This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

I posted last week about my 97 Wrangler 4.0 AT not starting and I'm still
trouble-shooting. My current question is "what controls the fuel pump's
pressurization cycle?" On my jeep, the fuel pump is running constantly
when the ignition is in the "on" position, rather than running for a
couple of seconds to pressurize the rail. I think that if I knew what
controlled that, I might have a clue on finding my gremlin. There is no
juice on the distributor side of the coil. There is fuel pressure at the
rail. So far, I have ruled out the crank position sensor, bad ground, the
entire throttle body with all attached electrical gizmos, and I have
cleaned every electrical connection that I can readily get to under the
hood... My plan of action from here is the coil, a short somewhere in the
harness, and the PCM. Any help is appreciated.

--
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Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:
> I posted last week about my 97 Wrangler 4.0 AT not starting and I'm still
> trouble-shooting. My current question is "what controls the fuel pump's
> pressurization cycle?" On my jeep, the fuel pump is running constantly
> when the ignition is in the "on" position, rather than running for a
> couple of seconds to pressurize the rail. I think that if I knew what
> controlled that, I might have a clue on finding my gremlin. There is no
> juice on the distributor side of the coil. There is fuel pressure at the
> rail. So far, I have ruled out the crank position sensor, bad ground, the
> entire throttle body with all attached electrical gizmos, and I have
> cleaned every electrical connection that I can readily get to under the
> hood... My plan of action from here is the coil, a short somewhere in the
> harness, and the PCM. Any help is appreciated.

The pump is controlled by the computer. It should run for about two
seconds then shut off. It starts running again when the engine fires.
Sticky relay? In my Jeep it's the relay center by the battery. About a 9$
part (but the same as the fog or AC relay so they can be swapped)

If the engine doesn't crank (computer doesn't sense the motor has started)
within about two cranks it kills the engine by removing power from the ASD
relay (which depowers the coil and should also kill the fuel pump) Can't
say for certain as your wiring is different from mine.

What your describing could very well be a coil. My ZJ did that last time
the coil went south.. And even after I ohmed out the coil (which tested "ok")
the coil was still bad inside and would not throw enough of a spark.

They make a spark tester.
http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TTW409.html

New coil is cheap enough, but I'd swap the Pump and ASD relays first.

--
DougW

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:
> I posted last week about my 97 Wrangler 4.0 AT not starting and I'm still
> trouble-shooting. My current question is "what controls the fuel pump's
> pressurization cycle?" On my jeep, the fuel pump is running constantly
> when the ignition is in the "on" position, rather than running for a
> couple of seconds to pressurize the rail. I think that if I knew what
> controlled that, I might have a clue on finding my gremlin. There is no
> juice on the distributor side of the coil. There is fuel pressure at the
> rail. So far, I have ruled out the crank position sensor, bad ground, the
> entire throttle body with all attached electrical gizmos, and I have
> cleaned every electrical connection that I can readily get to under the
> hood... My plan of action from here is the coil, a short somewhere in the
> harness, and the PCM. Any help is appreciated.

The pump is controlled by the computer. It should run for about two
seconds then shut off. It starts running again when the engine fires.
Sticky relay? In my Jeep it's the relay center by the battery. About a 9$
part (but the same as the fog or AC relay so they can be swapped)

If the engine doesn't crank (computer doesn't sense the motor has started)
within about two cranks it kills the engine by removing power from the ASD
relay (which depowers the coil and should also kill the fuel pump) Can't
say for certain as your wiring is different from mine.

What your describing could very well be a coil. My ZJ did that last time
the coil went south.. And even after I ohmed out the coil (which tested "ok")
the coil was still bad inside and would not throw enough of a spark.

They make a spark tester.
http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TTW409.html

New coil is cheap enough, but I'd swap the Pump and ASD relays first.

--
DougW

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:
> I posted last week about my 97 Wrangler 4.0 AT not starting and I'm still
> trouble-shooting. My current question is "what controls the fuel pump's
> pressurization cycle?" On my jeep, the fuel pump is running constantly
> when the ignition is in the "on" position, rather than running for a
> couple of seconds to pressurize the rail. I think that if I knew what
> controlled that, I might have a clue on finding my gremlin. There is no
> juice on the distributor side of the coil. There is fuel pressure at the
> rail. So far, I have ruled out the crank position sensor, bad ground, the
> entire throttle body with all attached electrical gizmos, and I have
> cleaned every electrical connection that I can readily get to under the
> hood... My plan of action from here is the coil, a short somewhere in the
> harness, and the PCM. Any help is appreciated.

