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Front End Shake
My 2001 Wrangler has a 3 1/2 BDS lift and a set of 33" tires. Recently
there has been a vibration appearing to be at the drivers side front between 35-40 Mph. I generally can steer out of the vibration or just hold the wheel real tight and get through the vibration which is not apparent once I pass 38-40mhp. I'm just wondering what I might expect to hear when I take it to the shop. I can't imagine wheel bearings, but I can imagine a tire spinning out of round or perhaps I through a weight off the rim. Any ideas? Tnx, Rick |
Re: Front End Shake
On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:37:38 GMT, Rick Gunderman <wa4rg@cox.net>
wrote: >My 2001 Wrangler has a 3 1/2 BDS lift and a set of 33" tires. Recently >there has been a vibration appearing to be at the drivers side front >between 35-40 Mph. I generally can steer out of the vibration or just hold >the wheel real tight and get through the vibration which is not apparent >once I pass 38-40mhp. > >I'm just wondering what I might expect to hear when I take it to the shop. >I can't imagine wheel bearings, but I can imagine a tire spinning out of >round or perhaps I through a weight off the rim. > >Any ideas? > >Tnx, Rick THis is common and aften mis diagnoised. You have what I call a caster "Death Wooble". It happens a lot with lifts that can change caster angle of axle and also the bigger tires change the dynamics of forces placed on front axle too and effect stabilty. SO will say you have loose jiont or bushing which can aggrevate it but it is the fact that the frontend is dynamically unstable to begin with that it shakes whether the joints or bushings are loose or not. Typically with some lift they tip axle forward to improve unjoint angel but the problem is that it also decreases positive caster. Toe in also play a role here. Factory alignement spec are for factory tires and wheel and when you change hthis sometimes you need to tweak them some. If you want to realy fix this you need to get your front end read to se what caster, camber and toe-in spec it is set too now. If I can see this data I can tell you what you need to change if your alignement tech cannot figure it out. I used to align these things 20 to 30 years ago back when ther was not computer racks and you had to understand how and why it works. Todays tech do littlew more than follow a software program and are lost when it does not fix it. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Front End Shake
On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:37:38 GMT, Rick Gunderman <wa4rg@cox.net>
wrote: >My 2001 Wrangler has a 3 1/2 BDS lift and a set of 33" tires. Recently >there has been a vibration appearing to be at the drivers side front >between 35-40 Mph. I generally can steer out of the vibration or just hold >the wheel real tight and get through the vibration which is not apparent >once I pass 38-40mhp. > >I'm just wondering what I might expect to hear when I take it to the shop. >I can't imagine wheel bearings, but I can imagine a tire spinning out of >round or perhaps I through a weight off the rim. > >Any ideas? > >Tnx, Rick THis is common and aften mis diagnoised. You have what I call a caster "Death Wooble". It happens a lot with lifts that can change caster angle of axle and also the bigger tires change the dynamics of forces placed on front axle too and effect stabilty. SO will say you have loose jiont or bushing which can aggrevate it but it is the fact that the frontend is dynamically unstable to begin with that it shakes whether the joints or bushings are loose or not. Typically with some lift they tip axle forward to improve unjoint angel but the problem is that it also decreases positive caster. Toe in also play a role here. Factory alignement spec are for factory tires and wheel and when you change hthis sometimes you need to tweak them some. If you want to realy fix this you need to get your front end read to se what caster, camber and toe-in spec it is set too now. If I can see this data I can tell you what you need to change if your alignement tech cannot figure it out. I used to align these things 20 to 30 years ago back when ther was not computer racks and you had to understand how and why it works. Todays tech do littlew more than follow a software program and are lost when it does not fix it. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Front End Shake
On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:37:38 GMT, Rick Gunderman <wa4rg@cox.net>
