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Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
We got two threads going here....
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up past the rings. How does the oil on the dipstick smell? Mike William Oliveri wrote: > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element. > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from > one cylinder? > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around, > wouldn't it show up just at idle? > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca... > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud > > following you.... > > > > Mike > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and > still > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only > > > after I drive it. > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark > is > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' > the > > > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie > the > > > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same > put > > > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and > test > > > > > the compression again. > > > > > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the > piston > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then > you > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression > of > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > > > > cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, > suspect > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and > then. > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. > If I > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a > thousand > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more > like > > > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available > (GM > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand > rpm I > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and > I > > > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. > However, > > > in > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it > > > requred > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take > out > > > the > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I > didn't > > > return > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I > > > didn't > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original > > > places and > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this > because > > > I took > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said > the > > > noise > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was > chasing > > > a > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it > > > wasn't this > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and > this > > > was a > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve > seal > > > from > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the > all > > > went > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > > > compression > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the > guage). > > > This > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which > was > > > 110. > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > > > mechanic > > > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll > go > > > and get > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind > doing > > > the > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be > sure > > > it's > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression > tester > > > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a > leak. > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing > around > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a > > > valve > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one > with > > > the > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push > rod > > > and > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my > > > valve > > > > > > seals > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect > condition. > > > When I > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up > > > while I > > > > > > took > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each > valve > > > I > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > > > attached a > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the > air > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then > move > > > the > > > > > > stem > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > > > noticeable > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and > > > which is > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had > play. > > > The > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the > work > > > I had > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the > leak > > > down > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I > heard > > > only > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 > with > > > the > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have > been > > > released > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the > leak > > > down > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this > situation if > > > #2 > > > > > > leak > > > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders > are > > > good, > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. > A > > > lot of > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the > wall on > > > time. > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and > find > > > some > > > > > > worse > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment > or > > > might > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and > go > > > to > > > > > > option > > > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, > clean > > > it, > > > > > > bore > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. > > > Turn > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put > it > > > in. > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 > year > > > 70,000 > > > > > > mile > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 > mile > > > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower > > > scope of > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever > dealt > > > with > > > > > > RJE > > > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above > are > > > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
We got two threads going here....
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up past the rings. How does the oil on the dipstick smell? Mike William Oliveri wrote: > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element. > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from > one cylinder? > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around, > wouldn't it show up just at idle? > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca... > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud > > following you.... > > > > Mike > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and > still > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only > > > after I drive it. > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark > is > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' > the > > > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie > the > > > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same > put > > > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and > test > > > > > the compression again. > > > > > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the > piston > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then > you > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression > of > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > > > > cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, > suspect > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and > then. > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. > If I > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a > thousand > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more > like > > > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available > (GM > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand > rpm I > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and > I > > > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. > However, > > > in > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it > > > requred > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take > out > > > the > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I > didn't > > > return > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I > > > didn't > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original > > > places and > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this > because > > > I took > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said > the > > > noise > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was > chasing > > > a > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it > > > wasn't this > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and > this > > > was a > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve > seal > > > from > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the > all > > > went > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > > > compression > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the > guage). > > > This > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which > was > > > 110. > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > > > mechanic > > > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll > go > > > and get > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind > doing > > > the > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be > sure > > > it's > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression > tester > > > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a > leak. > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing > around > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a > > > valve > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one > with > > > the > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push > rod > > > and > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my > > > valve > > > > > > seals > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect > condition. > > > When I > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up > > > while I > > > > > > took > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each > valve > > > I > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > > > attached a > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the > air > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then > move > > > the > > > > > > stem > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > > > noticeable > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and > > > which is > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had > play. > > > The > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the > work > > > I had > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the > leak > > > down > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I > heard > > > only > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 > with > > > the > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have > been > > > released > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the > leak > > > down > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this > situation if > > > #2 > > > > > > leak > > > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders > are > > > good, > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. > A > > > lot of > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the > wall on > > > time. > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and > find > > > some > > > > > > worse > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment > or > > > might > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and > go > > > to > > > > > > option > > > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, > clean > > > it, > > > > > > bore > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. > > > Turn > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put > it > > > in. > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 > year > > > 70,000 > > > > > > mile > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 > mile > > > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower > > > scope of > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever > dealt > > > with > > > > > > RJE > > > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above > are > > > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
We got two threads going here....