The pump is controlled by the computer. It should run for about two
seconds then shut off. It starts running again when the engine fires.
Sticky relay? In my Jeep it's the relay center by the battery. About a 9$
part (but the same as the fog or AC relay so they can be swapped)

If the engine doesn't crank (computer doesn't sense the motor has started)
within about two cranks it kills the engine by removing power from the ASD
relay (which depowers the coil and should also kill the fuel pump) Can't
say for certain as your wiring is different from mine.

What your describing could very well be a coil. My ZJ did that last time
the coil went south.. And even after I ohmed out the coil (which tested "ok")
the coil was still bad inside and would not throw enough of a spark.

They make a spark tester.
http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TTW409.html

New coil is cheap enough, but I'd swap the Pump and ASD relays first.

--
DougW

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

An excellent suggestion but unfortunately, another thing that I've already
tried. I swapped the relays not only between the ASD and fuel pump relay
but also between my wife's 97 WJ and my TJ all to no avail. I am still
waiting for the free time to address the coil...

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:05:40 -0400, DougW <post.replies@invalid.address>
wrote:

> Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:
>> I posted last week about my 97 Wrangler 4.0 AT not starting and I'm
>> still
>> trouble-shooting. My current question is "what controls the fuel pump's
>> pressurization cycle?" On my jeep, the fuel pump is running constantly
>> when the ignition is in the "on" position, rather than running for a
>> couple of seconds to pressurize the rail. I think that if I knew what
>> controlled that, I might have a clue on finding my gremlin. There is no
>> juice on the distributor side of the coil. There is fuel pressure at
>> the
>> rail. So far, I have ruled out the crank position sensor, bad ground,
>> the
>> entire throttle body with all attached electrical gizmos, and I have
>> cleaned every electrical connection that I can readily get to under the
>> hood... My plan of action from here is the coil, a short somewhere in
>> the
>> harness, and the PCM. Any help is appreciated.
>
> The pump is controlled by the computer. It should run for about two
> seconds then shut off. It starts running again when the engine fires.
> Sticky relay? In my Jeep it's the relay center by the battery. About a
> 9$
> part (but the same as the fog or AC relay so they can be swapped)
>
> If the engine doesn't crank (computer doesn't sense the motor has
> started)
> within about two cranks it kills the engine by removing power from the
> ASD
> relay (which depowers the coil and should also kill the fuel pump) Can't
> say for certain as your wiring is different from mine.
>
> What your describing could very well be a coil. My ZJ did that last time
> the coil went south.. And even after I ohmed out the coil (which tested
> "ok")
> the coil was still bad inside and would not throw enough of a spark.
>
> They make a spark tester.
> http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TTW409.html
>
> New coil is cheap enough, but I'd swap the Pump and ASD relays first.
>



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

An excellent suggestion but unfortunately, another thing that I've already
tried. I swapped the relays not only between the ASD and fuel pump relay
but also between my wife's 97 WJ and my TJ all to no avail. I am still
waiting for the free time to address the coil...

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:05:40 -0400, DougW <post.replies@invalid.address>
wrote:

> Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:
>> I posted last week about my 97 Wrangler 4.0 AT not starting and I'm
>> still
>> trouble-shooting. My current question is "what controls the fuel pump's
>> pressurization cycle?" On my jeep, the fuel pump is running constantly
>> when the ignition is in the "on" position, rather than running for a
>> couple of seconds to pressurize the rail. I think that if I knew what
>> controlled that, I might have a clue on finding my gremlin. There is no
>> juice on the distributor side of the coil. There is fuel pressure at
>> the
>> rail. So far, I have ruled out the crank position sensor, bad ground,
>> the
>> entire throttle body with all attached electrical gizmos, and I have
>> cleaned every electrical connection that I can readily get to under the
>> hood... My plan of action from here is the coil, a short somewhere in
>> the
>> harness, and the PCM. Any help is appreciated.
>
> The pump is controlled by the computer. It should run for about two
> seconds then shut off. It starts running again when the engine fires.
> Sticky relay? In my Jeep it's the relay center by the battery. About a
> 9$
> part (but the same as the fog or AC relay so they can be swapped)
>
> If the engine doesn't crank (computer doesn't sense the motor has
> started)
> within about two cranks it kills the engine by removing power from the
> ASD
> relay (which depowers the coil and should also kill the fuel pump) Can't
> say for certain as your wiring is different from mine.
>
> What your describing could very well be a coil. My ZJ did that last time
> the coil went south.. And even after I ohmed out the coil (which tested
> "ok")
> the coil was still bad inside and would not throw enough of a spark.
>
> They make a spark tester.
> http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TTW409.html
>
> New coil is cheap enough, but I'd swap the Pump and ASD relays first.
>



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

An excellent suggestion but unfortunately, another thing that I've already
tried. I swapped the relays not only between the ASD and fuel pump relay
but also between my wife's 97 WJ and my TJ all to no avail. I am still
waiting for the free time to address the coil...

