Re: Devil's advocate with the KJ
 

Let me preface this by saying a purchased a KJ "Sport" last May. Using a
scale of 1 to 10, with "1" being a washboarded/potholed dirt road, and a
"10" going up a trackless rock climb (like out in Moab), I wouldn't take it
on more than a "5". This was a "road" going up at 40 degrees, lots of
rocks, etc. It did very nice in 4wheel low. I would have liked to have a
tad more clearance, oh well. I did not experience any problems with the
IFS, if anything, it seemed to give a slightly smoother ride.

It comes down to what the vehicle's purpose is. I can't afford to keep
something for weekends only, I have to use the same vehicle for my everyday
life. The KJ provides a nice compromise. If I want to do something beyond
its bounds, I'll go out with my friend in his CJ.

Incidentally, according to my dealer, the 2005 Grand Cherokees are also
being redesigned along the same lines as the KJ. He also said that they're
going to go to IFS. Gonna be "interesting" (grin).

Regards,

Bruce


"Monte Castleman" <qmdcastle@skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:vnbduj1oscng49@corp.supernews.com...
> I know a lot of traditional jeep owners are undewhelmed by the Liberty,
> so I thought I'd ask a few questions. Keep in mind these are only for
> discussion: A KJ would not suit my needs so I'll never buy one. I'm
> keeping my XJ for a long time, then I might look at a newer one or else
> a grand.
>
> 1. Why is a Liberty considered "less a Jeep" than a Grand Cherokee? At
> least a Liberty has distinctive styling, and last time I checked the
> Jeep Jamboree people thought a KJ was capable on the trail.
>
> 2. How many KJs were sold in their first year compared to XJs in their
> last year? I seem to notice more KJs than late model XJs on the road.
>
> 3. Isn't the market for basic mid-sized SUVs slowly declining in favor
> of "blown up cars" like the KJ, Ford Escape, Honda CRV, and full sized
> soccer mom vehicles like the Suburban and Expedition?
>
> 4. If you took an XJ and outfitted it with the types of ride
> qualtiy and creature comfort things most buyers expect now, wouldn't you
> pretty much have a Grand that was just a bit shorter?
> --
> -
> Monte Castleman, <<Spamfilter in Use>>
> Bloomington, MN to email, remove the "q" from my address
>
>

Re: Devil's advocate with the KJ
 

"Monte Castleman" <qmdcastle@skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:vnbduj1oscng49@corp.supernews.com...
> I know a lot of traditional jeep owners are undewhelmed by the Liberty,
> so I thought I'd ask a few questions. Keep in mind these are only for
> discussion: A KJ would not suit my needs so I'll never buy one. I'm
> keeping my XJ for a long time, then I might look at a newer one or else
> a grand.
>
> 1. Why is a Liberty considered "less a Jeep" than a Grand Cherokee? At
> least a Liberty has distinctive styling, and last time I checked the
> Jeep Jamboree people thought a KJ was capable on the trail.
>
It isn't ";ess a Jeep" so much as it is a lesser Jeep. The independent front
suspension is a large part of the problem. Basically, the rule of thumb is
anything that improves road worthiness will detract from trail worthiness.


> 2. How many KJs were sold in their first year compared to XJs in their
> last year? I seem to notice more KJs than late model XJs on the road.
>
Really? I hardly ever see them.


> 3. Isn't the market for basic mid-sized SUVs slowly declining in favor
> of "blown up cars" like the KJ, Ford Escape, Honda CRV, and full sized
> soccer mom vehicles like the Suburban and Expedition?
>
No. This is a myth. There is a market for this size, and it is growing
mostlly because it is a new size in the class. The other sizes on the class
have probably attracted its customer base already, so it is a mature market.


> 4. If you took an XJ and outfitted it with the types of ride
> qualtiy and creature comfort things most buyers expect now, wouldn't you
> pretty much have a Grand that was just a bit shorter?

Just a bit shorter? I don't know about you, but from where I sit, it is a
tad bit more that a bit shorter.


The KJ ought not attract anybody that is interested in any kind of serious
offroad travel, the ZJ and WJ are excellent offraod performers, albeit a
rather expensive option if one wants an offraoder. The KJ is an excellent
choice for the frequent freeway flyers and occasional offroaders, but it is
worthless for the frequent offroader and occasional freeway flyer.

Re: Devil's advocate with the KJ
 

"Monte Castleman" <qmdcastle@skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:vnbduj1oscng49@corp.supernews.com...
> I know a lot of traditional jeep owners are undewhelmed by the Liberty,
> so I thought I'd ask a few questions. Keep in mind these are only for
> discussion: A KJ would not suit my needs so I'll never buy one. I'm
> keeping my XJ for a long time, then I might look at a newer one or else
> a grand.
>
> 1. Why is a Liberty considered "less a Jeep" than a Grand Cherokee? At
> least a Liberty has distinctive styling, and last time I checked the
> Jeep Jamboree people thought a KJ was capable on the trail.
>
It isn't ";ess a Jeep" so much as it is a lesser Jeep. The independent front
suspension is a large part of the problem. Basically, the rule of thumb is
anything that improves road worthiness will detract from trail worthiness.


> 2. How many KJs were sold in their first year compared to XJs in their
> last year? I seem to notice more KJs than late model XJs on the road.
>
Really? I hardly ever see them.


> 3. Isn't the market for basic mid-sized SUVs slowly declining in favor
> of "blown up cars" like the KJ, Ford Escape, Honda CRV, and full sized
> soccer mom vehicles like the Suburban and Expedition?
>
No. This is a myth. There is a market for this size, and it is growing
mostlly because it is a new size in the class. The other sizes on the class
have probably attracted its customer base already, so it is a mature market.


