Re: Dropping MPG
 

On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 16:56:09 GMT, K-tron <kdooks@supercity.ns.ca>
wrote:

>On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 00:07:32 GMT, kevin.dooks@ns.sympatico.ca wrote:
>
>>Hi all, after purchasing the '04 GC I posted about a few weeks back, I
>>was initially thrilled with a combined fuel economy of 22 MPG !
>>
>>However now that the temperature is starting to drop here in the
>>frozen north, I am somewhat distressed with the current 14 MPG.
>>
>>Nothing has changed, my driving habits, routes and distances are the
>>same, the only change has been the outside temperature.
>>
>>I am thinking that I may have a sensor going a bit flakey.
>>Anyone have any thoughts ?
>>
>>
>>BTW 4.0L, 4 speed auto, 3.55 rear
>>
>>Kevin
>
>
>Thanks for the input folks, here is some more info. Yes my area does
>switch to a 'winter' blend but not for another month or so. No I do
>not use an alcohol blend of fuel ( E85 is just WRONG!! ). The brand
>and grade of fuel are the same. I calculate my MPG manually and
>compare that figure with the on-board smarts, the difference is less
>than 0.1 MPG so that doesn't account for an 8 MPG drop .
>
>The engine temp when hot is 140 C or about 195 F, I wouldn't think
>that this is too cold but I could be wrong. It is at temp after 4 or 5
>minutes.
>
>The only other thing I did was to change the plugs, the NGKs I took
>out appeared to be running OKish ( #6 seemed a bit rich) but the gap
>was over .060 ! . I have checked all electrical plugs and connectors
>just in case I accidentally disconnected something but all were OK.
>
>
>
>Kevin


OK, engine vacuum is 16 in/hg at idle in gear, I checked the brakes
for sticking calipers, all OK there, I tend to run my tires at 40 psi
year-round. I did however use Bosch Plus 4 plugs when I replaced the
NGKs. I have used Bosch plugs in Honda, Ford BB and SB engines, Chev
L6, Toyota L4, VW L4, Audi V8 and BB Dodge engines with no problems.

I would find it strange that the Bosch would not work in my 4.0L but
stranger things have been known to happen.

Any recomendations on plugs for a 4.0L ?
Or plugs to avoid ?

Kevin

Re: Dropping MPG
 

On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 16:56:09 GMT, K-tron <kdooks@supercity.ns.ca>
wrote:

>On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 00:07:32 GMT, kevin.dooks@ns.sympatico.ca wrote:
>
>>Hi all, after purchasing the '04 GC I posted about a few weeks back, I
>>was initially thrilled with a combined fuel economy of 22 MPG !
>>
>>However now that the temperature is starting to drop here in the
>>frozen north, I am somewhat distressed with the current 14 MPG.
>>
>>Nothing has changed, my driving habits, routes and distances are the
>>same, the only change has been the outside temperature.
>>
>>I am thinking that I may have a sensor going a bit flakey.
>>Anyone have any thoughts ?
>>
>>
>>BTW 4.0L, 4 speed auto, 3.55 rear
>>
>>Kevin
>
>
>Thanks for the input folks, here is some more info. Yes my area does
>switch to a 'winter' blend but not for another month or so. No I do
>not use an alcohol blend of fuel ( E85 is just WRONG!! ). The brand
>and grade of fuel are the same. I calculate my MPG manually and
>compare that figure with the on-board smarts, the difference is less
>than 0.1 MPG so that doesn't account for an 8 MPG drop .
>
>The engine temp when hot is 140 C or about 195 F, I wouldn't think
>that this is too cold but I could be wrong. It is at temp after 4 or 5
>minutes.
>
>The only other thing I did was to change the plugs, the NGKs I took
>out appeared to be running OKish ( #6 seemed a bit rich) but the gap
>was over .060 ! . I have checked all electrical plugs and connectors
>just in case I accidentally disconnected something but all were OK.
>
>
>
>Kevin


OK, engine vacuum is 16 in/hg at idle in gear, I checked the brakes
for sticking calipers, all OK there, I tend to run my tires at 40 psi
year-round. I did however use Bosch Plus 4 plugs when I replaced the
NGKs. I have used Bosch plugs in Honda, Ford BB and SB engines, Chev
L6, Toyota L4, VW L4, Audi V8 and BB Dodge engines with no problems.