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up past the rings. How does the oil on the dipstick smell? Mike William Oliveri wrote: > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element. > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from > one cylinder? > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around, > wouldn't it show up just at idle? > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca... > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud > > following you.... > > > > Mike > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and > still > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only > > > after I drive it. > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark > is > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' > the > > > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie > the > > > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same > put > > > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and > test > > > > > the compression again. > > > > > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the > piston > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then > you > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression > of > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > > > > cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, > suspect > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and > then. > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. > If I > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a > thousand > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more > like > > > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available > (GM > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand > rpm I > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and > I > > > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. > However, > > > in > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it > > > requred > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take > out > > > the > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I > didn't > > > return > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I > > > didn't > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original > > > places and > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this > because > > > I took > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said > the > > > noise > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was > chasing > > > a > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it > > > wasn't this > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and > this > > > was a > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve > seal > > > from > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the > all > > > went > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > > > compression > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the > guage). > > > This > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which > was > > > 110. > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > > > mechanic > > > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll > go > > > and get > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind > doing > > > the > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be > sure > > > it's > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression > tester > > > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a > leak. > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing > around > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a > > > valve > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one > with > > > the > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push > rod > > > and > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my > > > valve > > > > > > seals > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect > condition. > > > When I > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up > > > while I > > > > > > took > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each > valve > > > I > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > > > attached a > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the > air > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then > move > > > the > > > > > > stem > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > > > noticeable > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and > > > which is > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had > play. > > > The > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the > work > > > I had > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the > leak > > > down > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I > heard > > > only > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 > with > > > the > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have > been > > > released > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the > leak > > > down > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this > situation if > > > #2 > > > > > > leak > > > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders > are > > > good, > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. > A > > > lot of > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the > wall on > > > time. > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and > find > > > some > > > > > > worse > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment > or > > > might > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and > go > > > to > > > > > > option > > > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, > clean > > > it, > > > > > > bore > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. > > > Turn > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put > it > > > in. > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 > year > > > 70,000 > > > > > > mile > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 > mile > > > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower > > > scope of > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever > dealt > > > with > > > > > > RJE > > > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above > are > > > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till
tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a gas smell? "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca... > We got two threads going here.... > > I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or > no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up > past the rings. > > How does the oil on the dipstick smell? > > Mike > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my > > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element. > > > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from > > one cylinder? > > > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting > > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around, > > wouldn't it show up just at idle? > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca... > > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud > > > following you.... > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and > > still > > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only > > > > after I drive it. > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark > > is > > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' > > the > > > > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie > > the > > > > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same > > put > > > > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and > > test > > > > > > the compression again. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the > > piston > > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then > > you > > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression > > of > > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > > > > > cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, > > suspect > > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and > > then. > > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. > > If I > > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a > > thousand > > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more > > like > > > > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available > > (GM > > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand > > rpm I > > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and > > I > > > > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. > > However, > > > > in > > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it > > > > requred > > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take > > out > > > > the > > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I > > didn't > > > > return > > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I > > > > didn't > > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original > > > > places and > > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this > > because > > > > I took > > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said > > the > > > > noise > > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was > > chasing > > > > a > > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it > > > > wasn't this > > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and > > this > > > > was a > > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve > > seal > > > > from > > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the > > all > > > > went > > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > > > > compression > > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the > > guage). > > > > This > > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which > > was > > > > 110. > > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > > > > mechanic > > > > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll > > go > > > > and get > > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind > > doing > > > > the > > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be > > sure > > > > it's > > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression > > tester > > > > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a > > leak. > > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing > > around > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a > > > > valve > > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one > > with > > > > the > > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push > > rod > > > > and > > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my > > > > valve > > > > > > > seals > > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect > > condition. > > > > When I > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up > > > > while I > > > > > > > took > > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each > > valve > > > > I > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > > > > attached a > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the > > air > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then > > move > > > > the > > > > > > > stem > > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > > > > noticeable > > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and > > > > which is > > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had > > play. > > > > The > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the > > work > > > > I had > > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the > > leak > > > > down > > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I > > heard > > > > only > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 > > with > > > > the > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have > > been > > > > released > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the > > leak > > > > down > > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this > > situation if > > > > #2 > > > > > > > leak > > > > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders > > are > > > > good, > > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. > > A > > > > lot of > > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the > > wall on > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and > > find > > > > some > > > > > > > worse > > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment > > or > > > > might > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and > > go > > > > to > > > > > > > option > > > > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, > > clean > > > > it, > > > > > > > bore > > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. > > > > Turn > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put > > it > > > > in. > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 > > year > > > > 70,000 > > > > > > > mile > > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 > > mile > > > > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower > > > > scope of > > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever > > dealt > > > > with > > > > > > > RJE > > > > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above > > are > > > > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till
tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a gas smell? "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca... > We got two threads going here.... > > I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or > no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up > past the rings. > > How does the oil on the dipstick smell? > > Mike > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my > > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element. > > > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from > > one cylinder? > > > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting > > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around, > > wouldn't it show up just at idle? > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca... > > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud > > > following you.... > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and > > still > > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only > > > > after I drive it. > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark > > is > > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' > > the > > > > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie > > the > > > > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same > > put > > > > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and > > test > > > > > > the compression again. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the > > piston > > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then > > you > > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression > > of > > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > > > > > cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, > > suspect > > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and > > then. > > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. > > If I > > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a > > thousand > > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more > > like > > > > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available > > (GM > > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand > > rpm I > > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and > > I > > > > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. > > However, > > > > in > > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it > > > > requred > > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take > > out > > > > the > > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I > > didn't > > > > return > > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I > > > > didn't > > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original > > > > places and > > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this > > because > > > > I took > > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said > > the > > > > noise > > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was > > chasing > > > > a > > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it > > > > wasn't this > > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and > > this > > > > was a > > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve > > seal > > > > from > > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the > > all > > > > went > > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > > > > compression > > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the > > guage). > > > > This > > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which > > was > > > > 110. > > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > > > > mechanic > > > > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll > > go > > > > and get > > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind > > doing > > > > the > > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be > > sure > > > > it's > > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression > > tester > > > > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a > > leak. > > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing > > around > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a > > > > valve > > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one > > with > > > > the > > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push > > rod > > > > and > > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my > > > > valve > > > > > > > seals > > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect > > condition. > > > > When I > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up > > > > while I > > > > > > > took > > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each > > valve > > > > I > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > > > > attached a > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the > > air > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then > > move > > > > the > > > > > > > stem > > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > > > > noticeable > > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and > > > > which is > > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had > > play. > > > > The > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the > > work > > > > I had > > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the > > leak > > > > down > > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I > > heard > > > > only > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 > > with > > > > the > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have > > been > > > > released > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the > > leak > > > > down > > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this > > situation if > > > > #2 > > > > > > > leak > > > > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders > > are > > > > good, > > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. > > A > > > > lot of > > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the > > wall on > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and > > find > > > > some > > > > > > > worse > > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment > > or > > > > might > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and > > go > > > > to > > > > > > > option > > > > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, > > clean > > > > it, > > > > > > > bore > > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. > > > > Turn > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put > > it > > > > in. > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 > > year > > > > 70,000 > > > > > > > mile > > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 > > mile > > > > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower > > > > scope of > > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever > > dealt > > > > with > > > > > > > RJE > > > > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above > > are > > > > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till
tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a gas smell? "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca... > We got two threads going here.... > > I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or > no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up > past the rings. > > How does the oil on the dipstick smell? > > Mike > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my > > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element. > > > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from > > one cylinder? > > > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting > > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around, > > wouldn't it show up just at idle? > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca... > > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud > > > following you.... > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and > > still > > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only > > > > after I drive it. > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark > > is > > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the > > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' > > the > > > > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie > > the > > > > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same > > put > > > > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a > > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and > > test > > > > > > the compression again. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the > > piston > > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then > > you > > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression > > of > > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all > > > > > > cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, > > suspect > > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and > > then. > > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. > > If I > > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a > > thousand > > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more > > like > > > > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right > > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available > > (GM > > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand > > rpm I > > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and > > I > > > > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. > > However, > > > > in > > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it > > > > requred > > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take > > out > > > > the > > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I > > didn't > > > > return > > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I > > > > didn't > > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original > > > > places and > > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this > > because > > > > I took > > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said > > the > > > > noise > > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was > > chasing > > > > a > > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it > > > > wasn't this > > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and > > this > > > > was a > > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve > > seal > > > > from > > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the > > all > > > > went > > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > > > > compression > > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the > > guage). > > > > This > > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which > > was > > > > 110. > > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the > > > > mechanic > > > > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll > > go > > > > and get > > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind > > doing > > > > the > > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be > > sure > > > > it's > > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression > > tester > > > > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a > > leak. > > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing > > around > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a > > > > valve > > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one > > with > > > > the > > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push > > rod > > > > and > > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my > > > > valve > > > > > > > seals > > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect > > condition. > > > > When I > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up > > > > while I > > > > > > > took > > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each > > valve > > > > I > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > > > > attached a > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the > > air > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then > > move > > > > the > > > > > > > stem > > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some > > > > noticeable > > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and > > > > which is > > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had > > play. > > > > The > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the > > work > > > > I had > > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the > > leak > > > > down > > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I > > heard > > > > only > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 > > with > > > > the > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have > > been > > > > released > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the > > leak > > > > down > > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this > > situation if > > > > #2 > > > > > > > leak > > > > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders > > are > > > > good, > > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. > > A > > > > lot of > > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the > > wall on > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and > > find > > > > some > > > > > > > worse > > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment > > or > > > > might > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and > > go > > > > to > > > > > > > option > > > > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, > > clean > > > > it, > > > > > > > bore > > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. > > > > Turn > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put > > it > > > > in. > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 > > year > > > > 70,000 > > > > > > > mile > > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 > > mile > > > > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower > > > > scope of > > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever > > dealt > > > > with > > > > > > > RJE > > > > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above > > are > > > > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Yes, if you have a stuck injector it will wash down the cylinder and may
