engine codes what the....
 

So I have on engine code on my 2001 tj sport with the 4.0 in line six.
the code is 0301 which I believe is misfire on cylinder one. which
makes sense it back fires run like crap and no power. I replaced the
spark plugs(easy and cheap fix). that solved the problem till I got
after it and it started up again same code same symtoms does anyone
have any clue what my next step would be what would be causing this. I
don't really understand thenew system with no cap or rotor or wires
please help......

Re: engine codes what the....
 

Okay.... You have 3 coil packs on a rail and are getting only one code you
can assume that it is not an electrical or coil problem as cylinder 1 and 6
fire off the same coil pack.

Did you blank the code with a tool or by disconnecting the battery?

Did you save the old plug?

What did it look like?

Was it unusually clean compared to the others?

Was it carboned or oily?

What does the exhaust look and smell like?

Is this a recent or existing problem?

Did it happen all at once?

What, if anything, did you do when or shortly before the problem started?

How many miles?

What kind are the new plugs?

Have you cleaned the throttle body?

Did you use an upper engine/ valve carbon cleaner (SeaFoam, etc?)



"jeepnfonz" <jeepnfonz@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1155024110.444501.9630@m73g2000cwd.googlegrou ps.com...
> So I have on engine code on my 2001 tj sport with the 4.0 in line six.
> the code is 0301 which I believe is misfire on cylinder one. which
> makes sense it back fires run like crap and no power. I replaced the
> spark plugs(easy and cheap fix). that solved the problem till I got
> after it and it started up again same code same symtoms does anyone
> have any clue what my next step would be what would be causing this. I
> don't really understand thenew system with no cap or rotor or wires
> please help......
>

Re: engine codes what the....
 

Okay.... You have 3 coil packs on a rail and are getting only one code you
can assume that it is not an electrical or coil problem as cylinder 1 and 6
fire off the same coil pack.

Did you blank the code with a tool or by disconnecting the battery?

Did you save the old plug?

What did it look like?

Was it unusually clean compared to the others?

Was it carboned or oily?

What does the exhaust look and smell like?

Is this a recent or existing problem?

Did it happen all at once?

What, if anything, did you do when or shortly before the problem started?

How many miles?

What kind are the new plugs?

Have you cleaned the throttle body?

Did you use an upper engine/ valve carbon cleaner (SeaFoam, etc?)



"jeepnfonz" <jeepnfonz@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1155024110.444501.9630@m73g2000cwd.googlegrou ps.com...
> So I have on engine code on my 2001 tj sport with the 4.0 in line six.
> the code is 0301 which I believe is misfire on cylinder one. which
> makes sense it back fires run like crap and no power. I replaced the
> spark plugs(easy and cheap fix). that solved the problem till I got
> after it and it started up again same code same symtoms does anyone
> have any clue what my next step would be what would be causing this. I
> don't really understand thenew system with no cap or rotor or wires
> please help......
>

Re: engine codes what the....
 

Okay.... You have 3 coil packs on a rail and are getting only one code you
can assume that it is not an electrical or coil problem as cylinder 1 and 6
fire off the same coil pack.

Did you blank the code with a tool or by disconnecting the battery?

Did you save the old plug?

What did it look like?

Was it unusually clean compared to the others?

Was it carboned or oily?

What does the exhaust look and smell like?

Is this a recent or existing problem?

Did it happen all at once?

What, if anything, did you do when or shortly before the problem started?

How many miles?

What kind are the new plugs?

Have you cleaned the throttle body?

Did you use an upper engine/ valve carbon cleaner (SeaFoam, etc?)



"jeepnfonz" <jeepnfonz@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1155024110.444501.9630@m73g2000cwd.googlegrou ps.com...
> So I have on engine code on my 2001 tj sport with the 4.0 in line six.
> the code is 0301 which I believe is misfire on cylinder one. which
> makes sense it back fires run like crap and no power. I replaced the
> spark plugs(easy and cheap fix). that solved the problem till I got
> after it and it started up again same code same symtoms does anyone
> have any clue what my next step would be what would be causing this. I
> don't really understand thenew system with no cap or rotor or wires
> please help......
>

Re: engine codes what the....
 