wrote: >My 2001 Wrangler has a 3 1/2 BDS lift and a set of 33" tires. Recently >there has been a vibration appearing to be at the drivers side front >between 35-40 Mph. I generally can steer out of the vibration or just hold >the wheel real tight and get through the vibration which is not apparent >once I pass 38-40mhp. > >I'm just wondering what I might expect to hear when I take it to the shop. >I can't imagine wheel bearings, but I can imagine a tire spinning out of >round or perhaps I through a weight off the rim. > >Any ideas? > >Tnx, Rick THis is common and aften mis diagnoised. You have what I call a caster "Death Wooble". It happens a lot with lifts that can change caster angle of axle and also the bigger tires change the dynamics of forces placed on front axle too and effect stabilty. SO will say you have loose jiont or bushing which can aggrevate it but it is the fact that the frontend is dynamically unstable to begin with that it shakes whether the joints or bushings are loose or not. Typically with some lift they tip axle forward to improve unjoint angel but the problem is that it also decreases positive caster. Toe in also play a role here. Factory alignement spec are for factory tires and wheel and when you change hthis sometimes you need to tweak them some. If you want to realy fix this you need to get your front end read to se what caster, camber and toe-in spec it is set too now. If I can see this data I can tell you what you need to change if your alignement tech cannot figure it out. I used to align these things 20 to 30 years ago back when ther was not computer racks and you had to understand how and why it works. Todays tech do littlew more than follow a software program and are lost when it does not fix it. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Front End Shake
SnoMan <admin@snoman.com> wrote in news:3upd13tnl1r53aalsfp0gkgo3sekke475l@
4ax.com: > > Thanks Snoman, I appreciate your comments and expertise. I had the jeep lifted a couple years back and this is something that has just come about lately. I can see why they call it a death wobble, whew, when it starts shaking it's aweful; I'm just thankful it's only aweful at low speed. As I said, once I get to 40mph things feel fine. I'm sure the tires don't help, they're MT Baha Claw Radials. There's a guy down the street that has a tire shop. I'll take it to his place and get those readings. He well may know what to do but I'll run it by you. Thanks again for the assistance. Rick |
Re: Front End Shake
SnoMan <admin@snoman.com> wrote in news:3upd13tnl1r53aalsfp0gkgo3sekke475l@
4ax.com: > > Thanks Snoman, I appreciate your comments and expertise. I had the jeep lifted a couple years back and this is something that has just come about lately. I can see why they call it a death wobble, whew, when it starts shaking it's aweful; I'm just thankful it's only aweful at low speed. As I said, once I get to 40mph things feel fine. I'm sure the tires don't help, they're MT Baha Claw Radials. There's a guy down the street that has a tire shop. I'll take it to his place and get those readings. He well may know what to do but I'll run it by you. Thanks again for the assistance. Rick |
Re: Front End Shake
SnoMan <admin@snoman.com> wrote in news:3upd13tnl1r53aalsfp0gkgo3sekke475l@
4ax.com: > > Thanks Snoman, I appreciate your comments and expertise. I had the jeep lifted a couple years back and this is something that has just come about lately. I can see why they call it a death wobble, whew, when it starts shaking it's aweful; I'm just thankful it's only aweful at low speed. As I said, once I get to 40mph things feel fine. I'm sure the tires don't help, they're MT Baha Claw Radials. There's a guy down the street that has a tire shop. I'll take it to his place and get those readings. He well may know what to do but I'll run it by you. Thanks again for the assistance. Rick |
Re: Front End Shake
"Rick Gunderman" wrote in message ... > Thanks Snoman, I appreciate your comments and expertise. I had the jeep > lifted a couple years back and this is something that has just come about > lately. I can see why they call it a death wobble, whew, when it starts > shaking it's aweful; I'm just thankful it's only aweful at low speed. As I > said, once I get to 40mph things feel fine. I'm sure the tires don't help, > they're MT Baha Claw Radials. > > There's a guy down the street that has a tire shop. I'll take it to his > place and get those readings. He well may know what to do but I'll run it > by you. > > Thanks again for the assistance. > > Rick I had the same thing happen. New lift, new tires, no vibrations. As the 33 BFG's wear down, the vibration appears. I rotated my tires with the best on front and the vibration went away. Try a new tire balance and your vibration will likely go away also. -- JimG 80' CJ-7 258 CID, HEI 4.56 Gears, Lock-Right F&R 35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines D44 Rear, D30 Front. SOA Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries 00' TJ Sport 4.0L, 5sp 4.56 Gears, TrueTrac rear 33" BFG AT on 15x8 Eagle Alloys D35 Rear, D30 Front. 3" Suspension Lift Warn X8000i |
Re: Front End Shake
"Rick Gunderman" wrote in message ... > Thanks Snoman, I appreciate your comments and expertise. I had the jeep > lifted a couple years back and this is something that has just come about > lately. I can see why they call it a death wobble, whew, when it starts > shaking it's aweful; I'm just thankful it's only aweful at low speed. As I > said, once I get to 40mph things feel fine. I'm sure the tires don't help, > they're MT Baha Claw Radials. > > There's a guy down the street that has a tire shop. I'll take it to his > place and get those readings. He well may know what to do but I'll run it > by you. > > Thanks again for the assistance. > > Rick I had the same thing happen. New lift, new tires, no vibrations. As the 33 BFG's wear down, the vibration appears. I rotated my tires with the best on front and the vibration went away. Try a new tire balance and your vibration will likely go away also. -- JimG 80' CJ-7 258 CID, HEI 4.56 Gears, Lock-Right F&R 35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines D44 Rear, D30 Front. SOA Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries 00' TJ Sport 4.0L, 5sp 4.56 Gears, TrueTrac rear 33" BFG AT on 15x8 Eagle Alloys D35 Rear, D30 Front. 3" Suspension Lift Warn X8000i |