contaminate the oil with gas. Same for the plug, give it a smell after a run. Mike William Oliveri wrote: > > Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till > tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a > gas smell? > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca... > > We got two threads going here.... > > > > I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or > > no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up > > past the rings. > > > > How does the oil on the dipstick smell? > > > > Mike > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my > > > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element. > > > > > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this > from > > > one cylinder? > > > > > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep > getting > > > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing > around, > > > wouldn't it show up just at idle? > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca... > > > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue > cloud > > > > following you.... > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and > > > still > > > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, > only > > > > > after I drive it. > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of > spark > > > is > > > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of > the > > > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue > 'if' > > > the > > > > > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then > hold/tie > > > the > > > > > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the > same > > > put > > > > > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then > put a > > > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole > and > > > test > > > > > > > the compression again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with > the > > > piston > > > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, > then > > > you > > > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the > compression > > > of > > > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on > all > > > > > > > cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, > > > suspect > > > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now > and > > > then. > > > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it > easy. > > > If I > > > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a > > > thousand > > > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more > > > like > > > > > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or > right > > > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs > available > > > (GM > > > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple > thousand > > > rpm I > > > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm > and > > > I > > > > > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. > > > However, > > > > > in > > > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on > it > > > > > requred > > > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't > take > > > out > > > > > the > > > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I > > > didn't > > > > > return > > > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. > I > > > > > didn't > > > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the > original > > > > > places and > > > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this > > > because > > > > > I took > > > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop > said > > > the > > > > > noise > > > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was > > > chasing > > > > > a > > > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and > it > > > > > wasn't this > > > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this > and > > > this > > > > > was a > > > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the > valve > > > seal > > > > > from > > > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, > the > > > all > > > > > went > > > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > > > > > compression > > > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the > > > guage). > > > > > This > > > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 > which > > > was > > > > > 110. > > > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what > the > > > > > mechanic > > > > > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? > I'll > > > go > > > > > and get > > > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind > > > doing > > > > > the > > > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I > be > > > sure > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression > > > tester > > > > > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have > a > > > leak. > > > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing > > > around > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you > need a > > > > > valve > > > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead > push > > > rod > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in > '00 > > > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I > rechecked my > > > > > valve > > > > > > > > seals > > > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect > > > condition. > > > > > When I > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve > up > > > > > while I > > > > > > > > took > > > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For > each > > > valve > > > > > I > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > > > > > attached a > > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released > the > > > air > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can > then > > > move > > > > > the > > > > > > > > stem > > > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt > some > > > > > noticeable > > > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake > and > > > > > which is > > > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head > had > > > play. > > > > > The > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with > the > > > work > > > > > I had > > > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when > the > > > leak > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 > I > > > heard > > > > > only > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked > #1 > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have > > > been > > > > > released > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > > > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with > the > > > leak > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this > > > situation if > > > > > #2 > > > > > > > > leak > > > > > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 > cylinders > > > are > > > > > good, > > > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with > it. > > > A > > > > > lot of > > > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the > > > wall on > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there > and > > > find > > > > > some > > > > > > > > worse > > > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or > equipment > > > or > > > > > might > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed > and > > > go > > > > > to > > > > > > > > option > > > > > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the > engine, > > > clean > > > > > it, > > > > > > > > bore > > > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k > installed. > > > > > Turn > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to > put > > > it > > > > > in. > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a > 7 > > > year > > > > > 70,000 > > > > > > > > mile > > > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to > JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year > 36,000 > > > mile > > > > > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > > > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the > narrower > > > > > scope of > > > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone > ever > > > dealt > > > > > with > > > > > > > > RJE > > > > > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written > above > > > are > > > > > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Yes, if you have a stuck injector it will wash down the cylinder and may
contaminate the oil with gas. Same for the plug, give it a smell after a run. Mike William Oliveri wrote: > > Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till > tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a > gas smell? > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca... > > We got two threads going here.... > > > > I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or > > no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up > > past the rings. > > > > How does the oil on the dipstick smell? > > > > Mike > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my > > > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element. > > > > > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this > from > > > one cylinder? > > > > > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep > getting > > > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing > around, > > > wouldn't it show up just at idle? > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca... > > > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue > cloud > > > > following you.... > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and > > > still > > > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, > only > > > > > after I drive it. > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of > spark > > > is > > > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of > the > > > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue > 'if' > > > the > > > > > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then > hold/tie > > > the > > > > > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the > same > > > put > > > > > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then > put a > > > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole > and > > > test > > > > > > > the compression again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with > the > > > piston > > > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, > then > > > you > > > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the > compression > > > of > > > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on > all > > > > > > > cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, > > > suspect > > > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now > and > > > then. > > > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it > easy. > > > If I > > > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a > > > thousand > > > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more > > > like > > > > > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or > right > > > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs > available > > > (GM > > > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple > thousand > > > rpm I > > > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm > and > > > I > > > > > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. > > > However, > > > > > in > > > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on > it > > > > > requred > > > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't > take > > > out > > > > > the > > > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I > > > didn't > > > > > return > > > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. > I > > > > > didn't > > > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the > original > > > > > places and > > > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this > > > because > > > > > I took > > > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop > said > > > the > > > > > noise > > > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was > > > chasing > > > > > a > > > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and > it > > > > > wasn't this > > > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this > and > > > this > > > > > was a > > > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the > valve > > > seal > > > > > from > > > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, > the > > > all > > > > > went > > > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > > > > > compression > > > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the > > > guage). > > > > > This > > > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 > which > > > was > > > > > 110. > > > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what > the > > > > > mechanic > > > > > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? > I'll > > > go > > > > > and get > > > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind > > > doing > > > > > the > > > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I > be > > > sure > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression > > > tester > > > > > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have > a > > > leak. > > > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing > > > around > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you > need a > > > > > valve > > > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead > push > > > rod > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in > '00 > > > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I > rechecked my > > > > > valve > > > > > > > > seals > > > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect > > > condition. > > > > > When I > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve > up > > > > > while I > > > > > > > > took > > > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For > each > > > valve > > > > > I > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > > > > > attached a > > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released > the > > > air > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can > then > > > move > > > > > the > > > > > > > > stem > > > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt > some > > > > > noticeable > > > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake > and > > > > > which is > > > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head > had > > > play. > > > > > The > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with > the > > > work > > > > > I had > > > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when > the > > > leak > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 > I > > > heard > > > > > only > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked > #1 > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have > > > been > > > > > released > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > > > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with > the > > > leak > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this > > > situation if > > > > > #2 > > > > > > > > leak > > > > > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 > cylinders > > > are > > > > > good, > > > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with > it. > > > A > > > > > lot of > > > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the > > > wall on > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there > and > > > find > > > > > some > > > > > > > > worse > > > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or > equipment > > > or > > > > > might > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed > and > > > go > > > > > to > > > > > > > > option > > > > > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the > engine, > > > clean > > > > > it, > > > > > > > > bore > > > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k > installed. > > > > > Turn > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to > put > > > it > > > > > in. > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a > 7 > > > year > > > > > 70,000 > > > > > > > > mile > > > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to > JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year > 36,000 > > > mile > > > > > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > > > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the > narrower > > > > > scope of > > > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone > ever > > > dealt > > > > > with > > > > > > > > RJE > > > > > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written > above > > > are > > > > > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Yes, if you have a stuck injector it will wash down the cylinder and may
contaminate the oil with gas. Same for the plug, give it a smell after a run. Mike William Oliveri wrote: > > Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till > tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a > gas smell? > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca... > > We got two threads going here.... > > > > I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or > > no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up > > past the rings. > > > > How does the oil on the dipstick smell? > > > > Mike > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my > > > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element. > > > > > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this > from > > > one cylinder? > > > > > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep > getting > > > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing > around, > > > wouldn't it show up just at idle? > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca... > > > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue > cloud > > > > following you.... > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and > > > still > > > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, > only > > > > > after I drive it. > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of > spark > > > is > > > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder? > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of > the > > > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue > 'if' > > > the > > > > > > > compression is strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then > hold/tie > > > the > > > > > > > throttle wide open. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the > same > > > put > > > > > > > it back together and enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then > put a > > > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole > and > > > test > > > > > > > the compression again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with > the > > > piston > > > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, > then > > > you > > > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the > compression > > > of > > > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on > all > > > > > > > cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, > > > suspect > > > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now > and > > > then. > > > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it > easy. > > > If I > > > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a > > > thousand > > > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more > > > like > > > > > > > 500 miles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or > right > > > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs > available > > > (GM > > > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple > thousand > > > rpm I > > > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm > and > > > I > > > > > > > was told it was from valve float.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. > > > However, > > > > > in > > > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on > it > > > > > requred > > > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't > take > > > out > > > > > the > > > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I > > > didn't > > > > > return > > > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. > I > > > > > didn't > > > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the > original > > > > > places and > > > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this > > > because > > > > > I took > > > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop > said > > > the > > > > > noise > > > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was > > > chasing > > > > > a > > > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and > it > > > > > wasn't this > > > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this > and > > > this > > > > > was a > > > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the > valve > > > seal > > > > > from > > > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, > the > > > all > > > > > went > > > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find > > > > > compression > > > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the > > > guage). > > > > > This > > > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 > which > > > was > > > > > 110. > > > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what > the > > > > > mechanic > > > > > > > > read which was 150 psi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? > I'll > > > go > > > > > and get > > > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind > > > doing > > > > > the > > > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I > be > > > sure > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression > > > tester > > > > > > > > > comes.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have > a > > > leak. > > > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing > > > around > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you > need a > > > > > valve > > > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead > push > > > rod > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in > '00 > > > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I > rechecked my > > > > > valve > > > > > > > > seals > > > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect > > > condition. > > > > > When I > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve > up > > > > > while I > > > > > > > > took > > > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For > each > > > valve > > > > > I > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and > > > > > attached a > > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released > the > > > air > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can > then > > > move > > > > > the > > > > > > > > stem > > > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt > some > > > > > noticeable > > > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake > and > > > > > which is > > > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head > had > > > play. > > > > > The > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with > the > > > work > > > > > I had > > > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > > > on this valve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when > the > > > leak > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 > I > > > heard > > > > > only > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked > #1 > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have > > > been > > > > > released > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long > > > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with > the > > > leak > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this > > > situation if > > > > > #2 > > > > > > > > leak > > > > > > > > > > down is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 > cylinders > > > are > > > > > good, > > > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with > it. > > > A > > > > > lot of > > > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the > > > wall on > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there > and > > > find > > > > > some > > > > > > > > worse > > > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or > equipment > > > or > > > > > might > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed > and > > > go > > > > > to > > > > > > > > option > > > > > > > > > > #2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the > engine, > > > clean > > > > > it, > > > > > > > > bore > > > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k > installed. > > > > > Turn > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to > put > > > it > > > > > in. > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a > 7 > > > year > > > > > 70,000 > > > > > > > > mile > > > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to > JasperEngines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year > 36,000 > > > mile > > > > > > > > warranty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of > > > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the > narrower > > > > > scope of > > > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone > ever > > > dealt > > > > > with > > > > > > > > RJE > > > > > > > > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written > above > > > are > > > > > > > > welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Hi Mike,
I'm with you, the hand held compression tester tells me all I need to know. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Mike Romain wrote: > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > comes.... > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > job. My guess still seems right... > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Hi Mike,
I'm with you, the hand held compression tester tells me all I need to know. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Mike Romain wrote: > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > comes.... > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > job. My guess still seems right... > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Hi Mike,
I'm with you, the hand held compression tester tells me all I need to know. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Mike Romain wrote: > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > comes.... > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > job. My guess still seems right... > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
> Is this the place you're talking about?