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:05:40 -0400, DougW <post.replies@invalid.address>
wrote:

> Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:
>> I posted last week about my 97 Wrangler 4.0 AT not starting and I'm
>> still
>> trouble-shooting. My current question is "what controls the fuel pump's
>> pressurization cycle?" On my jeep, the fuel pump is running constantly
>> when the ignition is in the "on" position, rather than running for a
>> couple of seconds to pressurize the rail. I think that if I knew what
>> controlled that, I might have a clue on finding my gremlin. There is no
>> juice on the distributor side of the coil. There is fuel pressure at
>> the
>> rail. So far, I have ruled out the crank position sensor, bad ground,
>> the
>> entire throttle body with all attached electrical gizmos, and I have
>> cleaned every electrical connection that I can readily get to under the
>> hood... My plan of action from here is the coil, a short somewhere in
>> the
>> harness, and the PCM. Any help is appreciated.
>
> The pump is controlled by the computer. It should run for about two
> seconds then shut off. It starts running again when the engine fires.
> Sticky relay? In my Jeep it's the relay center by the battery. About a
> 9$
> part (but the same as the fog or AC relay so they can be swapped)
>
> If the engine doesn't crank (computer doesn't sense the motor has
> started)
> within about two cranks it kills the engine by removing power from the
> ASD
> relay (which depowers the coil and should also kill the fuel pump) Can't
> say for certain as your wiring is different from mine.
>
> What your describing could very well be a coil. My ZJ did that last time
> the coil went south.. And even after I ohmed out the coil (which tested
> "ok")
> the coil was still bad inside and would not throw enough of a spark.
>
> They make a spark tester.
> http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TTW409.html
>
> New coil is cheap enough, but I'd swap the Pump and ASD relays first.
>



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:
> An excellent suggestion but unfortunately, another thing that I've already
> tried. I swapped the relays not only between the ASD and fuel pump relay
> but also between my wife's 97 WJ and my TJ all to no avail. I am still
> waiting for the free time to address the coil...

When you do the coil (if you do the coil) make sure you get the upgraded
part. Napa has it (and the OEM part is from the same folks)
You will know the part because it comes with a voltage reducing adapter cable.

ECHIC409 is the part number. It's not cheap $50 (dang thing went up 10$ since I
got mine last year!) If your retired/active duty/civillian napa has a good
discount program. Pays to ask. Jeep had a recall on the ignition coil long
time ago and this was the part they used.

--
DougW

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:
> An excellent suggestion but unfortunately, another thing that I've already
> tried. I swapped the relays not only between the ASD and fuel pump relay
> but also between my wife's 97 WJ and my TJ all to no avail. I am still
> waiting for the free time to address the coil...

When you do the coil (if you do the coil) make sure you get the upgraded
part. Napa has it (and the OEM part is from the same folks)
You will know the part because it comes with a voltage reducing adapter cable.

ECHIC409 is the part number. It's not cheap $50 (dang thing went up 10$ since I
got mine last year!) If your retired/active duty/civillian napa has a good
discount program. Pays to ask. Jeep had a recall on the ignition coil long
time ago and this was the part they used.

--
DougW

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:
> An excellent suggestion but unfortunately, another thing that I've already
> tried. I swapped the relays not only between the ASD and fuel pump relay
> but also between my wife's 97 WJ and my TJ all to no avail. I am still
> waiting for the free time to address the coil...

When you do the coil (if you do the coil) make sure you get the upgraded
part. Napa has it (and the OEM part is from the same folks)
You will know the part because it comes with a voltage reducing adapter cable.

ECHIC409 is the part number. It's not cheap $50 (dang thing went up 10$ since I
got mine last year!) If your retired/active duty/civillian napa has a good
discount program. Pays to ask. Jeep had a recall on the ignition coil long
time ago and this was the part they used.