Okay.... You have 3 coil packs on a rail and are getting only one code you
can assume that it is not an electrical or coil problem as cylinder 1 and 6
fire off the same coil pack.

Did you blank the code with a tool or by disconnecting the battery?

Did you save the old plug?

What did it look like?

Was it unusually clean compared to the others?

Was it carboned or oily?

What does the exhaust look and smell like?

Is this a recent or existing problem?

Did it happen all at once?

What, if anything, did you do when or shortly before the problem started?

How many miles?

What kind are the new plugs?

Have you cleaned the throttle body?

Did you use an upper engine/ valve carbon cleaner (SeaFoam, etc?)



"jeepnfonz" <jeepnfonz@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1155024110.444501.9630@m73g2000cwd.googlegrou ps.com...
> So I have on engine code on my 2001 tj sport with the 4.0 in line six.
> the code is 0301 which I believe is misfire on cylinder one. which
> makes sense it back fires run like crap and no power. I replaced the
> spark plugs(easy and cheap fix). that solved the problem till I got
> after it and it started up again same code same symtoms does anyone
> have any clue what my next step would be what would be causing this. I
> don't really understand thenew system with no cap or rotor or wires
> please help......
>

Re: engine codes what the....
 

Yes the plug was more dirty then the rest. the jeep has about 67,000
miles on it. See I was thinking for sure it was the coil, but that
makes sense thats its not. I replaced it with stock plugs. I think they
are autolites. There was one article I read said I should run champion
truck plugs. The plug I took out wasn't oily or yellow it was just
really black.

Is there a chance that I could have a bad cylinder. like low
compression, a bad valve or something. thanks for all the help so far
any more info would be great....

Re: engine codes what the....
 

Yes the plug was more dirty then the rest. the jeep has about 67,000
miles on it. See I was thinking for sure it was the coil, but that
makes sense thats its not. I replaced it with stock plugs. I think they
are autolites. There was one article I read said I should run champion
truck plugs. The plug I took out wasn't oily or yellow it was just
really black.

Is there a chance that I could have a bad cylinder. like low
compression, a bad valve or something. thanks for all the help so far
any more info would be great....

Re: engine codes what the....
 

Yes the plug was more dirty then the rest. the jeep has about 67,000
miles on it. See I was thinking for sure it was the coil, but that
makes sense thats its not. I replaced it with stock plugs. I think they
are autolites. There was one article I read said I should run champion
truck plugs. The plug I took out wasn't oily or yellow it was just
really black.

Is there a chance that I could have a bad cylinder. like low
compression, a bad valve or something. thanks for all the help so far
any more info would be great....

Re: engine codes what the....
 

Yes the plug was more dirty then the rest. the jeep has about 67,000
miles on it. See I was thinking for sure it was the coil, but that
makes sense thats its not. I replaced it with stock plugs. I think they
are autolites. There was one article I read said I should run champion
truck plugs. The plug I took out wasn't oily or yellow it was just
really black.

Is there a chance that I could have a bad cylinder. like low
compression, a bad valve or something. thanks for all the help so far
any more info would be great....

Re: engine codes what the....
 

What about the other questions? While some might sound silly they were
asked for a valid diagnostic reason.

For example the question "What does the exhaust smell like?".... if you said
it smells 'sweet' that might indicate you are burning antifreeze....

What we now know is you have an '01 4 liter with 67k, may have new standard
Autolite plugs and the old plug was some form of black.

Do I understand that it backfires also? How often?



>Did you blank the code with a tool or by disconnecting the battery?

>Did you save the old plug?

>What did it look like?
Oily (wet) black or dry (carbon) black?

>Was it carboned or oily?

>What does the exhaust look and smell like?

>Is this a recent or existing problem?

>Did it happen all at once?

>What, if anything, did you do when or shortly before the problem started?

>Have you cleaned the throttle body?

>Did you use an upper engine/ valve carbon cleaner (SeaFoam, etc?)

PS: Please use quotes, other will jump in with ideas if they know how the
diagnosis is proceeding...