> >Orange Engine Rebuilding > Address: 1911 E Ball Rd, Anaheim, CA 92805 > Phone: (714) 635-4030 Yes. Robert Bills KG6LMV Orange County CA http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm http://www.RobertBills.com |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
> Is this the place you're talking about?
> >Orange Engine Rebuilding > Address: 1911 E Ball Rd, Anaheim, CA 92805 > Phone: (714) 635-4030 Yes. Robert Bills KG6LMV Orange County CA http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm http://www.RobertBills.com |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
> Is this the place you're talking about?
> >Orange Engine Rebuilding > Address: 1911 E Ball Rd, Anaheim, CA 92805 > Phone: (714) 635-4030 Yes. Robert Bills KG6LMV Orange County CA http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm http://www.RobertBills.com |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
If your comp gauge doesn't hold, it's probably the check
valve leaking or missing - Same valve as a tire Schrader valve - use a two-pronged tire valve tool to unscrew it and screw a new one in. OR swing by a tire shop and ask them to put a new valve in your compression gauge for you. Cost should be Zero or very nearly so. When you do your comp tests: Ground coil hi tension lead or disconnect positive low-voltage lead from the coil. Remove ALL the sparkplugs at once. Have a pad to write down what you get for a high reading. Throttle wide open for all tests. Turn engine over while watching gauge needle - don't stop until at least a couple revolutions after the highest reading. Do all of 'em, then squirt some SAE 30 oil (preferably, or 40 but you CAN use any engine oil) in half the holes and spin it over a couple turns. Check compression on those holes. Squirt and check other holes. If you have one that is down, put the sparkplug back into the hole NEXT to it and try the low one again - No change? then put the sparkplug into the hole on the other side of it and try again. If adding the plug to the hole either side of the hole in question causes an appreciable increase in compression, you have a leak between cylinders - most likely a head gasket. If adding oil gets you from say, 20psi up to 90psi or similar, expect rings not sealing. Ring problems don't normally occur in only one cylinder unless something was ingested and got into that hole, but then you prolly have a bent valve and a hole in the piston! I'm just passing through here - my last Jeep was a WW2 and some 30 years ago, but this IS an inline 6cyl you're discussing here isn't it? They usually have the intake ports grouped - that is, #1 intake is the second valve and #2 intake is the first valve. Look at how the exhaust manifold bolts on - Is there a single "pipe" (I realize it's probably a casting) at each end and all the other connections are wider? If so, it goes E-I-I-E-E-I-I-E-E-I-I-E. Further notes: Do all your checks with the same compression gauge. Don't expect anything you get to correspond with what somebody else gets with their compression gauge or a different engine. You are looking at the relative values on your engine. When discussing this with anybody else, you need to tell them what your "highs" are as well as your "lows." One compression gauge may read 100 where another one might read 120. Also, when you add oil, don't let a lot of time lapse before the comp test. Ideally you would squirt one hole, turn two revolutions, run test; then suirt the next hole, turn two revolutions, run test. Be consistent in how you do it each time. Also make a mental note if one or two take a lot longer to pump up, but get up to a relatively high value. Hope I've helped! William Oliveri <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message news:c05kpf$12n9hs$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de... > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110. > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic > read which was 150 psi. > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > Thanks, > > Bill > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > comes.... > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > seals > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I > did > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I > took > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > also > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a > long > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in > the > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the > stem > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The > one > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had > done > > > on this valve. > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only > a > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the > same > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released > so > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2 > leak > > > down is bad. > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good, > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time. > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some > worse > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might > get > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > option > > > #2. > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it, > bore > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > around > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > They > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000 > mile > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > warranty. > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with > RJE > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > welcome. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bill > > |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
If your comp gauge doesn't hold, it's probably the check
valve leaking or missing - Same valve as a tire Schrader valve - use a two-pronged tire valve tool to unscrew it and screw a new one in. OR swing by a tire shop and ask them to put a new valve in your compression gauge for you. Cost should be Zero or very nearly so. When you do your comp tests: Ground coil hi tension lead or disconnect positive low-voltage lead from the coil. Remove ALL the sparkplugs at once. Have a pad to write down what you get for a high reading. Throttle wide open for all tests. Turn engine over while watching gauge needle - don't stop until at least a couple revolutions after the highest reading. Do all of 'em, then squirt some SAE 30 oil (preferably, or 40 but you CAN use any engine oil) in half the holes and spin it over a couple turns. Check compression on those holes. Squirt and check other holes. If you have one that is down, put the sparkplug back into the hole NEXT to it and try the low one again - No change? then put the sparkplug into the hole on the other side of it and try again. If adding the plug to the hole either side of the hole in question causes an appreciable increase in compression, you have a leak between cylinders - most likely a head gasket. If adding oil gets you from say, 20psi up to 90psi or similar, expect rings not sealing. Ring problems don't normally occur in only one cylinder unless something was ingested and got into that hole, but then you prolly have a bent valve and a hole in the piston! I'm just passing through here - my last Jeep was a WW2 and some 30 years ago, but this IS an inline 6cyl you're discussing here isn't it? They usually have the intake ports grouped - that is, #1 intake is the second valve and #2 intake is the first valve. Look at how the exhaust manifold bolts on - Is there a single "pipe" (I realize it's probably a casting) at each end and all the other connections are wider? If so, it goes E-I-I-E-E-I-I-E-E-I-I-E. Further notes: Do all your checks with the same compression gauge. Don't expect anything you get to correspond with what somebody else gets with their compression gauge or a different engine. You are looking at the relative values on your engine. When