no problem but the
>>> old bike beat the snot out of me.
>
>

Re: idle idle idle sputter idle
 

In message <Reryc.35509$%T.6369@okepread05>, "DougW" wrote:

>bllsht did pass the time by typing:
>> I guess anything's possible, but it sure doesn't make much sense that a
>> plugged filter would be more evident at idle than on acceleration...
>>
>> I'm bettin' they haven't found it yet. Sorry. :-)
>
>That was my thought as well, but it is running a lot better now.
>They also ran heavy duty decarbonizing/cleaning stuff down the injectors
>to clean out carbon buildup. That may well be the cause of my rough idle.

That sounds more like it. Dirty injectors would be much more likely to cause
idle problems than a plugged filter. If you couldn't get enough fuel through a
filter for proper idle, it's not likely you'll be able to do it on acceleration.

It would be interesting to see what the fuel trim is doing. Why don't you go
buy a scanner and let us know what it looks like? :-)

Actually, I don't know if the aftermarket OBD I scanners will show you this.
The OBD II ones will.

>The ZJ was running way rich due to a cracked exhaust header and weak O2
>sensor. Oddly though when I had the exhaust header off the valves looked
>real clean, only the intake rail had some oil/crud buildup which is your
>usual CCV caused buildup.
>
>Even if it didn't fix the stumble it sure brought back some noticeable
>power. For right now it idles quite a bit smoother. Not perfect, still
>has some vibrations, but no where near what it was doing.
>
>On the bright side they did fix a few buzzes under the hood, a hose
>that was rubbing, and spotted an interference between the ABS pump
>and my supercharger. That last one I'm afraid is due to a busted
>motormount isolator. Jeep only sells the damn things as a whole part
>and there are no aftermarket parts. :( Oh well, it's a Jeep thing
>and "they" understand.
>
>Gonna have to let the motor cool down and put a prybar on the mounts.
>Should be easy to tell and fairly easy to fix. Wonder if I could mill
>a new mount out of poly? Or more precisely have the local plastics
>shop do it for me. Its only a glorified rubber donut.
>
>> "DougW" wrote:
>>
>>> Yep. My st00pid idle problem got the better of me so off
>>> went the ZJ to a local wrencher (Sooner Auto). Nice people
>>> with a lot of experience. They checked the injectors, compression,
>>> fremble valves, and all were within spec. Biggest problem was my
>>> fuel filter was clogged .....mumble.... I could have checked that
>>> myself but since acceleration was fine it just didn't cross the
>>> ol brainpan. Heck, I even have a spare in the garage. Must have
>>> gotten a tank of crapoline or something is growing in the fuel tank.
>>>
>>> (not sure, but does a gas tank grow algae like a diesel tank does?)
>>>
>>> Anyhow, they will run solvent through the rail. The stuff you
>>> can't put in a tank cause it will dissolve certain types of plastic.
>>> Hope that fixes the problem cause I'm running out of things to do.
>>>
>>>
>>> .... and being _super smart_ today I decided to ride my 10speed
>>> back home. Got here and it felt like I had a horse sitting on
>>> my chest. :( .getting older sucketh. I seriously need to get
>>> more aerobic exercise, lifting weights alone isn't cutting it.
>>> Strange thing is I can hike for miles with no problem but the
>>> old bike beat the snot out of me.
>
>

Re: idle idle idle sputter idle
 

In message <Reryc.35509$%T.6369@okepread05>, "DougW" wrote:

>bllsht did pass the time by typing:
>> I guess anything's possible, but it sure doesn't make much sense that a
>> plugged filter would be more evident at idle than on acceleration...
>>
>> I'm bettin' they haven't found it yet. Sorry. :-)
>
>That was my thought as well, but it is running a lot better now.
>They also ran heavy duty decarbonizing/cleaning stuff down the injectors
>to clean out carbon buildup. That may well be the cause of my rough idle.

That sounds more like it. Dirty injectors would be much more likely to cause
idle problems than a plugged filter. If you couldn't get enough fuel through a
filter for proper idle, it's not likely you'll be able to do it on acceleration.