--
DougW

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:43:44 -0400, DougW <post.replies@invalid.address>
wrote:

> Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:
>> An excellent suggestion but unfortunately, another thing that I've
>> already
>> tried. I swapped the relays not only between the ASD and fuel pump
>> relay
>> but also between my wife's 97 WJ and my TJ all to no avail. I am still
>> waiting for the free time to address the coil...
>
> When you do the coil (if you do the coil) make sure you get the upgraded
> part. Napa has it (and the OEM part is from the same folks)
> You will know the part because it comes with a voltage reducing adapter
> cable.
>
> ECHIC409 is the part number. It's not cheap $50 (dang thing went up
> 10$ since I
> got mine last year!) If your retired/active duty/civillian napa has a
> good
> discount program. Pays to ask. Jeep had a recall on the ignition coil
> long
> time ago and this was the part they used.
>



Thanks for the heads up on the coil replacement. I knew that I definitely
didn't want to go with the Wells replacement. I haven't had good luck
with those guys. Currently there is a "Screamin Demon" coil in place that
came with a package of supposed upgrades to the ignition system to include
a brass terminaled distributor cap/rotor button and sleeved plug wires. I
don't know what possesses me not to leave well enough alone but there's a
driving force in my soul...

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:43:44 -0400, DougW <post.replies@invalid.address>
wrote:

> Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:
>> An excellent suggestion but unfortunately, another thing that I've
>> already
>> tried. I swapped the relays not only between the ASD and fuel pump
>> relay
>> but also between my wife's 97 WJ and my TJ all to no avail. I am still
>> waiting for the free time to address the coil...
>
> When you do the coil (if you do the coil) make sure you get the upgraded
> part. Napa has it (and the OEM part is from the same folks)
> You will know the part because it comes with a voltage reducing adapter
> cable.
>
> ECHIC409 is the part number. It's not cheap $50 (dang thing went up
> 10$ since I
> got mine last year!) If your retired/active duty/civillian napa has a
> good
> discount program. Pays to ask. Jeep had a recall on the ignition coil
> long
> time ago and this was the part they used.
>



Thanks for the heads up on the coil replacement. I knew that I definitely
didn't want to go with the Wells replacement. I haven't had good luck
with those guys. Currently there is a "Screamin Demon" coil in place that
came with a package of supposed upgrades to the ignition system to include
a brass terminaled distributor cap/rotor button and sleeved plug wires. I
don't know what possesses me not to leave well enough alone but there's a
driving force in my soul...

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:43:44 -0400, DougW <post.replies@invalid.address>
wrote:

> Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:
>> An excellent suggestion but unfortunately, another thing that I've
>> already
>> tried. I swapped the relays not only between the ASD and fuel pump
>> relay
>> but also between my wife's 97 WJ and my TJ all to no avail. I am still
>> waiting for the free time to address the coil...
>
> When you do the coil (if you do the coil) make sure you get the upgraded
> part. Napa has it (and the OEM part is from the same folks)
> You will know the part because it comes with a voltage reducing adapter
> cable.
>
> ECHIC409 is the part number. It's not cheap $50 (dang thing went up
> 10$ since I
> got mine last year!) If your retired/active duty/civillian napa has a
> good
> discount program. Pays to ask. Jeep had a recall on the ignition coil
> long
> time ago and this was the part they used.
>



Thanks for the heads up on the coil replacement. I knew that I definitely
didn't want to go with the Wells replacement. I haven't had good luck
with those guys. Currently there is a "Screamin Demon" coil in place that
came with a package of supposed upgrades to the ignition system to include
a brass terminaled distributor cap/rotor button and sleeved plug wires. I
don't know what possesses me not to leave well enough alone but there's a
driving force in my soul...

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:

>
> Thanks for the heads up on the coil replacement. I knew that I definitely
> didn't want to go with the Wells replacement. I haven't had good luck
> with those guys. Currently there is a "Screamin Demon" coil in place that
> came with a package of supposed upgrades to the ignition system to include
> a brass terminaled distributor cap/rotor button and sleeved plug wires. I
> don't know what possesses me not to leave well enough alone but there's a
> driving force in my soul...

Tell me about it. Driving force in the soul and draining force in the
wallet. :)


--
-- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.cox.net/wilsond
HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors
Banks Header - and BEER, in the fridge!

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:

>
> Thanks for the heads up on the coil replacement. I knew that I definitely
> didn't want to go with the Wells replacement. I haven't had good luck
> with those guys. Currently there is a "Screamin Demon" coil in place that
> came with a package of supposed upgrades to the ignition system to include
> a brass terminaled distributor cap/rotor button and sleeved plug wires. I
> don't know what possesses me not to leave well enough alone but there's a
> driving force in my soul...

Tell me about it. Driving force in the soul and draining force in the
wallet. :)


--
-- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.cox.net/wilsond
HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors
Banks Header - and BEER, in the fridge!

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Junior Samples did pass the time by typing:

>
> Thanks for the heads up on the coil replacement. I knew that I definitely
> didn't want to go with the Wells replacement. I haven't had good luck
> with those guys. Currently there is a "Screamin Demon" coil in place that
> came with a package of supposed upgrades to the ignition system to include
> a brass terminaled distributor cap/rotor button and sleeved plug wires. I
> don't know what possesses me not to leave well enough alone but there's a
> driving force in my soul...