I would find it strange that the Bosch would not work in my 4.0L but
stranger things have been known to happen.

Any recomendations on plugs for a 4.0L ?
Or plugs to avoid ?

Kevin

Re: Dropping MPG
 

On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 16:56:09 GMT, K-tron <kdooks@supercity.ns.ca>
wrote:

>On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 00:07:32 GMT, kevin.dooks@ns.sympatico.ca wrote:
>
>>Hi all, after purchasing the '04 GC I posted about a few weeks back, I
>>was initially thrilled with a combined fuel economy of 22 MPG !
>>
>>However now that the temperature is starting to drop here in the
>>frozen north, I am somewhat distressed with the current 14 MPG.
>>
>>Nothing has changed, my driving habits, routes and distances are the
>>same, the only change has been the outside temperature.
>>
>>I am thinking that I may have a sensor going a bit flakey.
>>Anyone have any thoughts ?
>>
>>
>>BTW 4.0L, 4 speed auto, 3.55 rear
>>
>>Kevin
>
>
>Thanks for the input folks, here is some more info. Yes my area does
>switch to a 'winter' blend but not for another month or so. No I do
>not use an alcohol blend of fuel ( E85 is just WRONG!! ). The brand
>and grade of fuel are the same. I calculate my MPG manually and
>compare that figure with the on-board smarts, the difference is less
>than 0.1 MPG so that doesn't account for an 8 MPG drop .
>
>The engine temp when hot is 140 C or about 195 F, I wouldn't think
>that this is too cold but I could be wrong. It is at temp after 4 or 5
>minutes.
>
>The only other thing I did was to change the plugs, the NGKs I took
>out appeared to be running OKish ( #6 seemed a bit rich) but the gap
>was over .060 ! . I have checked all electrical plugs and connectors
>just in case I accidentally disconnected something but all were OK.
>
>
>
>Kevin


OK, engine vacuum is 16 in/hg at idle in gear, I checked the brakes
for sticking calipers, all OK there, I tend to run my tires at 40 psi
year-round. I did however use Bosch Plus 4 plugs when I replaced the
NGKs. I have used Bosch plugs in Honda, Ford BB and SB engines, Chev
L6, Toyota L4, VW L4, Audi V8 and BB Dodge engines with no problems.

I would find it strange that the Bosch would not work in my 4.0L but
stranger things have been known to happen.

Any recomendations on plugs for a 4.0L ?
Or plugs to avoid ?

Kevin

Re: Dropping MPG
 

K-tron wrote:
>
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 16:56:09 GMT, K-tron <kdooks@supercity.ns.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 00:07:32 GMT, kevin.dooks@ns.sympatico.ca wrote:
> >
> >>Hi all, after purchasing the '04 GC I posted about a few weeks back, I
> >>was initially thrilled with a combined fuel economy of 22 MPG !
> >>
> >>However now that the temperature is starting to drop here in the
> >>frozen north, I am somewhat distressed with the current 14 MPG.
> >>
> >>Nothing has changed, my driving habits, routes and distances are the
> >>same, the only change has been the outside temperature.
> >>
> >>I am thinking that I may have a sensor going a bit flakey.
> >>Anyone have any thoughts ?
> >>
> >>
> >>BTW 4.0L, 4 speed auto, 3.55 rear
> >>
> >>Kevin
> >
> >
> >Thanks for the input folks, here is some more info. Yes my area does
> >switch to a 'winter' blend but not for another month or so. No I do
> >not use an alcohol blend of fuel ( E85 is just WRONG!! ). The brand
> >and grade of fuel are the same. I calculate my MPG manually and
> >compare that figure with the on-board smarts, the difference is less
> >than 0.1 MPG so that doesn't account for an 8 MPG drop .
> >
> >The engine temp when hot is 140 C or about 195 F, I wouldn't think
> >that this is too cold but I could be wrong. It is at temp after 4 or 5
> >minutes.
> >
> >The only other thing I did was to change the plugs, the NGKs I took
> >out appeared to be running OKish ( #6 seemed a bit rich) but the gap
> >was over .060 ! . I have checked all electrical plugs and connectors
> >just in case I accidentally disconnected something but all were OK.
> >
> >
> >
> >Kevin
>
> OK, engine vacuum is 16 in/hg at idle in gear, I checked the brakes
> for sticking calipers, all OK there, I tend to run my tires at 40 psi
> year-round. I did however use Bosch Plus 4 plugs when I replaced the
> NGKs. I have used Bosch plugs in Honda, Ford BB and SB engines, Chev
> L6, Toyota L4, VW L4, Audi V8 and BB Dodge engines with no problems.
>
> I would find it strange that the Bosch would not work in my 4.0L but
> stranger things have been known to happen.
>
> Any recomendations on plugs for a 4.0L ?
> Or plugs to avoid ?
>
> Kevin