> 4. If you took an XJ and outfitted it with the types of ride
> qualtiy and creature comfort things most buyers expect now, wouldn't you
> pretty much have a Grand that was just a bit shorter?

Just a bit shorter? I don't know about you, but from where I sit, it is a
tad bit more that a bit shorter.


The KJ ought not attract anybody that is interested in any kind of serious
offroad travel, the ZJ and WJ are excellent offraod performers, albeit a
rather expensive option if one wants an offraoder. The KJ is an excellent
choice for the frequent freeway flyers and occasional offroaders, but it is
worthless for the frequent offroader and occasional freeway flyer.

Re: Devil's advocate with the KJ
 

> 1. Why is a Liberty considered "less a Jeep" than a Grand Cherokee? At
> least a Liberty has distinctive styling, and last time I checked the
> Jeep Jamboree people thought a KJ was capable on the trail.


Salesmen/company reps are always completely knowledgeable and never lie, of course.

>
> 2. How many KJs were sold in their first year compared to XJs in their
> last year? I seem to notice more KJs than late model XJs on the road.
>

Who cares? What does this have to do with off-road worthiness?

> 3. Isn't the market for basic mid-sized SUVs slowly declining in favor
> of "blown up cars" like the KJ, Ford Escape, Honda CRV, and full sized
> soccer mom vehicles like the Suburban and Expedition?

See response to previous question.

>
> 4. If you took an XJ and outfitted it with the types of ride
> qualtiy and creature comfort things most buyers expect now, wouldn't you
> pretty much have a Grand that was just a bit shorter?

No.

Re: Devil's advocate with the KJ
 

> 1. Why is a Liberty considered "less a Jeep" than a Grand Cherokee? At
> least a Liberty has distinctive styling, and last time I checked the
> Jeep Jamboree people thought a KJ was capable on the trail.


Salesmen/company reps are always completely knowledgeable and never lie, of course.

>
> 2. How many KJs were sold in their first year compared to XJs in their
> last year? I seem to notice more KJs than late model XJs on the road.
>

Who cares? What does this have to do with off-road worthiness?

> 3. Isn't the market for basic mid-sized SUVs slowly declining in favor
> of "blown up cars" like the KJ, Ford Escape, Honda CRV, and full sized
> soccer mom vehicles like the Suburban and Expedition?

See response to previous question.

>
> 4. If you took an XJ and outfitted it with the types of ride
> qualtiy and creature comfort things most buyers expect now, wouldn't you
> pretty much have a Grand that was just a bit shorter?

No.

Re: Devil's advocate with the KJ
 

the germans have no clue so they dumped the xj! now for the wj
it's going bye bye and will look exactly like a liberty but longer and wider

i seen one up close and personal that i was not suppose to see, so i bet
that old pulling power of the grand is now gone too! i bet they turn the tj
into a susuki type offroader next

Monte Castleman wrote:

> I know a lot of traditional jeep owners are undewhelmed by the Liberty,
> so I thought I'd ask a few questions. Keep in mind these are only for
> discussion: A KJ would not suit my needs so I'll never buy one. I'm
> keeping my XJ for a long time, then I might look at a newer one or else
> a grand.
>
> 1. Why is a Liberty considered "less a Jeep" than a Grand Cherokee? At
> least a Liberty has distinctive styling, and last time I checked the
> Jeep Jamboree people thought a KJ was capable on the trail.
>
> 2. How many KJs were sold in their first year compared to XJs in their
> last year? I seem to notice more KJs than late model XJs on the road.
>
> 3. Isn't the market for basic mid-sized SUVs slowly declining in favor
> of "blown up cars" like the KJ, Ford Escape, Honda CRV, and full sized
> soccer mom vehicles like the Suburban and Expedition?
>
> 4. If you took an XJ and outfitted it with the types of ride
> qualtiy and creature comfort things most buyers expect now, wouldn't you
> pretty much have a Grand that was just a bit shorter?
> --
> -
> Monte Castleman, <<Spamfilter in Use>>
> Bloomington, MN to email, remove the "q" from my address

Re: Devil's advocate with the KJ
 

the germans have no clue so they dumped the xj! now for the wj
it's going bye bye and will look exactly like a liberty but longer and wider

i seen one up close and personal that i was not suppose to see, so i bet
that old pulling power of the grand is now gone too! i bet they turn the tj
into a susuki type offroader next

Monte Castleman wrote:

> I know a lot of traditional jeep owners are undewhelmed by the Liberty,
> so I thought I'd ask a few questions. Keep in mind these are only for
> discussion: A KJ would not suit my needs so I'll never buy one. I'm
> keeping my XJ for a long time, then I might look at a newer one or else
> a grand.
>
> 1. Why is a Liberty considered "less a Jeep" than a Grand Cherokee? At
> least a Liberty has distinctive styling, and last time I checked the
> Jeep Jamboree people thought a KJ was capable on the trail.
>
> 2. How many KJs were sold in their first year compared to XJs in their
> last year? I seem to notice more KJs than late model XJs on the road.
>
> 3. Isn't the market for basic mid-sized SUVs slowly declining in favor
> of "blown up cars" like the KJ, Ford Escape, Honda CRV, and full sized
> soccer mom vehicles like the Suburban and Expedition?
>
> 4. If you took an XJ and outfitted it with the types of ride
> qualtiy and creature comfort things most buyers expect now, wouldn't you
> pretty much have a Grand that was just a bit shorter?
> --
> -
> Monte Castleman, <<Spamfilter in Use>>
> Bloomington, MN to email, remove the "q" from my address