"jeepnfonz" <jeepnfonz@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1155056034.787331.44690@i42g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Yes the plug was more dirty then the rest. the jeep has about 67,000
> miles on it. See I was thinking for sure it was the coil, but that
> makes sense thats its not. I replaced it with stock plugs. I think they
> are autolites. There was one article I read said I should run champion
> truck plugs. The plug I took out wasn't oily or yellow it was just
> really black.
>
> Is there a chance that I could have a bad cylinder. like low
> compression, a bad valve or something. thanks for all the help so far
> any more info would be great....
>

Re: engine codes what the....
 

What about the other questions? While some might sound silly they were
asked for a valid diagnostic reason.

For example the question "What does the exhaust smell like?".... if you said
it smells 'sweet' that might indicate you are burning antifreeze....

What we now know is you have an '01 4 liter with 67k, may have new standard
Autolite plugs and the old plug was some form of black.

Do I understand that it backfires also? How often?



>Did you blank the code with a tool or by disconnecting the battery?

>Did you save the old plug?

>What did it look like?
Oily (wet) black or dry (carbon) black?

>Was it carboned or oily?

>What does the exhaust look and smell like?

>Is this a recent or existing problem?

>Did it happen all at once?

>What, if anything, did you do when or shortly before the problem started?

>Have you cleaned the throttle body?

>Did you use an upper engine/ valve carbon cleaner (SeaFoam, etc?)

PS: Please use quotes, other will jump in with ideas if they know how the
diagnosis is proceeding...




"jeepnfonz" <jeepnfonz@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1155056034.787331.44690@i42g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Yes the plug was more dirty then the rest. the jeep has about 67,000
> miles on it. See I was thinking for sure it was the coil, but that
> makes sense thats its not. I replaced it with stock plugs. I think they
> are autolites. There was one article I read said I should run champion
> truck plugs. The plug I took out wasn't oily or yellow it was just
> really black.
>
> Is there a chance that I could have a bad cylinder. like low
> compression, a bad valve or something. thanks for all the help so far
> any more info would be great....
>

Re: engine codes what the....
 

What about the other questions? While some might sound silly they were
asked for a valid diagnostic reason.

For example the question "What does the exhaust smell like?".... if you said
it smells 'sweet' that might indicate you are burning antifreeze....

What we now know is you have an '01 4 liter with 67k, may have new standard
Autolite plugs and the old plug was some form of black.

Do I understand that it backfires also? How often?



>Did you blank the code with a tool or by disconnecting the battery?

>Did you save the old plug?

>What did it look like?
Oily (wet) black or dry (carbon) black?

>Was it carboned or oily?

>What does the exhaust look and smell like?

>Is this a recent or existing problem?

>Did it happen all at once?

>What, if anything, did you do when or shortly before the problem started?

>Have you cleaned the throttle body?

>Did you use an upper engine/ valve carbon cleaner (SeaFoam, etc?)

PS: Please use quotes, other will jump in with ideas if they know how the
diagnosis is proceeding...




"jeepnfonz" <jeepnfonz@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1155056034.787331.44690@i42g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Yes the plug was more dirty then the rest. the jeep has about 67,000
> miles on it. See I was thinking for sure it was the coil, but that
> makes sense thats its not. I replaced it with stock plugs. I think they
> are autolites. There was one article I read said I should run champion
> truck plugs. The plug I took out wasn't oily or yellow it was just
> really black.
>
> Is there a chance that I could have a bad cylinder. like low
> compression, a bad valve or something. thanks for all the help so far
> any more info would be great....
>

Re: engine codes what the....
 

What about the other questions? While some might sound silly they were
asked for a valid diagnostic reason.

For example the question "What does the exhaust smell like?".... if you said
it smells 'sweet' that might indicate you are burning antifreeze....

What we now know is you have an '01 4 liter with 67k, may have new standard
Autolite plugs and the old plug was some form of black.

Do I understand that it backfires also? How often?



>Did you blank the code with a tool or by disconnecting the battery?

>Did you save the old plug?

>What did it look like?
Oily (wet) black or dry (carbon) black?

>Was it carboned or oily?

>What does the exhaust look and smell like?

>Is this a recent or existing problem?

>Did it happen all at once?

>What, if anything, did you do when or shortly before the problem started?

>Have you cleaned the throttle body?

>Did you use an upper engine/ valve carbon cleaner (SeaFoam, etc?)

PS: Please use quotes, other will jump in with ideas if they know how the
diagnosis is proceeding...