Tell me about it. Driving force in the soul and draining force in the
wallet. :)


--
-- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.cox.net/wilsond
HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors
Banks Header - and BEER, in the fridge!

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Since my last post, I have ruled out the coil, the distributor, and the
PCM. I'm left with a short somewhere in the wiring harness. As the Jeep
refuses to give me back the codes from the PCM and the fuel guage doesn't
register when the key is in on position (yes I'm sure there's gas in
there) where is the most likely spot for the short? Between the ignition
and the PCM or from the main fuse block and the fuel pump or another
unnamed option? Any and all suggestions are appreciated as I am near my
wit's end and have seriously begun to consider the efficacy of military
grade explosives with regards to this particular problem.

To simplify, here's what's been checked so far (I swap the parts one for
one into my wife's JGC and start it up before saying a part is good when
possible or used the multimeter as appropriate).

-Throttle body complete with all attached sensors
-Crank position sensor
-Cam position sensor
-Ignition Coil
-PCM
-Plug Wires
-Main grounds at firewill and near dipstick
-Ignition Switch
-Fuel pump relay, ASD relay


On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 18:59:24 -0400, Junior Samples
<junior-samples@home.com> wrote:

> I posted last week about my 97 Wrangler 4.0 AT not starting and I'm
> still trouble-shooting. My current question is "what controls the fuel
> pump's pressurization cycle?" On my jeep, the fuel pump is running
> constantly when the ignition is in the "on" position, rather than
> running for a couple of seconds to pressurize the rail. I think that if
> I knew what controlled that, I might have a clue on finding my gremlin.
> There is no juice on the distributor side of the coil. There is fuel
> pressure at the rail. So far, I have ruled out the crank position
> sensor, bad ground, the entire throttle body with all attached
> electrical gizmos, and I have cleaned every electrical connection that I
> can readily get to under the hood... My plan of action from here is the
> coil, a short somewhere in the harness, and the PCM. Any help is
> appreciated.
>



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Since my last post, I have ruled out the coil, the distributor, and the
PCM. I'm left with a short somewhere in the wiring harness. As the Jeep
refuses to give me back the codes from the PCM and the fuel guage doesn't
register when the key is in on position (yes I'm sure there's gas in
there) where is the most likely spot for the short? Between the ignition
and the PCM or from the main fuse block and the fuel pump or another
unnamed option? Any and all suggestions are appreciated as I am near my
wit's end and have seriously begun to consider the efficacy of military
grade explosives with regards to this particular problem.

To simplify, here's what's been checked so far (I swap the parts one for
one into my wife's JGC and start it up before saying a part is good when
possible or used the multimeter as appropriate).

-Throttle body complete with all attached sensors
-Crank position sensor
-Cam position sensor
-Ignition Coil
-PCM
-Plug Wires
-Main grounds at firewill and near dipstick
-Ignition Switch
-Fuel pump relay, ASD relay


On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 18:59:24 -0400, Junior Samples
<junior-samples@home.com> wrote:

> I posted last week about my 97 Wrangler 4.0 AT not starting and I'm
> still trouble-shooting. My current question is "what controls the fuel
> pump's pressurization cycle?" On my jeep, the fuel pump is running
> constantly when the ignition is in the "on" position, rather than
> running for a couple of seconds to pressurize the rail. I think that if
> I knew what controlled that, I might have a clue on finding my gremlin.
> There is no juice on the distributor side of the coil. There is fuel
> pressure at the rail. So far, I have ruled out the crank position
> sensor, bad ground, the entire throttle body with all attached
> electrical gizmos, and I have cleaned every electrical connection that I
> can readily get to under the hood... My plan of action from here is the
> coil, a short somewhere in the harness, and the PCM. Any help is
> appreciated.
>



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Since my last post, I have ruled out the coil, the distributor, and the
PCM. I'm left with a short somewhere in the wiring harness. As the Jeep
refuses to give me back the codes from the PCM and the fuel guage doesn't
register when the key is in on position (yes I'm sure there's gas in
there) where is the most likely spot for the short? Between the ignition
and the PCM or from the main fuse block and the fuel pump or another
unnamed option? Any and all suggestions are appreciated as I am near my
wit's end and have seriously begun to consider the efficacy of military
grade explosives with regards to this particular problem.

To simplify, here's what's been checked so far (I swap the parts one for
one into my wife's JGC and start it up before saying a part is good when
possible or used the multimeter as appropriate).