Re: Front End Shake
"Rick Gunderman" wrote in message ... > Thanks Snoman, I appreciate your comments and expertise. I had the jeep > lifted a couple years back and this is something that has just come about > lately. I can see why they call it a death wobble, whew, when it starts > shaking it's aweful; I'm just thankful it's only aweful at low speed. As I > said, once I get to 40mph things feel fine. I'm sure the tires don't help, > they're MT Baha Claw Radials. > > There's a guy down the street that has a tire shop. I'll take it to his > place and get those readings. He well may know what to do but I'll run it > by you. > > Thanks again for the assistance. > > Rick I had the same thing happen. New lift, new tires, no vibrations. As the 33 BFG's wear down, the vibration appears. I rotated my tires with the best on front and the vibration went away. Try a new tire balance and your vibration will likely go away also. -- JimG 80' CJ-7 258 CID, HEI 4.56 Gears, Lock-Right F&R 35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines D44 Rear, D30 Front. SOA Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries 00' TJ Sport 4.0L, 5sp 4.56 Gears, TrueTrac rear 33" BFG AT on 15x8 Eagle Alloys D35 Rear, D30 Front. 3" Suspension Lift Warn X8000i |
Re: Front End Shake
Well, suspension lifts and big tires put a 'whole' lot more stress on
things so wear parts fast. You could easily be looking at an out of balance problem which is showing you a worn part early. Rotating the tires tells you fast if it is a balance issue. Even if it is just balance, I would be inspecting the tie rod ends and steering components like bushings to see if wear does come into play. If the steering geometry was off, I would have expected trouble from day one... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) Rick Gunderman wrote: > My 2001 Wrangler has a 3 1/2 BDS lift and a set of 33" tires. Recently > there has been a vibration appearing to be at the drivers side front > between 35-40 Mph. I generally can steer out of the vibration or just hold > the wheel real tight and get through the vibration which is not apparent > once I pass 38-40mhp. > > I'm just wondering what I might expect to hear when I take it to the shop. > I can't imagine wheel bearings, but I can imagine a tire spinning out of > round or perhaps I through a weight off the rim. > > Any ideas? > > Tnx, Rick |
Re: Front End Shake
Well, suspension lifts and big tires put a 'whole' lot more stress on
things so wear parts fast. You could easily be looking at an out of balance problem which is showing you a worn part early. Rotating the tires tells you fast if it is a balance issue. Even if it is just balance, I would be inspecting the tie rod ends and steering components like bushings to see if wear does come into play. If the steering geometry was off, I would have expected trouble from day one... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) Rick Gunderman wrote: > My 2001 Wrangler has a 3 1/2 BDS lift and a set of 33" tires. Recently > there has been a vibration appearing to be at the drivers side front > between 35-40 Mph. I generally can steer out of the vibration or just hold > the wheel real tight and get through the vibration which is not apparent > once I pass 38-40mhp. > > I'm just wondering what I might expect to hear when I take it to the shop. > I can't imagine wheel bearings, but I can imagine a tire spinning out of > round or perhaps I through a weight off the rim. > > Any ideas? > > Tnx, Rick |
Re: Front End Shake
Well, suspension lifts and big tires put a 'whole' lot more stress on
things so wear parts fast. You could easily be looking at an out of balance problem which is showing you a worn part early. Rotating the tires tells you fast if it is a balance issue. Even if it is just balance, I would be inspecting the tie rod ends and steering components like bushings to see if wear does come into play. If the steering geometry was off, I would have expected trouble from day one... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) Rick Gunderman wrote: > My 2001 Wrangler has a 3 1/2 BDS lift and a set of 33" tires. Recently > there has been a vibration appearing to be at the drivers side front > between 35-40 Mph. I generally can steer out of the vibration or just hold > the wheel real tight and get through the vibration which is not apparent > once I pass 38-40mhp. > > I'm just wondering what I might expect to hear when I take it to the shop. > I can't imagine wheel bearings, but I can imagine a tire spinning out of > round or perhaps I through a weight off the rim. > > Any ideas? > > Tnx, Rick |
Re: Front End Shake
You might want to look into getting a steering stabilizer.
Just do a little research on them, check out the explination at this link: http://www.rockymountainsusp.com/W_stabilizers.htm Aaron |
Re: Front End Shake
You might want to look into getting a steering stabilizer.