"jeepnfonz" <jeepnfonz@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1155056034.787331.44690@i42g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Yes the plug was more dirty then the rest. the jeep has about 67,000
> miles on it. See I was thinking for sure it was the coil, but that
> makes sense thats its not. I replaced it with stock plugs. I think they
> are autolites. There was one article I read said I should run champion
> truck plugs. The plug I took out wasn't oily or yellow it was just
> really black.
>
> Is there a chance that I could have a bad cylinder. like low
> compression, a bad valve or something. thanks for all the help so far
> any more info would be great....
>

Re: engine codes what the....
 

Sounds like you should run a compression check on the engine and compare
that cylinder to it's friends. If that one is low, good chance you have
a bad valve. If the compression is ok, replace the plug wire. Brand of
sparkplug is not critical, none of the name brands should die within weeks.

jeepnfonz wrote:
> Yes the plug was more dirty then the rest. the jeep has about 67,000
> miles on it. See I was thinking for sure it was the coil, but that
> makes sense thats its not. I replaced it with stock plugs. I think they
> are autolites. There was one article I read said I should run champion
> truck plugs. The plug I took out wasn't oily or yellow it was just
> really black.
>
> Is there a chance that I could have a bad cylinder. like low
> compression, a bad valve or something. thanks for all the help so far
> any more info would be great....
>

Re: engine codes what the....
 

Sounds like you should run a compression check on the engine and compare
that cylinder to it's friends. If that one is low, good chance you have
a bad valve. If the compression is ok, replace the plug wire. Brand of
sparkplug is not critical, none of the name brands should die within weeks.

jeepnfonz wrote:
> Yes the plug was more dirty then the rest. the jeep has about 67,000
> miles on it. See I was thinking for sure it was the coil, but that
> makes sense thats its not. I replaced it with stock plugs. I think they
> are autolites. There was one article I read said I should run champion
> truck plugs. The plug I took out wasn't oily or yellow it was just
> really black.
>
> Is there a chance that I could have a bad cylinder. like low
> compression, a bad valve or something. thanks for all the help so far
> any more info would be great....
>

Re: engine codes what the....
 

Sounds like you should run a compression check on the engine and compare
that cylinder to it's friends. If that one is low, good chance you have
a bad valve. If the compression is ok, replace the plug wire. Brand of
sparkplug is not critical, none of the name brands should die within weeks.

jeepnfonz wrote:
> Yes the plug was more dirty then the rest. the jeep has about 67,000
> miles on it. See I was thinking for sure it was the coil, but that
> makes sense thats its not. I replaced it with stock plugs. I think they
> are autolites. There was one article I read said I should run champion
> truck plugs. The plug I took out wasn't oily or yellow it was just
> really black.
>
> Is there a chance that I could have a bad cylinder. like low
> compression, a bad valve or something. thanks for all the help so far
> any more info would be great....
>

Re: engine codes what the....
 

Sounds like you should run a compression check on the engine and compare
that cylinder to it's friends. If that one is low, good chance you have
a bad valve. If the compression is ok, replace the plug wire. Brand of
sparkplug is not critical, none of the name brands should die within weeks.

jeepnfonz wrote:
> Yes the plug was more dirty then the rest. the jeep has about 67,000
> miles on it. See I was thinking for sure it was the coil, but that
> makes sense thats its not. I replaced it with stock plugs. I think they
> are autolites. There was one article I read said I should run champion
> truck plugs. The plug I took out wasn't oily or yellow it was just
> really black.
>
> Is there a chance that I could have a bad cylinder. like low
> compression, a bad valve or something. thanks for all the help so far
> any more info would be great....
>

Re: engine codes what the....
 

So her are a few more ansewers to the questions:

spark plugs
dry black / they are champion brand.(new and old)

exhaust
the exhaust dosen't smell sweet it smells a little rich
We used a computer to pull the code the first time and we also earsed
it. today I earesed it by just un pluging the battery.

THe engine light has been on for about 2 to 3 months, but I didn't
worry about it it was running good. then all of sudden the light
started to flash why I was drivinh it and started to back fire. It
seems to idel ok but the bottom end wand why your on the gas, is
sluggish and back fires and spits. but full trottle it seams to run ok.