-Throttle body complete with all attached sensors
-Crank position sensor
-Cam position sensor
-Ignition Coil
-PCM
-Plug Wires
-Main grounds at firewill and near dipstick
-Ignition Switch
-Fuel pump relay, ASD relay


On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 18:59:24 -0400, Junior Samples
<junior-samples@home.com> wrote:

> I posted last week about my 97 Wrangler 4.0 AT not starting and I'm
> still trouble-shooting. My current question is "what controls the fuel
> pump's pressurization cycle?" On my jeep, the fuel pump is running
> constantly when the ignition is in the "on" position, rather than
> running for a couple of seconds to pressurize the rail. I think that if
> I knew what controlled that, I might have a clue on finding my gremlin.
> There is no juice on the distributor side of the coil. There is fuel
> pressure at the rail. So far, I have ruled out the crank position
> sensor, bad ground, the entire throttle body with all attached
> electrical gizmos, and I have cleaned every electrical connection that I
> can readily get to under the hood... My plan of action from here is the
> coil, a short somewhere in the harness, and the PCM. Any help is
> appreciated.
>



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Next in the process of elimination, is the computer:
http://www.----------.com/temp/97TJignition.pdf
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Junior Samples wrote:
>
> Since my last post, I have ruled out the coil, the distributor, and the
> PCM. I'm left with a short somewhere in the wiring harness. As the Jeep
> refuses to give me back the codes from the PCM and the fuel guage doesn't
> register when the key is in on position (yes I'm sure there's gas in
> there) where is the most likely spot for the short? Between the ignition
> and the PCM or from the main fuse block and the fuel pump or another
> unnamed option? Any and all suggestions are appreciated as I am near my
> wit's end and have seriously begun to consider the efficacy of military
> grade explosives with regards to this particular problem.
>
> To simplify, here's what's been checked so far (I swap the parts one for
> one into my wife's JGC and start it up before saying a part is good when
> possible or used the multimeter as appropriate).
>
> -Throttle body complete with all attached sensors
> -Crank position sensor
> -Cam position sensor
> -Ignition Coil
> -PCM
> -Plug Wires
> -Main grounds at firewill and near dipstick
> -Ignition Switch
> -Fuel pump relay, ASD relay

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Next in the process of elimination, is the computer:
http://www.----------.com/temp/97TJignition.pdf
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Junior Samples wrote:
>
> Since my last post, I have ruled out the coil, the distributor, and the
> PCM. I'm left with a short somewhere in the wiring harness. As the Jeep
> refuses to give me back the codes from the PCM and the fuel guage doesn't
> register when the key is in on position (yes I'm sure there's gas in
> there) where is the most likely spot for the short? Between the ignition
> and the PCM or from the main fuse block and the fuel pump or another
> unnamed option? Any and all suggestions are appreciated as I am near my
> wit's end and have seriously begun to consider the efficacy of military
> grade explosives with regards to this particular problem.
>
> To simplify, here's what's been checked so far (I swap the parts one for
> one into my wife's JGC and start it up before saying a part is good when
> possible or used the multimeter as appropriate).
>
> -Throttle body complete with all attached sensors
> -Crank position sensor
> -Cam position sensor
> -Ignition Coil
> -PCM
> -Plug Wires
> -Main grounds at firewill and near dipstick
> -Ignition Switch
> -Fuel pump relay, ASD relay

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Next in the process of elimination, is the computer:
http://www.----------.com/temp/97TJignition.pdf
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Junior Samples wrote:
>
> Since my last post, I have ruled out the coil, the distributor, and the
> PCM. I'm left with a short somewhere in the wiring harness. As the Jeep
> refuses to give me back the codes from the PCM and the fuel guage doesn't
> register when the key is in on position (yes I'm sure there's gas in
> there) where is the most likely spot for the short? Between the ignition
> and the PCM or from the main fuse block and the fuel pump or another
> unnamed option? Any and all suggestions are appreciated as I am near my
> wit's end and have seriously begun to consider the efficacy of military
> grade explosives with regards to this particular problem.
>
> To simplify, here's what's been checked so far (I swap the parts one for
> one into my wife's JGC and start it up before saying a part is good when
> possible or used the multimeter as appropriate).
>
> -Throttle body complete with all attached sensors
> -Crank position sensor
> -Cam position sensor
> -Ignition Coil
> -PCM
> -Plug Wires
> -Main grounds at firewill and near dipstick
> -Ignition Switch
> -Fuel pump relay, ASD relay

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Already done...that's the PCM. I swapped it out to my wife's 97 JGC and
it worked there. It did the same exact thing (didn't run!) with hers in
mine. I'm currently leading toward the fuel pump, the fuel pressure
regulator (I think it's a subcomponent of this particular fuel pump), or a
short somewhere. I'm trying to find a fuel pressure guage that will
attach to the rail.