It would be interesting to see what the fuel trim is doing. Why don't you go
buy a scanner and let us know what it looks like? :-)

Actually, I don't know if the aftermarket OBD I scanners will show you this.
The OBD II ones will.

>The ZJ was running way rich due to a cracked exhaust header and weak O2
>sensor. Oddly though when I had the exhaust header off the valves looked
>real clean, only the intake rail had some oil/crud buildup which is your
>usual CCV caused buildup.
>
>Even if it didn't fix the stumble it sure brought back some noticeable
>power. For right now it idles quite a bit smoother. Not perfect, still
>has some vibrations, but no where near what it was doing.
>
>On the bright side they did fix a few buzzes under the hood, a hose
>that was rubbing, and spotted an interference between the ABS pump
>and my supercharger. That last one I'm afraid is due to a busted
>motormount isolator. Jeep only sells the damn things as a whole part
>and there are no aftermarket parts. :( Oh well, it's a Jeep thing
>and "they" understand.
>
>Gonna have to let the motor cool down and put a prybar on the mounts.
>Should be easy to tell and fairly easy to fix. Wonder if I could mill
>a new mount out of poly? Or more precisely have the local plastics
>shop do it for me. Its only a glorified rubber donut.
>
>> "DougW" wrote:
>>
>>> Yep. My st00pid idle problem got the better of me so off
>>> went the ZJ to a local wrencher (Sooner Auto). Nice people
>>> with a lot of experience. They checked the injectors, compression,
>>> fremble valves, and all were within spec. Biggest problem was my
>>> fuel filter was clogged .....mumble.... I could have checked that
>>> myself but since acceleration was fine it just didn't cross the
>>> ol brainpan. Heck, I even have a spare in the garage. Must have
>>> gotten a tank of crapoline or something is growing in the fuel tank.
>>>
>>> (not sure, but does a gas tank grow algae like a diesel tank does?)
>>>
>>> Anyhow, they will run solvent through the rail. The stuff you
>>> can't put in a tank cause it will dissolve certain types of plastic.
>>> Hope that fixes the problem cause I'm running out of things to do.
>>>
>>>
>>> .... and being _super smart_ today I decided to ride my 10speed
>>> back home. Got here and it felt like I had a horse sitting on
>>> my chest. :( .getting older sucketh. I seriously need to get
>>> more aerobic exercise, lifting weights alone isn't cutting it.
>>> Strange thing is I can hike for miles with no problem but the
>>> old bike beat the snot out of me.
>
>

Re: idle idle idle sputter idle
 

In message <Reryc.35509$%T.6369@okepread05>, "DougW" wrote:

>bllsht did pass the time by typing:
>> I guess anything's possible, but it sure doesn't make much sense that a
>> plugged filter would be more evident at idle than on acceleration...
>>
>> I'm bettin' they haven't found it yet. Sorry. :-)
>
>That was my thought as well, but it is running a lot better now.
>They also ran heavy duty decarbonizing/cleaning stuff down the injectors
>to clean out carbon buildup. That may well be the cause of my rough idle.

That sounds more like it. Dirty injectors would be much more likely to cause
idle problems than a plugged filter. If you couldn't get enough fuel through a
filter for proper idle, it's not likely you'll be able to do it on acceleration.

It would be interesting to see what the fuel trim is doing. Why don't you go
buy a scanner and let us know what it looks like? :-)

Actually, I don't know if the aftermarket OBD I scanners will show you this.
The OBD II ones will.