discussing this with anybody else, you need to tell them what your "highs" are as well as your "lows." One compression gauge may read 100 where another one might read 120. Also, when you add oil, don't let a lot of time lapse before the comp test. Ideally you would squirt one hole, turn two revolutions, run test; then suirt the next hole, turn two revolutions, run test. Be consistent in how you do it each time. Also make a mental note if one or two take a lot longer to pump up, but get up to a relatively high value. Hope I've helped! William Oliveri <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message news:c05kpf$12n9hs$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de... > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110. > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic > read which was 150 psi. > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > Thanks, > > Bill > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > comes.... > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > seals > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I > did > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I > took > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > also > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a > long > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in > the > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the > stem > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The > one > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had > done > > > on this valve. > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only > a > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the > same > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released > so > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2 > leak > > > down is bad. > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good, > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time. > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some > worse > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might > get > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > option > > > #2. > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it, > bore > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > around > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > They > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000 > mile > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > warranty. > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with > RJE > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > welcome. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bill > > |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
If your comp gauge doesn't hold, it's probably the check
valve leaking or missing - Same valve as a tire Schrader valve - use a two-pronged tire valve tool to unscrew it and screw a new one in. OR swing by a tire shop and ask them to put a new valve in your compression gauge for you. Cost should be Zero or very nearly so. When you do your comp tests: Ground coil hi tension lead or disconnect positive low-voltage lead from the coil. Remove ALL the sparkplugs at once. Have a pad to write down what you get for a high reading. Throttle wide open for all tests. Turn engine over while watching gauge needle - don't stop until at least a couple revolutions after the highest reading. Do all of 'em, then squirt some SAE 30 oil (preferably, or 40 but you CAN use any engine oil) in half the holes and spin it over a couple turns. Check compression on those holes. Squirt and check other holes. If you have one that is down, put the sparkplug back into the hole NEXT to it and try the low one again - No change? then put the sparkplug into the hole on the other side of it and try again. If adding the plug to the hole either side of the hole in question causes an appreciable increase in compression, you have a leak between cylinders - most likely a head gasket. If adding oil gets you from say, 20psi up to 90psi or similar, expect rings not sealing. Ring problems don't normally occur in only one cylinder unless something was ingested and got into that hole, but then you prolly have a bent valve and a hole in the piston! I'm just passing through here - my last Jeep was a WW2 and some 30 years ago, but this IS an inline 6cyl you're discussing here isn't it? They usually have the intake ports grouped - that is, #1 intake is the second valve and #2 intake is the first valve. Look at how the exhaust manifold bolts on - Is there a single "pipe" (I realize it's probably a casting) at each end and all the other connections are wider? If so, it goes E-I-I-E-E-I-I-E-E-I-I-E. Further notes: Do all your checks with the same compression gauge. Don't expect anything you get to correspond with what somebody else gets with their compression gauge or a different engine. You are looking at the relative values on your engine. When discussing this with anybody else, you need to tell them what your "highs" are as well as your "lows." One compression gauge may read 100 where another one might read 120. Also, when you add oil, don't let a lot of time lapse before the comp test. Ideally you would squirt one hole, turn two revolutions, run test; then suirt the next hole, turn two revolutions, run test. Be consistent in how you do it each time. Also make a mental note if one or two take a lot longer to pump up, but get up to a relatively high value. Hope I've helped! William Oliveri <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message news:c05kpf$12n9hs$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de... > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation. > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there). > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder. > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110. > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic > read which was 150 psi. > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's > the head that's the problem and not the rings? > > > Thanks, > > Bill > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca... > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester > > comes.... > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak. > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right? > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all. > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve > > job. My guess still seems right... > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage. > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it? > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap. > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > William Oliveri wrote: > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve > seals > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I > did > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I > took > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I > also > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a > long > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in > the > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the > stem > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The > one > > > to the rear did not. > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had > done > > > on this valve. > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only > a > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the > same > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released > so > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst. > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now. > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2 > leak > > > down is bad. > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good, > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time. > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some > worse > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might > get > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to > option > > > #2. > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it, > bore > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn > around > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months. > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in. > They > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000 > mile > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines. > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile > warranty. > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/ > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines. > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with > RJE > > > or Jasper? > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are > welcome. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bill > > |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