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 22:00:27 -0400, L.W.(Bill) ------ III
<----------@cox.net> wrote:

> Next in the process of elimination, is the computer:
> http://www.----------.com/temp/97TJignition.pdf
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Junior Samples wrote:
>>
>> Since my last post, I have ruled out the coil, the distributor, and the
>> PCM. I'm left with a short somewhere in the wiring harness. As the
>> Jeep
>> refuses to give me back the codes from the PCM and the fuel guage
>> doesn't
>> register when the key is in on position (yes I'm sure there's gas in
>> there) where is the most likely spot for the short? Between the ignition
>> and the PCM or from the main fuse block and the fuel pump or another
>> unnamed option? Any and all suggestions are appreciated as I am near my
>> wit's end and have seriously begun to consider the efficacy of military
>> grade explosives with regards to this particular problem.
>>
>> To simplify, here's what's been checked so far (I swap the parts one for
>> one into my wife's JGC and start it up before saying a part is good when
>> possible or used the multimeter as appropriate).
>>
>> -Throttle body complete with all attached sensors
>> -Crank position sensor
>> -Cam position sensor
>> -Ignition Coil
>> -PCM
>> -Plug Wires
>> -Main grounds at firewill and near dipstick
>> -Ignition Switch
>> -Fuel pump relay, ASD relay



--
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity."

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Already done...that's the PCM. I swapped it out to my wife's 97 JGC and
it worked there. It did the same exact thing (didn't run!) with hers in
mine. I'm currently leading toward the fuel pump, the fuel pressure
regulator (I think it's a subcomponent of this particular fuel pump), or a
short somewhere. I'm trying to find a fuel pressure guage that will
attach to the rail.

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 22:00:27 -0400, L.W.(Bill) ------ III
<----------@cox.net> wrote:

> Next in the process of elimination, is the computer:
> http://www.----------.com/temp/97TJignition.pdf
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Junior Samples wrote:
>>
>> Since my last post, I have ruled out the coil, the distributor, and the
>> PCM. I'm left with a short somewhere in the wiring harness. As the
>> Jeep
>> refuses to give me back the codes from the PCM and the fuel guage
>> doesn't
>> register when the key is in on position (yes I'm sure there's gas in
>> there) where is the most likely spot for the short? Between the ignition
>> and the PCM or from the main fuse block and the fuel pump or another
>> unnamed option? Any and all suggestions are appreciated as I am near my
>> wit's end and have seriously begun to consider the efficacy of military
>> grade explosives with regards to this particular problem.
>>
>> To simplify, here's what's been checked so far (I swap the parts one for
>> one into my wife's JGC and start it up before saying a part is good when
>> possible or used the multimeter as appropriate).
>>
>> -Throttle body complete with all attached sensors
>> -Crank position sensor
>> -Cam position sensor
>> -Ignition Coil
>> -PCM
>> -Plug Wires
>> -Main grounds at firewill and near dipstick
>> -Ignition Switch
>> -Fuel pump relay, ASD relay



--
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity."

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

Already done...that's the PCM. I swapped it out to my wife's 97 JGC and
it worked there. It did the same exact thing (didn't run!) with hers in
mine. I'm currently leading toward the fuel pump, the fuel pressure
regulator (I think it's a subcomponent of this particular fuel pump), or a
short somewhere. I'm trying to find a fuel pressure guage that will
attach to the rail.

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 22:00:27 -0400, L.W.(Bill) ------ III
<----------@cox.net> wrote:

> Next in the process of elimination, is the computer:
> http://www.----------.com/temp/97TJignition.pdf
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Junior Samples wrote:
>>
>> Since my last post, I have ruled out the coil, the distributor, and the
>> PCM. I'm left with a short somewhere in the wiring harness. As the
>> Jeep
>> refuses to give me back the codes from the PCM and the fuel guage
>> doesn't
>> register when the key is in on position (yes I'm sure there's gas in
>> there) where is the most likely spot for the short? Between the ignition
>> and the PCM or from the main fuse block and the fuel pump or another
>> unnamed option? Any and all suggestions are appreciated as I am near my
>> wit's end and have seriously begun to consider the efficacy of military
>> grade explosives with regards to this particular problem.
>>
>> To simplify, here's what's been checked so far (I swap the parts one for
>> one into my wife's JGC and start it up before saying a part is good when
>> possible or used the multimeter as appropriate).
>>
>> -Throttle body complete with all attached sensors
>> -Crank position sensor
>> -Cam position sensor
>> -Ignition Coil
>> -PCM
>> -Plug Wires
>> -Main grounds at firewill and near dipstick
>> -Ignition Switch
>> -Fuel pump relay, ASD relay



--
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity."