THanks for all the help you rule.let me know if there is anything else
you can think of.

Re: engine codes what the....
 

So her are a few more ansewers to the questions:

spark plugs
dry black / they are champion brand.(new and old)

exhaust
the exhaust dosen't smell sweet it smells a little rich
We used a computer to pull the code the first time and we also earsed
it. today I earesed it by just un pluging the battery.

THe engine light has been on for about 2 to 3 months, but I didn't
worry about it it was running good. then all of sudden the light
started to flash why I was drivinh it and started to back fire. It
seems to idel ok but the bottom end wand why your on the gas, is
sluggish and back fires and spits. but full trottle it seams to run ok.

THanks for all the help you rule.let me know if there is anything else
you can think of.

Re: engine codes what the....
 

So her are a few more ansewers to the questions:

spark plugs
dry black / they are champion brand.(new and old)

exhaust
the exhaust dosen't smell sweet it smells a little rich
We used a computer to pull the code the first time and we also earsed
it. today I earesed it by just un pluging the battery.

THe engine light has been on for about 2 to 3 months, but I didn't
worry about it it was running good. then all of sudden the light
started to flash why I was drivinh it and started to back fire. It
seems to idel ok but the bottom end wand why your on the gas, is
sluggish and back fires and spits. but full trottle it seams to run ok.

THanks for all the help you rule.let me know if there is anything else
you can think of.

Re: engine codes what the....
 

So her are a few more ansewers to the questions:

spark plugs
dry black / they are champion brand.(new and old)

exhaust
the exhaust dosen't smell sweet it smells a little rich
We used a computer to pull the code the first time and we also earsed
it. today I earesed it by just un pluging the battery.

THe engine light has been on for about 2 to 3 months, but I didn't
worry about it it was running good. then all of sudden the light
started to flash why I was drivinh it and started to back fire. It
seems to idel ok but the bottom end wand why your on the gas, is
sluggish and back fires and spits. but full trottle it seams to run ok.

THanks for all the help you rule.let me know if there is anything else
you can think of.

Re: engine codes what the....
 

jeepnfonz wrote:
> So I have on engine code on my 2001 tj sport with the 4.0 in line six.
> the code is 0301 which I believe is misfire on cylinder one. which
> makes sense it back fires run like crap and no power. I replaced the
> spark plugs(easy and cheap fix). that solved the problem till I got
> after it and it started up again same code same symtoms does anyone
> have any clue what my next step would be what would be causing this. I
> don't really understand thenew system with no cap or rotor or wires
> please help......

Take a real close look at the spark rail and check for melty spots.
Some of them develop arcs internally and that causes all sorts of problems.

--
DougW

Re: engine codes what the....
 

jeepnfonz wrote:
> So I have on engine code on my 2001 tj sport with the 4.0 in line six.
> the code is 0301 which I believe is misfire on cylinder one. which
> makes sense it back fires run like crap and no power. I replaced the
> spark plugs(easy and cheap fix). that solved the problem till I got
> after it and it started up again same code same symtoms does anyone
> have any clue what my next step would be what would be causing this. I
> don't really understand thenew system with no cap or rotor or wires
> please help......

Take a real close look at the spark rail and check for melty spots.
Some of them develop arcs internally and that causes all sorts of problems.

--
DougW

Re: engine codes what the....
 

jeepnfonz wrote:
> So I have on engine code on my 2001 tj sport with the 4.0 in line six.
> the code is 0301 which I believe is misfire on cylinder one. which
> makes sense it back fires run like crap and no power. I replaced the
> spark plugs(easy and cheap fix). that solved the problem till I got
> after it and it started up again same code same symtoms does anyone
> have any clue what my next step would be what would be causing this. I
> don't really understand thenew system with no cap or rotor or wires
> please help......

Take a real close look at the spark rail and check for melty spots.
Some of them develop arcs internally and that causes all sorts of problems.

--
DougW

Re: engine codes what the....
 

jeepnfonz wrote:
> So I have on engine code on my 2001 tj sport with the 4.0 in line six.
> the code is 0301 which I believe is misfire on cylinder one. which
> makes sense it back fires run like crap and no power. I replaced the
> spark plugs(easy and cheap fix). that solved the problem till I got
> after it and it started up again same code same symtoms does anyone
> have any clue what my next step would be what would be causing this. I
> don't really understand thenew system with no cap or rotor or wires
> please help......