>The ZJ was running way rich due to a cracked exhaust header and weak O2
>sensor. Oddly though when I had the exhaust header off the valves looked
>real clean, only the intake rail had some oil/crud buildup which is your
>usual CCV caused buildup.
>
>Even if it didn't fix the stumble it sure brought back some noticeable
>power. For right now it idles quite a bit smoother. Not perfect, still
>has some vibrations, but no where near what it was doing.
>
>On the bright side they did fix a few buzzes under the hood, a hose
>that was rubbing, and spotted an interference between the ABS pump
>and my supercharger. That last one I'm afraid is due to a busted
>motormount isolator. Jeep only sells the damn things as a whole part
>and there are no aftermarket parts. :( Oh well, it's a Jeep thing
>and "they" understand.
>
>Gonna have to let the motor cool down and put a prybar on the mounts.
>Should be easy to tell and fairly easy to fix. Wonder if I could mill
>a new mount out of poly? Or more precisely have the local plastics
>shop do it for me. Its only a glorified rubber donut.
>
>> "DougW" wrote:
>>
>>> Yep. My st00pid idle problem got the better of me so off
>>> went the ZJ to a local wrencher (Sooner Auto). Nice people
>>> with a lot of experience. They checked the injectors, compression,
>>> fremble valves, and all were within spec. Biggest problem was my
>>> fuel filter was clogged .....mumble.... I could have checked that
>>> myself but since acceleration was fine it just didn't cross the
>>> ol brainpan. Heck, I even have a spare in the garage. Must have
>>> gotten a tank of crapoline or something is growing in the fuel tank.
>>>
>>> (not sure, but does a gas tank grow algae like a diesel tank does?)
>>>
>>> Anyhow, they will run solvent through the rail. The stuff you
>>> can't put in a tank cause it will dissolve certain types of plastic.
>>> Hope that fixes the problem cause I'm running out of things to do.
>>>
>>>
>>> .... and being _super smart_ today I decided to ride my 10speed
>>> back home. Got here and it felt like I had a horse sitting on
>>> my chest. :( .getting older sucketh. I seriously need to get
>>> more aerobic exercise, lifting weights alone isn't cutting it.
>>> Strange thing is I can hike for miles with no problem but the
>>> old bike beat the snot out of me.
>
>

Re: idle idle idle sputter idle
 

bllsht did pass the time by typing:
> In message <Reryc.35509$%T.6369@okepread05>, "DougW" wrote:
>
>> bllsht did pass the time by typing:
>>> I guess anything's possible, but it sure doesn't make much sense that a
>>> plugged filter would be more evident at idle than on acceleration...
>>>
>>> I'm bettin' they haven't found it yet. Sorry. :-)
>>
>> That was my thought as well, but it is running a lot better now.
>> They also ran heavy duty decarbonizing/cleaning stuff down the injectors
>> to clean out carbon buildup. That may well be the cause of my rough idle.
>
> That sounds more like it. Dirty injectors would be much more likely to cause
> idle problems than a plugged filter. If you couldn't get enough fuel through
> a filter for proper idle, it's not likely you'll be able to do it on
> acceleration.

That was the primary reason for taking it in. I just don't have anything to do
that type of work even though the Strap^WSnapOn guy will sell one to me
"For a small phenomenal fee." :]

> It would be interesting to see what the fuel trim is doing. Why don't you go
> buy a scanner and let us know what it looks like? :-)

Been tempted but the OBD I types are fairly expensive compared to replacing a
few parts here and there. Most of the electrics are easy enough to test with my
lab gear (Fluke 87 Multimeter, Tektronics TDS2002 O-scope, etc) Then again I've
probably got more money in electronics test gear than a scanner would cost. :)

> Actually, I don't know if the aftermarket OBD I scanners will show you this.
> The OBD II ones will.

Dunno either, I'll drop by the dealership and take a gander at the service book.
Those OBD II scanners are all over the place, I've even seen shareware versions
for a laptop and PDAs.

--
DougW

Re: idle idle idle sputter idle
 

bllsht did pass the time by typing:
> In message <Reryc.35509$%T.6369@okepread05>, "DougW" wrote:
>
>> bllsht did pass the time by typing:
>>> I guess anything's possible, but it sure doesn't make much sense that a
>>> plugged filter would be more evident at idle than on acceleration...
>>>
>>> I'm bettin' they haven't found it yet. Sorry. :-)
>>
>> That was my thought as well, but it is running a lot better now.
>> They also ran heavy duty decarbonizing/cleaning stuff down the injectors
>> to clean out carbon buildup. That may well be the cause of my rough idle.
>
> That sounds more like it. Dirty injectors would be much more likely to cause
> idle problems than a plugged filter. If you couldn't get enough fuel through
> a filter for proper idle, it's not likely you'll be able to do it on
> acceleration.