Just do a little research on them, check out the explination at this link: http://www.rockymountainsusp.com/W_stabilizers.htm Aaron |
Re: Front End Shake
You might want to look into getting a steering stabilizer.
Just do a little research on them, check out the explination at this link: http://www.rockymountainsusp.com/W_stabilizers.htm Aaron |
Re: Front End Shake
Aaron wrote:
> You might want to look into getting a steering stabilizer. > Just do a little research on them, check out the explination at this > link: > > http://www.rockymountainsusp.com/W_stabilizers.htm > > > Aaron > A steering stabilizer is a simple shock absorber, nothing else. It is there to mellow out any impacts the tires see when off roading or when tracking on road ruts and to prevent harmonic vibrations from setting up from slightly worn parts. If you take it off and the front end shakes, you need to 'fix' something. You won't get shakes unless something is worn or broken. I recently found out that my CJ7 with it's 33" mud tires has never had one on in the ten years or so I have owned it! It has a rod and an empty tube sitting there where a shock should be. I had bad shakes and wanders when I first got my Jeep. Once I 'fixed' everything that needed it, it has run perfect since. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: Front End Shake
Aaron wrote:
> You might want to look into getting a steering stabilizer. > Just do a little research on them, check out the explination at this > link: > > http://www.rockymountainsusp.com/W_stabilizers.htm > > > Aaron > A steering stabilizer is a simple shock absorber, nothing else. It is there to mellow out any impacts the tires see when off roading or when tracking on road ruts and to prevent harmonic vibrations from setting up from slightly worn parts. If you take it off and the front end shakes, you need to 'fix' something. You won't get shakes unless something is worn or broken. I recently found out that my CJ7 with it's 33" mud tires has never had one on in the ten years or so I have owned it! It has a rod and an empty tube sitting there where a shock should be. I had bad shakes and wanders when I first got my Jeep. Once I 'fixed' everything that needed it, it has run perfect since. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: Front End Shake
Aaron wrote:
> You might want to look into getting a steering stabilizer. > Just do a little research on them, check out the explination at this > link: > > http://www.rockymountainsusp.com/W_stabilizers.htm > > > Aaron > A steering stabilizer is a simple shock absorber, nothing else. It is there to mellow out any impacts the tires see when off roading or when tracking on road ruts and to prevent harmonic vibrations from setting up from slightly worn parts. If you take it off and the front end shakes, you need to 'fix' something. You won't get shakes unless something is worn or broken. I recently found out that my CJ7 with it's 33" mud tires has never had one on in the ten years or so I have owned it! It has a rod and an empty tube sitting there where a shock should be. I had bad shakes and wanders when I first got my Jeep. Once I 'fixed' everything that needed it, it has run perfect since. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: Re: Front End Shake
On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:05:21 GMT, "JimG" <JimG@nospam.com> wrote:
>I had the same thing happen. New lift, new tires, no vibrations. As the 33 >BFG's wear down, the vibration appears. I rotated my tires with the best on >front and the vibration went away. Try a new tire balance and your >vibration will likely go away also. This could be a agrevating cause but the basic problem is a instabilty in the front end that when it is given a reason to shake it can go crazy. If the front end was stabile a balance problem would provide likely more than a shimmy. I have seen front ends shake so bad that you think something is going to break of fall off. This instabilty is want lets it "run away" sometimes. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Front End Shake
On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:05:21 GMT, "JimG" <JimG@nospam.com> wrote:
>I had the same thing happen. New lift, new tires, no vibrations. As the 33 >BFG's wear down, the vibration appears. I rotated my tires with the best on >front and the vibration went away. Try a new tire balance and your >vibration will likely go away also. This could be a agrevating cause but the basic problem is a instabilty in the front end that when it is given a reason to shake it can go crazy. If the front end was stabile a balance problem would provide likely more than a shimmy. I have seen front ends shake so bad that you think something is going to break of fall off. This instabilty is want lets it "run away" sometimes. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Front End Shake
On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:05:21 GMT, "JimG" <JimG@nospam.com> wrote:
>I had the same thing happen. New lift, new tires, no vibrations. As the 33 >BFG's wear down, the vibration appears. I rotated my tires with the best on >front and the vibration went away. Try a new tire balance and your >vibration will likely go away also. This could be a agrevating cause but the basic problem is a instabilty in the front end that when it is given a reason to shake it can go crazy. If the front end was stabile a balance problem would provide likely more than a shimmy. I have seen front ends shake so bad that you think something is going to break of fall off. This instabilty is want lets it "run away" sometimes. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
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