I use Champion plugs in both my Jeeps and get about 23 mpg in the CJ7 on
the highway loaded or empty and over 24 in the Cherokee, when loaded for
camping, on the highway.

If the NGK were working well, I would go with them also.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Re: Dropping MPG
 

K-tron wrote:
>
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 16:56:09 GMT, K-tron <kdooks@supercity.ns.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 00:07:32 GMT, kevin.dooks@ns.sympatico.ca wrote:
> >
> >>Hi all, after purchasing the '04 GC I posted about a few weeks back, I
> >>was initially thrilled with a combined fuel economy of 22 MPG !
> >>
> >>However now that the temperature is starting to drop here in the
> >>frozen north, I am somewhat distressed with the current 14 MPG.
> >>
> >>Nothing has changed, my driving habits, routes and distances are the
> >>same, the only change has been the outside temperature.
> >>
> >>I am thinking that I may have a sensor going a bit flakey.
> >>Anyone have any thoughts ?
> >>
> >>
> >>BTW 4.0L, 4 speed auto, 3.55 rear
> >>
> >>Kevin
> >
> >
> >Thanks for the input folks, here is some more info. Yes my area does
> >switch to a 'winter' blend but not for another month or so. No I do
> >not use an alcohol blend of fuel ( E85 is just WRONG!! ). The brand
> >and grade of fuel are the same. I calculate my MPG manually and
> >compare that figure with the on-board smarts, the difference is less
> >than 0.1 MPG so that doesn't account for an 8 MPG drop .
> >
> >The engine temp when hot is 140 C or about 195 F, I wouldn't think
> >that this is too cold but I could be wrong. It is at temp after 4 or 5
> >minutes.
> >
> >The only other thing I did was to change the plugs, the NGKs I took
> >out appeared to be running OKish ( #6 seemed a bit rich) but the gap
> >was over .060 ! . I have checked all electrical plugs and connectors
> >just in case I accidentally disconnected something but all were OK.
> >
> >
> >
> >Kevin
>
> OK, engine vacuum is 16 in/hg at idle in gear, I checked the brakes
> for sticking calipers, all OK there, I tend to run my tires at 40 psi
> year-round. I did however use Bosch Plus 4 plugs when I replaced the
> NGKs. I have used Bosch plugs in Honda, Ford BB and SB engines, Chev
> L6, Toyota L4, VW L4, Audi V8 and BB Dodge engines with no problems.
>
> I would find it strange that the Bosch would not work in my 4.0L but
> stranger things have been known to happen.
>
> Any recomendations on plugs for a 4.0L ?
> Or plugs to avoid ?
>
> Kevin

I use Champion plugs in both my Jeeps and get about 23 mpg in the CJ7 on
the highway loaded or empty and over 24 in the Cherokee, when loaded for
camping, on the highway.

If the NGK were working well, I would go with them also.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Re: Dropping MPG
 