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

The old gauge used on A/C R-14 is the same fitting.
Have you looked through Doug Wilson's pages at:
http://members.cox.net/wilsond/ ?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Junior Samples wrote:
>
> Already done...that's the PCM. I swapped it out to my wife's 97 JGC and
> it worked there. It did the same exact thing (didn't run!) with hers in
> mine. I'm currently leading toward the fuel pump, the fuel pressure
> regulator (I think it's a subcomponent of this particular fuel pump), or a
> short somewhere. I'm trying to find a fuel pressure guage that will
> attach to the rail.

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

The old gauge used on A/C R-14 is the same fitting.
Have you looked through Doug Wilson's pages at:
http://members.cox.net/wilsond/ ?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Junior Samples wrote:
>
> Already done...that's the PCM. I swapped it out to my wife's 97 JGC and
> it worked there. It did the same exact thing (didn't run!) with hers in
> mine. I'm currently leading toward the fuel pump, the fuel pressure
> regulator (I think it's a subcomponent of this particular fuel pump), or a
> short somewhere. I'm trying to find a fuel pressure guage that will
> attach to the rail.

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

The old gauge used on A/C R-14 is the same fitting.
Have you looked through Doug Wilson's pages at:
http://members.cox.net/wilsond/ ?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Junior Samples wrote:
>
> Already done...that's the PCM. I swapped it out to my wife's 97 JGC and
> it worked there. It did the same exact thing (didn't run!) with hers in
> mine. I'm currently leading toward the fuel pump, the fuel pressure
> regulator (I think it's a subcomponent of this particular fuel pump), or a
> short somewhere. I'm trying to find a fuel pressure guage that will
> attach to the rail.

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

In article <op.tcnfqqn6owjbr2@homestation.nc.rr.com>,
Junior Samples <junior-samples@home.com> wrote:
>Already done...that's the PCM. I swapped it out to my wife's 97 JGC and
>it worked there. It did the same exact thing (didn't run!) with hers in
>mine. I'm currently leading toward the fuel pump, the fuel pressure
>regulator (I think it's a subcomponent of this particular fuel pump), or a
>short somewhere. I'm trying to find a fuel pressure guage that will
>attach to the rail.
>
>On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 22:00:27 -0400, L.W.(Bill) ------ III
><----------@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Next in the process of elimination, is the computer:
>> http://www.----------.com/temp/97TJignition.pdf
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O

Hey Junior, you have to keep those fancy letters to a minimum or Bill
might get confused. :-)


--
Jeeps and dubs and everything's nice...

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

In article <op.tcnfqqn6owjbr2@homestation.nc.rr.com>,
Junior Samples <junior-samples@home.com> wrote:
>Already done...that's the PCM. I swapped it out to my wife's 97 JGC and
>it worked there. It did the same exact thing (didn't run!) with hers in
>mine. I'm currently leading toward the fuel pump, the fuel pressure
>regulator (I think it's a subcomponent of this particular fuel pump), or a
>short somewhere. I'm trying to find a fuel pressure guage that will
>attach to the rail.
>
>On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 22:00:27 -0400, L.W.(Bill) ------ III
><----------@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Next in the process of elimination, is the computer:
>> http://www.----------.com/temp/97TJignition.pdf
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O

Hey Junior, you have to keep those fancy letters to a minimum or Bill
might get confused. :-)


--
Jeeps and dubs and everything's nice...

Re: This gremlin is still eluding me!
 

In article <op.tcnfqqn6owjbr2@homestation.nc.rr.com>,
Junior Samples <junior-samples@home.com> wrote:
>Already done...that's the PCM. I swapped it out to my wife's 97 JGC and
>it worked there. It did the same exact thing (didn't run!) with hers in
>mine. I'm currently leading toward the fuel pump, the fuel pressure
>regulator (I think it's a subcomponent of this particular fuel pump), or a
>short somewhere. I'm trying to find a fuel pressure guage that will
>attach to the rail.
>
>On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 22:00:27 -0400, L.W.(Bill) ------ III
><----------@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Next in the process of elimination, is the computer:
>> http://www.----------.com/temp/97TJignition.pdf
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O

Hey Junior, you have to keep those fancy letters to a minimum or Bill
might get confused. :-)


--
Jeeps and dubs and everything's nice...