That was the primary reason for taking it in. I just don't have anything to do
that type of work even though the Strap^WSnapOn guy will sell one to me
"For a small phenomenal fee." :]

> It would be interesting to see what the fuel trim is doing. Why don't you go
> buy a scanner and let us know what it looks like? :-)

Been tempted but the OBD I types are fairly expensive compared to replacing a
few parts here and there. Most of the electrics are easy enough to test with my
lab gear (Fluke 87 Multimeter, Tektronics TDS2002 O-scope, etc) Then again I've
probably got more money in electronics test gear than a scanner would cost. :)

> Actually, I don't know if the aftermarket OBD I scanners will show you this.
> The OBD II ones will.

Dunno either, I'll drop by the dealership and take a gander at the service book.
Those OBD II scanners are all over the place, I've even seen shareware versions
for a laptop and PDAs.

--
DougW

Re: idle idle idle sputter idle
 

bllsht did pass the time by typing:
> In message <Reryc.35509$%T.6369@okepread05>, "DougW" wrote:
>
>> bllsht did pass the time by typing:
>>> I guess anything's possible, but it sure doesn't make much sense that a
>>> plugged filter would be more evident at idle than on acceleration...
>>>
>>> I'm bettin' they haven't found it yet. Sorry. :-)
>>
>> That was my thought as well, but it is running a lot better now.
>> They also ran heavy duty decarbonizing/cleaning stuff down the injectors
>> to clean out carbon buildup. That may well be the cause of my rough idle.
>
> That sounds more like it. Dirty injectors would be much more likely to cause
> idle problems than a plugged filter. If you couldn't get enough fuel through
> a filter for proper idle, it's not likely you'll be able to do it on
> acceleration.

That was the primary reason for taking it in. I just don't have anything to do
that type of work even though the Strap^WSnapOn guy will sell one to me
"For a small phenomenal fee." :]

> It would be interesting to see what the fuel trim is doing. Why don't you go
> buy a scanner and let us know what it looks like? :-)

Been tempted but the OBD I types are fairly expensive compared to replacing a
few parts here and there. Most of the electrics are easy enough to test with my
lab gear (Fluke 87 Multimeter, Tektronics TDS2002 O-scope, etc) Then again I've
probably got more money in electronics test gear than a scanner would cost. :)

> Actually, I don't know if the aftermarket OBD I scanners will show you this.
> The OBD II ones will.

Dunno either, I'll drop by the dealership and take a gander at the service book.
Those OBD II scanners are all over the place, I've even seen shareware versions
for a laptop and PDAs.

--
DougW

Re: idle idle idle sputter idle
 

bllsht did pass the time by typing:
> In message <Reryc.35509$%T.6369@okepread05>, "DougW" wrote:
>
>> bllsht did pass the time by typing:
>>> I guess anything's possible, but it sure doesn't make much sense that a
>>> plugged filter would be more evident at idle than on acceleration...
>>>
>>> I'm bettin' they haven't found it yet. Sorry. :-)
>>
>> That was my thought as well, but it is running a lot better now.
>> They also ran heavy duty decarbonizing/cleaning stuff down the injectors
>> to clean out carbon buildup. That may well be the cause of my rough idle.
>
> That sounds more like it. Dirty injectors would be much more likely to cause
> idle problems than a plugged filter. If you couldn't get enough fuel through
> a filter for proper idle, it's not likely you'll be able to do it on
> acceleration.

That was the primary reason for taking it in. I just don't have anything to do
that type of work even though the Strap^WSnapOn guy will sell one to me
"For a small phenomenal fee." :]

> It would be interesting to see what the fuel trim is doing. Why don't you go
> buy a scanner and let us know what it looks like? :-)

Been tempted but the OBD I types are fairly expensive compared to replacing a
few parts here and there. Most of the electrics are easy enough to test with my
lab gear (Fluke 87 Multimeter, Tektronics TDS2002 O-scope, etc) Then again I've
probably got more money in electronics test gear than a scanner would cost. :)

> Actually, I don't know if the aftermarket OBD I scanners will show you this.
> The OBD II ones will.

Dunno either, I'll drop by the dealership and take a gander at the service book.
Those OBD II scanners are all over the place, I've even seen shareware versions
for a laptop and PDAs.

--
DougW