K-tron wrote:
>
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 16:56:09 GMT, K-tron <kdooks@supercity.ns.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 00:07:32 GMT, kevin.dooks@ns.sympatico.ca wrote:
> >
> >>Hi all, after purchasing the '04 GC I posted about a few weeks back, I
> >>was initially thrilled with a combined fuel economy of 22 MPG !
> >>
> >>However now that the temperature is starting to drop here in the
> >>frozen north, I am somewhat distressed with the current 14 MPG.
> >>
> >>Nothing has changed, my driving habits, routes and distances are the
> >>same, the only change has been the outside temperature.
> >>
> >>I am thinking that I may have a sensor going a bit flakey.
> >>Anyone have any thoughts ?
> >>
> >>
> >>BTW 4.0L, 4 speed auto, 3.55 rear
> >>
> >>Kevin
> >
> >
> >Thanks for the input folks, here is some more info. Yes my area does
> >switch to a 'winter' blend but not for another month or so. No I do
> >not use an alcohol blend of fuel ( E85 is just WRONG!! ). The brand
> >and grade of fuel are the same. I calculate my MPG manually and
> >compare that figure with the on-board smarts, the difference is less
> >than 0.1 MPG so that doesn't account for an 8 MPG drop .
> >
> >The engine temp when hot is 140 C or about 195 F, I wouldn't think
> >that this is too cold but I could be wrong. It is at temp after 4 or 5
> >minutes.
> >
> >The only other thing I did was to change the plugs, the NGKs I took
> >out appeared to be running OKish ( #6 seemed a bit rich) but the gap
> >was over .060 ! . I have checked all electrical plugs and connectors
> >just in case I accidentally disconnected something but all were OK.
> >
> >
> >
> >Kevin
>
> OK, engine vacuum is 16 in/hg at idle in gear, I checked the brakes
> for sticking calipers, all OK there, I tend to run my tires at 40 psi
> year-round. I did however use Bosch Plus 4 plugs when I replaced the
> NGKs. I have used Bosch plugs in Honda, Ford BB and SB engines, Chev
> L6, Toyota L4, VW L4, Audi V8 and BB Dodge engines with no problems.
>
> I would find it strange that the Bosch would not work in my 4.0L but
> stranger things have been known to happen.
>
> Any recomendations on plugs for a 4.0L ?
> Or plugs to avoid ?
>
> Kevin

I use Champion plugs in both my Jeeps and get about 23 mpg in the CJ7 on
the highway loaded or empty and over 24 in the Cherokee, when loaded for
camping, on the highway.

If the NGK were working well, I would go with them also.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Re: Dropping MPG
 

Kevin,

I run with the regular Bosch Platinum plugs (#4203) in my 4 liter and put
the regular 4230s in Mark's 4.7 liter and they run flawlessly.

Some people prefer copper plugs, in that case I use the Bosch Super # 7562s

I started with the Bosch Supers about 30 years ago and the regular Platinums
about 20 years ago and I've never had any reason to change back to Champions
(or any other brand) Everyone has their personal preference though.

I've considered getting the +4s next time, are you saying the mileage
dropped just after changing plugs?

Bosch guarantees the plugs to run superior to other brands and will refund
your money
http://jobs.boschusa.com/AutoParts/S...PlatinumPlus4/

You might possibly have leaking or sticky injectors
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...6/ecb3f58e.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...6/ecb3f549.jpg

It wouldn't hurt to clean the fuel system and injectors. Pat Goss on Motor
Week recommends adding a can of cleaner to a full tank of gasoline and
running that tank as low as you dare, refilling with just gasoline and
running that tank as low as you dare, then adding the cleaner to a second
tank and running that tank as low as you dare. Brands I have used and
recommend include SeaFoam, BG44k, Berryman B12 Chemtool, and Techron Cleaner
(not the Cleaner with Techron)

Throttle Body Cleaning: All this requires is a can of sensor safe spray
cleaner and an old toothbrush.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2122181169

What vacuum reading do you get in Neutral or Park? Your 16 inches is just a
tad low, recheck the idle in park and also check for a vacuum leak.


> OK, engine vacuum is 16 in/hg at idle in gear, I checked the brakes
> for sticking calipers, all OK there, I tend to run my tires at 40 psi
> year-round. I did however use Bosch Plus 4 plugs when I replaced the
> NGKs. I have used Bosch plugs in Honda, Ford BB and SB engines, Chev
> L6, Toyota L4, VW L4, Audi V8 and BB Dodge engines with no problems.
>
> I would find it strange that the Bosch would not work in my 4.0L but
> stranger things have been known to happen.
>
> Any recomendations on plugs for a 4.0L ?
> Or plugs to avoid ?
>
> Kevin
>

Re: Dropping MPG
 

Kevin,

I run with the regular Bosch Platinum plugs (#4203) in my 4 liter and put
the regular 4230s in Mark's 4.7 liter and they run flawlessly.

Some people prefer copper plugs, in that case I use the Bosch Super # 7562s

I started with the Bosch Supers about 30 years ago and the regular Platinums
about 20 years ago and I've never had any reason to change back to Champions
(or any other brand) Everyone has their personal preference though.