Take a real close look at the spark rail and check for melty spots.
Some of them develop arcs internally and that causes all sorts of problems.

--
DougW

Re: engine codes what the....
 

did you get the coil over plug boots bac on correctly???

jeepnfonz wrote:

> So I have on engine code on my 2001 tj sport with the 4.0 in line six.
> the code is 0301 which I believe is misfire on cylinder one. which
> makes sense it back fires run like crap and no power. I replaced the
> spark plugs(easy and cheap fix). that solved the problem till I got
> after it and it started up again same code same symtoms does anyone
> have any clue what my next step would be what would be causing this. I
> don't really understand thenew system with no cap or rotor or wires
> please help......

Re: engine codes what the....
 

did you get the coil over plug boots bac on correctly???

jeepnfonz wrote:

> So I have on engine code on my 2001 tj sport with the 4.0 in line six.
> the code is 0301 which I believe is misfire on cylinder one. which
> makes sense it back fires run like crap and no power. I replaced the
> spark plugs(easy and cheap fix). that solved the problem till I got
> after it and it started up again same code same symtoms does anyone
> have any clue what my next step would be what would be causing this. I
> don't really understand thenew system with no cap or rotor or wires
> please help......

Re: engine codes what the....
 

did you get the coil over plug boots bac on correctly???

jeepnfonz wrote:

> So I have on engine code on my 2001 tj sport with the 4.0 in line six.
> the code is 0301 which I believe is misfire on cylinder one. which
> makes sense it back fires run like crap and no power. I replaced the
> spark plugs(easy and cheap fix). that solved the problem till I got
> after it and it started up again same code same symtoms does anyone
> have any clue what my next step would be what would be causing this. I
> don't really understand thenew system with no cap or rotor or wires
> please help......

Re: engine codes what the....
 

did you get the coil over plug boots bac on correctly???

jeepnfonz wrote:

> So I have on engine code on my 2001 tj sport with the 4.0 in line six.
> the code is 0301 which I believe is misfire on cylinder one. which
> makes sense it back fires run like crap and no power. I replaced the
> spark plugs(easy and cheap fix). that solved the problem till I got
> after it and it started up again same code same symtoms does anyone
> have any clue what my next step would be what would be causing this. I
> don't really understand thenew system with no cap or rotor or wires
> please help......

Re: engine codes what the....
 

philthy wrote:
> did you get the coil over plug boots bac on correctly???
>
i think that i got the boot on correctly I have taken it ogg again and
put it on to make sure of that. Can you buy just new plug boots or do
you have to by a whole new spark rail.

Also dose anyone know what the compression should be I'm going to check
that out tomorrow. I would just like to thank everyone for all the
help. It's been great. I was really hoping that someone out there has
had this problem and knew just what it was...

Re: engine codes what the....
 

philthy wrote:
> did you get the coil over plug boots bac on correctly???
>
i think that i got the boot on correctly I have taken it ogg again and
put it on to make sure of that. Can you buy just new plug boots or do
you have to by a whole new spark rail.

Also dose anyone know what the compression should be I'm going to check
that out tomorrow. I would just like to thank everyone for all the
help. It's been great. I was really hoping that someone out there has
had this problem and knew just what it was...

Re: engine codes what the....
 

philthy wrote:
> did you get the coil over plug boots bac on correctly???
>
i think that i got the boot on correctly I have taken it ogg again and
put it on to make sure of that. Can you buy just new plug boots or do
you have to by a whole new spark rail.

Also dose anyone know what the compression should be I'm going to check
that out tomorrow. I would just like to thank everyone for all the
help. It's been great. I was really hoping that someone out there has
had this problem and knew just what it was...

Re: engine codes what the....
 

philthy wrote:
> did you get the coil over plug boots bac on correctly???
>
i think that i got the boot on correctly I have taken it ogg again and
put it on to make sure of that. Can you buy just new plug boots or do
you have to by a whole new spark rail.

Also dose anyone know what the compression should be I'm going to check
that out tomorrow. I would just like to thank everyone for all the
help. It's been great. I was really hoping that someone out there has
had this problem and knew just what it was...