"Busahaulic" <pearson.d@worldnetobvious.att.net> wrote in message news:xbAVb.2519$fV5.79479@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... Also make a mental note if one or > two take a lot longer to pump up, but get up to a relatively high value. > Hope I've helped! What would it mean when one or two take a lot longer to pump up but get to a relatively high value? thanks, Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
"Busahaulic" <pearson.d@worldnetobvious.att.net> wrote in message news:xbAVb.2519$fV5.79479@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... Also make a mental note if one or > two take a lot longer to pump up, but get up to a relatively high value. > Hope I've helped! What would it mean when one or two take a lot longer to pump up but get to a relatively high value? thanks, Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
"Busahaulic" <pearson.d@worldnetobvious.att.net> wrote in message news:xbAVb.2519$fV5.79479@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... Also make a mental note if one or > two take a lot longer to pump up, but get up to a relatively high value. > Hope I've helped! What would it mean when one or two take a lot longer to pump up but get to a relatively high value? thanks, Bill |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
if you end up getting a remanufactured engine go with grooms... i
replaced mine with one of their 4.0's... runs like a champ. everyone i've talked to has had good experiences with them. plus $90 gets you a lifetime warranty. a bit pricey but worth it i think. http://www.groomsengines.com/g-catalog.html#AMC |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
if you end up getting a remanufactured engine go with grooms... i
replaced mine with one of their 4.0's... runs like a champ. everyone i've talked to has had good experiences with them. plus $90 gets you a lifetime warranty. a bit pricey but worth it i think. http://www.groomsengines.com/g-catalog.html#AMC |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
if you end up getting a remanufactured engine go with grooms... i
replaced mine with one of their 4.0's... runs like a champ. everyone i've talked to has had good experiences with them. plus $90 gets you a lifetime warranty. a bit pricey but worth it i think. http://www.groomsengines.com/g-catalog.html#AMC |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Y'know, I almost deleted that part cuz I got to thinking
about it and I guess I really don't know. It could mean that the rings are a little sluggishdue to having gunk all over them (sticky gunk!) Or it could mean that a valve has an area where it doesn't seal well, but if it's a bit loose in the guide, maybe it seals sometimes. Good question - I have no definite answer, but for some reason I always count the revolutions and compare. If you run into that and then end up taking the head off, see if you can identify a possible cause. Maybe somebody else has the right answer? I wonder what the actual compression is in PSI while the engine is running with the pistons doing 100 strokes a second! I used to run single ring pistons with the ring "L" shaped and right at the top of the piston, so the pressure caused the "L" to rock outward and seal even better. Very poor compression at cranking speed but it sealed better than anything else at 12,000rpm (yeah, a small 2-stroke!) William Oliveri <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message news:c06m33$1379k9$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de... > > "Busahaulic" <pearson.d@worldnetobvious.att.net> wrote in message > news:xbAVb.2519$fV5.79479@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net .... > Also make a mental note if one or > > two take a lot longer to pump up, but get up to a relatively high value. > > Hope I've helped! > > > What would it mean when one or two take a lot longer to pump up but get to a > relatively high value? > > thanks, > > Bill > > |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Y'know, I almost deleted that part cuz I got to thinking
about it and I guess I really don't know. It could mean that the rings are a little sluggishdue to having gunk all over them (sticky gunk!) Or it could mean that a valve has an area where it doesn't seal well, but if it's a bit loose in the guide, maybe it seals sometimes. Good question - I have no definite answer, but for some reason I always count the revolutions and compare. If you run into that and then end up taking the head off, see if you can identify a possible cause. Maybe somebody else has the right answer? I wonder what the actual compression is in PSI while the engine is running with the pistons doing 100 strokes a second! I used to run single ring pistons with the ring "L" shaped and right at the top of the piston, so the pressure caused the "L" to rock outward and seal even better. Very poor compression at cranking speed but it sealed better than anything else at 12,000rpm (yeah, a small 2-stroke!) William Oliveri <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message news:c06m33$1379k9$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de... > > "Busahaulic" <pearson.d@worldnetobvious.att.net> wrote in message > news:xbAVb.2519$fV5.79479@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net .... > Also make a mental note if one or > > two take a lot longer to pump up, but get up to a relatively high value. > > Hope I've helped! > > > What would it mean when one or two take a lot longer to pump up but get to a > relatively high value? > > thanks, > > Bill > > |
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Y'know, I almost deleted that part cuz I got to thinking
about it and I guess I really don't know. It could mean that the rings are a little sluggishdue to having gunk all over them (sticky gunk!) Or it could mean that a valve has an area where it doesn't seal well, but if it's a bit loose in the guide, maybe it seals sometimes. Good question - I have no definite answer, but for some reason I always count the revolutions and compare. If you run into that and then end up taking the head off, see if you can identify a possible cause. Maybe somebody else has the right answer? I wonder what the actual compression is in PSI while the engine is running with the pistons doing 100 strokes a second! I used to run single ring pistons with the ring "L" shaped and right at the top of the piston, so the pressure caused the "L" to rock outward and seal even better. Very poor compression at cranking speed but it sealed better than anything else at 12,000rpm (yeah, a small 2-stroke!) William Oliveri <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message news:c06m33$1379k9$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de... > > "Busahaulic" <pearson.d@worldnetobvious.att.net> wrote in message > news:xbAVb.2519$fV5.79479@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net .... > Also make a mental note if one or > > two take a lot longer to pump up, but get up to a relatively high value. > > Hope I've helped! > > > What would it mean when one or two take a lot longer to pump up but get to a > relatively high value? > > thanks, > > Bill > > |
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