I've considered getting the +4s next time, are you saying the mileage
dropped just after changing plugs?

Bosch guarantees the plugs to run superior to other brands and will refund
your money
http://jobs.boschusa.com/AutoParts/S...PlatinumPlus4/

You might possibly have leaking or sticky injectors
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...6/ecb3f58e.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...6/ecb3f549.jpg

It wouldn't hurt to clean the fuel system and injectors. Pat Goss on Motor
Week recommends adding a can of cleaner to a full tank of gasoline and
running that tank as low as you dare, refilling with just gasoline and
running that tank as low as you dare, then adding the cleaner to a second
tank and running that tank as low as you dare. Brands I have used and
recommend include SeaFoam, BG44k, Berryman B12 Chemtool, and Techron Cleaner
(not the Cleaner with Techron)

Throttle Body Cleaning: All this requires is a can of sensor safe spray
cleaner and an old toothbrush.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2122181169

What vacuum reading do you get in Neutral or Park? Your 16 inches is just a
tad low, recheck the idle in park and also check for a vacuum leak.


> OK, engine vacuum is 16 in/hg at idle in gear, I checked the brakes
> for sticking calipers, all OK there, I tend to run my tires at 40 psi
> year-round. I did however use Bosch Plus 4 plugs when I replaced the
> NGKs. I have used Bosch plugs in Honda, Ford BB and SB engines, Chev
> L6, Toyota L4, VW L4, Audi V8 and BB Dodge engines with no problems.
>
> I would find it strange that the Bosch would not work in my 4.0L but
> stranger things have been known to happen.
>
> Any recomendations on plugs for a 4.0L ?
> Or plugs to avoid ?
>
> Kevin
>

Re: Dropping MPG
 

Kevin,

I run with the regular Bosch Platinum plugs (#4203) in my 4 liter and put
the regular 4230s in Mark's 4.7 liter and they run flawlessly.

Some people prefer copper plugs, in that case I use the Bosch Super # 7562s

I started with the Bosch Supers about 30 years ago and the regular Platinums
about 20 years ago and I've never had any reason to change back to Champions
(or any other brand) Everyone has their personal preference though.

I've considered getting the +4s next time, are you saying the mileage
dropped just after changing plugs?

Bosch guarantees the plugs to run superior to other brands and will refund
your money
http://jobs.boschusa.com/AutoParts/S...PlatinumPlus4/

You might possibly have leaking or sticky injectors
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...6/ecb3f58e.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...6/ecb3f549.jpg

It wouldn't hurt to clean the fuel system and injectors. Pat Goss on Motor
Week recommends adding a can of cleaner to a full tank of gasoline and
running that tank as low as you dare, refilling with just gasoline and
running that tank as low as you dare, then adding the cleaner to a second
tank and running that tank as low as you dare. Brands I have used and
recommend include SeaFoam, BG44k, Berryman B12 Chemtool, and Techron Cleaner
(not the Cleaner with Techron)

Throttle Body Cleaning: All this requires is a can of sensor safe spray
cleaner and an old toothbrush.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2122181169

What vacuum reading do you get in Neutral or Park? Your 16 inches is just a
tad low, recheck the idle in park and also check for a vacuum leak.


> OK, engine vacuum is 16 in/hg at idle in gear, I checked the brakes
> for sticking calipers, all OK there, I tend to run my tires at 40 psi
> year-round. I did however use Bosch Plus 4 plugs when I replaced the
> NGKs. I have used Bosch plugs in Honda, Ford BB and SB engines, Chev
> L6, Toyota L4, VW L4, Audi V8 and BB Dodge engines with no problems.
>
> I would find it strange that the Bosch would not work in my 4.0L but
> stranger things have been known to happen.
>
> Any recomendations on plugs for a 4.0L ?
> Or plugs to avoid ?
>
> Kevin
>

Re: Dropping MPG
 

Hi Doug,
I found what you sent me with the excel you said:
http://www.----------.com/temp/dougGasMinder.jpg I just wanted to remind
everyone this is the only way you may accurately compute your mileage as
we can see due to probably the fill, angle you weren't able to complete
fill a couple times.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

DougW wrote:
>
> Not a real detailed log, unless I'm driving on buisness. I use
> excel to keep track of milage and maintenance.